Why is the Occupy movement not immediately embracing bitcoin?

[bytedisorder]

Because they don't want Liberty and true Freedom at all. They are just a gaggle of collectivists looking for a red nickel, and only willing to pay a red cent. They whine and complain about the mega-banks meanwhile, most of them voted for mr. goldman (OBAMA) sachs (at least here in the US). They don't want to lift a finger they want the nanny state to wipe their behinds and dress them. Then they have the audacity to ask the upper middle class to give up what little remains of their bourgeoisie lifestyle. Whilst the ultra-rich benefit from the welfare schemes they demand.

Bitcoin doesn't fit Occupy.

Occupy doesn't fit Bitcoin.

All Occupy is likely to embrace is EBT cards that look like Visa cards and free services on their children's debt dime.

Pardon my rant.

[firefop]

Wait, There's still an 'occupy movement' 

I thought that was dead & debunked.

[anu]

Problem is society itself.

And we should get rid of pesky problems...

[kokojie]

Because they don't want Liberty and true Freedom at all. They are just a gaggle of collectivists looking for a red nickel, and only willing to pay a red cent. They whine and complain about the mega-banks meanwhile, most of them voted for mr. goldman (OBAMA) sachs (at least here in the US). They don't want to lift a finger they want the nanny state to wipe their behinds and dress them. Then they have the audacity to ask the upper middle class to give up what little remains of their bourgeoisie lifestyle. Whilst the ultra-rich benefit from the welfare schemes they demand.

Bitcoin doesn't fit Occupy.

Occupy doesn't fit Bitcoin.

All Occupy is likely to embrace is EBT cards that look like Visa cards and free services on their children's debt dime.

Pardon my rant.

Damn, you hit the nail on the head, this is exactly what's happening.

[Desolator]

because bitcoins aren't accepted at Starbucks or Whole Foods and they can't use them on their iphone as an app.  Also, hippies don't have any money.

[cbeast]

Fear is the only real currency. Money is a reminder that there are weapons pointed at you.

[anu]

We should try as hard as we can to become independent of others. Each of us alone suck but we suck much less than if we are in group.

Man, you really mean it. To improve your situation, you should consider getting rid of yourself, since then you no longer suck

[Explodicle]

Ooh, zombie thread Last I checked the occupy movement had it's own cryptocoin similar to bitcoin but with characteristics more like scrip. I'll put on my tinfoil hat and guess that was a malicious creation to put in a division between the occupy movement's followers and bitcoin. Scrip makes more sense from their point of view but supporting bitcoin is more likely to achieve the greater part of their objectives than trying to get their own currency off the ground.

Occcu is a joke, but they're still working on Freicoin. I'll be happy when Freicoin starts trading for Bitcoin, if nothing else so the following conversation can take place:

Me: "Bitcoin is everything you want but it deflates and is decentralized."
Occupant: "Pure deflation = no deal! We want some board to vote on how to spend our money."
Me: "Ok, then use Freicoin."
(Months pass...)
Occupant: "Now I understand the technicalities of cryptocurrency, and have diversified into at least some Bitcoin."

IMHO it will be much easier to cooperate than to be combative. What matters is that we give people free choices, and if we're right they'll come around gradually.

[Dalkore]

Occupy is not a movement based of two reasons.   Once these are settled, then you may have a movement.   


1.  Leadership (no leadership, no direction, no way to gather real influence)

2.  No single message with simple goals


I know people will debate this our outright disagree.   This time is not different.  People need to see progress and you can't have 600 different messages.

[markm]

Is this thread truly trying to assert that Occupy Movement people will not embrace basically as many whole bitcoin as you are willing to hand over to them free for them to use?

I had thought that something as simple as giving them a few million to do with as they choose would have been welcomed by them.

But maybe instead you have been taking much the same tack as the bankers they are protesting: "having a medium of exchange is a privilege not a right, if you want to conduct split-barter transactions you must buy from us a medium in which to conduct the splitting of your barter"...

-MarkM-

[kiba]

Occupy protestors are really a bunch of spineless idiots who don't balls to invent and use a new currency like Bitcoin.

[Desolator]

Hey look!  I found a picture of every occupy douche-tester ever.

[firefop]

Is this thread truly trying to assert that Occupy Movement people will not embrace basically as many whole bitcoin as you are willing to hand over to them free for them to use?

I had thought that something as simple as giving them a few million to do with as they choose would have been welcomed by them.

But maybe instead you have been taking much the same tack as the bankers they are protesting: "having a medium of exchange is a priviege not a right, if you want to conduct split-barter transactions you must buy from us a medium in which to conduct the splitting of your barter"...

-MarkM-

Not at all - I'm sure anyone would take almost anything given for free.

What we're asserting is that "the Occupy Movement" (your caps not mine) isn't a movement, isn't in any way constructive and has no hope of achieving anything other than what they've already done (which is simply to provide comic relief, humiliate themselves and annoy anyone who isn't a moron.

[Rockefoten]

Based on this thread, my guess would be that the Occupy movement isn't interested in Bitcoin because bitcoiners seem to be more interested in bashing the Occupy movement rather than highlighting Bitcoin's features that most likely would appell to them.

Off the top of my head, I would focus on these two features:
- Removing the power of the big banks/financial industry.
- WikiLeaks (overcoming funding restrictions for WikiLeaks and organizations that are banned from the payment industry. If you're feeling especially cheerful, mention how outlawed socialist revolutionary movements all over the world could potentially benefit from this. 

I'm certain that there could be more than these to.

Generally, I would say that if all of BItcoin's features would only appeal to libertarians, and nobody else, I'm certain Bitcoin is doomed to forever stay the marginal phenomenon it is today.

[ArticMine]

Ooh, zombie thread Last I checked the occupy movement had it's own cryptocoin similar to bitcoin but with characteristics more like scrip. I'll put on my tinfoil hat and guess that was a malicious creation to put in a division between the occupy movement's followers and bitcoin. Scrip makes more sense from their point of view but supporting bitcoin is more likely to achieve the greater part of their objectives than trying to get their own currency off the ground.

Occcu is a joke, but they're still working on Freicoin. I'll be happy when Freicoin starts trading for Bitcoin, if nothing else so the following conversation can take place:

Me: "Bitcoin is everything you want but it deflates and is decentralized."
Occupant: "Pure deflation = no deal! We want some board to vote on how to spend our money."
Me: "Ok, then use Freicoin."
(Months pass...)
Occupant: "Now I understand the technicalities of cryptocurrency, and have diversified into at least some Bitcoin."

IMHO it will be much easier to cooperate than to be combative. What matters is that we give people free choices, and if we're right they'll come around gradually.

Freicoin has to be among the worst concepts in a currency ever conceived. Why? Because it does the exact opposite of what it tries to do. If I were to create a currency to benefit the wealthiest 0.001% of the population at the expense of the poor then demurrage is the way to go. To understand this one simply needs to consider that the typical billionaire may actually have less physical cash than the typical occupy protester. Billionaires can easily avoid the cost of demurrage or inflation for that matter by "putting their money to work" but the poor cannot because of the fees involved with "putting their money to work" relative to the small amounts they have.

[tvbcof]

Based on this thread, my guess would be that the Occupy movement isn't interested in Bitcoin because bitcoiners seem to be more interested in bashing the Occupy movement rather than highlighting Bitcoin's features that most likely would appell to them.

Off the top of my head, I would focus on these two features:
- Removing the power of the big banks/financial industry.
- WikiLeaks (overcoming funding restrictions for WikiLeaks and organizations that are banned from the payment industry. If you're feeling especially cheerful, mention how outlawed socialist revolutionary movements all over the world could potentially benefit from this. 

I'm certain that there could be more than these to.

Generally, I would say that if all of BItcoin's features would only appeal to libertarians, and nobody else, I'm certain Bitcoin is doomed to forever stay the marginal phenomenon it is today.

As a pretty left-wing socialist type as well as a Bitcoin enthusiast, I would have to say that it's not the 'features' of Bitcoin that I consider 'libertarian', but more that the solution is most actively embraced by that group.  As I understand things, the philosophy is generally that it is OK to leverage any power that one can muster for personal benefit because the 'free market' will sort things out.  Eventually.  My observation of the economy which has grown up around Bitcoin does very little to disabuse me of my understanding of the philosophy, and needless to say I consider the philosophy to be objectionable and generally a fail.  Thus, to the extent that Bitcoin is considered 'libertarian', it certainly has some negative connotations to me and probably others of my general orientation.

Framed differently, I have about equal interest in having 'Joe Sixpack' be raped by 'banks/financial industry' as by any other group or exploitative individuals.  As long as Bitcoin facilitates this (in the real world vs. in some theoretical landscape) it is not especially much of a step forward.  But it does have potential at least if developments proceed in healthy directions.

[Explodicle]

Freicoin has to be among the worst concepts in a currency ever conceived. Why? Because it does the exact opposite of what it tries to do. If I were to create a currency to benefit the wealthiest 0.001% of the population at the expense of the poor then demurrage is the way to go. To understand this one simply needs to consider that the typical billionaire may actually have less physical cash than the typical occupy protester. Billionaires can easily avoid the cost of demurrage or inflation for that matter by "putting their money to work" but the poor cannot because of the fees involved with "putting their money to work" relative to the small amounts they have.

That's not exactly what Freicoin intends to do. Their goal is for Bitcoin to remain the long-term store of value, while Freicoin becomes the high-velocity everyday currency. Even poor people could exchange effortlessly back and forth because they're both cryptocurrencies.

"Why would I ever use Freicoin, then?" everyone asks. The theory is that loans would be easier to get in Freicoin because of its interest rate. I'm personally not 100% convinced that these loans are desirable, so the Freicoin forum would probably be more inclined than I to debate its economics. I say we just do an experiment.

So if one believes that demurrage is a good idea, they can put their money where their mouth is. Freicoin will either confirm or disprove the merits of demurrage, and IMHO that's better than arguing until we're blue in the face.

[mccorvic]

Wow, this is an ultra necro-thread.

[Richy_T]

I have been trying to promote bitcoin a bit on facebook and other pages for the 15th october global protest...

Isn't what the protesters want, exactly down to almost the tiniest detail, what bitcoin will offer?

Or do they just want to protest?

Does anyone have tips on how to best communicate bitcoin when talking to occupy protesters?

Neither Apple nor Starbucks accept Bitcoin as of yet.

(Edit: Sorry if that's already been done. I didn't realize this was a 13 page necro-thread)

(Edit2: My salute to Desolator)

[ArticMine]

That's not exactly what Freicoin intends to do. Their goal is for Bitcoin to remain the long-term store of value, while Freicoin becomes the high-velocity everyday currency. Even poor people could exchange effortlessly back and forth because they're both cryptocurrencies.

No poor people cannot effectively change small amounts between crypto currencies because even with crypto currencies minimum fees and limits can cripple them. I actually ran into the following situation yesterday. I received 10 NMC from a mining pool and decided to sell them on BTC-E for BTC to produce a grand total of 0.042 BTC. When it came to withdraw the BTC I find that there is a minimum of 0.1 BTC for a withdrawal amount and a fee of 0.01 BTC. This is not intended as a criticism of BTC-E in any way as there are many valid reasons an exchange to do this but rather to illustrate how even a very small minimum and fee can hurt the very poor. To put this into perspective the daily GDP per capita in Somalia or Burundi works out to 0.0457 BTC (based on an annual 200USD per capita GDP and a BTC/USD rate of 12). This means that a significant proportion of the population in Somalia or Burundi earn way less.

"Why would I ever use Freicoin, then?" everyone asks. The theory is that loans would be easier to get in Freicoin because of its interest rate. I'm personally not 100% convinced that these loans are desirable, so the Freicoin forum would probably be more inclined than I to debate its economics. I say we just do an experiment.

So if one believes that demurrage is a good idea, they can put their money where their mouth is. Freicoin will either confirm or disprove the merits of demurrage, and IMHO that's better than arguing until we're blue in the face.

The issue here is one of perception (image) vs reality (substance). The perception is that a demurrage currency (Freicoin) favors the poor over the rich while a deflationary currency (Bitcoin) favors the rich over the poor. After all the rich have more money than the poor. The reality is the exact opposite. Bitcoin actually favors the poor while Freicoin favors the rich. Unfortunately we live in an age where image more often than not trumps substance so it is not surprising at all that the Occupy Movement would come up with Freicoin and be skeptical towards Bitcoin.