ICBIT Derivatives Market (USD/BTC futures trading) - LIVE

[Fireball]

Now there is a very surprising order in my account.

...and now that order shows up as "filled" and remaining == 0, but my position balance hasn't changed, its still at -55
(I did hit refresh and I even logged out and in again)

Indeed it was a minor problem accidentally introduced yesterday during update. What happened is that your orders list did not get updated and indicated that you owned order id 2, when in reality this was another person's order. Of course, you could not do anything with it (it was not yours), but you could view it.

This problem is resolved now, and an integrity checker is now in place which would occasionally check and report such situations in future (though they should not occur anymore, but better safe than.. you know .

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[Ichthyo]

since (probably) yesterday, something doesn't look allright with my trading log in ICBIT.s



This history view shows several "sell" entries. But I'm sure I didn't create any of them, because

• I wasn't online at that time
• I am short and rather tend to buy back

On a related issue: I did indeed place "buy" orders in that range. Most of them disappeared from my orders list. Yet my total balance of open contracts didn't change.


maybe I don't understand those entries correct, or maybe some entries got mixed up with other accounts?

[Fireball]

maybe I don't understand those entries correct, or maybe some entries got mixed up with other accounts?

I sent a detailed PM with raw logs, however I couldn't find any problem. As for so-called "mix up", that was a one time order representation problem which is definitly fixed now, and furthermore, it did not affect the trading history, it affected only live view of a user's orders list.

[Ichthyo]

On the "exchange tab", there shows a new instrument called "DB.RCLMR". The Input fields are labeled "Price per one bond in BTC".

Any explanation?

[DeepBit]

On the "exchange tab", there shows a new instrument called "DB.RCLMR". The Input fields are labeled "Price per one bond in BTC".

Any explanation?

This security will be used for pre-orders of our ASIC miner.

[Ragnar17]

This might be a pretty dumb question, but how can you tell what date the futures expire?

Also, are there futures contracts with different expiration dates (ones with longer or shorter durations)?
If not that is something you should look into because that would be awesome.

[[Tycho]]

This might be a pretty dumb question, but how can you tell what date the futures expire?

Click on the contract specification link - at the right side of instrument selector.

Settlement date for BTCUSD-12.12 will be 15.12.2012

[Ragnar17]

ok thanks thats what I thought...Multiple contracts would be really nice though

[Stephen Gornick]

Why are the buy and sell prices so "sticky"?

The BTC/USD spot market just dropped 15% but the buy and sell for the BUZ2 contracts dropped only a few percent ... (sell dropped from $13.5 to $13.3, and buy droped from $12.6 to $12.3 roughly)



Sell  Price    Buy
  1   13.57
  3   13.5  
 70   13.4  
100   13.39
  1   13.3  
      12.31    10
      12.3     30
      12.03    20
      12.02    50
      12       54

Range 11.6055 - 14.1845


Just to make sure I understand... so let's say  I sell one BUZ2 for $12.31 and have -1 contract.

And currently the spot price is $9.75.  Le'ts say the spot price doesn't move ... the spot price sits at exactly $9.75 until December 15th when BUZ2 expires.

Holding this BUZ2 through settlement then, does that mean I would get bought at $9.75?   (or am I only receiving the daily variation margin transactions ... which, in this case are $0 because I'm using the unlikely scenario where BTC/USD doesn't move up or down between now and expiration).

[Fireball]

Why are the buy and sell prices so "sticky"?

Well, this situation is well known in "bigger" future markets too - contango or backwardation situation. And it's quite normal for a futures to be in either contango or backwardation most of the time.
It means that the majority of participating traders (be it humans or bots) are expecting the exchange rate to be rouhgly at $12, and today's sell-off on the spot market is a temporary event.

Of course, majority may very well be wrong.

Holding this BUZ2 through settlement then, does that mean I would get bought at $9.75?

Yes, that's right.

[toffoo]

Hi,

I just want to confirm that I am understanding something correctly here:

Is there any way from the Web Client to view trading history, high-low, last, volume, open interest, etc. for the futures contract?

I see a nice graph there beside the order book on the Futures tab page, which is labeled "Chart (BUZ2)", but it looks like that is actually the historical prices of the underlying cash exchange market (from ICBIT's market only).

Thanks!

ps: the UTC time at the top of the page given by your server seems a minute or two fast

[Fireball]

Is there any way from the Web Client to view trading history, high-low, last, volume, open interest, etc. for the futures contract?

Yes, the work on providing realtime chart of the actual OHLC data is already on the way and will be deployed soon. As for historical data export, this is going to be the next step.

Thanks!

ps: the UTC time at the top of the page given by your server seems a minute or two fast

Thanks, the time should be synced to NTP, I will doublecheck to be sure.

[Ichthyo]

Just to make sure I understand... so let's say  I sell one BUZ2 for $12.31 and have -1 contract.

And currently the spot price is $9.75.  Le'ts say the spot price doesn't move ... the spot price sits at exactly $9.75 until December 15th when BUZ2 expires.

Holding this BUZ2 through settlement then, does that mean I would get bought at $9.75?   (or am I only receiving the daily variation margin transactions ... which, in this case are $0 because I'm using the unlikely scenario where BTC/USD doesn't move up or down between now and expiration).

Good point.
How would that "settlement" in this hypothetical case be processed then?
Would you just "force down" the futures rate at 15.Dec. to $9.75 and thus Stephen would earn the variation margin?
Or is there any other "real" settlement mechanism in place, which would be triggered at 15.Dec, when the BUZ2 is due?

just a question out of curiosity...
Thanks

[Fireball]

Good point.
How would that "settlement" in this hypothetical case be processed then?
Would you just "force down" the futures rate at 15.Dec. to $9.75 and thus Stephen would earn the variation margin?
Or is there any other "real" settlement mechanism in place, which would be triggered at 15.Dec, when the BUZ2 is due?

just a question out of curiosity...
Thanks

1. Yes, the mechanism would be "real", which means trading will stop, Last Price will be set to that calculated according to the contract specification, then all open positions will be closed using that price to calculate variation margin.
2. Because of that, trading participants will try to "arbitrage" this fact and will move the price quite close to that value before trading stops.

[Stephen Gornick]

Last Price will be set to that calculated according to the contract specification,

And the BUZ2 contract shows:

Settlement: Positions are settled based on the volume weighted average rate of USD/BTC on the exchange with the most average monthly volume (for the month of contract settlement) during the contract settlement day by transferring variation margin between contract holders.

 - https://icbit.se/BUZ2

So if Mt. Gox remains as the largest market the  "Last Price" would be the 24 hour volume weighted average price (VWAP) from Mt. Gox on Dec 15, 2012.  (I'm assuming that is 24 hour VWAP .. the BUZ contract is ambiguous as to which time period.)


I'm having a little trouble figuring out a few details.

The resulting price is written in your "Balances" window,

Also, after clearing at 20:00 GMT everyday, if you have open positions, a variation margin is transferred depending on the market price to your account

I'm trying to learn the calculation for variation margin, specifically which prices it uses.  The contract shows:

Variation margin is calculated as follows:
VM = (1/PriceClose - 1/PriceOpen) * W/R;

- https://icbit.se/BUZ2

From that I see the two variables, PriceOpen and PriceClose.

I'm assuming PriceOpen is the "Exec(ution) Price" shown in my balance?  And where does that come from? I read:

"execution price" for this position will be set to the price of the last clearing.

Let's say today I don't yet have a position open and I buy one contract at $13.20.  Does the price used for "Exec(ution) Price" then show the same as if I had already held the position opened a previous day?  (i.e., set from the last 20:00 GMT clearing?)

If so, is there a way for me to know what this last clearing price will be without me already having a position open?

[Fireball]

Variation margin is calculated as follows:
VM = (1/PriceClose - 1/PriceOpen) * W/R;

- https://icbit.se/BUZ2

From that I see the two variables, PriceOpen and PriceClose.

I'm assuming PriceOpen is the "Exec(ution) Price" shown in my balance?  And where does that come from? I read:

"execution price" for this position will be set to the price of the last clearing.

Let's say today I don't yet have a position open and I buy one contract at $13.20.  Does the price used for "Exec(ution) Price" then show the same as if I had already held the position opened a previous day?  (i.e., set from the last 20:00 GMT clearing?)

Let's have a look at two different scenarios, when you start from scratch - only having some BTC in your account and then
you buy one contract at $13.20. The information is stored in the system that you hold 1 BUZ2 contract which you bought at $13.20.

Then, either one of two options:
1. You manage to sell it within same day (same trading session) at $14.00. As a result of closing the position you get:
VM = (1/14.00 - 1/13.20) * (-10) = 0.0429 BTC, which are added to your account (and 0.005 BTC deducted as trading fee).
2. You hold the position overnight. Let's imagine that last trade between someone happened at 19:57 GMT at $14.00. Then, during the clearing your account is credited with 0.0429 BTC, and the "exec" price (or, we can call it a "base" price) is set to 14.00. So at the start of the next trading session, it's equivalent to the case if you would sell your contract at 14.00 and then bought it again at the same price (of course, no trading fees are deducted for holding the position overnight).

If so, is there a way for me to know what this last clearing price will be without me already having a position open?

Very simple, it's the price of the last trade, or if there were no trades for long enough time, it's a middle point between current best bid and ask. I will put a so-called "ticker" atop of the webpage, which would show current last price, open price, high and low, etc.

[Ichthyo]

Very simple, it's the price of the last trade, or if there were no trades for long enough time, it's a middle point between current best bid and ask. I will put a so-called "ticker" atop of the webpage, which would show current last price, open price, high and low, etc.

very much appreciated...

[toffoo]

Hi, what's the story with this one:

I tried to withdraw some BTC and got this error:

"Please cancel your active futures orders before withdrawing Bitcoins!"

so I cancelled my open futures orders, but then got this error:

"Please close your open futures positions before withdrawing Bitcoins!"


Do I really need to cancel all orders and close out all open positions to make a BTC withdrawal?

[ThePok]

yeah, i hate that too 

[picobit]

Do I understand it correctly that the price used to settle the account every day is the icbit futures market price, and the only time the "average price of the largest market" comes in is when the contracts expire at the end of december?