★ ZEIT ★ [COMMUNITY & KNIGHTS] [ULTRA LOW INFLATION] [MICRO-PAYMENTS]

[uki]

Totally with kiklo here. A reverse split seems like a horrible idea both from a consistency and a security perspective.

What is wrong with security, if you have a trusted third party for such a swap?

This is the part you keep missing and one thing the original programmer did perfectly.
The more coins there are , the more protected a Proof of Stake coin is.


hashProofOfStake is what protects our blocks from being overwritten, by long or short range or history rewrite attacks.


hashProofOfStake <= [Coin-age] x [Difficulty]      
[Coin-age] = [amount of coins] x [days in stake]   

Example
Amount of coins in a staked block = 10000
Difficulty =2
Days in Stake = 5

[Coin-age] = [amount of coins] x [days in stake]   
      50000 =   10000   x  5

hashProofOfStake <= [Coin-age] x [Difficulty]   
         100000         = 50000       x   2

If we decrease /reverse swap by 100 to 1
then the Amount of coins in a staked block = 100

[Coin-age] = [amount of coins] x [days in stake]   
      500 =   100   x  5

hashProofOfStake <= [Coin-age] x [Difficulty]   
         1000         = 500      x   2

Instead of a hashProofOfStake of 100000 protecting the block, then our security will be 100 times weaker if we go with a reverse swap.
Which would make us more vulnerable to all kinds of nasty attacks that we are currently invulnerable too.

Reverse Swap is a bad idea on many different levels, security being the most important one.

 

I understand that perfectly. The point is, and we have already discussed it some time ago, at some moment the blockchain becomes too long to effectively manage the process of new users joining ZEIT. Therefore you will need to introduce a FIXED CHECKPOINT to speed it up. I thought that all changes could be then swiftly introduced at the same time, while having a hard fork.
This issue will hunt ZEIT anyway and rather sooner than later taking into account the number of blocks we already have and the 30s block time.
For now kiklo provides his snapshot service, which is great temporary solution, but again it is as secure as your snapshot provider is - security issue.
So each way there are security issues and to have full picture one has to consider pros and cons of each solution, not just the pros.
Just my 2 zeits

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[kiklo]

I understand that perfectly. The point is, and we have already discussed it some time ago, at some moment the blockchain becomes too long to effectively manage the process of new users joining ZEIT. Therefore you will need to introduce a FIXED CHECKPOINT to speed it up. I thought that all changes could be then swiftly introduced at the same time, while having a hard fork.
This issue will hunt ZEIT anyway and rather sooner than later taking into account the number of blocks we already have and the 30s block time.
For now kiklo provides his snapshot service, which is great temporary solution, but again it is as secure as your snapshot provider is - security issue.
So each way there are security issues and to have full picture one has to consider pros and cons of each solution, not just the pros.
Just my 2 zeits

Ray can add a fixed checkpoint to hard fork version,
he can also add a fixed checkpoint at anytime thru the alert system, so no worries on the checkpoints.

Security of the hashproof of stake is paramount , it has to be secure over everything else.

Blockchain bloat is an issue, but it is not a security issue and a swap would only postpone the issue not solve it.
But after watching Eth add 1 gigabyte to their chain per month and we only add 1 gigabyte per year , we are not doing that bad.
ZEIT will be a global payment system, expecting it to run on a raspberry pi is unrealistic.
Considering ram & hard drive space get cheaper every year , the bloat is not that big a deal.
(And we are watching testing of compressed blockchains, but the initial reports are it is not worth it. Increases the CPU usage. )

We will need Lite Wallets in the Future that don't download the blockchain at all. This removes the bloat issue completely from the end users.
Current Price $1500 setup from one company (But they do everything PC & Mac & Android & IPhone lite wallet), hopefully this price will drop or it will have to wait until their are a lot more Knights so we can spread out the costs.)

That 30 second block time gives us 20X the current BTC transaction capacity,
part of the reason we dropped moving to the 45 second block speed, is the realization 1 day we are going to need all of that capacity.  


 

[kiklo]

ZEIT & Mint both have 20X BTC current transactions capacity.
Both running at a 30 second block speed.

ZEIT is 4 confirmations.


 

zeit fast transaction because transaction not equal bitcoin
if zeit transaction if same bitcoin, i think problem bitcoin is low transaction speed can same accident in zeit too

BTC max is 7 transactions per second, which means the Maximum it can handle would be ~4,200 transactions per block per 10 minute block.
ZEIT max is 20X that since our block speed is 30 seconds instead of 10 minutes.
So ZEIT maximum would be 140 transactions per second ,
which in 10 minutes would be able to process a maximum of 84,000 transactions.
ZEIT                                        BTC
84,000 transactions   Verses   4,200 transaction   every 10 minutes

ZEIT can handle BTC current volume without even blinking. 

 

[kiklo]

HAPPY NEW YEAR!!! 




 

[FWBlack]

Happy New Year!  May 2017 be the Zeitcoin year!

[trnpall]

Bitcoin passed $1,000, with a marketcap of $16.5 B.
AltCoins with a marketcap of $2.3 B

If Bitcoin going to $3000 a coin, it's marketcap would be almost $50 B.
Altcoins would have a cap of near $10 Billion.

Every coin in the top 50 would be worth $50 million and up.
Top 100 would be $10 million and up

It would be nice to see it, hope hope hope

[uki]

Bitcoin passed $1,000, with a marketcap of $16.5 B.
AltCoins with a marketcap of $2.3 B

If Bitcoin going to $3000 a coin, it's marketcap would be almost $50 B.
Altcoins would have a cap of near $10 Billion.

Every coin in the top 50 would be worth $50 million and up.
Top 100 would be $10 million and up

It would be nice to see it, hope hope hope

what would be the reason to push the price of Bitcoin to $3000?

[solarion]

Smart money is on global economic collapse. USD Index is up another .45% this morning despite already entering the new year at a 12yr high.

The US buck is destroying the lesser fiat garbage currencies. Check Venezuelan Bolivar for a realtime sample of what this looks like. China will devalue moar soon and the silly zerozone currency will dissolve...most likely in 2017. Doubt there's any need to mention the economic disaster that has been ongoing in Japan for the past 25 years.

Gold and Silver would probably be going nuts just now(even in US dollar terms) if bankster cartels didn't have a jackboot on PM exchange rates. Amazing what naked short selling paper contracts can do to control prices of a physical commodity.

[uki]

Sure, but all these threats were already in place when Bitcoin was worth $1200 (Mt. Gox pump) and then at $250 price (the dump afterwards).
I will rephrase my question: what has changed so drastically since the time Bitcoin was worth $500 (last summer) to justify a six fold increase in USD price?

[solarion]

These are no longer simply "threats" to the global economy. The Venezuelan currency collapsed in 2016...check a chart. The oldest bank in the world is collapsing NOW. The largest bank in Europe(Deutchebank) was bailed out in 2016. US Interest rates went up 100 basis points in a few months. Do you know what that does to interest rate swaps? Derivatives? ...other weapons of mass financial destruction?

The global banking system is dead and being propped up by gumbymints and central banksters. Mass debt saturation has been achieved and now we're in a deflationary spiral.

[uki]

These are no longer simply "threats" to the global economy. The Venezuelan currency collapsed in 2016...check a chart. The oldest bank in the world is collapsing NOW. The largest bank in Europe(Deutchebank) was bailed out in 2016. US Interest rates went up 100 basis points in a few months. Do you know what that does to interest rate swaps? Derivatives? ...other weapons of mass financial destruction?

The global banking system is dead and being propped up by gumbymints and central banksters. Mass debt saturation has been achieved and now we're in a deflationary spiral.

You seem to mix two things: once you write about deflationary spiral and in the next sentence you write about serious rising of interest rates in 2016 and its consequences to derivative instruments. One or the other? I agree that we live in a rigged financial system, but that is also the reason why gold didn't go to $5k per ounce, and that is why it will be very hard for Bitcoin to reach $3k. Sorry, but I am allergic to gold bug mantra, and $3k Bitcoin sounds exactly that way like $5k gold sounded back in 2009-11. Cheat me once... I don't think we will see that, and what is more, I don't wish that anyone of us to happen. That would mean a global financial meltdown and crisis much worse to these we have seen so far (1929, and the recent ones) hitting practically anyone on the planet. I guess, I don't need to add what usually happens shortly after an outbreak of such a crisis, there are plenty examples in the history. What is more important however is that even with such an event in place Bitcoin, as it is today, would still not be the safe haven of the first choice, with gold and silver being easier to use and more widely accepted. And consequently, not rising that much against the collapsing dollar. But, as I said, I see this kind of scenarios as an academical discussion, rather than a real threat, especially that Bitcoin price today is still mostly the result of a speculative force rather than fundamental development. In this context, I repeat my previous question, what has changed fundamentally to Bitcoin since its valuation with $5xx handle, to make it rise six fold?

PS.
There were plenty of weaker fiat currencies collapsing in the last 25 years (as a result of speculative plays or economical situation), Russian rouble in 1998 is probably the most spectacular one, yet that is not the reason for Bitcoin to shot to the moon against US dollar.
 


 

[solarion]

"You seem to mix two things: once you write about deflationary spiral and in the next sentence you write about serious rising of interest rates in 2016 and its consequences to derivative instruments."

I've no clue why you seem to think those two particular occurrences are in any way contrary or mutually exclusive. Both can be easily examined and confirmed to, in fact, be happening simultaneously. Here, allow me to make it painfully easy for you.

http://finance.yahoo.com/chart/%5ETNX#eyJtdWx0aUNvbG9yTGluZSI6ZmFsc2UsImJvbGxpbmdlclVwcGVyQ29sb3IiOiIjZTIwMDgxIiwiYm9sbGluZ2VyTG93ZXJDb2xvciI6IiM5NTUyZmYiLCJtZmlMaW5lQ29sb3IiOiIjNDVlM2ZmIiwibWFjZERpdmVyZ2VuY2VDb2xvciI6IiNmZjdiMTIiLCJtYWNkTWFjZENvbG9yIjoiIzc4N2Q4MiIsIm1hY2RTaWduYWxDb2xvciI6IiMwMDAwMDAiLCJyc2lMaW5lQ29sb3IiOiIjZmZiNzAwIiwic3RvY2hLTGluZUNvbG9yIjoiI2ZmYjcwMCIsInN0b2NoRExpbmVDb2xvciI6IiM0NWUzZmYiLCJyYW5nZSI6IjFtbyIsImFsbG93Q2hhcnRTdGFja2luZyI6dHJ1ZX0%3D

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/M2V

Please tell me you don't buy the silly gibberish that exits the pie hole of the current federal reserve puppet-in-chief. The US is seeing the lowest M2 velocity since M2 velocity has been tracked. This is happening while treasury prices are crashing(yields up). This is a global liquidity crunch, since as you likely know the US "petro" dollar is the world reserve currency. This is a recipe for the destruction of every other fiat currency and that is precisely what is happening.

As to the odd comments about gold prices. I can only assume you're completely unfamiliar with or unable to read a COT report? Are you unaware that DeutcheBank has admitted to taking part in rigging these markets and has named several other global banks as accomplices in the rigging of PM markets?

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-10-17/deutsche-bank-pays-38-million-settle-silver-manipulation-lawsuit

This stuff is not theory. It's fact at this point. It's also a fact that there is no Bitcoin derivative to naked short sell into the market to control the price vs fiat. This is why Bitcoin will go wild before PMs finally break free of their manipulation.

[trnpall]

My Reason for the 3k bitcoin, is global usage going up because of many reason.
Countries with shit currency/losing trust in there governments, global awareness/more people using it.
etc.
Usage in many countries is going up quickly
https://blockchain.info/charts/my-wallet-n-users
5.5 million to 11 million wallets and BTC Marketcap went up equal to it.
I'm projection 35 million users that equals a $3k price, because of demand.

Trading if it to has to go from $250m a day to $600m a day too.

[uki]

"You seem to mix two things: once you write about deflationary spiral and in the next sentence you write about serious rising of interest rates in 2016 and its consequences to derivative instruments."

I've no clue why you seem to think those two particular occurrences are in any way contrary or mutually exclusive. Both can be easily examined and confirmed to, in fact, be happening simultaneously. Here, allow me to make it painfully easy for you.

http://finance.yahoo.com/chart/%5ETNX#eyJtdWx0aUNvbG9yTGluZSI6ZmFsc2UsImJvbGxpbmdlclVwcGVyQ29sb3IiOiIjZTIwMDgxIiwiYm9sbGluZ2VyTG93ZXJDb2xvciI6IiM5NTUyZmYiLCJtZmlMaW5lQ29sb3IiOiIjNDVlM2ZmIiwibWFjZERpdmVyZ2VuY2VDb2xvciI6IiNmZjdiMTIiLCJtYWNkTWFjZENvbG9yIjoiIzc4N2Q4MiIsIm1hY2RTaWduYWxDb2xvciI6IiMwMDAwMDAiLCJyc2lMaW5lQ29sb3IiOiIjZmZiNzAwIiwic3RvY2hLTGluZUNvbG9yIjoiI2ZmYjcwMCIsInN0b2NoRExpbmVDb2xvciI6IiM0NWUzZmYiLCJyYW5nZSI6IjFtbyIsImFsbG93Q2hhcnRTdGFja2luZyI6dHJ1ZX0%3D

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/M2V

Please tell me you don't buy the silly gibberish that exits the pie hole of the current federal reserve puppet-in-chief. The US is seeing the lowest M2 velocity since M2 velocity has been tracked. This is happening while treasury prices are crashing(yields up). This is a global liquidity crunch, since as you likely know the US "petro" dollar is the world reserve currency. This is a recipe for the destruction of every other fiat currency and that is precisely what is happening.

As to the odd comments about gold prices. I can only assume you're completely unfamiliar with or unable to read a COT report? Are you unaware that DeutcheBank has admitted to taking part in rigging these markets and has named several other global banks as accomplices in the rigging of PM markets?

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-10-17/deutsche-bank-pays-38-million-settle-silver-manipulation-lawsuit

This stuff is not theory. It's fact at this point. It's also a fact that there is no Bitcoin derivative to naked short sell into the market to control the price vs fiat. This is why Bitcoin will go wild before PMs finally break free of their manipulation.

I am fully aware how pm markets are manipulated, don't worry about that. COT reports included.
I am also aware how other reports, e.g., US unemployment data, are manipulated so that its outcome pleases the forces that be. I am also aware of the fact that the biggest banks (not only DB, the list is long and includes practically every single big bank, US or non-US) have been rigging the price of pms since the very beginning of the gold-free US dollar standard (1971).
But with all that scheme in place, I am also aware that the can-kicking game can be played longer than you and I can imagine, and more than any logical explanation of non-rigged economic indicators would permit.
As an example, have a look at this post back from April 2013: http://www.tfmetalsreport.com/blog/4667/gold-delivery-or-default
The things got only worse since then, yet where is the price of gold?
Having that in mind, I am really sceptical about seeing $3k Bitcoin, for exactly the same reasons.
No matter M2 speed, no matter fall of Venezuelan currency. Unfortunately.

And one more thing. Bitcoin's adoption is still well below that of PMs. As I wrote in my first post, fundamentally for Bitcoin not much has changed since the $5xx price. Therefore $3k is a wishful thinking that has little to do with the real price we may experience. Don't understand me wrong, but I don't want to be biased in any direction, neither Bitcoin-positive nor negative.

[BitcoinNational]

Smart money is on global economic collapse. USD Index is up another .45% this morning despite already entering the new year at a 12yr high.

The US buck is destroying the lesser fiat garbage currencies. Check Venezuelan Bolivar for a realtime sample of what this looks like. China will devalue moar soon and the silly zerozone currency will dissolve...most likely in 2017. Doubt there's any need to mention the economic disaster that has been ongoing in Japan for the past 25 years.

Gold and Silver would probably be going nuts just now(even in US dollar terms) if bankster cartels didn't have a jackboot on PM exchange rates. Amazing what naked short selling paper contracts can do to control prices of a physical commodity.

Happy 2017 Knights ... Year of the Rooster maybe signals the rise of the Digital / Decentralized future.  The higher powers to be scheduled 2018 as D$-Day decades ago.

--
friendly notice:

ZEIT is on the suggested POS coins by TALK community list
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1718048.msg17203167

feel free to stop by and promote 

[uki]

Talking about the death of petrodollar, here is a very interesting reading, "The Death of The Petrodollar and What Comes After", by Grant Williams: http://www.tfmetalsreport.com/blog/8067/guest-post-death-petrodollar-and-what-comes-after-grant-williams
Yet, I have been reading similar stuff back in 2011 and 2013.

[trnpall]

April ultra low?

[kiklo]

April ultra low?

Hopefully, we will post an exact date when we know it.

 

[stevegreer]

Happy New Year one and all!! I haven't posted here in a while. Been super busy with work, family, and working on my Master's degree. I've been synching up my wallet now for the past couple of days (yeah, I haven't synched in a while). Here's to a very prosperous new year for us all!

[kiklo]

Anyone using that exchange known as BTER.

https://bter.com/article/11868

The following coins will be delisted

DVC, RED, ZET, WDC, PRT, BQC, BTCD, C2, CKC, MAX, FTP,
DGC, DTC, GEMZ, MEC, MINT, MSC, NBT, NODE, NSR, BAY,
NXTTY, QRK, SRC, TBC, UNITY, VRC, VTC, XC, YAC, BLK

We will provide 3 months withdrawal service for all of them.

BTER

Jan. 5, 2017