Biblepay BBP Community Discussion Thread

[inblue]

I notice it seems like a small number of people are responsible for the vast majority of the posts, which are very technically detailed, and I'm not sure who the audience most of you are speaking to.
...
Shouldn't there be more diverse activity for a 500+ page thread?

Actually there are around 800 pages when you count the old thread. Very interesting observation! I agree, this is something very strange for this coin... Other coins of this market cap have many many times fewer posts, and much bigger coins have a lot of diversity in the posts, from a lot of different users. So BiblePay seems almost like a cult of loyal followers, but very few of them, but they are very active. The coin getting more and more complicated only helps to further isolate the cult from potential new members. But I still believe there are a lot of lurkers who only ever read and not post, but they read often and follow the developments.

I'm not sure how to contribute on the main ANN thread. It feels like there's no room there.

Could you elaborate on this? How is there no room in that thread? Is it because of Rob who instills fear of posting, or something else?

Still, it feels like there's a gap somewhere, but I can't put my finger on it..

Well said, I actually feel that way too, I just can't understand what I'm feeling, but this phrase of yours "there's a gap somewhere" solidified my thoughts. I think so too, but I also don't know what it is. It's maybe related to what I wrote in the first paragraph above. I follow many projects too, and neither of them feels even remotely like BiblePay.

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[secoccular]

thesnat21, thanks for the response. I agree it can be a vicious circle. I don't want to post there because the environment doesn't seem aligned with what I'd post. But if I don't post, then I can't help change the environment. I'll have to meditate on this more, maybe I need to be the change I want to see. For now, this thread feels more open to these kinds of discussion without concern for censorship based on a single person's perspective. The censorship for the perception of not being "positive" about the project does bug me, especially when the person doing the censoring often goes on the attack themselves?

I notice it seems like a small number of people are responsible for the vast majority of the posts, which are very technically detailed, and I'm not sure who the audience most of you are speaking to.
...
Shouldn't there be more diverse activity for a 500+ page thread?

Actually there are around 800 pages when you count the old thread. Very interesting observation! I agree, this is something very strange for this coin... Other coins of this market cap have many many times fewer posts, and much bigger coins have a lot of diversity in the posts, from a lot of different users. So BiblePay seems almost like a cult of loyal followers, but very few of them, but they are very active. The coin getting more and more complicated only helps to further isolate the cult from potential new members. But I still believe there are a lot of lurkers who only ever read and not post, but they read often and follow the developments.

I'm not sure how to contribute on the main ANN thread. It feels like there's no room there.

Could you elaborate on this? How is there no room in that thread? Is it because of Rob who instills fear of posting, or something else?

Still, it feels like there's a gap somewhere, but I can't put my finger on it..

Well said, I actually feel that way too, I just can't understand what I'm feeling, but this phrase of yours "there's a gap somewhere" solidified my thoughts. I think so too, but I also don't know what it is. It's maybe related to what I wrote in the first paragraph above. I follow many projects too, and neither of them feels even remotely like BiblePay.

Well, I think the word cult is too strong, and not exactly appropriate. It just seems with a lack of diversity, things kind of become a self-feeding closed loop. This has been my observation throughout life, not limited to BBP. When I read the main thread, it's mostly reports from "worker bees", what the main core of people are working on. But I'm having trouble piecing it all together into a cohesive whole.

I don't have any problem with Rob, and have a deep feeling of wanting to help him, to help the project (I do wish he'd chill out some). It's hard when you take the mantle of responsibility for something. It can lead to all kinds of control issues. Getting a project to thrive always means letting more people get involved, which means letting go to some extent. It's difficult, especially for IT folks, and when you personally care about the outcome. This is where surrender to God becomes very helpful, like "I don't want this project to succeed, without divine approval, and I can't know what that is ahead of time." That's how I see it.

I thought about that "gap" more. What I see is, as you said, is an intense concentration of posts by the core folks, and then what feels like a moat before it gets to people like me. It kind of feels like being on the outside. You need the core for functioning, but you also need a bigger involvement to grow.  It's vital to a project's (any project's) health to bring in new people. Being on the "inside" all the time, it's too easy to forget one's "beginner mind". It will actually be impossible to retain this being very involved in the project, which is why it's vital to always have newbies, and not deride them for needing "hand-holding". It's hard to account for how damaging that is, or how many people just walk away after getting the feeling of not being honored and wanted.

I'm still new enough to have that kind of mind, and that's what I bring to each of the projects I'm involved with. If I can't succinctly explain what a project is to my parents, or someone at the supermarket without the jargon like PoBH and such, that's a sign that it's going to be hard to grow without more focus. I do writing on the side, and it's important to have an "elevator pitch", a 20 second explanation for the endeavor. I would say for BBP, it should just be the fundamental hope to bring genuine Christian values to cryptocurrency. It doesn't matter if it's orphans or widows, that's not the heart of it. It's the hope. I think that gets obscured somewhat. (see comment about use cases at bottom).

Personally, I think the Dash model doesn't help. It seems to me to be very non-democratic, and difficult to interface with the project's values as I seem them. But I realize that's already set in stone. Some other projects don't have such formal duties, and when it's time for an exchange, it's just asked that people donate crypto when interested in a new exchange. It seems more inclusive and free-flowing, and community-driven. And if people don't want to fund it, then it doesn't happen. Nobody takes ultimate responsibility. Here, it seems very formal (maybe the project's size needs that?), and like BBP is employment for some. I just can't wrap my mind around things like IT and marketing budgets. They're needed, but on a continual basis every month? It's as if BBP is an employment opportunity, which I think looks odd from the outside--the haves and have-nots. The expenses always seem tied to the same few people always spinning off new ideas that cost bbp to implement. Sure, Rob says step up if you want to be involved, but frankly it's not a very open environment at present and I question to what degree he means that. And I'm not sure the core group will allow the space for that to happen, which can really hamper long-term growth. A project this size should have at least a dozen people cranking out code, which would allow for more volunteer opportunities and lessen the "budget".

Thanks for your feedback and attention. I wouldn't put this much thought into it if I didn't see a lot of promise for this coin.

Edit: One thing I think BBP is missing is use cases for the coin. It kind of functions as a currency for the core group, but why would your average Joe or Jane Smith use the coin, other than as an investment? It kind of seems like the coin's use, outside the core group, is lost. This is a big problem for a lot of crypto, but really apparent here.

[thesnat21]

I notice it seems like a small number of people are responsible for the vast majority of the posts, which are very technically detailed, and I'm not sure who the audience most of you are speaking to.
...
Shouldn't there be more diverse activity for a 500+ page thread?

Actually there are around 800 pages when you count the old thread. Very interesting observation! I agree, this is something very strange for this coin... Other coins of this market cap have many many times fewer posts, and much bigger coins have a lot of diversity in the posts, from a lot of different users. So BiblePay seems almost like a cult of loyal followers, but very few of them, but they are very active. The coin getting more and more complicated only helps to further isolate the cult from potential new members. But I still believe there are a lot of lurkers who only ever read and not post, but they read often and follow the developments.

I'm not sure how to contribute on the main ANN thread. It feels like there's no room there.

Could you elaborate on this? How is there no room in that thread? Is it because of Rob who instills fear of posting, or something else?

Still, it feels like there's a gap somewhere, but I can't put my finger on it..

Well said, I actually feel that way too, I just can't understand what I'm feeling, but this phrase of yours "there's a gap somewhere" solidified my thoughts. I think so too, but I also don't know what it is. It's maybe related to what I wrote in the first paragraph above. I follow many projects too, and neither of them feels even remotely like BiblePay.

Interesting observations..   I'm curious about this "gap" and what can be done to close it... 

Site note: I appreciate you posting on the Proof of Giving proposal on the bbp forums inblue

I think all these discussions are important, and I appreciate the discussion and trying to track down what is going on.

I agree we have a loyal following,  but need to do more to bring new folks in.

I don't believe we try to be overly technical..  But this is the curse of IT as well I suppose haha, it tends to spill out in "normal" conversations as well.

[thesnat21]

.

secoccular: I replied to your post on the main thread,  I believe you bring valuable input and perspective.

Inblue: I appreciate your contribution here as well and see this is a much more beneficial discussion than previous,  please join us as well!

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2388064.msg48069526#msg48069526

[togoshigekata]

I offer BiblePay users a 2nd Forum Option, Discourse:
https://discourse.biblepaycoin.org/

Understanding Discourse Trust Levels
https://blog.discourse.org/2018/06/understanding-discourse-trust-levels/

FAQ/Guidelines
https://discourse.biblepaycoin.org/t/faq-guidelines/5

NOTE: Currently Ive set Trust Level "Member" the ability to post anonymously

I have also setup the ability to login using Google, Facebook, Twitter and Github,
so users do not have to create another account, they can use one they already have!

Im not sure if it this forum will get used, I dont think the timing is that great,
was just experimenting again, please let me know any feedback!

[secoccular]

I offer BiblePay users a 2nd Forum Option, Discourse:
https://discourse.biblepaycoin.org/

Understanding Discourse Trust Levels
https://blog.discourse.org/2018/06/understanding-discourse-trust-levels/

FAQ/Guidelines
https://discourse.biblepaycoin.org/t/faq-guidelines/5

NOTE: Currently Ive set Trust Level "Member" the ability to post anonymously

I have also setup the ability to login using Google, Facebook, Twitter and Github,
so users do not have to create another account, they can use one they already have!

Im not sure if it this forum will get used, I dont think the timing is that great,
was just experimenting again, please let me know any feedback!

Cool stuff. You can't know ahead of time if it will get used, but just making the effort is good. I'm going to be taking a step back from this project for a bit and let some of the dust settle. It's a little too dramatic for my taste, and there are other projects to work on without so much contention.

[thesnat21]

Cool stuff. You can't know ahead of time if it will get used, but just making the effort is good. I'm going to be taking a step back from this project for a bit and let some of the dust settle. It's a little too dramatic for my taste, and there are other projects to work on without so much contention.

Understandable, don't forget us though    

[secoccular]

Cool stuff. You can't know ahead of time if it will get used, but just making the effort is good. I'm going to be taking a step back from this project for a bit and let some of the dust settle. It's a little too dramatic for my taste, and there are other projects to work on without so much contention.

Understandable, don't forget us though    

,

I'll still lurk. In retrospect, the error was mine. I took the term community-driven to mean the community decides, not the community does the legwork for the monarch.

There are some really interesting projects out there, with everyone pushing in the same direction, that are actually increasing in market value and trading volume despite the bear market. So I know it can be done, if there's clarity.

Here's hoping BBP will become one of those, with a better use case and more internal cohesion. Best of the best of luck.

[thesnat21]

I'll still lurk. In retrospect, the error was mine. I took the term community-driven to mean the community decides, not the community does the legwork for the monarch.

There are some really interesting projects out there, with everyone pushing in the same direction, that are actually increasing in market value and trading volume despite the bear market. So I know it can be done, if there's clarity.

Here's hoping BBP will become one of those, with a better use case and more internal cohesion. Best of the best of luck.

To be fair,  there is a limit to available time..  So those with more people working towards a goal will have better luck finding it.

[togoshigekata]

I offer BiblePay users a 2nd Forum Option, Discourse:
https://discourse.biblepaycoin.org/

Understanding Discourse Trust Levels
https://blog.discourse.org/2018/06/understanding-discourse-trust-levels/

FAQ/Guidelines
https://discourse.biblepaycoin.org/t/faq-guidelines/5

NOTE: Currently Ive set Trust Level "Member" the ability to post anonymously

I have also setup the ability to login using Google, Facebook, Twitter and Github,
so users do not have to create another account, they can use one they already have!

Im not sure if it this forum will get used, I dont think the timing is that great,
was just experimenting again, please let me know any feedback!

Cool stuff. You can't know ahead of time if it will get used, but just making the effort is good.

Thanks!

Installation was pretty smooth, they use a docker image, can host it on a cheap cloud server $5/month
https://github.com/discourse/discourse/blob/master/docs/INSTALL-cloud.md

Anyone could run this!

[Cryptoalt1990]

Cool stuff. You can't know ahead of time if it will get used, but just making the effort is good. I'm going to be taking a step back from this project for a bit and let some of the dust settle. It's a little too dramatic for my taste, and there are other projects to work on without so much contention.

Understandable, don't forget us though    

Would you mind sharing the names of these projects in PM? Thanks.

[sunk818]

I do writing on the side, and it's important to have an "elevator pitch", a 20 second explanation for the endeavor. I would say for BBP, it should just be the fundamental hope to bring genuine Christian values to cryptocurrency. It doesn't matter if it's orphans or widows, that's not the heart of it. It's the hope. I think that gets obscured somewhat.

You have a way of distilling what this coin is about. Many people think of BBO as a charity coin, but a coin that promotes Christian values allows more flexibility. An altcoin that promotes Christian values could be a charity coin or something else. Marketing BBP as promoting Christian values could have a name change and could pivot away from being a charity coin if financially necessary.

[sunk818]

A reply of yours, quoted below, was deleted by the starter of a self-moderated topic. There are no rules of self-moderation, so this deletion cannot be appealed. Do not continue posting in this topic if the topic-starter has requested that you leave.

You can create a new topic if you are unsatisfied with this one. If the topic-starter is scamming, post about it in Scam Accusations.

Just to bash us and lower our spirits?  Obviously you and Sun are doing the same thing - its not to help the community but to hurt the community - which hurts our investors and our orphans in the long run.

You're so socially awkward you wouldn't have a clue about my intentions. Please stop making an ass out of yourself in public. I make a jab about pool.biblepay.org being ugly but functional, and you react with a nuclear bomb. I guess we know who the weak person here is.

@thesnat21 because you asked, I will provide some details:
1) could we put CPID as part of the output for exec totalrac? We always ask for CPID so it is good data to include. PoDC is here and not going away for a few months at least.
2) it'll be better if pool.biblepay.org could stop using Frame Navigation (so 1990s) and use something modern
3) there's a weird CSS/style bug. when you refresh (F5) the background goes completely white and left navigation changes.
4) QT wallet - whoever did the bezaleel theme -- can they come back and pretty up the UI? layout, buttons, spacing, etc.
we really have to get away from this right-click non-sense. everything is right-click to do something... put buttons on the screen, so people know their choices

[sunk818]

A reply of yours, quoted below, was deleted by the starter of a self-moderated topic. There are no rules of self-moderation, so this deletion cannot be appealed. Do not continue posting in this topic if the topic-starter has requested that you leave.

You can create a new topic if you are unsatisfied with this one. If the topic-starter is scamming, post about it in Scam Accusations.

https://forum.biblepay.org/tools/podcstatus.php?cpid=62bc04999dfba69e6872abf5a903c482

Can someone please explain why my payout is slowly but surely dropping?  My RAC has been increasing so this doesn't make much sense to me.  Thanks!

Back in December total team RAC was around 9M (9 million). I checked it is now 14M. Its been climbing. Everyone's payments has dropped -- its not just you. I went from 10k BBP to 6k BBP daily. Your RAC is a percentage of the Total Team RAC. Just to maintain your daily BBP, your RAC would need to increase from 5k to ~7-8k RAC. So, maybe 1500 more RAC towards WCG at least.

Since BiblePay team requirement was dropped, GridCoin Pool's RAC got added to Total Team RAC. the pool is cranking out 3M RAC:
pool1: https://forum.biblepay.org/tools/podcstatus.php?cpid=163f049997e8a2dee054d69a7720bf05
pool2: https://forum.biblepay.org/tools/podcstatus.php?cpid=a914eba952be5dfcf73d926b508fd5fa
pool3: https://forum.biblepay.org/tools/podcstatus.php?cpid=163f049997e8a2dee054d69a7720bf05

grcpool just merge mines BiblePay, sells it, and they call it a day. they had a poll and the GRC community wanted BBP sold and not staked. So, not enough community backing to stake BBP. I don't know if anyone at BiblePay team bothered to talk to grcpool operator. Overall, I think removing team requirement backfired and BiblePay's marketing point about "cancer research" lost a lot of steam.  The sell pressure from grcpool means charities will support fewer children because the price of BBP is so low. BiblePay will keep dropping until it matches GRC price in terms of payout per RAC.

So, I really hope and pray. If it is God's desire that Proof of Giving (PoG) succeed, let it be so.

[sunk818]

A reply of yours, quoted below, was deleted by the starter of a self-moderated topic. There are no rules of self-moderation, so this deletion cannot be appealed. Do not continue posting in this topic if the topic-starter has requested that you leave.

You can create a new topic if you are unsatisfied with this one. If the topic-starter is scamming, post about it in Scam Accusations.

Other issues, some large PODC whales have jumped on:
https://forum.biblepay.org/tools/podcstatus.php?cpid=ce2085bf9764d2a8e9a3935264a09700
https://forum.biblepay.org/tools/podcstatus.php?cpid=6af004636eed660b5d64f723e78f89d7
https://forum.biblepay.org/tools/podcstatus.php?cpid=d08019cf41058e19f6dd1177d90c9111
https://forum.biblepay.org/tools/podcstatus.php?cpid=a66b4c7102053082f83269d8e9769ad9

Yikes, that's a lot of AMD Ryzen 1700x on the first URL. That's a lot of new RAC. I just thought grcpool1-2-3 were contributing. There was that guy from Turkey, but I see a lot of new RAC coming on. At least some of them have to stake BBP outside of a pool.

[sunk818]

Rob = hypocrite.

A reply of yours, quoted below, was deleted by the starter of a self-moderated topic. There are no rules of self-moderation, so this deletion cannot be appealed. Do not continue posting in this topic if the topic-starter has requested that you leave.

You can create a new topic if you are unsatisfied with this one. If the topic-starter is scamming, post about it in Scam Accusations.

@SunK, please do not make posts here that violate the rules in the OP post.  You have posted with swear words and directly attacked me in an unwarranted way - that breaks more than one of the rules.  (Otherwise I will start the ban process with the bitcointalk mods) - you are now considered a Troll - along with SVK Noko.

I don't know how many times you've violated the rules of the OP post. I do not post swear words -- I just post truth about your character. Do you see anyone disagreeing with my assessment?

So, we've gone from me the pool ugly but working to you calling me a troll and all things in between. Does a troll answer questions on social media? Does a troll participate and give feedback on testnet?

[SVK Noko]

Same here. Weak dev is deleting constructive posts again. Welcome back in totalitarian forum.

A reply of yours, quoted below, was deleted by the starter of a self-moderated topic. There are no rules of self-moderation, so this deletion cannot be appealed. Do not continue posting in this topic if the topic-starter has requested that you leave.

You can create a new topic if you are unsatisfied with this one. If the topic-starter is scamming, post about it in Scam Accusations.

No, I dont - thats why I asked.  A screenshot does not tell me what the original value is - it tells me what was on the screen in the first shot.....

Please start behaving in a more respectful way. 

I don't have a theme selected. Just for thoroughness, I tried no theme selected, BiblePay, or Dark. It doesn't matter... F5 (refresh) brings up a blank background.

I also ordered $15 subway gift card for 46,750 BBP. Let's see how that goes.

I wouldn't mind if $25 Amazon gift card eDelivery is made an option.

Please test f5 in the pool now (using either theme) - I believe the problem is solved for good.

Wow, its gotten even worse. The top of the page is blank and you have to scroll a full page down to see the white background.

Same here, terrible. I told my collegue to test it on Mac OS, with Chrome same result as in win, with Safari it looks "ok".

[secoccular]

The sign of a healthy community is its ability to absorb and process dissension.

There are two ways I know of to enable this. One, is for the community to embrace different viewpoints, and realize the value of perspectives from all--whether dev, investor, casual interested parties (easier said than done)

The second way is to stamp out any differing perspectives, and whittle down the numbers to only the most staunch of true believers, at the cost of diversity. This path is often a downward spiral, as the community has no way to meaningfully affect the coin's path, and the leaders are no longer listening. It can reach levels that appear totalitarian.

The key, and I have no idea how to do this, is to get the leadership a (A) little thicker-skinned (B) and the community communicating in more helpful ways. Those two seem to go hand in hand. If one fails, they both do.

I will not go down the sink just singing the praises of BBP. If BBP is so fragile that any criticism is harmful, then we have a big problem. A strong project can take the criticism in stride, even if it's crude.


Honestly, I wish the lead dev was spending more time fixing existing code, and a lot less time defending BBP against perceived attacks. It doesn't help, and just makes the whole project seem immature (feedback I've gotten before).

Nobody needs to defend BBP. If any criticism is seen as a slight against potential future investors, we've got a bigger problem.

I guess it will come down to, do we value of egos so much that the accusations and infighting (from both "sides") can't be let go of? Or do we realize as Christians, we need to just focus on the coin, and keep our feelings a little more to the side? And can everybody do it?

[616westwarmoth]

Don't forget, the community page is only lightly moderated (mostly against profanity and objectively damaging speech).

So by and large, your posts won't be deleted here.   Biblepay has a lot of potential and the dev is certainly responsive to public pressure when its just not an outright attack.

Discuss, debate and improve.  Accept the good the dev has done and accept his faults as well.  Look for solutions and know the dev is most responsive to highly detailed highly solutions that have been implemented already and shown to work.  So if you can code, bang around in the code (it's open) and see if you can fix anything.   Good luck!

[sunk818]

Don't forget, the community page is only lightly moderated (mostly against profanity and objectively damaging speech).

So by and large, your posts won't be deleted here.   Biblepay has a lot of potential and the dev is certainly responsive to public pressure when its just not an outright attack.

Discuss, debate and improve.  Accept the good the dev has done and accept his faults as well.  Look for solutions and know the dev is most responsive to highly detailed highly solutions that have been implemented already and shown to work.  So if you can code, bang around in the code (it's open) and see if you can fix anything.   Good luck!

A reply has been posted to a topic you are watching by zthomasz.

Quote from: bible_pay on Today at 01:34:21 PM
Please try to be less argumentative and prideful, I realize you are trying to prove your point at any cost but its not about "you or me". 


Truthfully 616WestWarmoth doesn't come across as either argumentative or prideful. 

He doesn't spread fear, uncertainty and doubt. He respectfully contributes to the discussion and clearly articulates his position. He asks intelligent questions and gives intelligent responses. He doesn't appear to be trying to prove his point at any cost. In fact it sounds as if he is trying his best to help BiblePay succeed. I wish we had 10,000 more like him on our team.

Imagine how many orphans we could sponsor.

Quote from: zthomasz on Today at 01:12:14 AM
Quote from: bible_pay on February 18, 2019, 06:34:21 PM

Please try to be less argumentative and prideful, I realize you are trying to prove your point at any cost but its not about "you or me". 

Truthfully 616WestWarmoth doesn't come across as either argumentative or prideful. 

He doesn't spread fear, uncertainty and doubt. He respectfully contributes to the discussion and clearly articulates his position. He asks intelligent questions and gives intelligent responses. He doesn't appear to be trying to prove his point at any cost. In fact it sounds as if he is trying his best to help BiblePay succeed. I wish we had 10,000 more like him on our team.

Imagine how many orphans we could sponsor.

Thanks!  Maybe some day I will earn enough respect for you to stick up for me when I'm being bashed or sworn at.