kiklo
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July 14, 2015, 07:47:11 AM |
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Interesting plan kiklo, but I don't think it will make much of a difference. Quick back of the napkin math puts inflation at right around 16.5% since Zeit went full PoS 431 days ago. That comes out to .038% per day or 13.97% per year at the pace we've been on and that should be coming down with the drop from 25% to 20%, though I haven't confirmed that. Fact is a lot of people just park their coins on exchanges and don't bother with staking at all. Two of the largest 10 wallet balances haven't changed in one year according to cryptoID's wallet guesstimates...that's 2.5b coins not staking right there and a year ago that was roughly 9% of the supply.
Hmm, so according to your math we are only seeing ~half of the actual interest rate. Which means %15 may only be between actually 7% or 10 % . And 5% will probably also be lower. Makes sense.   |
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solarion
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July 14, 2015, 12:23:15 PM |
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Interesting plan kiklo, but I don't think it will make much of a difference. Quick back of the napkin math puts inflation at right around 16.5% since Zeit went full PoS 431 days ago. That comes out to .038% per day or 13.97% per year at the pace we've been on and that should be coming down with the drop from 25% to 20%, though I haven't confirmed that. Fact is a lot of people just park their coins on exchanges and don't bother with staking at all. Two of the largest 10 wallet balances haven't changed in one year according to cryptoID's wallet guesstimates...that's 2.5b coins not staking right there and a year ago that was roughly 9% of the supply. Hmm, so according to your math we are only seeing ~half of the actual interest rate. Which means %15 may only be between actually 7% or 10 % . And 5% will probably also be lower. Makes sense. Yep. Like I said it was quick math, using numbers from cryptoID's inflation chart and I welcome anyone to double check it, but you can see that inflation is quite low since the conclusion of PoW. When I have more time I'd like to double check it myself and also see what effect the subsidy reduction has had on the rate of inflation. I don't see how it can be all that far off as I vaguely recall seeing total money supply around 27b back then and it's still under 32b over a year later. With compounding it should be much higher if significant numbers were being staked. This information is also consistent with the low staking numbers cryptoID shows at any given time(7.2% right at this time). The bottom line is...unless something changes overhead supply will be growing far slower than expected. |
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FWBlack
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July 14, 2015, 07:11:29 PM |
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FWBlack
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July 14, 2015, 08:10:37 PM |
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Thanks for the link, I've added it to the post. |
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LionOfNarnia
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July 14, 2015, 08:22:13 PM |
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Hi all  I'm (mentally) knackered after the 1st 2 days of a 2-week college training course but wanted to share a snippet with y'all.... Today I used solar power to activate a fuel cell to produce hydrogen & oxygen from (distilled) water, then used that gas to produce elec-trickery to power a motor. Am I already getting ideas for the future of Zeitcoin? You betcha asses! Stay tuned  |
"I don't always kill & eat things - but when I do it's because I'm a Lion & they were things" |
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groggin
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Activity: 1894
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July 14, 2015, 08:36:10 PM |
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Hi all I'm (mentally) knackered after the 1st 2 days of a 2-week college training course but wanted to share a snippet with y'all.... Today I used solar power to activate a fuel cell to produce hydrogen & oxygen from (distilled) water, then used that gas to produce elec-trickery to power a motor. Am I already getting ideas for the future of Zeitcoin? You betcha asses! Stay tuned do be careful with hydroxy .... |
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atronite
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July 14, 2015, 10:20:26 PM |
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Liquidity is more of a concern to sellers than buyers. Buyers will naturally migrate to the market with the lowest price at the moment they wish to buy...as ever the lowest price is at craptsy. Currently Zeit is 28% cheaper at craptsy than at either of the BTC markets. The lowest price is ALWAYS at craptsy, because that market is being held down by a bot. Coincidentally or not so coincidentally that's also the market that sets the price of ZeitCoin and the other markets follow. The only good thing about the fake price action at craptsy is that the spreads are artificially kept low.
Craptsy is again malfunctioning btw, there's a bid and ask posted at the same price point. Their software has done this regularly for months...if not years. It's really a very poorly run exchange.
Liquidity is also an issue for buyers as well. If I can spike the price 70% just using a 2 BTC investment, and I see that there's no real liquidity on the ask side............well any smart investor would think twice before buying in to any significant degree. Similarly, low liquidity in every market is a problem for our coin in general, for the reason that it makes our coin vulnerable to pump-and-dump. We don't want it to be easy to "pump" the price of Zeitcoin any more than we want it to be easy to "dump" those same coins. After all, maybe the "dumpers" are people who accepted the coin as payment, and now they need to liquidate it for LTC and from LTC to fiat currency just to be able to pay bills. If we as knights are not rich enough to absorb 5 Billion zeitcoins worth of volume at 10 satoshi (500 BTC), then 10 satoshi is clearly too high. Low liquidity, both on the ask and the bid side, is bad for us if we don't want to be subject to pump and dump. It is better in the longer term to have high volume and high liquidity in a narrow price range, then low liquidity and volume in a wide price range (even if that price range is higher than the narrow one). The higher the volume and liquidity, the more protected Zeitcoin will be against these price swings. |
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kiklo
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July 14, 2015, 11:09:56 PM |
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Liquidity is more of a concern to sellers than buyers. Buyers will naturally migrate to the market with the lowest price at the moment they wish to buy...as ever the lowest price is at craptsy. Currently Zeit is 28% cheaper at craptsy than at either of the BTC markets. The lowest price is ALWAYS at craptsy, because that market is being held down by a bot. Coincidentally or not so coincidentally that's also the market that sets the price of ZeitCoin and the other markets follow. The only good thing about the fake price action at craptsy is that the spreads are artificially kept low.
Craptsy is again malfunctioning btw, there's a bid and ask posted at the same price point. Their software has done this regularly for months...if not years. It's really a very poorly run exchange.
Liquidity is also an issue for buyers as well. If I can spike the price 70% just using a 2 BTC investment, and I see that there's no real liquidity on the ask side............well any smart investor would think twice before buying in to any significant degree. Similarly, low liquidity in every market is a problem for our coin in general, for the reason that it makes our coin vulnerable to pump-and-dump. We don't want it to be easy to "pump" the price of Zeitcoin any more than we want it to be easy to "dump" those same coins. After all, maybe the "dumpers" are people who accepted the coin as payment, and now they need to liquidate it for LTC and from LTC to fiat currency just to be able to pay bills. If we as knights are not rich enough to absorb 5 Billion zeitcoins worth of volume at 10 satoshi (500 BTC), then 10 satoshi is clearly too high. Low liquidity, both on the ask and the bid side, is bad for us if we don't want to be subject to pump and dump. It is better in the longer term to have high volume and high liquidity in a narrow price range, then low liquidity and volume in a wide price range (even if that price range is higher than the narrow one). The higher the volume and liquidity, the more protected Zeitcoin will be against these price swings. This liquidity issue is not going to go away for the foreseeable future , reason being all of crypto still functions as commodities (like Gold, Silver, & Oil, we are all brought & sold on an irregular basis . But as time goes on as more zeit is used in transactions, liquidity will improve and a balance will be created, but as with all commodities will still be subject to the laws of supply & demand. Zeit itself was fairly stable between 450 to 500, it was the liquidity issue for litecoin which we are matched with , that caused the massive dumping of zeit for fiat currency, during litecoin pump. In the next month or so litecoin may or may not drop back to below $2 , if it does then Zeit can see a boom in price as traders stock back up compensating for any decrease in LTC prices returning us to the 500 range, waiting for another litecoin pump to dump again. Fiat Traders were after a quick buck and they made a profit, but ours is a long play with rewards much greater planned than the pittance , the quick traders received. All crypto is a roller coaster where you can make a massive profit or a massive loss. Assigning a set price per zeit at the current time is way too soon, because one of the major draws is the fact it can be purchased for so little and it's potential price could be 1000 times higher in a few years. Best course of action , is to keep a barf bag for the really volatile days, and hold on for dear life all of the time, Because the Zeit Roller coaster is going to be the ride of a lifetime. |
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atronite
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July 15, 2015, 06:53:11 AM |
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Liquidity is more of a concern to sellers than buyers. Buyers will naturally migrate to the market with the lowest price at the moment they wish to buy...as ever the lowest price is at craptsy. Currently Zeit is 28% cheaper at craptsy than at either of the BTC markets. The lowest price is ALWAYS at craptsy, because that market is being held down by a bot. Coincidentally or not so coincidentally that's also the market that sets the price of ZeitCoin and the other markets follow. The only good thing about the fake price action at craptsy is that the spreads are artificially kept low.
Craptsy is again malfunctioning btw, there's a bid and ask posted at the same price point. Their software has done this regularly for months...if not years. It's really a very poorly run exchange.
Liquidity is also an issue for buyers as well. If I can spike the price 70% just using a 2 BTC investment, and I see that there's no real liquidity on the ask side............well any smart investor would think twice before buying in to any significant degree. Similarly, low liquidity in every market is a problem for our coin in general, for the reason that it makes our coin vulnerable to pump-and-dump. We don't want it to be easy to "pump" the price of Zeitcoin any more than we want it to be easy to "dump" those same coins. After all, maybe the "dumpers" are people who accepted the coin as payment, and now they need to liquidate it for LTC and from LTC to fiat currency just to be able to pay bills. If we as knights are not rich enough to absorb 5 Billion zeitcoins worth of volume at 10 satoshi (500 BTC), then 10 satoshi is clearly too high. Low liquidity, both on the ask and the bid side, is bad for us if we don't want to be subject to pump and dump. It is better in the longer term to have high volume and high liquidity in a narrow price range, then low liquidity and volume in a wide price range (even if that price range is higher than the narrow one). The higher the volume and liquidity, the more protected Zeitcoin will be against these price swings. This liquidity issue is not going to go away for the foreseeable future , reason being all of crypto still functions as commodities (like Gold, Silver, & Oil, we are all brought & sold on an irregular basis . But as time goes on as more zeit is used in transactions, liquidity will improve and a balance will be created, but as with all commodities will still be subject to the laws of supply & demand. Zeit itself was fairly stable between 450 to 500, it was the liquidity issue for litecoin which we are matched with , that caused the massive dumping of zeit for fiat currency, during litecoin pump. In the next month or so litecoin may or may not drop back to below $2 , if it does then Zeit can see a boom in price as traders stock back up compensating for any decrease in LTC prices returning us to the 500 range, waiting for another litecoin pump to dump again. Fiat Traders were after a quick buck and they made a profit, but ours is a long play with rewards much greater planned than the pittance , the quick traders received. All crypto is a roller coaster where you can make a massive profit or a massive loss. Assigning a set price per zeit at the current time is way too soon, because one of the major draws is the fact it can be purchased for so little and it's potential price could be 1000 times higher in a few years. Best course of action , is to keep a barf bag for the really volatile days, and hold on for dear life all of the time, Because the Zeit Roller coaster is going to be the ride of a lifetime. Indeed. Wait until March 2016 and we have a bunch more members to add to the knights. The more members we have, the more rare the coin becomes.  |
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CapSER2.0
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July 15, 2015, 12:53:57 PM |
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We aren't sitting idle, Capser2.0
Without the active knighthood neither the high of 485 nor stopping the dump at 142 were possible.
There are 4-6 active knights, but we need all knights. That was the primary idea behind.
Criticism isn't the solution but support.
I personally have 100 LTC in buy support - how much do you have?
Visit the official forum - there you'll find a hidden area prepared for the knights. (Sanctum of Knights)
Cheers,
Ray
Hi Ray! I am a Knight and I want to participate more actively in the community, more to see that things are not functioning too well that let us say. I registered again in the official forum and i need access to the sanctuary of the Knight, and thank you for working in favor of this currency. |
ZEIT: MpKWWsnqqJ32jKchgfmwKBFkRzNCU8XjUu
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CapSER2.0
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July 15, 2015, 01:33:09 PM |
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For someone with the intention of speculate with ZEIT, they may like that ZEIT fall more than 70% in ten days, but I insist it is an aberration and it is very little serious! Who will invest in ZEIT, watching that may fall so strongly, and for get worse this is a coin without liquidity?? ??  Someone can answer this question with foundation? |
ZEIT: MpKWWsnqqJ32jKchgfmwKBFkRzNCU8XjUu
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podizzle
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July 15, 2015, 01:56:26 PM |
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i dont think anyones arguing with you casper you are making some good points. liquidity on both the buy side and sell side on all exchanges is a good goal.
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CapSER2.0
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July 15, 2015, 02:29:32 PM |
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This is so podizzle.
We will have to make some adjustments to mejordar some behaviors, because it is clear that such a fall in ten days is inadmissible!
I can assure you that no major investor is going to bother to invest some in a coin that falls so heavily, and without can recover anything of the invested by not having liquidity.
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ZEIT: MpKWWsnqqJ32jKchgfmwKBFkRzNCU8XjUu
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kiklo
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Activity: 1092
Merit: 1000
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July 15, 2015, 06:48:40 PM
Last edit: July 15, 2015, 07:21:57 PM by kiklo |
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This is so podizzle.
We will have to make some adjustments to mejordar some behaviors, because it is clear that such a fall in ten days is inadmissible!
I can assure you that no major investor is going to bother to invest some in a coin that falls so heavily, and without can recover anything of the invested by not having liquidity.
More stability is always nice, but as it being a major issue, a simple comparison Bitcoin high was $1,242 and now only ~$300. Basically divided by 4.14 times. Zeit hit $700,000 and is now ~$350,000, basically only divided by 2 times. One thing I learned from watching the markets , major investors always have their own agenda. It is those of us with resolve to weather the price fluctuations, that will make the final determination of the success of Zeit. This is the danger after a Spike in Price, especially with a bot that sells just to lower the price on cryptsy without regard for making a profit, it causes feelings of despair due to the price drop, which by the way are totally false, take the average price over a 3 or 6 month period and you will see we are growing. Will their be more price spikes, no doubt. But average them over a 3 month period , and you will see they are no big deal, just an opportunity to buy more zeit after the dump. Also why we have to be patient and focus on strong slow growth, if we rocket up like last month, begin preparing for the reentry which is just a part of that cycle. FYI: Best example of why to view investing in Long Term verses Short Term. http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/oct/29/bitcoin-forgotten-currency-norway-oslo-home |
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Rent_a_Ray
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July 15, 2015, 08:31:16 PM |
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Hi Ray! I am a Knight and I want to participate more actively in the community, more to see that things are not functioning too well that let us say.
I registered again in the official forum and i need access to the sanctuary of the Knight, and thank you for working in favor of this currency.
Done! Welcome to the war room. Cheers, Ray |
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atronite
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July 16, 2015, 02:02:36 AM |
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For someone with the intention of speculate with ZEIT, they may like that ZEIT fall more than 70% in ten days, but I insist it is an aberration and it is very little serious! Who will invest in ZEIT, watching that may fall so strongly, and for get worse this is a coin without liquidity?? ?? Someone can answer this question with foundation? Do I keep having to say this over and over? It wasn't just us, it was EVERY....and I mean EVVVVVVVVVVVERYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY coin (besides BTC) that got dumped. Not just Zeit. Look at Moon FFS. Look at NAMECOIN! Look at DASH (aka darkcoin). LOOK at MOON over the same period!! Seriously, *Raises voice an order of magnitude higher* LOOK AT ALL THE COIN MARKETS (that matter) ON CRYPTSY OVER THE SAME PERIOD OF TIME*lowers voice to normal levels* You will find that Zeitcoin merely moved with rest of the altcoin market. Any prospective investor will notice the same thing if they look at the charts of every other coin. There may be exceptions, of course, but this is generally the norm. Besides, if you notice, barely....what.....100m coins changed hands? There are like over 31b coins floating around in the wild. And we were visiting previous highs. Lots (and I mean LOTS) of people bought in between 5 and 17 satoshi, and quite a few will be happy just to exit their position without a real loss or even a small profit. We will encounter a LOT of hidden resistance between here and 17 satoshi. Once we break it (and we will break it, because this community has strong, has active devs and is growing), then the sky is the limit. But this can only happen naturally, when we are ready. Not because of speculators (or because litecoin crashes to .0001). I mean when you buy the coin, you're saying you have faith in this community and what it can do with the coin in the future. If you don't buy for that reason, then you should put that zeitcoin on exchanges to provide liquidity on the markets, and move on to a coin that you DO believe in when real investors buy up your stock. |
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podizzle
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July 16, 2015, 06:45:51 AM |
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finally someone broke out the giant red caps! been waiting soo long
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groggin
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July 16, 2015, 04:43:57 PM |
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FWBlack
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July 16, 2015, 05:23:48 PM |
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Sucks! Thanks for the link though. |
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