Biblepay BBP Community Discussion Thread

[tmike]

Reposting here since Rob deleted my post.

*** HUGE CHANGES IN BIBLEPAY TO IMPROVE OUR COMMUNITY AND HELP OUR CREDIBILITY AND CREATE STRENGTH ***



So this all started when one of our fast participants, Andy from LA offered to help with a few things.  Things that resonated with me because we both pray for BiblePay and receive confirmations about issues. 

Who is Andy and who are the fast participants? This makes me feel like the rest of us aren't important to this project at all.

Key Man Risk:  This started with a conversation from one of Andys clients, wanting to get into BiblePay as a whale, but he was afraid that I was the single point of failure.  After showing him the DAO page, many, many changes were put into play.  One being that we are working on an internal plan to remove key-man risk in Phase 1 (that is at the end of this month).  More info will be given on this today.  This will eliminate key-man risk.

This was a problem we have been discussing for a while now but who will also have the keys? Are the changes really going to decentralize BiblePay?

Sanctuary Simplicity:  The whale would not join unless they find a way for a one-click masternode.  In this case, MIP is now creating a script for one-click sanctuaries.  We also reached out to GIN who came through for us for decentralized sancs.

That's great but how many percentage votes is this person going to have?

The problems with the BiblePay foundation are that we were becoming centralized, and "ruled" by only 6 individuals, with governmental systemic risk.  This gave the rest of the community the feeling that their masternode investment voting rights were not being used appropriately by biblepay, the biblepay directors were "better" than everyone else (IE could make legal decisions and trample on the rights of the community).  Arguably, one of the most important issues raised was the governmental risk involved with a centralized foundation.  This was the risk of being a lightning rod for a government to shut down biblepay or force biblepay to add wallet rules that remove anonymity.

Who is complaining? I have heard of no complaints and have asked several people if they had.

As far as Newbie Experience:  As you know we recently saw the no-team requirement poll pass, and the reward level to non-biblepay teams set to 100%.  In the next version of biblepay, we are trying to make it so a brand new user can mine with very little resistance.  This means downloading the wallet, buying the UTXO amount on the exchange, downloading boinc, and clicking "Add me to Rosetta", and then click "Associate".  The next version will also show how many tasks are running on the GUI - giving the user the understanding that the wallet is working (without going through RPC commands).

Having to setup PODC is by far the hardest and causes the most "resistance". Joining Biblepay is more of a issue of Religion and investment profitability and coin stability. I will be very surprised if the change increases the number of miners by a handful.

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[macko20]

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Quote
Quote from: bible_pay on Today at 09:08:45 PM
Quote from: tmike on Today at 07:56:17 PM
Hey everyone!

Please vote on the proposal and le me know what you think.

https://forum.biblepay.org/index.php? (https://forum.biblepay.org/)

And Rob, please don't take this personally, I think a spokesperson would be good for us.


And I think you should take your Hate group, along with yourself to a new community.

Since you apparently don't like BiblePay - and are not forgiving, and are accusing, it's not Christian behavior.

I'll take care of being spokeperson for now.

And we don't need a project management system with huge amounts of overhead - I'll take care of project management.




We need silence to work. I'm disgusted

Reply to this Personal Message here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=pm;sa=send;f=inbox;pmsg=9036710;quote;u=0

[sunk818]

Serve Jesus!

the pot calling the kettle black. This is business as usual. "In Rob We Trust".  

Matthew 7:3-5 English Standard Version (ESV)
3 Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? 4 Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.

[sunk818]

A reply of yours, quoted below, was deleted by the starter of a self-moderated topic. There are no rules of self-moderation, so this deletion cannot be appealed. Do not continue posting in this topic if the topic-starter has requested that you leave.

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*** HUGE CHANGES IN BIBLEPAY TO IMPROVE OUR COMMUNITY AND HELP OUR CREDIBILITY AND CREATE STRENGTH ***

I'm curious why this is not discussed as a proposal? If it is such a huge change, don't you feel such a change merits discussion and a vote?

[sunk818]

A reply of yours, quoted below, was deleted by the starter of a self-moderated topic. There are no rules of self-moderation, so this deletion cannot be appealed. Do not continue posting in this topic if the topic-starter has requested that you leave.

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the biblepay directors were "better" than everyone else (IE could make legal decisions and trample on the rights of the community).

Isn't this already the sentiment and situation? One person owns 82 masternodes to vote on proposals out of ~240 active MNs, means a voting power of 33%.

At least with Foundation 1/6 is 16.66% power or 1/5 is 20% power. Voting power is decentralized which is good for everyone. You actually have to discuss and reach some sort of consensus instead of changes being slammed on your face.

[zthomasz]

hy, i have try to understand about this forum (biblepay) but can't really configure it out could you explain more about it?

Have you been to our website? It's a good place to start ...

www.biblepay.org

There's plenty of info and direction. If you need more help, just let us know.

[sunk818]

If I pay the premiums using a reward based credit card, I would be personally profiting from the transaction.  Given that if (and this is not a price prediction) we hit a valuation of 3 cents, the Orphan Fund would be bringing in about $200,000 a month, this could end up being a very significant amount.  To avoid appearances of, or possibilities of, wrong doing, having the non-profit Foundation handle the transaction from start to finish would be best.

For example, if you paid $28,000 with an American Express, that'd give you $280 if you get 1% cash back. That'd likely be used to "tip" and sponsor a few more children, but its just better to have a non-profit Foundation to avoid any questions.

[sunk818]

One question only. Why do you think he has invested 100-300k usd?

I understand. Early days of any coin... you have early adopter advantage. You don't need to invest as much if a coin is 1 satoshi, right? Masternodes paid out more in Feb 2018 than today, so again early adopter advantage. But with that risk, comes greater rewards. I don't begrudge his earnings for putting his time, energy, and money into the coin.

[sunk818]

If we don't figure out how to stop accusing and name-calling

A reasonable leader can discuss the merits of an idea and not relegate themselves to deleting posts and censoring discussion. We're all adults here -- we can accept strong opinions from each other. When discussion is stifled though, the environment is unwelcoming. If Jesus can eat with sinners, you should be able to entertain all kinds of discussion. If the lead dev treats investors who have "skin in the game" like this, what kind of impression does it give to newcomers to BiblePay?

We're all trying to help poor children as part of what Jesus calls us to do... it just feels like there's unnecessary drama along the way that could be alleviated with a caring ear.

Mark 2:16 When the teachers of the law who were Pharisees saw him eating with the sinners and tax collectors, they asked his disciples: “Why does he eat with tax collectors and sinners?” 17 On hearing this, Jesus said to them, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.”

[zthomasz]

Rob deleted my post (below) in the other forum, so I'm posting it here for the record.

A reply of yours, quoted below, was deleted by the starter of a self-moderated topic. There are no rules of self-moderation, so this deletion cannot be appealed. Do not continue posting in this topic if the topic-starter has requested that you leave.

You can create a new topic if you are unsatisfied with this one. If the topic-starter is scamming, post about it in Scam Accusations.

Serve Jesus!

the pot calling the kettle black. This is business as usual. "In Rob We Trust". 

Matthew 7:3-5 English Standard Version (ESV)
3 Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? 4 Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.

I'm kind of confused by this- does anyone see me accusing or name calling?

All of you in the hate group are attacking the lead dev. 

Haters, I'm just asking you to take a step back from this Christian project, repent and then with a clear conciseness come back and we will forgive you.

I want to be as respectful and as humble as possible. I am confused too.

You just asked us ... "does anyone see me accusing or name calling?" Then in the same post you wrote "Haters, I'm just asking you to take a step back from this Christian project ..."

Again, as respectfully as possible I sincerely want to know something. How can someone call people "Haters" yet not be name-calling or accusing them of hating?

Thank you.

 

[nelsledma]

Welcome, feel free to post what you think about Biblepay here.

Moderators, please let me know if this is the right place for a community discussion thread separate from the announcement thread. We need a place where we can speak freely. Thanks.

*EDIT*
Moderators: Someone down below mentioned that this should be in the Speculations (Altcoins) section, if you think that's right, please move us there if possible without deleting the content. Thank you.

Seems like I’m really missing out on some important stuffs, cause I don’t really know much on what this BiblePay (BBP) is all about, though I just made a research on it and from what I found it’s a charity organization and people come their to donate Bitcoin for helping the sick people or what? I don’t really know how this works, but I saw where they said something about mining of BiblePay, I don’t really understand, hope someone explains this to me.

[SVK Noko]

Welcome, feel free to post what you think about Biblepay here.

Moderators, please let me know if this is the right place for a community discussion thread separate from the announcement thread. We need a place where we can speak freely. Thanks.

*EDIT*
Moderators: Someone down below mentioned that this should be in the Speculations (Altcoins) section, if you think that's right, please move us there if possible without deleting the content. Thank you.

Seems like I’m really missing out on some important stuffs, cause I don’t really know much on what this BiblePay (BBP) is all about, though I just made a research on it and from what I found it’s a charity organization and people come their to donate Bitcoin for helping the sick people or what? I don’t really know how this works, but I saw where they said something about mining of BiblePay, I don’t really understand, hope someone explains this to me.

Im sure ppl here will answer you but in meantime all answers you can find on www.biblepay.org directly as well.

[SVK Noko]

Rob deleted my post (below) in the other forum, so I'm posting it here for the record.

A reply of yours, quoted below, was deleted by the starter of a self-moderated topic. There are no rules of self-moderation, so this deletion cannot be appealed. Do not continue posting in this topic if the topic-starter has requested that you leave.

You can create a new topic if you are unsatisfied with this one. If the topic-starter is scamming, post about it in Scam Accusations.

Serve Jesus!

the pot calling the kettle black. This is business as usual. "In Rob We Trust". 

Matthew 7:3-5 English Standard Version (ESV)
3 Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? 4 Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.

I'm kind of confused by this- does anyone see me accusing or name calling?

All of you in the hate group are attacking the lead dev. 

Haters, I'm just asking you to take a step back from this Christian project, repent and then with a clear conciseness come back and we will forgive you.

I want to be as respectful and as humble as possible. I am confused too.

You just asked us ... "does anyone see me accusing or name calling?" Then in the same post you wrote "Haters, I'm just asking you to take a step back from this Christian project ..."

Again, as respectfully as possible I sincerely want to know something. How can someone call people "Haters" yet not be name-calling or accusing them of hating?

Thank you.

Im glad that we have this thread. Ppl can see things in the right light.

[slovakia]

casper77 biblepay is noob.......when we started this project,we had to mine pow.....stop listen him ...

run.
1.starts mining solo or purepool for automatic podcupdates, STOP USING POOL.BIBLEPAY=it looks like my didactic M or zx spectrum 48k graphic skin from 1989,horrible .... his pool would win best amateurs skin in da world  POW
2.starts boinc on machines and add email+pass of rosetta or wcg PODC

TOGO and ROB=BIBLEPAY is profesional nebulizers,still changing things,earns on shit proposals,they create the conditions best for them


last months is orphans our the ball on the leg ... all prices of BBP was dump by sponsoring this orphans

im sorry for new users, they must have total mess from all= pow,podc,rosetta,wcg all

[slovakia]

ANSWER from NANO LEDGE S HW WALLET about BBP

There are a lot of altcoins and as Ledger has limited resources it cannot integrate them all. The conditions to integrate an altcoin are one of the following: - massive general support and high market cap (ex: Ethereum) - development sponsored by the coin's community (ex: Litecoin) - direct developer integration using Ledger's SDK

For information, the "altcoin package" costs 78,000 EUR and includes: - development of altcoin's Nano S / Blue app - altcoin support added to the Ledger Wallet Chrome app - altcoin explorer API development for the backend - 1,000 Ledger Nano S unit with altcoin's logo laser engraving

We can also do only the firmware/software part without the 1,000 Nano S for 20,000 EUR.

This price is valid only for blockchains inheriting from already supported coins (Bitcoin, Peercoin, Ethereum...) If your blockchain is 100% original, then pricing can be much higher.

In any case it's best to join our Slack http://slack.ledger.co to discuss integration with our engineers.

[zthomasz]

Now that we've spent a few days discussing the masternode-vote-limit issue, I suggest we propose a very simple solution for Rob to consider:


"We believe that Sanctuary owners should agree to cast no more than five (5) votes on any proposal regardless of how many Sanctuaries they own or control. The only exception is when a proposal violates a voter's conscience, in which case the voter will post the reason in a public forum prior to placing the vote."

EDIT: Let me know of any scenarios where a 5-vote limit might have a negative impact on the current MN governance process.

EDIT: We should also consider an exception in situations where a whale ignores our 5-vote limit. In that case Rob could use as much of his voting power as needed to offset any abuse.

[sunk818]

My understanding is that ipfs is the groundwork for the dahf (hedge fund) which I thought was a variation of a retirement 401k type fund. I'm not sure. Or it could be one of Rob does whatever he wants projects. He's the lead dev so he wants/has that perogative.

You feel the road map features should be first priority?

As for news and updates, Rob has taken away edit rights on the wiki (at least myself and several others) so we can't update the information. Frankly, mediawiki kinda sucks to work with so I'm glad I don't have access.

There's biblepay.org (official) and third party efforts like purepool, biblepay-central , etc
You want more content on BiblePay.org? What about this forum, Reddit, Twitter, discord?

Please do not just make things up SunK, thats why our communication is bad-  and posts end up getting deleted - and frankly, in a non Christian disagreement.
Let's take a step back and forgive each other first.  Next, let me explain what irks me:  a person who "guesses" and states it as fact, on a public forum (this continually happens with your account and I rashly react by deleting the post).

So jumping ahead to the wiki, I did not remove edit rights because I'm a dictator, I removed them because Slovakia defaced the front page.  Hopefully you can understand that after someone defaces the actual investor info page, we need to control access.  I have given edit to anyone who wants to make an intelligent edit Like Jaap and Togo.   "Mediawiki sucks to work with"?  Lets instead glorify the benefits that opensource software gives us.  Lets use what we have until we are a $10 mil organization then we can vote on something that everyone likes, or maybe everyone does like wiki in general.

I know I havent shared a lot of info regarding the DAHF vision.  Frankly its because I put a lot of hours into the proof of concept, got it working, and the long e-mails from the focus group and SEC attorney are frankly so long and technical, it would make most people turn away from this project.  I think at this point it is not going in the roadmap- lets keep it simple and build a stronger foundation without DAHF.  Let's be positive - and frame questions that you BELIEVE are negatives as : Hey Rob, I THINK we have a problem with this, can we do this better.    Then I reply and tell you if I agree or not- I would not say this if 80% of the time the other person doesn't understand that part of a feature exists because their solution isnt solving what they think.

I'm not sure what you mean by "forgive each other". I don't recall receiving a personal apology from you. Maybe you "forgive each other" without apologizing to the other person?

If I say something is my understanding and it is incorrect, you're welcome to correct with kindness. I was trying to defend why you keep going off the roadmap with random features.

Re: Wiki. You gave me edit rights, then took it away as soon after found disagreement with what I said, I wonder why?

[thesnat21]

Wow Thomas,  didn't realize you had posts deleted too...

People in Sin usually don't want it brought up, or to face it unfortunately.

Rob deleted my post (below) in the other forum, so I'm posting it here for the record.

Serve Jesus!

the pot calling the kettle black. This is business as usual. "In Rob We Trust". 

Matthew 7:3-5 English Standard Version (ESV)
3 Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? 4 Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.

I'm kind of confused by this- does anyone see me accusing or name calling?

All of you in the hate group are attacking the lead dev. 

Haters, I'm just asking you to take a step back from this Christian project, repent and then with a clear conciseness come back and we will forgive you.

I want to be as respectful and as humble as possible. I am confused too.

You just asked us ... "does anyone see me accusing or name calling?" Then in the same post you wrote "Haters, I'm just asking you to take a step back from this Christian project ..."

Again, as respectfully as possible I sincerely want to know something. How can someone call people "Haters" yet not be name-calling or accusing them of hating?

Thank you.

[zthomasz]

Wow Thomas,  didn't realize you had posts deleted too...

People in Sin usually don't want it brought up, or to face it unfortunately.

Rob deleted my post (below) in the other forum, so I'm posting it here for the record.

Serve Jesus!

the pot calling the kettle black. This is business as usual. "In Rob We Trust". 

Matthew 7:3-5 English Standard Version (ESV)
3 Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? 4 Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.

I'm kind of confused by this- does anyone see me accusing or name calling?

All of you in the hate group are attacking the lead dev. 

Haters, I'm just asking you to take a step back from this Christian project, repent and then with a clear conciseness come back and we will forgive you.

I want to be as respectful and as humble as possible. I am confused too.

You just asked us ... "does anyone see me accusing or name calling?" Then in the same post you wrote "Haters, I'm just asking you to take a step back from this Christian project ..."

Again, as respectfully as possible I sincerely want to know something. How can someone call people "Haters" yet not be name-calling or accusing them of hating?

Thank you.

I don't take it personally. We're all tempted to react negatively when someone questions our behavior. In these situations Agape/love is the only way to create peace and unity. This sets us apart from the world and insures our ultimate success.

Jesus completely understood this. He said “So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.”

[SVK Noko]

When will pool.biblepay.org become a normal website?? It is something terrible and user total unfriendly