[ANN][AUTO-SWITCH] Profit-switch auto-exchange pool: CleverMining.com

[tagore]

5-10% is acceptable in a coin switching pool.  On a super fast coin, rejects can be upwards of 20%.  Terk has figured that all into his algorithm.

  What I dont understand is why I have 1.5% rejects on wafflepool and here I have 10%  with exactly same configuration.   I just wait for the EU server to see if something changes.

[nowaltcoin]

different coins ? faster switching ? different algorithm?



I think Terk mentioned it before:

Mining on a coin with 200% to LTC with 20% rejects is better (gives you 160% to LTC (and a bad feeling with your reject rate))
as mining a coin with 150% to LTC with only 5% rejects  (gives you 142,5% to LTC (and a good feeling with your reject rate))

What do you prefer ?

[tagore]

different coins ? faster switching ? different algorithm?



I think Terk mentioned it before:

Mining on a coin with 200% to LTC with 20% rejects is better (gives you 160% to LTC (and a bad feeling with your reject rate))
as mining a coin with 150% to LTC with only 5% rejects  (gives you 142,5% to LTC (and a good feeling with your reject rate))

What do you prefer ?

  I preffer more profit of course.  My point is I'm new on mining, I started some weeks ago. I've spend some money with 3 GPU and I try to find a good server that gives me the maximum profit. I've tried many. Now i'm between wafflepool  and here, on both web pages you can see the daily profit BTC / 1MH,   I assume those numbers are with 0% rejects.   So if for example here I see 10% more proffit than other pool, but here I have 10% more rejects, then I assume both are same profit, right?

[ratty]

Rejects can be caused by coins with faster times, such as if you were mining a coin with 30 second blocktimes, you would get a lot more rejects than a coin with 60 second target time. Its not always because of latency or slow servers at a pool.

[VaporX]

My point was, all other things being equal (ie BTC per MH/s per day elsewhere being marginally HIGHER than CleverMining although statistical data has not been collected for sufficient duration to list this as a definite factor yet) the reject rate at CleverMining is 5-10% ABOVE any other pool tested (whether multipool or "traditional" mining).  That is 5-10% MORE than other multipool mining pools.  So yes 5-10% may be acceptable for Multipool however whatever the reject rate may be, my expereince is that CleverMining I get a baseline reject rate (as one would expect with any pool)  PLUS an additional 5-10%. With everything else being equal (ie BTC per MH/s per day), if there is a choice between 5-10% and 1% reject rate, which is the better choice?  Not an overly difficult decision.

Note that config in all cases is identical apart from the pool URL.  The only difference is the decreased clockspeed on CleverMining to lower reject rate.  Without this speed reduction the reject rate of a reject rate of 5-10% could be doubled, peaking to treble these values.  Once again NOTE  these changes have not been necessary anywhere else.  I am not trying to do anything with my cards on CleverMining than has worked at all the other pools.  So I can tweak and tune and have specific settings and I have done so experimentally with the 5-10% being the best achieved.  Alternatively I can take the same earnings rate, keep the 0.5Mh I can lose in rejects and using the exact same config I started with (prior to CleverMining tweaks), go to any of the other multipools or traditional pools.

If you look at the way the pool sizes at MiddleCoin, CleverMining and Wafflepool have shifted during the past month you`ll see that something is causing people not to move to CleverMining. Terk is undoubtedly doing a stellar job and having spoken to him a couple of times he is an agreeable fellow especially considering the stress he is under.  However the fact remains .. people can micro-manage their configs and optimise specifically for ClerverMining but why would they bother when they can simply go elsewhere, achieve the same results and not have to bother with this performance tuning?  Alot of people use Multipools as a "fire and forget" solution because they no longer wish to continually monitor pools, markets, prices etc nor do they wish to be perpetually tweaking their rigs to suit the characteristics of individual pools/currencies.  Instead they pick a multipool which allows use of a standard config, with no need for further effort required.  In this fashion they can draw a decent earnings rate from their hashpower.  Excellent, job well done, except .. to get the best out of CleverMining at the moment additional tweaking and tuning does seem to be necessary.

[nowaltcoin]

This is decribing the situation exactly

https://ip.bitcointalk.org/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FgjfOw3x.gif&t=537&c=9J2lTtRqOrItAw



You can decide which way you want to go.......

Check middlecoin/clevermining/whatelse one week and decide.........or just swinging arround

I have mining single coins, trying middlecoin this and that (during the time building my rigs)

I'am now here, and i will stay even with 10% rejects because
it is not the earnings/Mh at all it is also the service/information/response you will get from the pool-owner!

Just do not forget to put one or two fail-over-pools in your config-file (ex: a doge/feather/litecon-pool or even a second multi-pool)
otherwise there  maybee more income-lost (during a non connected night) as the reject-rate 

[cuesta]

CleverMining has definitely reduced rejects considerably but I still find it a major issue.  I have to dial back clockspeed on my cards (lowering my hash a little) and even then I routinely average 5 - 10%.  This is not something I`ve ever experienced mining elsewhere, whether mining currency or in another multipool.  I have just switched from CleverMining to another multipool to get some stats to make a decent compqarison, however for the moment I can`t make a decent comparison other than to say the earnings rates appear similar with the edge going to the new pool.

<snip>

One HUGE PLUS for CleverMining which is worthy of mention is how accessible and approchable CleverMining is.  In the form of Terk, CleverMining has an easily accessible, eminently approachable internet presence providing updates and feedback on a daily basis.  Terk is regularly visible and responsive on IRC and often deals with potentially awkward questions with great tact and diplomacy.  For this he should be congratulated wholeheartedly.  Other pools would do well to note this critical facet of the operation and duplicate it.

Anyway to sum up, whilst rejects is not the be all and end all of mining and earnings is the critical measure of success, where earnings are measured in BTC per Mh/s per day, to lost a constant portion of that Mh/s per day is factor people are rightly considering.  Of course individual mileage may vary and as always it is down to the individual to make their own decisions.  However I just wanted to add my perspective to the mix.

Can I follow up on this with a query to the experts ??

Am I correct in thinking that CleverMining on the BTC/Mh/Day measure uses the *accepted*, rather than the total submitted shares to give the specific profit number? If that is the case, then comparing this measure on something like poolpicker is going to artificially inflate the "profitability" of the this pool over others, since the reject rate is noticeably (but understandably) higher at CleverMining, we should really be comparing on a pure miner hash rate measure (assuming a given rig). Fundamentally, profit is how much BTC you get for how much hash you throw out for a given mining setup to a given pool. Rejects come from poor miner setup (nothing to do with the pool) and the coin being mined (nothing to do with the pool either). BUT rejects are still important if >few percent and if the reject level differs between pools then pool to pool comparisons on money/accepted is not the full picture.

I am running / have run on Middlecoin, HashCows, wafflePool in the past, and enough to worry about profitability. Want to try CleverMining once the eu server arrives (my ping is a bit to high (plus the reject issue) to make me leave bleed off some rigs from WafflePool at the mo)

WafflePool have a super low reject level, and a solid eu server, but they mine bigger coins, but the OP suggests changes to hit sub 20 diff coins, so hanging in there for now. CleverMining *seem* to have the really smart coinswitcher/trader and report a good BTC/Mh/day BUT is it really measurably better (10% say) than any other auto-trading pool for X Mh/s of hash resource

My gut feeling is there isn't that much in it at the end of the day (its all factored in etc..), and mostly we are just better off having worthy competitors to middlecoin and have operators that are technically smart people, put the hours in, stay in touch, and make mining a collaborative activity rather than a bitch-fest. Thank god for that.

Thoughts anybody ?

[pengoau]

Damn hope Terk doesn't throw the towel in with the ddos attack delaying the new servers. He gets ahead of one, only to work on another and then the DDOs hits.

He has a lot of patience.

[nowaltcoin]

----------------------------------schnipp-------------------   not from me and a finetuned copy------------

Since this is a question I get asked all the time - I'm making this sticky post.

The hashrate that your miner program shows is your card hashrate - which is actual hashes per second.

The hashrate that the server shows is your 'effective' hashrate, which is based on the number of submitted shares.    Since your miner only submits work if it exceeds a certain difficulty level, the server only knows about that particular percentage of hashes you have mined.


One thing you should know, is that you really shouldn't be tuning your settings for the best hashrate.  Because the pool doesn't pay based on hashrate.   The pool pays by submitted shares, so submitted shares is what you need to maximize.

Sometimes the settings you use to achieve maximum  share rate will show a lesser actual hashrate. (on cgminer share rate is indicated by the column with the "WU: ")

So when you are tuning your settings, don't even look at the hashrate at all, just look at the submitted share rate.   Run the miner for 10 minutes, mark down what your WU rate is, then change a setting and do it again until you find sweet spot that maximizes your submitted shares

---------------------schnapp----------------------


--------------------------schnipp-------- not from me and exact copy-------------------

so what is better keeping khashes higher or keeping WU higher?

on 1070 my cards give 745kh (5 cards) but 2800-2900 total WU

and if i downclock to 1040 it gives 720kh but 3450-3500wu

(10 min run first and second)

what is better?

The WU because that is the final thing the pools see. That is the shares your submitting. Higher amount of shares = more of a chunk of the block you will get.

For a test to see if I say is true, get on one of those pools that has the worker info refreshed regularly. You will see that the numbers usually reported are equal to your WU rate and not your hash rate.

Also, over time your WU will go down to become a steady output without much change up and down. Usually I let it run a few hours to see where it settles and then tweek when needed.
-------------------------------------------schnapp-------------------

so keep im mind :

The hashrate you will see at the pool is not the hashrate you see at your miner (cgminer) it will be the WU-rate:

example: my miners show a combined hash-rate of : 2.71 Mh/s but the pool only shows 2.5 Mh/s (over all the time)
This 2.5Mh/s are exactly  my combined WU-rates: (here 2.564 MH/s)

From this rate i have to submit the reject- and stale-rate.....do get my payable hashrate...........

The optimum would be your WU-Rate is 95% of your hashrate and Reject and stale-rate = 0%



Sorry for the long post

[Munashiimaru]

Hi, I'm new here.

I've been mining from the pool for about five days, and I've been above .01 payable for a couple of days.  I'm at .023 payable now (I only run ~800 KH/s to give you an idea of time it'd take to get that high).  I haven't had a payout on the account though.  Wondering if somethings going on? I doubled checked my address and it's correct.

[_r2h]

With everything else being equal (ie BTC per MH/s per day), if there is a choice between 5-10% and 1% reject rate, which is the better choice?

Not a difficult answer.  Has been answer in this thread and many other threads before it.  The MC has ~500 pages of information, a lot of it based around the question you asked.

If high rejects make you feel bad, then move along to another pool that has lower rejects.  I personally don't care if I have 99.999999% rejects as long as I am making more than I would at another pool.

[xojex]

I see good numbers with queue "1", expiry "30" and scan-time "15". Much better WUE and less rejected percentage with this setting. 

If I change to queue "0"; WUE drops, rejects go up and the miner becomes unstable.

[evansearle42]

asia server please..

[martynw2000]

asia server please..

From post 1...

All technical problems has been solved!
Rejected ratio is back low again.
You are very welcomed to come back mining with us again!
See this post for details
We're now focused on launching EU and Asia servers.

[Mr_Jumper]

On rejection complaints:

Most, if not all of rejection complaints are coming from people with little to no experience in mining.  Hashing Xmh/s doesn't make you experts at mining, it just mean you have much $$ to throw around.

What you all fail to understand is that mining has MANY variables and you can't just implement 1 setting to all pools.  Here @ CM, fast coins are mined as SAID MANY TIMES BEFORE.  That means you need to make adjustments in your config file to make it suitable. It's NOT ONE SIZE FITS ALL.

Here's my suggestion: Read up and understand how mining works.  Yes, that means study it.  In this instant gratification world, I know it's something hard to do, but that's what it takes.  Otherwise your rejection will continue to be high.  Guess what?  It's your own damn fault.  Many good suggestion were posted in this thread, but obviously you all are too lazy to look it up OR understand how it works.

Since the fix implementation of about week ago, Terk has done what he could to bring rejections down.  I have less than 5% rejection running for good week now.  Experienced miners already made the changes and are doing just fine.  Newbs are ones that can't grasp this concept.


On server complaints:

Have patience.  

Have a nice day.

[ryancpwalsh]

On rejection complaints:

Most, if not all of rejection complaints are coming from people with little to no experience in mining.  Hashing Xmh/s doesn't make you experts at mining, it just mean you have much $$ to throw around.

What you all fail to understand is that mining has MANY variables and you can't just implement 1 setting to all pools.  Here @ CM, fast coins are mined as SAID MANY TIMES BEFORE.  That means you need to make adjustments in your config file to make it suitable. It's NOT ONE SIZE FITS ALL.

Here's my suggestion: Read up and understand how mining works.  Yes, that means study it.  In this instant gratification world, I know it's something hard to do, but that's what it takes.  Otherwise your rejection will continue to be high.  Guess what?  It's your own damn fault.  Many good suggestion were posted in this thread, but obviously you all are too lazy to look it up OR understand how it works.

Since the fix implementation of about week ago, Terk has done what he could to bring rejections down.  I have less than 5% rejection running for good week now.  Experienced miners already made the changes and are doing just fine.  Newbs are ones that can't grasp this concept.


On server complaints:

Have patience.  

Have a nice day.

I've seen this response almost every time someone asks about rejects.  It's basically "blah blah blah, you need to learn about mining and making changes to your config, but I'm not going to provide you with any other information it's secret to me you're too new blah blah blah".

It's getting tiring.  A few people have suggested adjustments to queue length, scan time and expiry time - and others explained why increasing or decreasing would have an impact on multipool vs. standard coin (this was great advice).

What other advice can we share to tweak our configs?  (instead of hoarding it).

[pengoau]

READ, READ, READ..



https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=448649.msg5422472#msg5422472
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=448649.msg5424508#msg5424508

Some help and settings for you to try. If trying the aforementioned doesn't help and you've let the miner run for 2hrs+ (lets reject rate and wu stabilise) then post, but make sure you state what you have tried. It doesn't help that people posting have little or no post activity and then expect help.

For what its worth I'm sitting on 3% rejects (rejects+stales) with my most recent settings and a WU of 665 shares/min. This is what I am sitting on after 18hrs of mining.

I'm in Australia with just an adsl2+ connection (not great but ok).

[SanderHelgesen16]

0.013btc/day per MH/s

[_r2h]

On rejection complaints:

Most, if not all of rejection complaints are coming from people with little to no experience in mining.  Hashing Xmh/s doesn't make you experts at mining, it just mean you have much $$ to throw around.

What you all fail to understand is that mining has MANY variables and you can't just implement 1 setting to all pools.  Here @ CM, fast coins are mined as SAID MANY TIMES BEFORE.  That means you need to make adjustments in your config file to make it suitable. It's NOT ONE SIZE FITS ALL.

Here's my suggestion: Read up and understand how mining works.  Yes, that means study it.  In this instant gratification world, I know it's something hard to do, but that's what it takes.  Otherwise your rejection will continue to be high.  Guess what?  It's your own damn fault.  Many good suggestion were posted in this thread, but obviously you all are too lazy to look it up OR understand how it works.

Since the fix implementation of about week ago, Terk has done what he could to bring rejections down.  I have less than 5% rejection running for good week now.  Experienced miners already made the changes and are doing just fine.  Newbs are ones that can't grasp this concept.


On server complaints:

Have patience.  

Have a nice day.

I've seen this response almost every time someone asks about rejects.  It's basically "blah blah blah, you need to learn about mining and making changes to your config, but I'm not going to provide you with any other information it's secret to me you're too new blah blah blah".

It's getting tiring.  A few people have suggested adjustments to queue length, scan time and expiry time - and others explained why increasing or decreasing would have an impact on multipool vs. standard coin (this was great advice).

What other advice can we share to tweak our configs?  (instead of hoarding it).

Getting asked about rejects over and over and over and over and over and over.  Repeatedly.  In different threads even.  THAT shit is getting old, and why you see old timers getting butthurt.  ALL the information you want to know, could know, would ever NEED to know is contained in these forums.  Search them.

[tagore]

For what its worth I'm sitting on 3% rejects (rejects+stales) with my most recent settings and a WU of 665 shares/min. This is what I am sitting on after 18hrs of mining.

I'm in Australia with just an adsl2+ connection (not great but ok).

   What ping do you have?