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Author Topic: ICBIT Derivatives Market (USD/BTC futures trading) - LIVE  (Read 88608 times)
Fireball
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February 25, 2013, 05:02:42 PM
 #541

I must say that I tend to agree with toffoo here.  AFAIK noone has tried to shut down icbit so far, but then noone has had an incentive to do so.  Piggybacking on S&P500 may be like waving a red cloth at the face of some pretty resourceful people.  If they truly earn money on licensing the right to trade such futures, they are almost sure to have people employed to look for people that are not paying.  McGraw-Hill are know to be a bit aggressive when it comes to protecting their rights.  While interesting, it this worth the risk?  Well, that is of course Fireball's call, he is the one who could get in trouble.
Ok, I got information.

ICBIT organizes trading of its own futures contract, which settles as 0.01 BTC multiplied by value of the S&P 500 index by the moment of settlement. We do not calculate S&P 500 index ourself, we do not pretend to be substituting CME's S&P 500 futures contracts, or e-mini S&P 500 futures contracts settled in either US Dollars or Euros.

If absolutely necessary, to avoid legal problems, we are ready to:
1. Change name of ICBIT's futures contract to avoid direct relation to either e-mini or CME's full sized S&P 500 futures contract settled in USD or EUR.
2. Change settlement formula by adding a fixed offset. For example, our contract's tick size would be 0.01 BTC x (S&P500 index value + 1 point).

So, it's nothing to worry about (yet).

Margin trading platform OrderBook.net (ICBIT): https://orderbook.net
Follow us in Twitter: https://twitter.com/orderbooknet
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Fireball
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March 01, 2013, 10:56:57 AM
 #542

An important server side update was just deployed.
Most noticable improvement: Now multiple connections from the same user is possible, and notifications will be automatically routed to every connected client. So you can open S&P500-index futures in one browser tab, BTCUSD in another tab, and Exchange in the third tab, and all of that will work and autoupdate as expected.
You can run your trading bot software, and watch the orders it places in real time in the web browser.

Another noticeable improvement is for IE users. Sometimes, autoupdates did not work and user had to force page refresh to see updates to his orders list. Now, this is also fixed.

Margin trading platform OrderBook.net (ICBIT): https://orderbook.net
Follow us in Twitter: https://twitter.com/orderbooknet
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March 01, 2013, 11:07:38 AM
 #543

Where is june BTCUSD?

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picobit
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March 02, 2013, 10:50:43 AM
 #544

An important server side update was just deployed.
Most noticable improvement: Now multiple connections from the same user is possible, and notifications will be automatically routed to every connected client. So you can open S&P500-index futures in one browser tab, BTCUSD in another tab, and Exchange in the third tab, and all of that will work and autoupdate as expected.
You can run your trading bot software, and watch the orders it places in real time in the web browser.

Another noticeable improvement is for IE users. Sometimes, autoupdates did not work and user had to force page refresh to see updates to his orders list. Now, this is also fixed.


Great!  I really like this steady stream of small interface improvements! 
picobit
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March 03, 2013, 08:39:28 PM
 #545

And .... drum roll .... no less than three new BTC/USD futures contracts have appeared in the trading interface.   Virtually no orders (yet)  Grin

Edit: I cannot count to three Smiley
ThePok
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March 03, 2013, 08:50:34 PM
 #546

and lower fees!!!!
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March 04, 2013, 08:30:32 AM
 #547

how are we going to get for example BUM3 going? The trading range is 32.139 - 39.281.

Who in his right mind would place an ASK at 39.281?

PGP key molecular F9B70769 fingerprint 9CDD C0D3 20F8 279F 6BE0  3F39 FC49 2362 F9B7 0769
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March 04, 2013, 09:01:24 AM
 #548

If you think so, you could place a BID at 39.  Then tomorrows trading range will be centered around 39.  If you think 39 is too low, then you should be happy if the bid is taken.
molecular
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March 04, 2013, 09:20:47 AM
 #549

If you think so, you could place a BID at 39.  Then tomorrows trading range will be centered around 39.  If you think 39 is too low, then you should be happy if the bid is taken.


That's true. Thanks for the hint.

PGP key molecular F9B70769 fingerprint 9CDD C0D3 20F8 279F 6BE0  3F39 FC49 2362 F9B7 0769
Stephen Gornick
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March 04, 2013, 05:38:59 PM
 #550

Who in his right mind would place an ASK at 39.281?

Anyone who wants to lock in the ability to sell a BTC at $39 today (but simply won't get the cash until September 15th).  That's who.



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March 05, 2013, 11:40:03 AM
 #551

It still would be nice for there to be shown the history of daily clearing prices.  (And also the ability to access the charts and order book without first authenticating, incidentally.)
Indeed I heard many similar requests, however I want to make some tradeoff by making the frontpage way more informative and "live" than the currently existing one, however imposing some limitations (slower update rate, for example) not to overload the server with many unauthenticated and thus uncontrolled connections.

This is already in progress, so should be deployed relatively soon.
How far are you along this path?

I would also appreciate unauthorized access to the order book. You see, I'm considering creating a website that actively tracks backwardation in bitcoin. So in order to track that I need to know the asks for the futures contracts, and the bid on BTC on Mt. Gox. Mt. Gox already has public order books, so your site is the only missing piece of the puzzle. Smiley
Fireball
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March 05, 2013, 07:55:58 PM
 #552

Maintenance break in trading services now. I will post here/tweet when things are done.

Margin trading platform OrderBook.net (ICBIT): https://orderbook.net
Follow us in Twitter: https://twitter.com/orderbooknet
Stephen Gornick
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March 05, 2013, 09:07:25 PM
 #553

Maintenance break in trading services now. I will post here/tweet when things are done.

Looks like someone with a short got liquidated on a BUH3 short position?

Showing bids getting filled all the way down to $34.2.   Dammmnn, so I guess it would have paid for me to have left a few lowball bids out there just in case this type of event happens, it appears.

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March 05, 2013, 09:08:48 PM
 #554

Maintenance break in trading services now. I will post here/tweet when things are done.

We had to close a few profitable positions due to non-paying customers (you can see that Open Interest reduced) at below-market prices.
However, as a bonus, those whose profitable positions were reduced, got part of their profit secured without any trading fees.

Trading is back to normal. Thanks for using ICBIT!

Margin trading platform OrderBook.net (ICBIT): https://orderbook.net
Follow us in Twitter: https://twitter.com/orderbooknet
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March 05, 2013, 09:22:41 PM
 #555

We had to close a few profitable positions due to non-paying customers

I'm confused.  If it was a profitable position it would add variation margin and thus no payment would be required.   About the only thing that would explain a profitable position seeing forced margin selling would be if the margin requirements changed, which if true would be news to me.

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March 05, 2013, 09:49:32 PM
 #556

We had to close a few profitable positions due to non-paying customers

I'm confused.  If it was a profitable position it would add variation margin and thus no payment would be required.   About the only thing that would explain a profitable position seeing forced margin selling would be if the margin requirements changed, which if true would be news to me.

One person shorted too much, and did not add money in the account to upkeep the position, so account reached negative state. And there are no asks in the order book to cover the short position. So it falls into the "worst case": the system chooses counter parties (longs in the same futures contract in our case) with biggest unrealized profit by itself, and makes a forced trade (buy to cover) between these parties.

As a result, the person who was in debt ends up with 0 BTC in account (there were a few emails sent, and waiting time was a few days), and profitable traders positions were reduced (as if they sold them to realize the profit).

Margin trading platform OrderBook.net (ICBIT): https://orderbook.net
Follow us in Twitter: https://twitter.com/orderbooknet
zebedee
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March 05, 2013, 09:53:02 PM
 #557

We had to close a few profitable positions due to non-paying customers

I'm confused.  If it was a profitable position it would add variation margin and thus no payment would be required.   About the only thing that would explain a profitable position seeing forced margin selling would be if the margin requirements changed, which if true would be news to me.


Yeah explanation makes no sense.

And trading fees at this exchange are outrageous on H3 - over 1.7 points are charged just for a buy and sell, ie. 170 ticks! I wonder how many buyers buying at 41 realise they make no money selling below 42.7?

No wonder spreads are so wide. Fees should be in USD and converted to BTC at the price traded...


In real futures markets in-and-out typically costs one tick or less. Here fees are two orders of magnitude greater.
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March 05, 2013, 09:59:19 PM
 #558

We had to close a few profitable positions due to non-paying customers

I'm confused.  If it was a profitable position it would add variation margin and thus no payment would be required.   About the only thing that would explain a profitable position seeing forced margin selling would be if the margin requirements changed, which if true would be news to me.

One person shorted too much, and did not add money in the account to upkeep the position, so account reached negative state. And there are no asks in the order book to cover the short position. So it falls into the "worst case": the system chooses counter parties (longs in the same futures contract in our case) with biggest unrealized profit by itself, and makes a forced trade (buy to cover) between these parties.

As a result, the person who was in debt ends up with 0 BTC in account (there were a few emails sent, and waiting time was a few days), and profitable traders positions were reduced (as if they sold them to realize the profit).

where on your site are these things explained? There is very little detail or explanation of margining and close out procedures that I could find, and such information is fundamental for anyone deciding whether to trade.

Where is a history of traded volumes and prices? Those weak graphs don't count and lack detail and precision.

I don't even see 24 hour volume....
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March 05, 2013, 10:01:29 PM
 #559

where on your site are these things explained? There is very little detail or explanation of margining and close out procedures that I could find, and such information is fundamental for anyone deciding whether to trade.
It should take you just a few seconds to locate this information on the website: https://icbit.se/margincall


Margin trading platform OrderBook.net (ICBIT): https://orderbook.net
Follow us in Twitter: https://twitter.com/orderbooknet
zebedee
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March 05, 2013, 10:07:41 PM
 #560

where on your site are these things explained? There is very little detail or explanation of margining and close out procedures that I could find, and such information is fundamental for anyone deciding whether to trade.
It should take you just a few seconds to locate this information on the website: https://icbit.se/margincall



Thanks, for some reason I couldn't find it besides looking twice. Any comments on fees?

Are fees constant once a contract is introduced or do they rise approaching maturity? As they seem to reduce for later contracts. Why not denominate fees in USD to avert the ridiculous charges now on H3?

Even J3 fees - a new contract - are a full point for in-and-out.
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