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Author Topic: ICBIT Derivatives Market (USD/BTC futures trading) - LIVE  (Read 88565 times)
BitLTC
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November 01, 2013, 09:23:07 AM
 #921


 .... your 100 contracts cost $0.02 per day  (100 contracts X 0.0001 BTC X 2 clearings per day).


Didn't you mean 0.02 BTC per day.  That is 200 times more expensive.


Thanks for your replies. I find that absurdly expensive. The cost of 'hedging' is too high to use it.
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picobit
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November 01, 2013, 11:56:34 AM
 #922

Thanks for your replies. I find that absurdly expensive. The cost of 'hedging' is too high to use it.

It is indeed quite expensive!  But then Bitcoin is extremely volatile, so if you hedge against a risk that risk is unusually large (hence the high price of hedging) or if you are speculating the potential gain is large.

But I agree that the price has become absurd.  As the price increases, the contracts become smaller and smaller (measured in BTC) while the fee stays the same.
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November 02, 2013, 07:11:03 PM
 #923

Good news everyone!

To celebrate our anniversary a period of ZERO FEES will start today (2nd of November) at 20:00 UTC and it will last for 2 weeks (until 16th of November 20:00 UTC clearing). After that, fees will be significantly reduced according to the spot exchange rate to make futures trading even more fun.

Margin trading platform OrderBook.net (ICBIT): https://orderbook.net
Follow us in Twitter: https://twitter.com/orderbooknet
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November 09, 2013, 05:45:44 PM
 #924

Servers may be down for a few minutes for maintenance. Thanks for patience!

Margin trading platform OrderBook.net (ICBIT): https://orderbook.net
Follow us in Twitter: https://twitter.com/orderbooknet
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November 14, 2013, 02:16:13 PM
 #925

It gives me runtime error what's going on?
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November 14, 2013, 09:56:43 PM
 #926

It gives me runtime error what's going on?

An unforeseen technical issue, was resolved shortly.

Margin trading platform OrderBook.net (ICBIT): https://orderbook.net
Follow us in Twitter: https://twitter.com/orderbooknet
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November 15, 2013, 12:11:00 PM
 #927

New contract launched: BTC/USD-1.14 (expires in January, 2014). Range ±15%. Tick size $0.1

Margin trading platform OrderBook.net (ICBIT): https://orderbook.net
Follow us in Twitter: https://twitter.com/orderbooknet
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November 27, 2013, 01:34:11 PM
 #928

It has not yet been announced here, but this seems important.

A new rule is going into effect at icbit at 2000 today.  It is rule 3.2.3 in https://icbit.se/rules/

N.B. The rules at https://icbit.se/rules/ are presented merely for discussion.  Most are either de facto or previously published, but it has been announced by Tycho "[11/27 11:33] Tycho: Rule 3.2.3 is in effect."

This becomes meangingful at 1900.  Plan accordingly.

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November 27, 2013, 06:38:11 PM
 #929

OK, this is not a dramatic change, and it does not look like it affects us users in any bad way - just a bit less manipulation, which is good for most of us, I guess.  Smiley
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November 28, 2013, 02:50:32 AM
 #930

Sorry to bring in bad news, but we have a number of technical issues with the hardware.

Bitcoins are unaffected, please sorry for downtime. ETA on recovery will be published soon.

Margin trading platform OrderBook.net (ICBIT): https://orderbook.net
Follow us in Twitter: https://twitter.com/orderbooknet
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November 28, 2013, 02:55:03 AM
 #931

Ahhhw that sucks, I was about to check it out haha.
Well I guess ill come back later.
Good luck solving these technical issues!

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DeepBit
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November 28, 2013, 04:50:06 AM
 #932

Important message about recent changes.

Our rules are in effect starting from this night: https://icbit.se/rules
Most statements were already de facto in effect, and our main goal was to cover all possible situations, so we will add more explanations should any uncertainty arise.

Additional margin (see rule 3.3.1.2):
I expect that approximately half of our players would be very upset with new additional margin, but you should understand that this is the only one possible way to deal with current situation. Base margin for all contracts only covers any movements within the trading range, but no more, so there is no way we could settle a contract with 100% contango if just ~10% is covered by a margin. 100% contango is a severe condition and it was even rising instead of contracting, so we had to implement this additional margin to be able to manage settlement of this instrument.
Other half of those positions, who were shorting, will understand that we did it to be able to pay all shorts.
We also get messages from possible big traders telling us that it's just absolutely not serious to keep such a low margin and that they wouldn't trade here knowing that their profit may be not paid due to longs defaulting.
It's still not the end of the world, and we won't issue margin calls in this and next trading session so you can either reduce/close your position or add funds.
Yes, we also had a proposal to deploy additional margin gradually, by a few percents per day, but as our estimation shows, this would cause much more damage.
It turns out that some players with long positions were intentionally exploiting this low-margin situation, buying more contracts at the price higher than they ever expected spot to reach at the settlement.
Summary: we know that this a very unpopular change and we expect lots of scam accusations with negative feedback, but 1) we had no choice, this is the only way to be able to settle our BTC/USD instruments, either this or stopping our operations, 2) this change makes our trading much more secure and we decided that it's more important than possible negative feedback. It's not a completely sudden change, we posted the proposal in the trollbox many times during the last 3 weeks, even personally to some long position holders, but didn't received a lot of alternative solutions. And yes, we understand that trollbox is for informal communications, not official announcements.

Technical issues and withdrawals/deposits today:
We experienced some bad luck today and have to move/switch some servers due to hardware problems, this includes our Bitcoin interface too, so bitcoin operations may be delayed while this server is offline. Don't worry, your bitcoins are safe and we will continue operations soon. As I said before, no margin calls will be issued during this and next trading sessions.

New rules:
If you think that our rules do not cover some important aspect of the exchange, please comment here and we will add clarifications. It's important to cover all possible situations there.

Your safety is our priority.

Welcome to my bitcoin mining pool: https://deepbit.net ~ 3600 GH/s, Both payment schemes, instant payout, no invalid blocks !
Coming soon: ICBIT Trading platform
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November 28, 2013, 07:34:38 AM
 #933

Whoah!  That caused your market to crash.    Shocked
ToMineOrNotToMine
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December 01, 2013, 12:47:37 AM
 #934

As I understsand it, your BTC/USD-futures are futures on USD. By buying it or entering it long,  you agree to buy 10 USD at settelement date for the current future's price. Thus, disregarding clearing(which should cancel in the end), the settlement will be:

(1/(current spot price) - 1/(agreed futures price))*10 USD

(The reciprocals occur because prices are given in BTC and not USD.)

Of course, as with any future, a LONG futures contract profits from a rising price in the underlying. In this case from a rise in USD price (in BTC), i.e. from a fall in BTC value. The same can easily be seen by looking at the settlement formula above. A LONG 10 USD futures contract is actually betting against Bitcoins.

So far so good.

My question is, why do you put this text on your trading platform right above the BUY and SELL buttons?

Quote
Hint: "Buy" contracts if you want to profit from price going up and "Sell" if you want to profit from price going down.
https://icbit.se/WebTrade/Account/Futures.aspx

I think this is not consistent. BUYing a contract on your platform is actually SELLING a futures contract as described on https://icbit.se/BUF4.

Could you please clarify?

EDIT:

The possibility to hedge miner's fixed USD (i.e. variable BTC) expenses into fixed BTC expenses is untouched by the way the contact is designed. A future with a lot of 1BTC would can be used "exactly" in the same way as a 10USD future. Then your BUY and SELL button would make more sense to me.

EDIT 2:

I am not saying that it is wrong to use a future on 10 USD and then quote its price in USD/BTC, as many others have complained. I am saying, that betting on a BTC rise is called "selling" such a contract. And this fact is independent of using BTC/USD or USD/BTC in the quotes.
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December 01, 2013, 12:57:28 AM
 #935

Could you please clarify?
While Fireball didn't answered this yet, I'll post some additional notes.

1) you are not "buying" 10 USD, you are "buying" 10 USD worth of bitcoins.
2) correct settlement formula is published in each contract's specs.
3) there is a "calculator" icon in the "New order" widget. You can try to give it some numbers to check what results you'll get with given contract. (Fees not calculated ATM)

Welcome to my bitcoin mining pool: https://deepbit.net ~ 3600 GH/s, Both payment schemes, instant payout, no invalid blocks !
Coming soon: ICBIT Trading platform
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December 01, 2013, 01:48:30 AM
 #936

1) you are not "buying" 10 USD, you are "buying" 10 USD worth of bitcoins.

Buying anything that is worth 10USD is betting on USD value to go up. Thats why your buttons are wrong.

See also my edit, which explains why a change would not break anything.
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December 01, 2013, 10:53:58 AM
 #937

1) you are not "buying" 10 USD, you are "buying" 10 USD worth of bitcoins.

Buying anything that is worth 10USD is betting on USD value to go up. Thats why your buttons are wrong.

See also my edit, which explains why a change would not break anything.

No, buying something for 10 USD TODAY is betting that the price of USD is going down.  If USD are cheaper in the future, you would have got fewer bitcoins in the future, and you keep the rest.

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December 02, 2013, 12:06:03 PM
 #938

1) you are not "buying" 10 USD, you are "buying" 10 USD worth of bitcoins.

Buying anything that is worth 10USD is betting on USD value to go up. Thats why your buttons are wrong.

See also my edit, which explains why a change would not break anything.

No, buying something for 10 USD TODAY is betting that the price of USD is going down.  If USD are cheaper in the future, you would have got fewer bitcoins in the future, and you keep the rest.



You are right, but it does not have anything to do with a 10USD future:

Entering a 10 USD future long:

1) You are not buying TODAY (hence the name future)
2) You are not buying something FOR 10USD. You are buying 10 USD.


So if the value of the USD goes up in the future you can sell your 10 USD you get from our futures contract for more, hence profit.
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December 03, 2013, 12:31:17 AM
 #939

You are right.

And really the ICBIT futures are USD futures settled in BTC, but they are "marketed" as BTC futures, so "BUY" buys BTC and sells USD.

I agree it is confusing - but in the end it is probably less confusing that buying is buying BTC just like everywhere else.  A choice between two evils. Smiley
 
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December 03, 2013, 02:21:37 AM
 #940

Good! Only one thing left:

A choice between two evils. Smiley
 

Using an actual BTC future is no evil. It has no drawbacks!
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