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Author Topic: ICBIT Derivatives Market (USD/BTC futures trading) - LIVE  (Read 88611 times)
davidoski
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March 25, 2013, 04:25:27 PM
 #661

Why there's no sell orders at present?
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Fireball
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March 25, 2013, 04:53:09 PM
 #662

Why there's no sell orders at present?
That happens when everyone is too optimistic about rate moving upwards Smiley

Seriously, it means that traders don't find it economically viable to sell inside the given price range. The solution usually is to make an additional clearing to enhance trading range, which is going to be done soon.

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March 26, 2013, 07:32:46 PM
 #663

A minor update was just deployed. It improves format of the "user_balance" API message.

Changes:
1. Now the "amount" field and "qty" field got merged together into unified "qty" field used to denote quantity of futures and amount of currency.
2. Name represents the long name of the security (currency or futures) now, instead of representing long name for the currency and short name for the futures.
3. Ticker field is added, which contains the symbol name of the security (e.g. BTC for bitcoins, and BUJ3 for the respective futures contract)

Trading bot owners, please update accordingly!

Margin trading platform OrderBook.net (ICBIT): https://orderbook.net
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xeverse
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March 28, 2013, 08:45:03 AM
 #664


When r u goin' to fix that qiwi funding anyway?
It has been broken for at least a week.. Or is it just me?

Yeah bitcoin brings totally new paradigm, a decentralized one.
What's the point in having an old fashioned centralized exchange then?
Ultimately we need a p2p exchange instead of all this hell..

>> The Dark Exchange..
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March 28, 2013, 03:26:59 PM
 #665

When r u goin' to fix that qiwi funding anyway?
It has been broken for at least a week.. Or is it just me?

Yeah bitcoin brings totally new paradigm, a decentralized one.
What's the point in having an old fashioned centralized exchange then?
Ultimately we need a p2p exchange instead of all this hell..

Qiwi... there are many technical difficulties, sorry. We are looking for ways to properly fix that.

As for dark exchange - yeah, but when it comes to ICBIT, it's not just for exchange, it's for trading (which are two different terms).

Margin trading platform OrderBook.net (ICBIT): https://orderbook.net
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xeverse
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March 28, 2013, 06:07:33 PM
 #666

it's not just for exchange, it's for trading (which are two different terms).
But the basic concepts of the dark exch should also be applied to trading/hedging.. Good luck..
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March 28, 2013, 09:57:47 PM
 #667

Incidentally:

Quote
It looks like an extra clearing is needed to move back the trading ranges for futures #bitcoin
- https://twitter.com/icbit_se/status/317392723709673472

That was the fastest time between clearings that I've seen.  The 20:00 clearing and then the special one at 21:52.

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March 28, 2013, 10:36:53 PM
 #668

Incidentally:

Quote
It looks like an extra clearing is needed to move back the trading ranges for futures #bitcoin
- https://twitter.com/icbit_se/status/317392723709673472

That was the fastest time between clearings that I've seen.  The 20:00 clearing and then the special one at 21:52.

This is part of a risk management strategy. It's very important to avoid defaults. My condolences to those affected by margin calls. Please don't buy to full leverage, keep enough money for sudden moves.

Remember, if it rises 10% a day, it can fall 10% a day too. Especially if you bought 20% above the spot price, consider even just contango reduction may lead to margin calls.

Margin trading platform OrderBook.net (ICBIT): https://orderbook.net
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davidoski
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March 28, 2013, 10:59:14 PM
 #669

What is the reason for additional clearing? Just to "move back trading ranges"? Looks more like pretext than reason.

Trading range is supposed to be established to avoid harsh moves - if you make additional clearings to "move back trading ranges" you just saying that there's no trading ranges, because you change it everytime there's big move by doing additional clearing.
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March 28, 2013, 11:00:16 PM
 #670

What is the reason for additional clearing? Just to "move back trading ranges"? Looks more like pretext than reason.

Please have a look at the spot market chart (Mt.Gox). The reason was a sharp decline in the trading price during 2 (two) hours in a row.

Margin trading platform OrderBook.net (ICBIT): https://orderbook.net
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davidoski
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March 28, 2013, 11:02:35 PM
 #671

So why is trading range established in the first place?
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March 28, 2013, 11:15:20 PM
 #672

So why is trading range established in the first place?

Trading range:
1. Allows some sort of control over market manipulation and forcing traders out by moving the futures market (e.g. spot price stays at the same level, but bulls are increasing contango from 10% to 20% to 30% effectively forcing out those who are in a short position)
2. Allows the exchange to perform risk management and guarantee payment to all traders.

As you all could see, we did not hurry to enhance trading range when the underlying asset does not exhibit sharp moves. When it doesn, an additional clearing was done in a timely manner.

If there are any proposals - please let me know. Just keep in mind, that exchange must be neutral and does not favor "long" or "short" traders. It must provide stable trading conditions for both parties for their benefit.

Margin trading platform OrderBook.net (ICBIT): https://orderbook.net
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davidoski
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March 28, 2013, 11:23:35 PM
 #673

My proposition is

1. remove trading range at all or
2. provide clear rules for "additional clearings" which change the trading range so users can calculate the risk

If you do additional clearings arbitrarily you effectively change the trading range at will. Many people have margin calls that they wouldn't have if additional clearing was not done because spot price dip was short lasting. In effect they feel that arbitrarily done clearing "margin called" their accounts. No clear rules for additional clearings justifies their feelings.
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March 28, 2013, 11:27:40 PM
 #674

My proposition is

1. remove trading range at all or
2. provide clear rules for "additional clearings" which change the trading range so users can calculate the risk

If you do additional clearings arbitrarily you effectively change the trading range at will. Many people have margin calls that they wouldn't have if additional clearing was not done. In effect they feel that arbitrarily done clearing "margin called" their accounts. No clear rules for additional clearings justifies their feelings.

Allright, proposal nr.2 accepted. I will outline the draft of the rules soon.

Margin trading platform OrderBook.net (ICBIT): https://orderbook.net
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davidoski
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March 28, 2013, 11:32:17 PM
 #675

Thank you.
Fireball
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March 29, 2013, 08:27:13 PM
 #676

I'm applying some updates to the system atm, please excuse short downtime.

Margin trading platform OrderBook.net (ICBIT): https://orderbook.net
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March 29, 2013, 08:27:56 PM
 #677

My proposition is

1. remove trading range at all or
2. provide clear rules for "additional clearings" which change the trading range so users can calculate the risk

If you do additional clearings arbitrarily you effectively change the trading range at will. Many people have margin calls that they wouldn't have if additional clearing was not done. In effect they feel that arbitrarily done clearing "margin called" their accounts. No clear rules for additional clearings justifies their feelings.

Allright, proposal nr.2 accepted. I will outline the draft of the rules soon.

currently, the additional clearings are a scam.

I have lost all of my financial confidence in icbit - this is no less than the second major round of huge price "manipulation" this time fueled by the apparently new automated margin call execution - This is definitely resulting in losses to smaller investors. this coupled with the "additional clearings put investors at far more risk than intended - this is theft. The nonchalant attitude of icbit suggests they have something to gain from this.

I believe that I can no longer trade at icbit. The lack of concern for investors' money is flagrant and alarming.

Mine at the Maza Club! with ShastaFarEye Prospectors! Mazacoin PPS & P2pool mining, and more services coming soon!
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Ichthyo
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March 29, 2013, 08:37:32 PM
 #678

What is the reason for additional clearing? Just to "move back trading ranges"? Looks more like pretext than reason.

Please have a look at the spot market chart (Mt.Gox). The reason was a sharp decline in the trading price during 2 (two) hours in a row.

This does not justify any manipulation of the trading ranges on the futures. This is a feature. Even if the spot price collapses, the future trading span will walk down in a moderate pace. The trading ranges must not react hastily to such flash crashes as yesterday.

I welcome that you'll set up clear rules for such additional clearings. Moreover, I'd urge to build in a strong damping factor.
For example, if there is a decline of more than the current trading range span, and if this decline lasts more than 8 hours, then an additonal clearing would be adequate IMHO. (This would allow 2 additional clearings per day)
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March 29, 2013, 08:54:40 PM
 #679

I welcome that you'll set up clear rules for such additional clearings. Moreover, I'd urge to build in a strong damping factor.
For example, if there is a decline of more than the current trading range span, and if this decline lasts more than 8 hours, then an additonal clearing would be adequate IMHO. (This would allow 2 additional clearings per day)

Ichtyo - 8 hours is a huge risk. Margin requirements should be significantly increased to allow waiting for such long time. We are doing really strict risk management now, it's the only way to remain honest and pay everyone what they earned.

Bytheway, by popular demand I added a line there at https://icbit.se/futures saying
Please note, the ICBIT exchanges reserves the right to perform additional clearings to enhance trading range in rare occasions (mostly, when there is a strong, more than 10% move on the spot market).

Margin trading platform OrderBook.net (ICBIT): https://orderbook.net
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March 29, 2013, 09:22:50 PM
 #680

After long discussion in the ICBIT chat, a proposal is made to change the risk management of the exchange. To get a broader overview, I'm posting it here.

It is proposed to get rid of "additional clearings are possible" definition at all, and instead perform clearing twice a day, at uniform time intervals (e.g. 20:00 UTC and 08:00 UTC). This should make risk more predictable for traders and for the exchange too.

Margin trading platform OrderBook.net (ICBIT): https://orderbook.net
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