★ ZEIT ★ [COMMUNITY & KNIGHTS] [ULTRA LOW INFLATION] [MICRO-PAYMENTS]

[atronite]

Would you do this by sending yourself some money and paying the fee? How do you do this?

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[kiklo]

Would you do this by sending yourself some money and paying the fee? How do you do this?

Tips on using Coin Control
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=487814.msg10296134#msg10296134

Step1:
Enabled Coin Control
In the wallet client, go to settings and then select options. Click on the tab that says Display. Check the box that says Display coin control features (experts only!). Press OK.

Step2: 
Click Send Coins , then under Coin Control Features , click inputs ,
click the arrow on the left side , this expands everything so you can see all of the blocks in an address,
Then click on the confirmations tab, this will sort the blocks by # of confirmations.
Place a check mark in the box to the left , this selects those blocks to be combined.
(If you look at top it shows the combined amount of the blocks you checked and the fee to send it , and the amount after fee.)
Only select the blocks with the lowest confirmations, as they have recently minted, and you will not lose much staking time by choosing them.
Click OK

If you are sending the coins out to an exchange, just put in the exchange zeit address and
, copy the amount in after fee, into the amount of zeit you want to send, click send.

or 

If you are combining your blocks, then click Receive Coins tab, right click on your Zeit Receive Address and Copy Address, click on Send Coins, paste your zeit receive address into Pay to:
copy the amount in after fee, into the amount of zeit you want to send,
Click Send.

Post if you have any questions. 

 

[atronite]

Would you do this by sending yourself some money and paying the fee? How do you do this?

Tips on using Coin Control
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=487814.msg10296134#msg10296134

Step1:
Enabled Coin Control
In the wallet client, go to settings and then select options. Click on the tab that says Display. Check the box that says Display coin control features (experts only!). Press OK.

Step2: 
Click Send Coins , then under Coin Control Features , click inputs ,
click the arrow on the left side , this expands everything so you can see all of the blocks in an address,
Then click on the confirmations tab, this will sort the blocks by # of confirmations.
Place a check mark in the box to the left , this selects those blocks to be combined.
(If you look at top it shows the combined amount of the blocks you checked and the fee to send it , and the amount after fee.)
Only select the blocks with the lowest confirmations, as they have recently minted, and you will not lose much staking time by choosing them.
Click OK

If you are sending the coins out to an exchange, just put in the exchange zeit address and
, copy the amount in after fee, into the amount of zeit you want to send, click send.

or 

If you are combining your blocks, then click Receive Coins tab, right click on your Zeit Receive Address and Copy Address, click on Send Coins, paste your zeit receive address into Pay to:
copy the amount in after fee, into the amount of zeit you want to send,
Click Send.

Post if you have any questions. 

 

Thanks! Now next time I stake, I can actually know how much I got in one go instead of having to add everything up!

[logictense]

Would you do this by sending yourself some money and paying the fee? How do you do this?

Tips on using Coin Control
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=487814.msg10296134#msg10296134

Step1:
Enabled Coin Control
In the wallet client, go to settings and then select options. Click on the tab that says Display. Check the box that says Display coin control features (experts only!). Press OK.

Step2: 
Click Send Coins , then under Coin Control Features , click inputs ,
click the arrow on the left side , this expands everything so you can see all of the blocks in an address,
Then click on the confirmations tab, this will sort the blocks by # of confirmations.
Place a check mark in the box to the left , this selects those blocks to be combined.
(If you look at top it shows the combined amount of the blocks you checked and the fee to send it , and the amount after fee.)
Only select the blocks with the lowest confirmations, as they have recently minted, and you will not lose much staking time by choosing them.
Click OK

If you are sending the coins out to an exchange, just put in the exchange zeit address and
, copy the amount in after fee, into the amount of zeit you want to send, click send.

or 

If you are combining your blocks, then click Receive Coins tab, right click on your Zeit Receive Address and Copy Address, click on Send Coins, paste your zeit receive address into Pay to:
copy the amount in after fee, into the amount of zeit you want to send,
Click Send.

Post if you have any questions. 

 

Ya. Why do u get nuts about colorful fonts? Are u sissy?

[atronite]

That being said, I have another suggestion (although I may be late to the game).

What if part of our problem is that our overall supply is just too large?

Whenever nations have far too large a money supply to justify such a large amount, what they end up doing is issue new money, only with fewer zeros. And the net result always ends up being positive in the long run when combined with other tactics. Publicly traded companies do a similar thing in order to avoid de-listing from the DOW Jones or NASDAQ.

What if we did the same thing? What if we did the equivalent of a 10-for-1 reverse stock split and reduced the total supply of zeitcoin?

Now, obviously, the downside of all of this is that everyone would end up LOSING up to 9 Zeitoshi because...well....rounding. But considering how much a zeitoshi is actually WORTH...not such a HUGE downside. Additionally, the transaction fee would also have to be lowered by the same amount in order to avoid increasing the fee by 10 fold in real terms (and...for that matter....membership in Zeit Knights would be lowered to 10 Million). Lastly, this needs to be announced WAY ahead of schedule so traders have time to prepare, and coordination with existing exchanges NEEDS to happen.

Now, in real money terms, this would NOT raise your net worth. Your % share of the overall supply would still be the same. But what WOULD be achieved (in theory) is a price increase, and by extension an increased perceived value of our coin.

Combined with the ultra low inflation (not sure why it has to be THAT low..... 0.1% should be plenty low), this should fix our price problems.

Again, if NOTHING else, even if our price DOESN'T change, we could transition from a "litecoin" denominated coin into a bitcoin denominated coin, and credibly open ourselves up to a MUCH larger traders market FAR sooner than waiting for the same thing to happen years down the road.

[atronite]

And if we wanted to be REALLY extreme, we could even do a 100-for-1 reverse split. Bring our effective price to around 50-100 satoshi (which is far more preferable for trading purposes).

Combined with low inflation, I think this will be value added for our community, considering that...again....we would be able to transition from the litecoin market to the bitcoin market without affecting our actual overall market cap (which is meaningless anyways).

[logictense]

And if we wanted to be REALLY extreme, we could even do a 100-for-1 reverse split. Bring our effective price to around 50-100 satoshi (which is far more preferable for trading purposes).

Whatever the swap ratio is, the final amount of tokens in circulation will be proportional to the cumulative marketcap, given theres a support to balance out the reduced supply. Learn the math.

[atronite]

And if we wanted to be REALLY extreme, we could even do a 100-for-1 reverse split. Bring our effective price to around 50-100 satoshi (which is far more preferable for trading purposes).

Whatever the swap ratio is, the final amount of tokens in circulation will be proportional to the cumulative marketcap, given theres a support to balance out the reduced supply. Learn the math.

It's more than just math though.

It's also about PERCEPTION. Plus, it gets out out of the LTC/Zeit market and gives us a credible BTC/Zeit pairing.

That matters in terms of marketing. People see us at 1 satoshi and end up never giving our community a chance because of it. A reverse 100-1 split benefits us by drastically reduced the available supply and drives up the price in nominal terms.

When people who don't closely follow EVERY community see the spike in prices, people will wonder what happened. They will read this thread, become aware of us, and we would grow as a result.

And if we got the exchanges to send out mass emails with the announcement....dude that's like free marketing and name exposure. We could even generate free press from this.

Again, all this will result in community growth in the long run.

Plus....it's JUST controversial enough to separate us from other POS coins.

[kiklo]

Ya. Why do u get nuts about colorful fonts? Are u sissy?

Hmm,

If I kick your ass,  does it make me a Soccer Player?    


 

[kiklo]

Too many Negative side effects to a swap ,

Users miss the swap and lose their coins.
There would be a direct decrease in marketcap proportional to swap if the price dropped.
No guarantee the price would not return to exactly what it is now.
We would lose a few exchanges and have to buy our way back on.
The lower the amount of coins the weaker the difficulty (which lessens network security.)

The amount of coins is good for Security & Global Acceptance , all we need to do is fix the inflation and everything else will smooth out.  


 

[atronite]

Too many Negative side effects to a swap ,

Users miss the swap and lose their coins.
There would be a direct decrease in marketcap proportional to swap.
No guarantee the price would not return to exactly what it is now.
We would lose a few exchanges and have to buy our way back on.
The lower the amount of coins the weaker the difficulty (which lessens network security.)

The amount of coins is good for Security & Global Acceptance , all we need to do is fix the inflation and everything else will smooth out.  


 

This is why coordination with existing exchanges is key. In an ideal world, they would ALL take the wallets offline for a few days and hault trading, then increase all listings by a factor of 10 or 100 while decreasing the supply by the appropriate amount. But why would we lose a few exchanges? Are they hostile to such maneuvers? Which exchanges?

There is no guarantee that we won't eventually drop to 20 litoshi right NOW, which is where we USED to be, even after the transition to ultra low inflation.

I don't understand the network difficulty aspect. I thought it was based on the number of active wallets?

And you'll have to qualify what you would mean by "users miss the swap and miss their coins". If you mean that users would end up inadvertently sell their coins at a 90% loss the day the swap happens, that's what the coordination with the exchanges is supposed to prevent.

[kiklo]

This is why coordination with existing exchanges is key. In an ideal world, they would take the wallets offline for a few days and hault trading, then increase all listings by a factor of 10 or 100 while decreasing the supply by the appropriate amount. But why would we lose a few exchanges? Are they hostile to such maneuvers?

There is no guarantee that we won't eventually drop to 20 litoshi right NOW, which is where we USED to be, even after the transition to ultra low inflation.

I don't understand the network difficulty aspect. I thought it was based on the number of active wallets?

Cryptopia Delists any Swapped Coin. It is a Policy of their exchange.


Technicals
hashProofOfStake <= [Coin-age] x [Difficulty]      
[Coin-age] = [amount of coins] x [days in stake]   
Decrease the # of coins and you decrease the hashProofOfStake. (Weakens Security)

And you'll have to qualify what you would mean by "users miss the swap and miss their coins". If you mean that users would end up inadvertently sell their coins at a 90% loss the day the swap happens, that's what the coordination with the exchanges is supposed to prevent.

Not everyone speaks English , and many have not been able to understand the wallet alerts ,
like this guy still on the oldest version  of Zeitcoin:0.7.2 (151.230.77.96) .
There is always people that miss the swap. Plus you have the issue of having to burn what is not swapped, it is just really not worth it.


It is not the current number of coins that is the problem, it is creating more coins faster than what can realistically be absorbed by the marketplace.
Our Target price is between .01 and $1 , the ultra low inflation rate will help us achieve and then hold that range.
It also keeps our price low enough that all foreign counties users are able to participate.
Decreasing our number of coins would decrease the number of global users that can partake in ZEIT,
we would be no different than BTC , a coin for the elite only. That is a dead end in the long run.
As their price is already too high for the micropayment industry.

ZEIT will be for the entire world and has to be affordable for all.


 

FYI:

Plus....it's JUST controversial enough to separate us from other POS coins.

No worries, we are the only Proof of Stake coin even discussing going Ultra Low Inflation ,
between that & the Knights , we already do stand separate from all other coins.  

[atronite]

"Cryptopia Delists any Swapped Coin. It is a Policy of their exchange."

Well that kind of puts a stake in my suggestion. I definitely agree that without exchange endorsement, a swap would never work. And I primarily trade on cryptopia.

In fact, about half of the supply there is mine (not the big one, but the other listings). We had a dump of over 100 LTC worth of zeitcoin at 120 and i've been trying to sell at profit. But this is all house/stake money that I'm playing with at this point.


"There is always people that miss the swap."

You mean the hard fork, right? Isn't reducing the interest rate to essentially nothing going to make that happen anyways?

[kiklo]

"There is always people that miss the swap."

You mean the hard fork, right? Isn't reducing the interest rate to essentially nothing going to make that happen anyways?

No , A missed swap would make someone lose all of their coins with no way to recover them.   

A Hard fork would not make anyone lose any coins from before the fork, as at any time they can download an updated snapshot and update to the latest wallet.
Their coin age (also would not be lost) will still pay out the same as if they were on the correct fork when it does finally stake.
So in essence they lose nothing. 


 


FYI:
A Swap would get us Delisted from Cryptopia.
A Hard Fork does not affect our listing status at all. 

[jwinterm]

I'm not even sure this would even require a soft or hard fork, if all you really want to do is move the decimal place to the left. I believe all operations are done on atomic units (satoshis), not in actual coin terms, so it would just be a matter of displaying differently in the wallet software - make it 10^12 satoshi per coin rather than 10^8. Dashcoin did exactly this (not dashdarkxcoin, the cryptonote one), and while it is a different codebase, I believe principle is the same.

[kiklo]

I'm not even sure this would even require a soft or hard fork, if all you really want to do is move the decimal place to the left. I believe all operations are done on atomic units (satoshis), not in actual coin terms, so it would just be a matter of displaying differently in the wallet software - make it 10^12 satoshi per coin rather than 10^8. Dashcoin did exactly this (not dashdarkxcoin, the cryptonote one), and while it is a different codebase, I believe principle is the same.

We are already at the final 5% rate in the code,
meaning an additional .0005% rate will have to be added to take effect at a specific block #.
We are also changing from a 20 day minimum stake age to 1 day minimum stake age, (hard fork will be required.)  

 

FYI:
Just to be clear, this is how easy it will be ,
Rent_a_Ray will update the wallet software , Users will download and install the Updated wallet over their old one.
Restart their wallet and finished, that is it for everyone that updates before the hard fork is scheduled.

For anyone that can't update until after the hard fork,
all they will have to do is update the wallet software and then install the latest snapshot and they are good to go.
Easy.    

[jwinterm]

I wasn't referring to changing interest rate, just adjusting the total coin supply lower/shifting the decimal to the left.

[kiklo]

I wasn't referring to changing interest rate, just adjusting the total coin supply lower/shifting the decimal to the left.

I don't really see any point of doing that.
Since Cryptopia keeps a track of their number of coins by an internal blockchain,
odds are it would break their accounting and cause a delisting anyway, since their decimal points would no longer align with our wallets.

 

FYI:
What we are doing is inflation control by reducing the interest rate , we are not decreasing anyone's current amount of coins.
 

[jwinterm]

I know what you're planning to do, but I was just talking about atronite's idea, and saying that it wouldn't require a swap or even a fork, it is simply a matter of changing how things are displayed in the wallet software. It's basically akin to showing kilodoge instead of doge in your wallet - just call a kilozeit the new official zeit.

I think all you would need to do is add a few zeros here:
https://github.com/zeitcoin/zeitcoin/blob/master/src/util.h#L35
And I don't think that is a consensus parameter or anything, so you could recompile yourself and still talk to other nodes on the network.

[kiklo]

I know what you're planning to do, but I was just talking about atronite's idea, and saying that it wouldn't require a swap or even a fork, it is simply a matter of changing how things are displayed in the wallet software. It's basically akin to showing kilodoge instead of doge in your wallet - just call a kilozeit the new official zeit.

I think all you would need to do is add a few zeros here:
https://github.com/zeitcoin/zeitcoin/blob/master/src/util.h#L35
And I don't think that is a consensus parameter or anything, so you could recompile yourself and still talk to other nodes on the network.

Ok, I get you are on a tangent on how to decrease the coin supply by moving the decimal without a swap.

1337 has been talking about a reverse swap, maybe you can share your new insight with them.

But it is irrelevant for our coin, since we are not modifying the current supply and have no intention of ever doing so.