[ANN] FlutterCoin FLT Proof Of Transaction Cash Back for Sending & Recieving

[Stedy]

Any reason to the selloff this morning? Kinda strange turn for this coin, has been pretty steady recently and I saw good uptrends last few days.

Now this?  Why...

Now it makes me buy even more FLT, Top 30 here I come!!!

It is a bit strange. Perhaps to do with the fact that all ALT coins are on their arse right now. Who knows. I'm investing in more FLT's anyway. For every loser, theres a winner!
I noticed there doesn't seem to be a fluttercoin official forum as yet. Would anybody mind if I went ahead and launched a simplemachines Fluttercoin forum? I don't want any coins in return. I'm pretty good with PHP and Java so should be a piece of cake.

I think a lot of altcoin traders are here for the pump and dumps but this isn't one of those coins. When it sits steady or doesn't jump 100% people get bored, sell off and move on. It's a shame alt traders don't have more patience. This is a good coin with great devs, it's one of the long term coins.

[mikeymillie]

I got one PoT reward in March, and that's all. It's very hard to get PoT, you should be extremely lucky. This is the reason I don't understand why some people praise it so much. Yes, theoretically it's great, yes, it's a new feature (and I like innovations), and yes, you might catch this PoT... some day, somewhere, somehow... but in general for me personally it's almost non-existent and unimportant.

As of now I'd give more praise to PoS than to PoT because PoS can bring you a real profit while PoT is just a lottery with a small prize, and this prize will get lower and lower with block reward halving because PoS gives you 50% of the current PoW block reward. Let's say, If you could possibly win a $10 prize once a year would it really matter to you?

I'd like to see PoT given some kind of sliding scale so that every transaction can pay back a tiny amount (even if it's just barely a few satoshis or fluttaishis or whatever) or you can elect to notch it up to larger payouts that are more and more random.  That way if you want to take chances for fun, sure go for it and set it to 2500 FLT at max odds, or set it to 1 FLT at guaranteed odds - in both cases the minimum Xfer to qualify should be appropriate as well, i.e. the 1 FLT payout requires 100 FLT transfer.  I realize that PoT is basically a kind of one-transaction-at-a-time iterative mining process so the randomness of PoT rewards is derived from the natural randomness of mining a block. Given this, a PoT peer to peer reward pool might need to exist to take large PoT rewards and pool them into payout streams in order to make PoT 'feel' more like a reward system and less like a lottery for those who aren't really into the chance reward concept (which I suspect is most people).  

I agree with this statement that the PoT system needs to change to make it actually useful. I understand the concern about bots creating wallets and sending transactions back and forth 24/7 to trigger the PoT if it were made easier, but couldn't having some kind of Captcha recognition built in to mitigate that scenario?

No - PoT is determined by the mined block, and also this would eliminate all transactions originated via merchants.

But likely it will be made easier after the rewards drop - but the reward for PoT will also drop in turn - and the minimum transaction value will stay particularly high so transaction fees will eat up any potential rewards via automated systems.

Also, PoT usefulness is more than the reward's its more about security.

Perhaps you need to think of decoupling the PoT from the mined block...allow for more frequent rewards based on transactions so that it can gain more support to actually be used as a currency. If PoT were made more attractive, there'd be no reason not to use FLT like a currency and spend/receive. There is no other coin offering this benefit, but the way it is designed right now is not very effective for gaining interest in using it as a currency. In it's current format, it's way over hyped since so few ppl even receive a PoT reward...

I get what you are saying and agree that PoT is in need of some kind of rethinking to make it more generalized so that it is attractive to users for spending.  

But I don't think PoT can be decouple from mining because PoT *is* a form of mining.  The reward comes from the same place (and is subject to the same randomizing factors) that mining rewards come from - the 'mining' of a block.  And recall that mining's main purpose is to secure the blockchain by confirming transactions, the minting of coin (and distribution of it in the form of block rewards as compensation for the cost of transaction processing and keeping a costly full node running to bolster the network) is a secondary function.  

PoT is basically mining, but driven by transactions. You can think of PoW as non-stop mining, while PoT is iterative, mining a tiny bit on every transaction.  

PoT, like PoS, is first and foremost intended to decentralize the network away from dedicated mining by offloading the work of transaction confirmation processing from dedicated mining rigs and spreading it out to edge users and wallets.  

 PoS staking interest, like PoT rewards, is a form of compensation for keeping a node open to support the network (PoS) and using the coin to drive the economy the network supports (PoT)

In that sense it goes even farther toward the goals of "ASIC resistance" and decentralization than any of these new PoW algos like Scrypt-N and X11, Jane, etc.  Those algos merely put up passive barriers to slow the ASIC army's advance, whereas PoT and PoS actively starve it into submission.

I think the problem with PoT is the message - it is very confusing at first, and it can turn off a lot of people because the way it is presented sounds like it either won't work (and cannot be readily tested to prove it does), or even if it works it won't matter in any meaningful way.  What does Butterfly Effect actually mean in real terms of benefits to users, or miners, or investors or even merchants?  

A narrative focusing on very random and rare (and thus 'unbankable') PoT rewards is not going to get many people excited once they see how unlikely it is they will get one (especially as the rewards get miniscule with every block having).  But crypto people have a strong interest in making sure networks stay decentralized, just look at all the energy and effort and ink being used on ASIC resistance.  It's a huge, huge topic for us. Which is great because decentralization is what PoT actually does well.

Explaining that PoT is another arrow in the decentralization quiver will be much better received than saying you might randomly get a small amount of free FLT, because enthusiasm for this quickly turns to a cynicism once the whole story comes out about how rare that free payout actually is.

Or better yet, rethink the whole concept of PoT to make it much more spectacular than it already is.  If, say (just spitballing here), all PoT rewards accrued to a secured escrow "network owned" wallet somewhere and that wallet built up a large pool that randomly paid out like an actual lotto jackpot,  people would get very excited about that because they can relate to huge rewards that are extremely rare much more than small rewards that are kind of rare.  

[666try]

Here's a cool story bros:  



Although I think you might regret doing that Mr.  1.9 million seller,  I can't say I blame you right now.  

It's me, sorry...

At first, I thought FLT coin is different like other pos coins...

so I have bought a lot of amount of FLT.. (2.9m - 40 btc more)

But I don't know what is POT so far. I have never seen it.

Price doesn't matter.

Decreasing buying support and low volume pressured me.

I have no flt now but I like this coin.

sometimes I'll buy back.

good luck.

[mikeymillie]

Here's a cool story bros:  



Although I think you might regret doing that Mr.  1.9 million seller,  I can't say I blame you right now.  

It's me, sorry...

At first, I thought FLT coin is different like other pos coins...

so I have bought a lot of amount of FLT.. (2.9m - 40 btc more)

But I don't know what is POT so far. I have never seen it.

Price doesn't matter.

Decreasing buying support and low volume pressured me.

I have no flt now but I like this coin.

sometimes I'll buy back.

good luck.

Ah yes, what was that I was saying just before?  Oh yeah, this:  I think the problem with PoT is the message - it is very confusing at first, and it can turn off a lot of people because the way it is presented sounds like it either won't work (and cannot be readily tested to prove it does), or even if it works it won't matter in any meaningful way. 

DEVS:  IF you don't take control of the message, people have to figure out what it is on their own (or listen to someone else tell them FUD), and that usually does not end well.   

QED.

[usdbagholder]

Here's a cool story bros:  

https://i.imgur.com/US93biH.png

Although I think you might regret doing that Mr.  1.9 million seller,  I can't say I blame you right now.  

It's me, sorry...

At first, I thought FLT coin is different like other pos coins...

so I have bought a lot of amount of FLT.. (2.9m - 40 btc more)

But I don't know what is POT so far. I have never seen it.

Price doesn't matter.

Decreasing buying support and low volume pressured me.

I have no flt now but I like this coin.

sometimes I'll buy back.

good luck.

https://i.imgur.com/yqkGHeE.png

Ah yes, what was that I was saying just before?  Oh yeah, this:  I think the problem with PoT is the message - it is very confusing at first, and it can turn off a lot of people because the way it is presented sounds like it either won't work (and cannot be readily tested to prove it does), or even if it works it won't matter in any meaningful way. 

DEVS:  IF you don't take control of the message, people have to figure out what it is on their own (or listen to someone else tell them FUD), and that usually does not end well.   

QED.

I agree that the message is not getting through. There also needs to be a more vibrant presence on Reddit. Is there a person that is currently assigned to PR/Marketing or do we need to work on getting someone in charge of that?

[thekidcoin]

Again - great ideas, but no one does anything... Unless people want to start paying me, I have very little time for hitting the airwaves so to speak.  If everyone is so worried about the exposure the coin is getting, do something about it.   Its a community effort.

With regard to PoT - its surely works, and its easily verifiable. 

To see PoT rewards, check your debug.log for the entry proof-of-transaction - and do a getblockbynumber in that block.  You will see the split reward, you will see the PoT flag, etc.

To see PoT security, what you see is what you get.  We have had many 51% attacks intentional and unintentional - we are still here.

I am toying with modifying PoT to have it occur nearly every PoW block, but payout will be obviously considerably lower than the current 50%.  Security in limiting abuse will also be tightened. Even now someone could setup a million wallets sending to a million addresses inside of millions of Tx's, and they would simply loose money as only 10 transactions and 10 addresses inside each transaction (truncated to 5 if there is over 10) are considered for PoT rewards.  Few more security items as well to be added that I will not go into.

When the frequency is upped, and the above abuse restrictions are tightened, someone trying to abuse the system would be throwing money away because of transaction fees, without much chance at all to earn.

Official details will be posted as soon as I'm finished sometime this week, the fork to make these changes take effect will likely then be 2 weeks out from that date of release.

[thekidcoin]

I got one PoT reward in March, and that's all. It's very hard to get PoT, you should be extremely lucky. This is the reason I don't understand why some people praise it so much. Yes, theoretically it's great, yes, it's a new feature (and I like innovations), and yes, you might catch this PoT... some day, somewhere, somehow... but in general for me personally it's almost non-existent and unimportant.

As of now I'd give more praise to PoS than to PoT because PoS can bring you a real profit while PoT is just a lottery with a small prize, and this prize will get lower and lower with block reward halving because PoS gives you 50% of the current PoW block reward. Let's say, If you could possibly win a $10 prize once a year would it really matter to you?

I'd like to see PoT given some kind of sliding scale so that every transaction can pay back a tiny amount (even if it's just barely a few satoshis or fluttaishis or whatever) or you can elect to notch it up to larger payouts that are more and more random.  That way if you want to take chances for fun, sure go for it and set it to 2500 FLT at max odds, or set it to 1 FLT at guaranteed odds - in both cases the minimum Xfer to qualify should be appropriate as well, i.e. the 1 FLT payout requires 100 FLT transfer.  I realize that PoT is basically a kind of one-transaction-at-a-time iterative mining process so the randomness of PoT rewards is derived from the natural randomness of mining a block. Given this, a PoT peer to peer reward pool might need to exist to take large PoT rewards and pool them into payout streams in order to make PoT 'feel' more like a reward system and less like a lottery for those who aren't really into the chance reward concept (which I suspect is most people).  

I agree with this statement that the PoT system needs to change to make it actually useful. I understand the concern about bots creating wallets and sending transactions back and forth 24/7 to trigger the PoT if it were made easier, but couldn't having some kind of Captcha recognition built in to mitigate that scenario?

No - PoT is determined by the mined block, and also this would eliminate all transactions originated via merchants.

But likely it will be made easier after the rewards drop - but the reward for PoT will also drop in turn - and the minimum transaction value will stay particularly high so transaction fees will eat up any potential rewards via automated systems.

Also, PoT usefulness is more than the reward's its more about security.

Perhaps you need to think of decoupling the PoT from the mined block...allow for more frequent rewards based on transactions so that it can gain more support to actually be used as a currency. If PoT were made more attractive, there'd be no reason not to use FLT like a currency and spend/receive. There is no other coin offering this benefit, but the way it is designed right now is not very effective for gaining interest in using it as a currency. In it's current format, it's way over hyped since so few ppl even receive a PoT reward...

I get what you are saying and agree that PoT is in need of some kind of rethinking to make it more generalized so that it is attractive to users for spending.  

But I don't think PoT can be decouple from mining because PoT *is* a form of mining.  The reward comes from the same place (and is subject to the same randomizing factors) that mining rewards come from - the 'mining' of a block.  And recall that mining's main purpose is to secure the blockchain by confirming transactions, the minting of coin (and distribution of it in the form of block rewards as compensation for the cost of transaction processing and keeping a costly full node running to bolster the network) is a secondary function.  

PoT is basically mining, but driven by transactions. You can think of PoW as non-stop mining, while PoT is iterative, mining a tiny bit on every transaction.  

PoT, like PoS, is first and foremost intended to decentralize the network away from dedicated mining by offloading the work of transaction confirmation processing from dedicated mining rigs and spreading it out to edge users and wallets.  

 PoS staking interest, like PoT rewards, is a form of compensation for keeping a node open to support the network (PoS) and using the coin to drive the economy the network supports (PoT)

In that sense it goes even farther toward the goals of "ASIC resistance" and decentralization than any of these new PoW algos like Scrypt-N and X11, Jane, etc.  Those algos merely put up passive barriers to slow the ASIC army's advance, whereas PoT and PoS actively starve it into submission.

I think the problem with PoT is the message - it is very confusing at first, and it can turn off a lot of people because the way it is presented sounds like it either won't work (and cannot be readily tested to prove it does), or even if it works it won't matter in any meaningful way.  What does Butterfly Effect actually mean in real terms of benefits to users, or miners, or investors or even merchants?  

A narrative focusing on very random and rare (and thus 'unbankable') PoT rewards is not going to get many people excited once they see how unlikely it is they will get one (especially as the rewards get miniscule with every block having).  But crypto people have a strong interest in making sure networks stay decentralized, just look at all the energy and effort and ink being used on ASIC resistance.  It's a huge, huge topic for us. Which is great because decentralization is what PoT actually does well.

Explaining that PoT is another arrow in the decentralization quiver will be much better received than saying you might randomly get a small amount of free FLT, because enthusiasm for this quickly turns to a cynicism once the whole story comes out about how rare that free payout actually is.

Or better yet, rethink the whole concept of PoT to make it much more spectacular than it already is.  If, say (just spitballing here), all PoT rewards accrued to a secured escrow "network owned" wallet somewhere and that wallet built up a large pool that randomly paid out like an actual lotto jackpot,  people would get very excited about that because they can relate to huge rewards that are extremely rare much more than small rewards that are kind of rare.  

Good points... this is why I am making PoT less rare, but at the same time harder to "game".  Wan't it to be nearly all PoW blocks, pay less (but really pay much much more over the span of say 200 blocks than it would at the 50% reward split now)

[LeBarton]

I got one PoT reward in March, and that's all. It's very hard to get PoT, you should be extremely lucky. This is the reason I don't understand why some people praise it so much. Yes, theoretically it's great, yes, it's a new feature (and I like innovations), and yes, you might catch this PoT... some day, somewhere, somehow... but in general for me personally it's almost non-existent and unimportant.

As of now I'd give more praise to PoS than to PoT because PoS can bring you a real profit while PoT is just a lottery with a small prize, and this prize will get lower and lower with block reward halving because PoS gives you 50% of the current PoW block reward. Let's say, If you could possibly win a $10 prize once a year would it really matter to you?

I'd like to see PoT given some kind of sliding scale so that every transaction can pay back a tiny amount (even if it's just barely a few satoshis or fluttaishis or whatever) or you can elect to notch it up to larger payouts that are more and more random.  That way if you want to take chances for fun, sure go for it and set it to 2500 FLT at max odds, or set it to 1 FLT at guaranteed odds - in both cases the minimum Xfer to qualify should be appropriate as well, i.e. the 1 FLT payout requires 100 FLT transfer.  I realize that PoT is basically a kind of one-transaction-at-a-time iterative mining process so the randomness of PoT rewards is derived from the natural randomness of mining a block. Given this, a PoT peer to peer reward pool might need to exist to take large PoT rewards and pool them into payout streams in order to make PoT 'feel' more like a reward system and less like a lottery for those who aren't really into the chance reward concept (which I suspect is most people).  

I agree with this statement that the PoT system needs to change to make it actually useful. I understand the concern about bots creating wallets and sending transactions back and forth 24/7 to trigger the PoT if it were made easier, but couldn't having some kind of Captcha recognition built in to mitigate that scenario?

No - PoT is determined by the mined block, and also this would eliminate all transactions originated via merchants.

But likely it will be made easier after the rewards drop - but the reward for PoT will also drop in turn - and the minimum transaction value will stay particularly high so transaction fees will eat up any potential rewards via automated systems.

Also, PoT usefulness is more than the reward's its more about security.

Perhaps you need to think of decoupling the PoT from the mined block...allow for more frequent rewards based on transactions so that it can gain more support to actually be used as a currency. If PoT were made more attractive, there'd be no reason not to use FLT like a currency and spend/receive. There is no other coin offering this benefit, but the way it is designed right now is not very effective for gaining interest in using it as a currency. In it's current format, it's way over hyped since so few ppl even receive a PoT reward...

I get what you are saying and agree that PoT is in need of some kind of rethinking to make it more generalized so that it is attractive to users for spending.  

But I don't think PoT can be decouple from mining because PoT *is* a form of mining.  The reward comes from the same place (and is subject to the same randomizing factors) that mining rewards come from - the 'mining' of a block.  And recall that mining's main purpose is to secure the blockchain by confirming transactions, the minting of coin (and distribution of it in the form of block rewards as compensation for the cost of transaction processing and keeping a costly full node running to bolster the network) is a secondary function.  

PoT is basically mining, but driven by transactions. You can think of PoW as non-stop mining, while PoT is iterative, mining a tiny bit on every transaction.  

PoT, like PoS, is first and foremost intended to decentralize the network away from dedicated mining by offloading the work of transaction confirmation processing from dedicated mining rigs and spreading it out to edge users and wallets.  

 PoS staking interest, like PoT rewards, is a form of compensation for keeping a node open to support the network (PoS) and using the coin to drive the economy the network supports (PoT)

In that sense it goes even farther toward the goals of "ASIC resistance" and decentralization than any of these new PoW algos like Scrypt-N and X11, Jane, etc.  Those algos merely put up passive barriers to slow the ASIC army's advance, whereas PoT and PoS actively starve it into submission.

I think the problem with PoT is the message - it is very confusing at first, and it can turn off a lot of people because the way it is presented sounds like it either won't work (and cannot be readily tested to prove it does), or even if it works it won't matter in any meaningful way.  What does Butterfly Effect actually mean in real terms of benefits to users, or miners, or investors or even merchants?  

A narrative focusing on very random and rare (and thus 'unbankable') PoT rewards is not going to get many people excited once they see how unlikely it is they will get one (especially as the rewards get miniscule with every block having).  But crypto people have a strong interest in making sure networks stay decentralized, just look at all the energy and effort and ink being used on ASIC resistance.  It's a huge, huge topic for us. Which is great because decentralization is what PoT actually does well.

Explaining that PoT is another arrow in the decentralization quiver will be much better received than saying you might randomly get a small amount of free FLT, because enthusiasm for this quickly turns to a cynicism once the whole story comes out about how rare that free payout actually is.

Or better yet, rethink the whole concept of PoT to make it much more spectacular than it already is.  If, say (just spitballing here), all PoT rewards accrued to a secured escrow "network owned" wallet somewhere and that wallet built up a large pool that randomly paid out like an actual lotto jackpot,  people would get very excited about that because they can relate to huge rewards that are extremely rare much more than small rewards that are kind of rare.  

Good points... this is why I am making PoT less rare, but at the same time harder to "game".  Wan't it to be nearly all PoW blocks, pay less (but really pay much much more over the span of say 200 blocks than it would at the 50% reward split now)

Really good job dev! Thanks for all your efforts

[fedmahnkassad]

Any reason to the selloff this morning? Kinda strange turn for this coin, has been pretty steady recently and I saw good uptrends last few days.

Now this?  Why...

Now it makes me buy even more FLT, Top 30 here I come!!!

Guys, you worry too much. Just sit back and enjoy the ride until the block reward reaches a static 20. This is when the real fun starts.

[Edraket31]

When is that block reward?

[Rumhurius]

Block 1 - 3263: Random 500 5000 (1 minute blocks)
    Block 3264 - 22000: Random 1000 10000 (Begin 2 minute blocks)
    Block 22001 - 34750: Static reward 5000
    Block 34751 - 39791: Static reward 2500
    Block 39792 - 44832: Static reward 1250
    Block 44833 - 49873: Static reward 625
    Block 49874 - 54914: Static reward 312.50
    Block 54915 - 59955: Static reward 156.25
    Block 59956 - 64996: Static reward 78.125
    Block 64997 - 70037: Static reward 39.0625
    Block 70038 - 332838: static reward 20
    Halving every 262800 blocks

Now we are at 43k something.
almost 1/3 Pricedrop is stewpid anyways.

But this will turn out good on the long run.+1

[Rumhurius]

Block 1 - 3263: Random 500 5000 (1 minute blocks)
    Block 3264 - 22000: Random 1000 10000 (Begin 2 minute blocks)
    Block 22001 - 34750: Static reward 5000
    Block 34751 - 39791: Static reward 2500
    Block 39792 - 44832: Static reward 1250
    Block 44833 - 49873: Static reward 625
    Block 49874 - 54914: Static reward 312.50
    Block 54915 - 59955: Static reward 156.25
    Block 59956 - 64996: Static reward 78.125
    Block 64997 - 70037: Static reward 39.0625
    Block 70038 - 332838: static reward 20
    Halving every 262800 blocks

Now we are at 43k something.
almost 1/3 Pricedrop is stewpid anyways.

But this will turn out good on the long run.+1

How long run ? Time is money

Grow slow, grow strong.
I like the fact that this Coin did not use one of those Pump n Dump Concepts.
Prices are great to buy atm but it can take some time to see results
nuff said

[oddwh]

massive pump 

[Joe Budden]

LOL shortest pump ever he probably got scared when he saw the miners where dumping on his ass

[Rumhurius]

[Stedy]

pumps don't last and are a sign of a low quality product, this coin has longevity and will grow with time. Man, the lack of patience blows me away. I wonder how many of you have actually ever traded stocks or fiat forex? Perhaps you should in order to learn a few things. If you want 'pump and dump's' go play with whitecoin or something.

[alijiba]

so.i think While the fluttercoin multipool buying small amounts there is no way fluttercoin can gain traction.

[Stedy]

Block 1 - 3263: Random 500 5000 (1 minute blocks)
    Block 3264 - 22000: Random 1000 10000 (Begin 2 minute blocks)
    Block 22001 - 34750: Static reward 5000
    Block 34751 - 39791: Static reward 2500
    Block 39792 - 44832: Static reward 1250
    Block 44833 - 49873: Static reward 625
    Block 49874 - 54914: Static reward 312.50
    Block 54915 - 59955: Static reward 156.25
    Block 59956 - 64996: Static reward 78.125
    Block 64997 - 70037: Static reward 39.0625
    Block 70038 - 332838: static reward 20
    Halving every 262800 blocks

Now we are at 43k something.
almost 1/3 Pricedrop is stewpid anyways.

But this will turn out good on the long run.+1

How long run ? Time is money

Grow slow, grow strong.
I like the fact that this Coin did not use one of those Pump n Dump Concepts.
Prices are great to buy atm but it can take some time to see results
nuff said

I really want to beleve that, but so far its been like this:

only from your perspective, it all depends on when you bought and when you plan to sell. Perhaps you just have to have a bit of patience, i'm deep in FLT and buying up more at every opportunity because i know that in time this is going somewhere. Hang in there, this will be good!

[SL1M]

pumps don't last and are a sign of a low quality product, this coin has longevity and will grow with time. Man, the lack of patience blows me away. I wonder how many of you have actually ever traded stocks or fiat forex? Perhaps you should in order to learn a few things. If you want 'pump and dump's' go play with whitecoin or something.

thats right!

[Stedy]

Any reason to the selloff this morning? Kinda strange turn for this coin, has been pretty steady recently and I saw good uptrends last few days.

Now this?  Why...

Now it makes me buy even more FLT, Top 30 here I come!!!

Guys, you worry too much. Just sit back and enjoy the ride until the block reward reaches a static 20. This is when the real fun starts.

Absolutely +1 !