Buy the DIP, and HODL!

[Tungbulu]

The most I've been able to get out of all you've said is entirely correct and true.
You have a tremendous viewpoint of what the DCA strategy is all about (although with some little flaws) and how beneficial it is to those/choose chose to adopt it as their method of Bitcoin accumulation.
Inasmuch as what you've said is correct, it can't always work out as expected, although it could work out most of the times, but not always, due to the unpredictability of the market, you could still split the money into smaller units and still buy through a dip or buy more when prices are high and less when prices are relatively low, which could actually be considered as loss.

It's doesn't really work all the time regardless of the fact fact that it's actually one of the most effective techniques when accumulating bitcoin because by splitting your investment into smaller units and using them to buy at different price points.
This method is very essential because it helps you not to invest too much at the wrong because you're investing in units, and it can also help to stabilize your emotion and balance it a lil bit more in the middle of a market fluctuation.

Hey do you want to do an experiment on the difference of opinion. Maybe we could setup a thread with the two of us in, and setup some rules for the experiment. Im totally open to discussing and defining the rules but i was thinking something like this

Term - 12 months, split into 52 weekly time frames
Budget(Imaginary) - $5200
Exchange - Bitstamp for pricing buys
Changes Allowed - Sundays only and require to be posted on the thread.

I set dca up for a fixed weekly buy, at 5pm UTC on a Monday every week, and then record the imaginary btc amount in the thread. I can change my dca amount any week by posting in the thread on Sunday only  but cannot go past the Budget of $5200.

You post every Sunday in the thread with your market limit buys targeting your dip targets for that week Mon - Sun , if any hit during the week, you record the btc amount & price paid in the thread. You can cancel your limit buy orders after they stayed active for at least one week. You can set any amount to the limit buy orders but cannot go past the budget of $5200.

At year end we tally the total amount BTC, AVG Price, $Spent and see how we did.

This is not a bet/wagering opportunity just a simple experiment. Others ofc can bet on the outcomes tho.

Any interest?

If the reason for this experiment is to prove to me that DCA strategy is much more effective than trying to time the market, then I'm fully much aware of that fact, I'm a big fan of DCA, and that's the only strategy I preach to people who indicate interest in knowing the best strategy for bitcoin accumulation.

I don't know if you misunderstood my explanation, but all I'm trying to do is outline few disadvantages that could be seen while using the DCA approach, I wasn't trying to discredit its viability or effectiveness. We can all agree (except maybe for those who have a problem with me ) that no matter how effective a strategy is, it also has its prons and cons and that is the fact im trying to state, not discredit the effectiveness of the DCA strategy.
I think we both know what the outcome of this experiment would be, because DCA would always be much more effective and safer than trying to time the market ( that I know for sure).
But if you're still interested on doing this experiment not to prove it to me but to show other newbies who are new and are looking for the best approach to employ in their bitcoin accumulation, then I'll review the terms of the experiment and then get back to you soon enough.

First of all congrats on your new Full member rank!

What I see here is that you are trying to go on a bet with Tungbulu, but I'll tell you he is not ready yet, I feel most of the strategies he speaks about he does not practice it, but this is a challenge window and it is open for anyone who thinks his idea on bitcoin investment is valid. After all, we are all here to learn and correct our past mistakes or see opinions from other members.

I am really interested in the bet/wagering, I believe it will be more than just an experiment as a good accumulation would be gotten based on the term which is obviously a year period. You both can start I could use your strategies and play around with my new long-term goal. Besides by now Tungbulu would has suppose to respond to this.

I see you have nothing to do other than pick on someone who isn't even your size, I would've chosen to just ignore this because it would've been better, but I'll bring myself down to your level and reply.
Honestly I really don't know and still trying to figure out what your problem with me is. Anyways, everyone is entitled to their own personal opinion about others and I wouldn't bother trying to change that. I've noticed you've just been trying to bully me with every single opportunity you get, the whole time.
First it was you trying to bully me over an error I respectfully accepted and corrected (like I'm supposed to be above errors).
Secondly, you suddenly feel I'm really not practicing any of the strategies I preach or talk about here.
Thirdly, I didn't know there was a specific time given to reply a message that was directed to me and not you, the sender isn't even complaining about my not yet replying and you're the one showing concern ovee what is of no concern to you.

I hate being picked on, if you observed I've erred in some way, then there are better ways to do it than making yourself look like you're picking on me because I don't think I've insulted or disrespected you in anyway, so Mate if you've got something against me or something to get off your chest, spill it and let's address it as men, rather than acting like a high school bully, cos this place is obviously not high school.

For me there is no point of getting into any challenge with any fellow who thinks he knows it all and refuse to listen to the voice of reason. Majority of us here know that the DCA method is more effective and of course it is a stand out method which has remained valid for many years. If you have tried your best to educate someone and the person refuse to learn, just let the him or her keep languishing in ignorance. There is no point for this challenge, what if tomorrow another person comes up with another argument will you also start a thread with that person. The best we can do for people is educate them but if they don't want to learn we move ahead and leave them. Remember you can take a horse to the stream but you can't for the horse to drink from the stream.

This is becoming pretty interesting, it appears a lot of people have really misunderstood me.
I wouldn't wanna believe that you also have a problem with me, instead I'll just assume this is all a big misconception.
If you go through my posts, you'll see that I'm a big canvasser of the DCA strategy and how effective it is, so I really don't know where all of this is coming from about me being against the DCA strategy.

First of, I don't believe I know it all, because if I do, then I wouldn't be here interacting and trying to share knowledge, all I've dome is share my own perspective of things, and not claim to know more than anyone here, so forgive me if you have such a misconception about me.

Secondly, majority of the people here, just as you've stated, knows that DCA strategy is quite effective and more viable than every other technique, and I'm very much aware of this fact.
I don't know if you feel I'm disagreeing with that fact, but I'm obviously not.

Thirdly, I believe this is the first time you're quoting me, so what's this about correcting me and refusing to take corrections, because I really don't get it.
But at least we agree on two things, and that is, DCA strategy is the best when it comes to Bitcoin accumulation, compared to timing the market, and that there's no point for this experiment is the only reason is to prove to me that DCA is better than Timing the market, except of course there's something else we are trying to prove here.

[teamsherry]

Hey do you want to do an experiment on the difference of opinion. Maybe we could setup a thread with the two of us in, and setup some rules for the experiment. Im totally open to discussing and defining the rules but i was thinking something like this

Term - 12 months, split into 52 weekly time frames
Budget(Imaginary) - $5200
Exchange - Bitstamp for pricing buys
Changes Allowed - Sundays only and require to be posted on the thread.

I set dca up for a fixed weekly buy, at 5pm UTC on a Monday every week, and then record the imaginary btc amount in the thread. I can change my dca amount any week by posting in the thread on Sunday only  but cannot go past the Budget of $5200.

You post every Sunday in the thread with your market limit buys targeting your dip targets for that week Mon - Sun , if any hit during the week, you record the btc amount & price paid in the thread. You can cancel your limit buy orders after they stayed active for at least one week. You can set any amount to the limit buy orders but cannot go past the budget of $5200.

At year end we tally the total amount BTC, AVG Price, $Spent and see how we did.

This is not a bet/wagering opportunity just a simple experiment. Others ofc can bet on the outcomes tho.

Any interest?

First of all congrats on your new Full member rank!

What I see here is that you are trying to go on a bet with Tungbulu, but I'll tell you he is not ready yet, I feel most of the strategies he speaks about he does not practice it, but this is a challenge window and it is open for anyone who thinks his idea on bitcoin investment is valid. After all, we are all here to learn and correct our past mistakes or see opinions from other members.

I am really interested in the bet/wagering, I believe it will be more than just an experiment as a good accumulation would be gotten based on the term which is obviously a year period. You both can start I could use your strategies and play around with my new long-term goal. Besides by now Tungbulu would has suppose to respond to this.

Well I would prefer to tell you guys not to bet at all cause I know a gamble can be and one of you guys might take it too serious and get yourself into trouble, but if you guys would agree to do this just for a learning experience then it's nice, we could all learn from the comparison of both strategies, but I hardly see the need and I don't know how rich you guys are, but DCA has already proven to be a better method than most cause it supports all kind of investors, rich and average, newbie and experienced, and i have already b using it for myself, I've hardly tried any other strategy yer and I'm still keeping funds in my reserves for buying on dip, you guys can knock yourselves out as long as you stay and track and dint take this too far.

[Uhwuchukwu53]

Hey do you want to do an experiment on the difference of opinion. Maybe we could setup a thread with the two of us in, and setup some rules for the experiment. Im totally open to discussing and defining the rules but i was thinking something like this

Term - 12 months, split into 52 weekly time frames
Budget(Imaginary) - $5200
Exchange - Bitstamp for pricing buys
Changes Allowed - Sundays only and require to be posted on the thread.

I set dca up for a fixed weekly buy, at 5pm UTC on a Monday every week, and then record the imaginary btc amount in the thread. I can change my dca amount any week by posting in the thread on Sunday only  but cannot go past the Budget of $5200.

You post every Sunday in the thread with your market limit buys targeting your dip targets for that week Mon - Sun , if any hit during the week, you record the btc amount & price paid in the thread. You can cancel your limit buy orders after they stayed active for at least one week. You can set any amount to the limit buy orders but cannot go past the budget of $5200.

At year end we tally the total amount BTC, AVG Price, $Spent and see how we did.

This is not a bet/wagering opportunity just a simple experiment. Others ofc can bet on the outcomes tho.

Any interest?

First of all congrats on your new Full member rank!

What I see here is that you are trying to go on a bet with Tungbulu, but I'll tell you he is not ready yet, I feel most of the strategies he speaks about he does not practice it, but this is a challenge window and it is open for anyone who thinks his idea on bitcoin investment is valid. After all, we are all here to learn and correct our past mistakes or see opinions from other members.

I am really interested in the bet/wagering, I believe it will be more than just an experiment as a good accumulation would be gotten based on the term which is obviously a year period. You both can start I could use your strategies and play around with my new long-term goal. Besides by now Tungbulu would has suppose to respond to this.

Well I would prefer to tell you guys not to bet at all cause I know a gamble can be and one of you guys might take it too serious and get yourself into trouble, but if you guys would agree to do this just for a learning experience then it's nice, we could all learn from the comparison of both strategies, but I hardly see the need and I don't know how rich you guys are, but DCA has already proven to be a better method than most cause it supports all kind of investors, rich and average, newbie and experienced, and i have already b using it for myself, I've hardly tried any other strategy yer and I'm still keeping funds in my reserves for buying on dip, you guys can knock yourselves out as long as you stay and track and dint take this too far.

For me focus on DCA as one of best option is good but can't advise any one not to give a trial what it's heart desires because life is a risk and only those who knows it's and give it a trial strives.this remind me in our argument of diversifying where we argue much different people knows how they handle there own loss or risk they venture into trying to restrict person on what he made if made to do is like infregement to it's right, even why people see the DCA as the best strategy some still make use of lumps sum, why some still trade I think everyone do things according to how it's capacity can carry , this is why different management strategies are in existence by different individual.

[Tungbulu]

Well I would prefer to tell you guys not to bet at all cause I know a gamble can be and one of you guys might take it too serious and get yourself into trouble.

This is merely just a demonstration not a bet. It was meant to be an experiment to practically figuring out which strategy is more effective, Time the Market or DCA. So people who argue that DCA isn't a better option than Timing the market could look at the practical example and also make their assessment and observations with the visual and practical example provided.
So it wasn't supposed to be a bet or an avenue for arguments.

[Mayor of ogba]

The most I've been able to get out of all you've said is entirely correct and true.
You have a tremendous viewpoint of what the DCA strategy is all about (although with some little flaws) and how beneficial it is to those/choose chose to adopt it as their method of Bitcoin accumulation.
Inasmuch as what you've said is correct, it can't always work out as expected, although it could work out most of the times, but not always, due to the unpredictability of the market, you could still split the money into smaller units and still buy through a dip or buy more when prices are high and less when prices are relatively low, which could actually be considered as loss.

It's doesn't really work all the time regardless of the fact fact that it's actually one of the most effective techniques when accumulating bitcoin because by splitting your investment into smaller units and using them to buy at different price points.
This method is very essential because it helps you not to invest too much at the wrong because you're investing in units, and it can also help to stabilize your emotion and balance it a lil bit more in the middle of a market fluctuation.

Hey do you want to do an experiment on the difference of opinion. Maybe we could setup a thread with the two of us in, and setup some rules for the experiment. Im totally open to discussing and defining the rules but i was thinking something like this

Term - 12 months, split into 52 weekly time frames
Budget(Imaginary) - $5200
Exchange - Bitstamp for pricing buys
Changes Allowed - Sundays only and require to be posted on the thread.

I set dca up for a fixed weekly buy, at 5pm UTC on a Monday every week, and then record the imaginary btc amount in the thread. I can change my dca amount any week by posting in the thread on Sunday only  but cannot go past the Budget of $5200.

You post every Sunday in the thread with your market limit buys targeting your dip targets for that week Mon - Sun , if any hit during the week, you record the btc amount & price paid in the thread. You can cancel your limit buy orders after they stayed active for at least one week. You can set any amount to the limit buy orders but cannot go past the budget of $5200.

At year end we tally the total amount BTC, AVG Price, $Spent and see how we did.

This is not a bet/wagering opportunity just a simple experiment. Others ofc can bet on the outcomes tho.

Any interest?

I know you want to show Tungbulu that the DCA strategy is the best strategy to use for accumulating bitcoin. I see no reason for doing that if he doesn't want to only accumulate bitcoin with the DCA strategy. You can adopt a strategy that can work for you in accumulating bitcoin, provided you will not sell your bitcoin before the maturity time because of a pressing issue. Since the experiment is for one year, you might be on the losing side since bitcoin halving has passed. You might accumulate most of your bitcoin at a very high price within one year. Soon we will not see the price of bitcoin at this price, so Tungbulu can seize this opportunity that the bitcoin price is at $60k plus to lump sum in bitcoin with $2k from the $5200 you guys set outside. Tungbulu will be left with $3200 that he can use to buy bitcoin when there is a dip and still accumulate with the DCA strategy. Before you can finish your $5200 in 52 weeks, you might be accumulating your bitcoin when it has entered six digits, which will be expensive for you at that time. There's a big possibility that Tungbulu will accumulate more bitcoin than you if you guys go on with this bet.

[wmaurik]

This is merely just a demonstration not a bet. It was meant to be an experiment to practically figuring out which strategy is more effective, Time the Market or DCA. So people who argue that DCA isn't a better option than Timing the market could look at the practical example and also make their assessment and observations with the visual and practical example provided.
So it wasn't supposed to be a bet or an avenue for arguments.

In terms of using a strategy, there really is no need for debate between one person and another as long as what we use is the correct strategy and is truly comfortable for each of us. DCA is still considered good today, especially in terms of buy the dip and hodl which is still a good goal for everyone so there is no need for any debate other than just to discuss it in more depth at this time. Because sometimes there are also people who don't want to use that strategy at this time, but those people still really like to buy on the dip and hold it as much as possible.

[Tungbulu]

The most I've been able to get out of all you've said is entirely correct and true.
You have a tremendous viewpoint of what the DCA strategy is all about (although with some little flaws) and how beneficial it is to those/choose chose to adopt it as their method of Bitcoin accumulation.
Inasmuch as what you've said is correct, it can't always work out as expected, although it could work out most of the times, but not always, due to the unpredictability of the market, you could still split the money into smaller units and still buy through a dip or buy more when prices are high and less when prices are relatively low, which could actually be considered as loss.

It's doesn't really work all the time regardless of the fact fact that it's actually one of the most effective techniques when accumulating bitcoin because by splitting your investment into smaller units and using them to buy at different price points.
This method is very essential because it helps you not to invest too much at the wrong because you're investing in units, and it can also help to stabilize your emotion and balance it a lil bit more in the middle of a market fluctuation.

Hey do you want to do an experiment on the difference of opinion. Maybe we could setup a thread with the two of us in, and setup some rules for the experiment. Im totally open to discussing and defining the rules but i was thinking something like this

Term - 12 months, split into 52 weekly time frames
Budget(Imaginary) - $5200
Exchange - Bitstamp for pricing buys
Changes Allowed - Sundays only and require to be posted on the thread.

I set dca up for a fixed weekly buy, at 5pm UTC on a Monday every week, and then record the imaginary btc amount in the thread. I can change my dca amount any week by posting in the thread on Sunday only  but cannot go past the Budget of $5200.

You post every Sunday in the thread with your market limit buys targeting your dip targets for that week Mon - Sun , if any hit during the week, you record the btc amount & price paid in the thread. You can cancel your limit buy orders after they stayed active for at least one week. You can set any amount to the limit buy orders but cannot go past the budget of $5200.

At year end we tally the total amount BTC, AVG Price, $Spent and see how we did.

This is not a bet/wagering opportunity just a simple experiment. Others ofc can bet on the outcomes tho.

Any interest?

I know you want to show Tungbulu that the DCA strategy is the best strategy to use for accumulating bitcoin. I see no reason for doing that if he doesn't want to only accumulate bitcoin with the DCA strategy. You can adopt a strategy that can work for you in accumulating bitcoin, provided you will not sell your bitcoin before the maturity time because of a pressing issue. Since the experiment is for one year, you might be on the losing side since bitcoin halving has passed. You might accumulate most of your bitcoin at a very high price within one year. Soon we will not see the price of bitcoin at this price, so Tungbulu can seize this opportunity that the bitcoin price is at $60k plus to lump sum in bitcoin with $2k from the $5200 you guys set outside. Tungbulu will be left with $3200 that he can use to buy bitcoin when there is a dip and still accumulate with the DCA strategy. Before you can finish your $5200 in 52 weeks, you might be accumulating your bitcoin when it has entered six digits, which will be expensive for you at that time. There's a big possibility that Tungbulu will accumulate more bitcoin than you if you guys go on with this bet.

Did you take a look at my earliest posts here? I mean my response to the post of Greyhats that you quoted, because you seem to still be missing the point, the experiment isn't to convince me that DCA is a more viable and more effective approach, compared to Timing the market, and not even about Tungbulu considering an alternative approach for accumulating Bitcoin. It's just an experiment to state state and prove a point for general learning.

In terms of using a strategy, there really is no need for debate between one person and another

Again, this isn't a debate neither is it a contest between two strategies.
It's merely just a demonstration for general learning, not a means to settle an argument or debate.

[Perfectbaby]

Aggressive approach may sometimes bad if you don't know what you are doing but there are times that its good to execute this especially if our knowledge is enough and you have confident that there's something good will happen on your bitcoin investment in long period of time.

Like I said agresive approach is not bad expecially if you are capable of it. And there is no special skill or knowledge required what really matters is where you get you source of income from. You may not be well knowledgeable about bitcoin but provided you have a higher paying job that can be able for you to increase your investment strategy, you are good to go.  Let me say a person who receive $1300 as a salary may be investing $50 on DCA weekly or $100 depending on his programming. He may as well increase it to $300 weekly if he has a higher paying job of $4000 so it may seam to be an aggressive investment but it's not a bad one because he is capable to invest and have enough in his discretionary or reserved and floats. When it can be addressed as a bad aggressive Investment is when he is aiming $1300 and investing $200 weekly.

Investment are made according someone capacity to accept risk and lost, anyone who investing around $200 weekly is depending on their level of risk and not about what they are earning per months. Let just take for example as you had already explained above, someone earning 1300$ per month and aiming at investing $200 per week, this implies that 200$ x 4 (4 weeks as 1 month) is equal to $800 and he is now left with $500, to me there is nothing wrong with this and I don't see it as aggressive approach because since the balance can foot his bill or sustain him while the next salaries comes and what we must understand is that the money his is using for DCA is not a wasted resources and can be easily gotten back if he wants provided that bitcoin prices is on positive side. What I easily sees as aggressive investment is when someone receives salaries and wanting to put all into DCA and later run began to dip hands into investment for his upkeep and as a reserved funds.

[promise444c5]

Here DCA method should be done in such a way that you can hold for 5-10 to 12 years. You have to have a plan, participate in more investments, the longer you hold Bitcoin, the more you can improve, because if you look at the present time, you will surely find the solution to all the problems yourself.

Well, you're  quite right about the investment plan duration, bitcoin  investment  can be sustained  above the duration you've  mentioned  because  it isn't just any kind of coin that could dump overnight and AFAIK , Bitcoin has always been a good example of a good investment at large ......
However, on average  we could take that duration  but even after then total withdrawal shouldn't  be done but withdrawal strategies could be use to sustain  investment

[Mayor of ogba]

Invest on what you can afford to lose as always as yet this is the primary rule when it comes to investment which specifically means that its not ideal on spending up the funds which are intended to pay up your monthly bull. Investing is really that reflecting out on your financial capacity on whatever means you would really be getting it but if we do speak about that sole income source then having this kind of investment set-up would really be that a huge challenge. So in the end of the day it would really be just that depending on you on how you would really be handling up yourself when it comes to investment decision

Well investing with what you can afford to lose is nice, but still to me is going to reduce the rate of one accummulation of Bitcoin. For instance the money one may agree to risk may be as small as $10 weekly as DCAing,which may take some time to turn to something nice , expecially this time around Bitcoin price is high , so that amount won't be able to coverup some nice quantities in the individual accumulating phase.

So to me the right thing is that one can start his accummulation or investment of bitcoin with what he or she can afford to lose, as time goes on after understanding more and seeing the beauty of Bitcoin he or she can increase his rate of Accumulating without any fear of losing that much aslong he or she possess some good discretionary income. Because alot of investors have use such mindset to affect their investment negatively when it comes to accumulating. Tho one should accumulate in a way that he or she won't over doing it leading them in putting their hands in their emergency funds. But still one should try to be as aggressive he or she can .

There's should be a improvement and the accumulation rate should go higher and the timeline of accumulation should depends if you have reserve fund to spend since with this you may get more better result.

Ofocus yes there must be enough reserved fund to be able  to get a better result in terms of increasing your DCA strategy. I think what I_Anime said is true about increasing your DCA accumulation as time goes on. Sometimes issues like this need to be raised for people to get a point that DCA strategy is not just being accustomed to $10 weekly, when JJG emphasis on $10 weekly he assumes it as minimum which may as well increase in due time after people may have increased there reserved fund. If people are sticked to that minimum $10 weekly they may never yeald a good accumulation power and year ofcus btc price is increasing steadily and a time will come where the minimum DCA amount will not be even enough to buy a goods numbers of SATs considering the current or future price of Bitcoin. so there is need to increase our accumulation process to boost our portfolio. surely overdoing it is not when you have enough to invest in bitcoin and having enough for reserved and floats without investing, overdoing is when you don have enough and you try to invest what you can't afford, or Investing agresive with all you have and may come back to sell your HODLing. So investing agresively is good when you are capable of doing it.

I think having enough reserve funds should not be the reason why we should increase our DCA accumulation plan. Reserve funds should be used for unexpected problems and sometimes to buy bitcoin dips that you will not like to miss. We can increase our DCA accumulation plan if, along the accumulation process, things get better for us, like having a good income source that allows us to increase our DCA accumulation plan and be able to maintain emergency funds, reserve funds, float, and also solve our living expenses.

[avp2306]

Invest on what you can afford to lose as always as yet this is the primary rule when it comes to investment which specifically means that its not ideal on spending up the funds which are intended to pay up your monthly bull. Investing is really that reflecting out on your financial capacity on whatever means you would really be getting it but if we do speak about that sole income source then having this kind of investment set-up would really be that a huge challenge. So in the end of the day it would really be just that depending on you on how you would really be handling up yourself when it comes to investment decision

Well investing with what you can afford to lose is nice, but still to me is going to reduce the rate of one accummulation of Bitcoin. For instance the money one may agree to risk may be as small as $10 weekly as DCAing,which may take some time to turn to something nice , expecially this time around Bitcoin price is high , so that amount won't be able to coverup some nice quantities in the individual accumulating phase.

So to me the right thing is that one can start his accummulation or investment of bitcoin with what he or she can afford to lose, as time goes on after understanding more and seeing the beauty of Bitcoin he or she can increase his rate of Accumulating without any fear of losing that much aslong he or she possess some good discretionary income. Because alot of investors have use such mindset to affect their investment negatively when it comes to accumulating. Tho one should accumulate in a way that he or she won't over doing it leading them in putting their hands in their emergency funds. But still one should try to be as aggressive he or she can .

There's should be a improvement and the accumulation rate should go higher and the timeline of accumulation should depends if you have reserve fund to spend since with this you may get more better result.

Ofocus yes there must be enough reserved fund to be able  to get a better result in terms of increasing your DCA strategy. I think what I_Anime said is true about increasing your DCA accumulation as time goes on. Sometimes issues like this need to be raised for people to get a point that DCA strategy is not just being accustomed to $10 weekly, when JJG emphasis on $10 weekly he assumes it as minimum which may as well increase in due time after people may have increased there reserved fund. If people are sticked to that minimum $10 weekly they may never yeald a good accumulation power and year ofcus btc price is increasing steadily and a time will come where the minimum DCA amount will not be even enough to buy a goods numbers of SATs considering the current or future price of Bitcoin. so there is need to increase our accumulation process to boost our portfolio. surely overdoing it is not when you have enough to invest in bitcoin and having enough for reserved and floats without investing, overdoing is when you don have enough and you try to invest what you can't afford, or Investing agresive with all you have and may come back to sell your HODLing. So investing agresively is good when you are capable of doing it.

I think having enough reserve funds should not be the reason why we should increase our DCA accumulation plan. Reserve funds should be used for unexpected problems and sometimes to buy bitcoin dips that you will not like to miss. We can increase our DCA accumulation plan if, along the accumulation process, things get better for us, like having a good income source that allows us to increase our DCA accumulation plan and be able to maintain emergency funds, reserve funds, float, and also solve our living expenses.

If there's unexpected problems will came then the emergency funds will do its job to help you recover on your financial difficulties that's why you have that so you can use it for any emergency situation. Reserve funds is the extra money you have on hand which you are ready to dispose on anything you want especially to increase the size of your investment. We can really increase our accumulation for that especially if we got a  extra funds came from one of our participated side jobs. That's why a proper budgeting is really important since if you don't have proper management on your finances then expect you will experience some mess on budgeting since for sure you can't track on where you spend your money.

[SmartGold01]

If there's unexpected problems will came then the emergency funds will do its job to help you recover on your financial difficulties that's why you have that so you can use it for any emergency situation. Reserve funds is the extra money you have on hand which you are ready to dispose on anything you want especially to increase the size of your investment. We can really increase our accumulation for that especially if we got a  extra funds came from one of our participated side jobs. That's why a proper budgeting is really important since if you don't have proper management on your finances then expect you will experience some mess on budgeting since for sure you can't track on where you spend your money.

Any one who understood about investment will also put something in consideration to enable them have backup this helps them in all their difficulties to enable them achieved their investment processes, as well as keep accumulating bitcoin while their incomes comes at every month ending or weekly this also positioned them in a better chance to either increase their holdings at the month is ending or as the week is coming to an ends. The main thing is to have the goal running for long time provided they won't be a haste to go sell of the bitcoin in their possession and this is one thing affecting investors not to succeed for long run as they can't be patient enough to hold for long period.

[Obim34]

This is merely just a demonstration not a bet. It was meant to be an experiment to practically figuring out which strategy is more effective, Time the Market or DCA. So people who argue that DCA isn't a better option than Timing the market could look at the practical example and also make their assessment and observations with the visual and practical example provided.
So it wasn't supposed to be a bet or an avenue for arguments.

In terms of using a strategy, there really is no need for debate between one person and another as long as what we use is the correct strategy and is truly comfortable for each of us. DCA is still considered good today, especially in terms of buy the dip and hodl which is still a good goal for everyone so there is no need for any debate other than just to discuss it in more depth at this time. Because sometimes there are also people who don't want to use that strategy at this time, but those people still really like to buy on the dip and hold it as much as possible.

I see no reason for the whole debate, most people are usually open to learn from others while others prefer to hold unto what they believe and seems to have been working for them. Every user here has his/her own choice to make, free on their decision as the funds to be used to invest is first of all worked hard by them now they are left wether to DCA or perhaps any other that they find suitable. In depth of everything, our sole reason is to accumulate Bitcoin and we perform various strategies so that we can be able to ascertain better portions, in various strategies applied we surely end up with portions of Bitcoin in our wallets.

[Jerrycrypto2024]

Invest on what you can afford to lose as always as yet this is the primary rule when it comes to investment which specifically means that its not ideal on spending up the funds which are intended to pay up your monthly bull. Investing is really that reflecting out on your financial capacity on whatever means you would really be getting it but if we do speak about that sole income source then having this kind of investment set-up would really be that a huge challenge. So in the end of the day it would really be just that depending on you on how you would really be handling up yourself when it comes to investment decision

Well investing with what you can afford to lose is nice, but still to me is going to reduce the rate of one accummulation of Bitcoin. For instance the money one may agree to risk may be as small as $10 weekly as DCAing,which may take some time to turn to something nice , expecially this time around Bitcoin price is high , so that amount won't be able to coverup some nice quantities in the individual accumulating phase.

So to me the right thing is that one can start his accummulation or investment of bitcoin with what he or she can afford to lose, as time goes on after understanding more and seeing the beauty of Bitcoin he or she can increase his rate of Accumulating without any fear of losing that much aslong he or she possess some good discretionary income. Because alot of investors have use such mindset to affect their investment negatively when it comes to accumulating. Tho one should accumulate in a way that he or she won't over doing it leading them in putting their hands in their emergency funds. But still one should try to be as aggressive he or she can .

There's should be a improvement and the accumulation rate should go higher and the timeline of accumulation should depends if you have reserve fund to spend since with this you may get more better result.

Ofocus yes there must be enough reserved fund to be able  to get a better result in terms of increasing your DCA strategy. I think what I_Anime said is true about increasing your DCA accumulation as time goes on. Sometimes issues like this need to be raised for people to get a point that DCA strategy is not just being accustomed to $10 weekly, when JJG emphasis on $10 weekly he assumes it as minimum which may as well increase in due time after people may have increased there reserved fund. If people are sticked to that minimum $10 weekly they may never yeald a good accumulation power and year ofcus btc price is increasing steadily and a time will come where the minimum DCA amount will not be even enough to buy a goods numbers of SATs considering the current or future price of Bitcoin. so there is need to increase our accumulation process to boost our portfolio. surely overdoing it is not when you have enough to invest in bitcoin and having enough for reserved and floats without investing, overdoing is when you don have enough and you try to invest what you can't afford, or Investing agresive with all you have and may come back to sell your HODLing. So investing agresively is good when you are capable of doing it.

I think having enough reserve funds should not be the reason why we should increase our DCA accumulation plan. Reserve funds should be used for unexpected problems and sometimes to buy bitcoin dips that you will not like to miss. We can increase our DCA accumulation plan if, along the accumulation process, things get better for us, like having a good income source that allows us to increase our DCA accumulation plan and be able to maintain emergency funds, reserve funds, float, and also solve our living expenses.

If there's unexpected problems will came then the emergency funds will do its job to help you recover on your financial difficulties that's why you have that so you can use it for any emergency situation. Reserve funds is the extra money you have on hand which you are ready to dispose on anything you want especially to increase the size of your investment. We can really increase our accumulation for that especially if we got a  extra funds came from one of our participated side jobs. That's why a proper budgeting is really important since if you don't have proper management on your finances then expect you will experience some mess on budgeting since for sure you can't track on where you spend your money.

I may disagree with you when you say proper budget because it's in turn saying most things is as result of poor budgeting, look budget is a thing of plus and minus no body even organization can't get it right is moreless speculation, there some unforseen circumstances that even in your budget can't capture know body can tell the magnitude because it's unforseen, even when emergency fund is there can't tackle the problem.

In the case if increasing one investment when there is enough reserve fund for me I would have welcome such idea because sometimes our expectations differs at one may start an investment when there is no much source of income and reserve fund and why on the investment begin to have some other means if income increasing the investment is very necessary in as much he never over invest where it become a Borden when emergency arrived, instead of keep so much reserve fund without yield income though it's risky but everything remain risk because keeping so much reserve fund uninvested is waste when there is no emergency to spend it investing it is also a risk because when emergency arrived beyond what you can handle with emergency fund it required to withdraw one only need to choose one because it's a 50-50situation.

[Tmoonz]

Invest on what you can afford to lose as always as yet this is the primary rule when it comes to investment which specifically means that its not ideal on spending up the funds which are intended to pay up your monthly bull. Investing is really that reflecting out on your financial capacity on whatever means you would really be getting it but if we do speak about that sole income source then having this kind of investment set-up would really be that a huge challenge. So in the end of the day it would really be just that depending on you on how you would really be handling up yourself when it comes to investment decision

Well investing with what you can afford to lose is nice, but still to me is going to reduce the rate of one accummulation of Bitcoin. For instance the money one may agree to risk may be as small as $10 weekly as DCAing,which may take some time to turn to something nice , expecially this time around Bitcoin price is high , so that amount won't be able to coverup some nice quantities in the individual accumulating phase.

So to me the right thing is that one can start his accummulation or investment of bitcoin with what he or she can afford to lose, as time goes on after understanding more and seeing the beauty of Bitcoin he or she can increase his rate of Accumulating without any fear of losing that much aslong he or she possess some good discretionary income. Because alot of investors have use such mindset to affect their investment negatively when it comes to accumulating. Tho one should accumulate in a way that he or she won't over doing it leading them in putting their hands in their emergency funds. But still one should try to be as aggressive he or she can .

There's should be a improvement and the accumulation rate should go higher and the timeline of accumulation should depends if you have reserve fund to spend since with this you may get more better result.

Ofocus yes there must be enough reserved fund to be able  to get a better result in terms of increasing your DCA strategy. I think what I_Anime said is true about increasing your DCA accumulation as time goes on. Sometimes issues like this need to be raised for people to get a point that DCA strategy is not just being accustomed to $10 weekly, when JJG emphasis on $10 weekly he assumes it as minimum which may as well increase in due time after people may have increased there reserved fund. If people are sticked to that minimum $10 weekly they may never yeald a good accumulation power and year ofcus btc price is increasing steadily and a time will come where the minimum DCA amount will not be even enough to buy a goods numbers of SATs considering the current or future price of Bitcoin. so there is need to increase our accumulation process to boost our portfolio. surely overdoing it is not when you have enough to invest in bitcoin and having enough for reserved and floats without investing, overdoing is when you don have enough and you try to invest what you can't afford, or Investing agresive with all you have and may come back to sell your HODLing. So investing agresively is good when you are capable of doing it.

I think having enough reserve funds should not be the reason why we should increase our DCA accumulation plan. Reserve funds should be used for unexpected problems and sometimes to buy bitcoin dips that you will not like to miss. We can increase our DCA accumulation plan if, along the accumulation process, things get better for us, like having a good income source that allows us to increase our DCA accumulation plan and be able to maintain emergency funds, reserve funds, float, and also solve our living expenses.

Increasing the amount of our dca and buying the dip, both solely depends on how much of discretional and disposable income and investor have after taken care of his personal needs and provisional emergency funds, the major function of the emergency funds is to take care of unplanned expenses it serves as a safety net for unforseen circumstances while the reserve funds takes care of both plan and unplanned expenses, where an emergency funds is well intact and good enough, a reserve funds can as well be used to increase our dca and also buy the dip depending on how much of the available discretional and disposable income just to ensure that he is comfortablely accumulating his Bitcoin and at the same time taken good care of his personal needs.

[Samlucky O]

Aggressive approach may sometimes bad if you don't know what you are doing but there are times that its good to execute this especially if our knowledge is enough and you have confident that there's something good will happen on your bitcoin investment in long period of time.

Like I said agresive approach is not bad expecially if you are capable of it. And there is no special skill or knowledge required what really matters is where you get you source of income from. You may not be well knowledgeable about bitcoin but provided you have a higher paying job that can be able for you to increase your investment strategy, you are good to go.  Let me say a person who receive $1300 as a salary may be investing $50 on DCA weekly or $100 depending on his programming. He may as well increase it to $300 weekly if he has a higher paying job of $4000 so it may seam to be an aggressive investment but it's not a bad one because he is capable to invest and have enough in his discretionary or reserved and floats. When it can be addressed as a bad aggressive Investment is when he is aiming $1300 and investing $200 weekly.

Investment are made according someone capacity to accept risk and lost, anyone who investing around $200 weekly is depending on their level of risk and not about what they are earning per months.

Before you are called a HODLer, it is assumed that you are already a rist taker who eventually keep investing and HODLing for a long term without thinking of either bearish and bull market. So Increasing your level of weekly investment by $200 surely depends on your level income or salary and there is no doubt about it because if you don't have enough income generation you wouldn't increase the level of you btc portfolio or increase the level of your discretionary. Though most people may have enough amount to invest more but chose to invest little as to avoid risk, but i doubt if those are truely HODLers ofcus such people are traders who looks for opportunities to buy at slight dip and sell the rips.

Let just take for example as you had already explained above, someone earning 1300$ per month and aiming at investing $200 per week, this implies that 200$ x 4 (4 weeks as 1 month) is equal to $800 and he is now left with $500, to me there is nothing wrong with this and I don't see it as aggressive approach because since the balance can foot his bill or sustain him while the next salaries comes and what we must understand is that the money his is using for DCA is not a wasted resources and can be easily gotten back if he wants provided that bitcoin prices is on positive side. What I easily sees as aggressive investment is when someone receives salaries and wanting to put all into DCA and later run began to dip hands into investment for his upkeep and as a reserved funds.

Agresive Investment is not only putting all your fund in bitcoin without having reserved and emergency, sometimes investing %80 of your fund in bitcoin without considering the level of your discretionary and emergency fund can as well be seen as agresive or over doing. like as I explained above if you received $1300 and you invest $200 each every week, making a total of $800 per month left with $500, that is a bad agresive Investment and surely the person is over doing it. because your bitcoin Investment should be don in a manner that you will not over do it. It will definitely affect you or Put you in a tight corner. If you Invest $800 on bitcoin how much will you use for feeding and running family expenses? Or how much will you set aside for emergency and reserved? Surely if you over invest in Bitcoin, the $500 available amount you will not be enough for  emergency and reserved. Definitely it will affect your bitcoin HODLing. Though it depends on you and how you can be able to manage your family. If its you alone you can cope but if it's a large family I doubt if you can manage. The point of the matter is that don't over invest what you can not afford to lose that will make you to sell you bitcoin HODLing down the road because of not having a discretionary fund to back you up.

[red4slash]

This is merely just a demonstration not a bet. It was meant to be an experiment to practically figuring out which strategy is more effective, Time the Market or DCA. So people who argue that DCA isn't a better option than Timing the market could look at the practical example and also make their assessment and observations with the visual and practical example provided.
So it wasn't supposed to be a bet or an avenue for arguments.

In terms of using a strategy, there really is no need for debate between one person and another as long as what we use is the correct strategy and is truly comfortable for each of us. DCA is still considered good today, especially in terms of buy the dip and hodl which is still a good goal for everyone so there is no need for any debate other than just to discuss it in more depth at this time. Because sometimes there are also people who don't want to use that strategy at this time, but those people still really like to buy on the dip and hold it as much as possible.

Indeed, things like that do not need to be debated because after all as long as they are in bitcoin then of course it is a good thing but on the other hand the point of discussions like this is to look for several other options that can be done because in this case sometimes what we think is right can be a wrong thing and a little off the mark and with discussions like this of course we will find a new thing where when we are wrong then there will certainly be someone who reminds us because "above the sky there is a sky" so that when we already know and think what we are doing right there could be some things that must be corrected to make us With a discussion like this, of course, we will find a new thing where when we are wrong then surely there will be someone to remind us because "above the sky there is a sky" so that when we already know and think what we are doing is right there could be some things that must be improved to make us even better in bitcoin adoption, especially with some of the purchase schemes that are always discussed here.

But that does not mean it should be used as a debate because with differences in terms of opinion, we can indeed know which one is lacking from ourselves or we can also tell others who are a little wrong to do things that can benefit more in the end.

[Sim_card]

Aggressive approach may sometimes bad if you don't know what you are doing but there are times that its good to execute this especially if our knowledge is enough and you have confident that there's something good will happen on your bitcoin investment in long period of time.

Like I said agresive approach is not bad expecially if you are capable of it. And there is no special skill or knowledge required what really matters is where you get you source of income from. You may not be well knowledgeable about bitcoin but provided you have a higher paying job that can be able for you to increase your investment strategy, you are good to go.  Let me say a person who receive $1300 as a salary may be investing $50 on DCA weekly or $100 depending on his programming. He may as well increase it to $300 weekly if he has a higher paying job of $4000 so it may seam to be an aggressive investment but it's not a bad one because he is capable to invest and have enough in his discretionary or reserved and floats. When it can be addressed as a bad aggressive Investment is when he is aiming $1300 and investing $200 weekly.

Investment are made according someone capacity to accept risk and lost, anyone who investing around $200 weekly is depending on their level of risk and not about what they are earning per months.

Before you are called a HODLer, it is assumed that you are already a rist taker who eventually keep investing and HODLing for a long term without thinking of either bearish and bull market. So Increasing your level of weekly investment by $200 surely depends on your level income or salary and there is no doubt about it because if you don't have enough income generation you wouldn't increase the level of you btc portfolio or increase the level of your discretionary. Though most people may have enough amount to invest more but chose to invest little as to avoid risk, but i doubt if those are truely HODLers ofcus such people are traders who looks for opportunities to buy at slight dip and sell the rips.

I disagree with you that those who have more than enough funds to invest in bitcoin but choose to invest only little are traders. It is just that they don't have the insight of what the power of bitcoin will be in future based on value, because if they know, they will happily invest aggressively instead of in a whimpy way. Those who invest whimpishly will always regret in the latter when bitcoin price hits a certain level.

Let just take for example as you had already explained above, someone earning 1300$ per month and aiming at investing $200 per week, this implies that 200$ x 4 (4 weeks as 1 month) is equal to $800 and he is now left with $500, to me there is nothing wrong with this and I don't see it as aggressive approach because since the balance can foot his bill or sustain him while the next salaries comes and what we must understand is that the money his is using for DCA is not a wasted resources and can be easily gotten back if he wants provided that bitcoin prices is on positive side. What I easily sees as aggressive investment is when someone receives salaries and wanting to put all into DCA and later run began to dip hands into investment for his upkeep and as a reserved funds.

Agresive Investment is not only putting all your fund in bitcoin without having reserved and emergency, sometimes investing %80 of your fund in bitcoin without considering the level of your discretionary and emergency fund can as well be seen as agresive or over doing. like as I explained above if you received $1300 and you invest $200 each every week, making a total of $800 per month left with $500, that is a bad agresive Investment and surely the person is over doing it. because your bitcoin Investment should be don in a manner that you will not over do it. It will definitely affect you or Put you in a tight corner. If you Invest $800 on bitcoin how much will you use for feeding and running family expenses? Or how much will you set aside for emergency and reserved? Surely if you over invest in Bitcoin, the $500 available amount you will not be enough for  emergency and reserved. Definitely it will affect your bitcoin HODLing. Though it depends on you and how you can be able to manage your family. If its you alone you can cope but if it's a large family I doubt if you can manage. The point of the matter is that don't over invest what you can not afford to lose that will make you to sell you bitcoin HODLing down the road because of not having a discretionary fund to back you up.
[/quote]
You can invest aggressively when you have the funds to do that, the most important thing is that you don't over do it, if not it will affect you, and you will end up selling some part of your bitcoin to conver up some emergencies that will arise. Your emergency funds is good to be in a good position size because that is what will determine how aggressive you will be in buying regularly weekly or monthly.

[Greyhats]

snip

Hey do you want to do an experiment on the difference of opinion. Maybe we could setup a thread with the two of us in, and setup some rules for the experiment. Im totally open to discussing and defining the rules but i was thinking something like this

Term - 12 months, split into 52 weekly time frames
Budget(Imaginary) - $5200
Exchange - Bitstamp for pricing buys
Changes Allowed - Sundays only and require to be posted on the thread.

I set dca up for a fixed weekly buy, at 5pm UTC on a Monday every week, and then record the imaginary btc amount in the thread. I can change my dca amount any week by posting in the thread on Sunday only  but cannot go past the Budget of $5200.

You post every Sunday in the thread with your market limit buys targeting your dip targets for that week Mon - Sun , if any hit during the week, you record the btc amount & price paid in the thread. You can cancel your limit buy orders after they stayed active for at least one week. You can set any amount to the limit buy orders but cannot go past the budget of $5200.

At year end we tally the total amount BTC, AVG Price, $Spent and see how we did.

This is not a bet/wagering opportunity just a simple experiment. Others ofc can bet on the outcomes tho.

Any interest?

I am not sure what point you would be trying to prove.  Maybe you are starting out with $5,200 and you are planning to buy $100 per week in bitcoin, yet of course, you have options to use all of your budget right away or to invest smaller or larger, and then when you get at the end of 52 weeks where are you.

The one thing that always gets me in the variance of opinion, is general the BFTD person goes back in time a picks out a historical period that suits/backsup their  assertation that BFTD is better. Then assert what they would have done to get all the different dips. But in a future price pattern is hard to guess, and really know are you getting it at the correct dip price. When we hit the ATL this cycle, I remember alot of people were waiting for <12k when we are about 15-16k mark, and probably missed the boat. The dca'r would have got some really close to it for a bit. When the market started rising I would be fairly certain the dip buyers probably got in at a higher price some where in the >20k. I think this scenario plays out quite a bit more than people are willing to admit during all cycles, and price volatility in bitcoin.

For the experiment the future market is a complete unknown, for both the dca'r and the dip buyer. It creates a level playing field and simulates reality, I think the experiment would help show some of WCS(woulda,coulda,shoulda) side of dip buying that you dont really have privy too.

Alternatively, you could have someone who buys and sells weekly too, and sure some traders lose their money fairly quickly, but frequently it could take a whole cycle or two to play out.

And yeah, if you are emphasizing buying strategies ONLY, then surely even the variance in buying strategies could also take more than a whole cycle to start out.


I do like the idea of $100 per week, and I like the idea of having a lump sum in the beginning, so there could be someone who starts out in bitcoin and largely knows that he has $100 per week coming in for the next year, so that would add up to $5,200, but maybe he even starts out with another lump sum amount that is $4,800 - so then the total amount over the year is $10k, he has $4,800 available right away, and he has another $100 coming in every week for the next 52 weeks, and still I have some troubles understanding what is being proven by the whole project, since we can go back and back test historical performance on DCA and many times we can see that it may well take many years before the DCA method really shows its power, perhaps a cycle and a half or more.. .yet on shorter timelines, the results may well be a bit more ambiguous, especially the first few years.

buying strategies only, no selling or trading just pure accumulation. I think the term is something could look at changing, I just put something down to start the conversation. Also the $ amount is completely arbitrary, you can slice and dice it anyway ya want. DIP buyer could load up everything into one buy right now if they truly believe the current price is the maximum dip in the next 12 months.  

Another thing there can be various ways to deal with the initial lump sum including buying right way, add it into the DCA or set some or all of it aside for buying on dips, and even if one method performs better than another, there might not be any real way to argue that it was better merely because it performed better, since in the end, the best system is one in which the guy has comfortably tailored his ways of accumulating bitcoin, and surely some of the buys on dips may or may not end up filling. but that does not necessarily mean the guy did anything right or wrong based on performance in something like a 1 year timeline.

By the way, there have been so many forum threads in which a forum member says that he is going to buy bitcoin regularly and track his portfolio as he builds such BTC portfolio, and many of those kinds of threads don't even last half a year, even though surely they can be very popular kinds of threads, and they probably would be even better if they were pursued and followed through for something like a whole cycle or even longer.

Absolutely agree, there is so many different ways to approach your accumulation strategy. Lump sum, dip buying, dca etc they all ultimately help you get to your accumulation target. Its not so much about which one performs better, I'm just interested in a future unknown how well will dip WCS buys at.  Like i said above its too easy to go back into historical data and say oh yeah i definitely would have done that when in reality they probably didn't.

Yeah people could back out of the thread and stop doing it. Is there some other way could do it to make it easier to do, I'm all ears if you have any suggestions?

[JayJuanGee]

[edited out]

Ofocus yes there must be enough reserved fund to be able  to get a better result in terms of increasing your DCA strategy. I think what I_Anime said is true about increasing your DCA accumulation as time goes on. Sometimes issues like this need to be raised for people to get a point that DCA strategy is not just being accustomed to $10 weekly, when JJG emphasis on $10 weekly he assumes it as minimum which may as well increase in due time after people may have increased there reserved fund. If people are sticked to that minimum $10 weekly they may never yeald a good accumulation power and year ofcus btc price is increasing steadily and a time will come where the minimum DCA amount will not be even enough to buy a goods numbers of SATs considering the current or future price of Bitcoin.

Of course, in recent times, I had been emphasizing $10 per week as a kind of absolute minimum and $100 per week as a more reasonable target, yet of course, there are folks who may well not even be able to do $10 per week or even $10 per month because they have no or almost no disposable income.. So for anyone who does not have any or hardly any disposable income, it may well be quite difficult to justify investing in bitcoin or anything else.. and so they are in a position in which they have to try to figure out if they are able to and/or how to increase their disposable income, even if it is merely getting up to a point that they are able to start to set aside $10 per month or some other reasonable amount  - and to be able to set such an amount aside for 4-10 years or longer (if they are wanting to take it out of cash and put it into bitcoin), so they are not going to necessarily be disadvantaged because of their being so poor as long as once they decide to commit some quantity to bitcoin, they recognize and appreciate that they are putting that amount aside (and out of reach) for 4-10 years or longer, which likely means that they have to build their emergency fund at the same time and even get to a point that they have reserves and a float.. which largely means that they might have to struggle to figure out if and how they are able to increase their disposable income and how much they are able to put away.. and none of this is easy for anyone who is living on the edge of barely having enough of an income to cover all expenses, and if they are never able to get to a poiont that they are able to have a bit extra to put into bitcoin, then they likely will not be able to invest into bitcoin.. which disposable income happens to be a requirement for being able to invest in bitcoin. and the only other way to accomplish it, would be to receive a lump sum - such as robbing a bank (not promoting the commission of crimes) (which is also like a form of disposable income  - because it ends up being extra beyond the needs for expenses). 

So, even if I have been pushing a kind of minimum target of $10 per week and also the goals of increasing those amounts since they are not a lot, people still have to do what is within their means, to not over do it and they are still likely to be better off by investing into bitcoin rather than not, as long as they are taking from disposable income rather than income that they actually need in the coming 4-10 years or more.

so there is need to increase our accumulation process to boost our portfolio. surely overdoing it is not when you have enough to invest in bitcoin and having enough for reserved and floats without investing, overdoing is when you don have enough and you try to invest what you can't afford, or Investing agresive with all you have and may come back to sell your HODLing. So investing aggresively is good when you are capable of doing it.

All of this seems to be correct.  Each person should be trying to invest into bitcoin as aggressively as he is able to do without over doing it.., so if someone is concerned that he might be investing too aggressively, it is better that he backs off a little bit and even puts some of that money into his emergency fund, reserves and/or float rather than putting it into bitcoin, since it is not going to be any good for the bitcoin investor if he ends up having dip into his bitcoin investment at a time that is anything other than his complete own choosing.. and surely anyone in his early BTC accumulation stages might have a couple of cycles or more before he is even in a position to start to consider to change his strategy away from BTC accumulation - especially folks who have a relatively low disposable income.. and think about it, a disposable income that rises to 10% of your salary/expenses will allow you put away 100% of your annual salary/expenses in 10 years, and if anyone is investing even lower than that, then it is going to take way beyond 10 years just to get to a point of having a whole year's worth of income/expenses invested into bitcoin.  Those kinds of facts do not mean that the person should not be investing into bitcoin, but instead those kinds of facts show that it can take a whole long time to get to a point of having a decently sized investment portfolio, and even a year's worth of income/expenses is not a lot, but it is surely a lot better to have that money stacked aside than to not have it stacked aside, even if it might not seem like a lot.. sometimes the slow and ongoing process will still end up putting the really poor person in a much better place if he is able to manage it well and continue to allow the BTC portfolio to grow through the years.

Aggressive approach may sometimes bad if you don't know what you are doing but there are times that its good to execute this especially if our knowledge is enough and you have confident that there's something good will happen on your bitcoin investment in long period of time.

Like I said agresive approach is not bad expecially if you are capable of it. And there is no special skill or knowledge required what really matters is where you get you source of income from. You may not be well knowledgeable about bitcoin but provided you have a higher paying job that can be able for you to increase your investment strategy, you are good to go. 

Having good and reliable income sources does help a lot, yet we cannot presume that people have good and reliable income sources, and sometimes they have to spend a decent amount of their free time searching for back up income sources and sometimes even doing fairly bad paying work while they are trying to improve their situation, and maybe trying to improve the kinds of jobs that they are able to do when working for someone else or when establishing their own business (that sometimes will involve building your reputation and doing work that does not pay very well in order to potentially be able to get better jobs in the future).

Let me say a person who receive $1300 as a salary may be investing $50 on DCA weekly or $100 depending on his programming. He may as well increase it to $300 weekly if he has a higher paying job of $4000 so it may seam to be an aggressive investment but it's not a bad one because he is capable to invest and have enough in his discretionary or reserved and floats. When it can be addressed as a bad aggressive Investment is when he is aiming $1300 and investing $200 weekly.

Of course the income is one side of the ledger and the other side of the ledger is expenses, so sometimes, a guy is able to keep his expenses down, but sometimes he may have to incur various kinds of expenses including needs to eat decent food and to live in areas that are not too dangerous or otherwise costing him more money, there sometimes might be needs to spend more money in order to stay healthy, energetic, social and perhaps sometimes money needs to be spent to be able to get to work or a guy might have to buy a car for the kind of work that he does (and having a car might get him extra work), and sometimes, he might have to have better electronics and communication systems in order to become more employable.. so working on language skills and computer skills or whatever might be some of the kinds of work that he might be able to do might sometimes cost extra money to even take some courses to get higher skills and to be able to get higher paying work.. .and courses can cost time and money, but might end up being good investments to help increase cashflows, even though increase expenses in the short-run too.

[edited out]

Surely if you over invest in Bitcoin, the $500 available amount you will not be enough for  emergency and reserved.

Surely this part of your post is confusing, since if we are suggesting that a person has right around $500 per month in discretionary income, then he can choose to put all of that into bitcoin, and generally speaking there is no real need to use any of that money for emergency funds and/or reserves, unless the person is still building either the emergency funds and/or reserves. 

The idea of emergency funds and reserves and even float, is that they are already in place, unless they are being built and/or replenished from earlier usage... surely there might be some months in which the reserves and the floats end up being used or even depleted, but it should be pretty damned rare that any bitcoiner every needs to dip into his emergency fund, absent either some actual emergency or some kind of a mistake, and so the mistake implies that the reason that the guy ended up dipping into his emergency fund is because he had failed/refused to sufficiently/adequately manage other aspects of his cashflow, whatever investments that he was making and the various funds that he had set up.

No problem that in the earliest stages of getting into bitcoin, it might take 6-12 months or even longer to really get your emergency fund, reserves and cashfloat into a relatively healthy state so that you are able to really become more aggressive in the way that you invest into bitcoin, and surely some of the sadness in the time that it can take to get your finances in a decent order is that the BTC price might end up going up during that time in which you might have wanted to be more aggressive in terms of investing into it, but your finances were not really in a state in which you really could afford to be as aggressive as you would like to be, so there can surely be some tensions in regards to getting some of your finances in order.

Another area that people might have messed up finances is in regards to outstanding debt that they might already have at the time that they start to invest into bitcoin, so there could be some tensions in regards to either paying down some aspects of the debt or at least getting the debt into better order, and sometimes it may be o.k. to let some debt ride as long as the terms of the financing is not overly burdensome, so having a 6% annual or lower interest rate is not as burdensome as having an interest rate that might be 12% or higher, so there could be instances in which debt might need to get sorted out, including if some loans might be coming due there could be questions of paying them off or rolling them over in the event that the rolling over terms might be reasonably acceptable.

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I will say that I agree with most of what you said Sim_card (maybe even everything), but your quotes are messed up... especially the second part of your quote that you are quoting Samlucky O, but it looks like you are quoting Perfectbaby.. .. it took me a bit of time to figure it the quote source and who said what.

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The one thing that always gets me in the variance of opinion, is general the BFTD person goes back in time a picks out a historical period that suits/backsup their  assertation that BFTD is better. Then assert what they would have done to get all the different dips. But in a future price pattern is hard to guess, and really know are you getting it at the correct dip price. When we hit the ATL this cycle, I remember alot of people were waiting for <12k when we are about 15-16k mark, and probably missed the boat. The dca'r would have got some really close to it for a bit. When the market started rising I would be fairly certain the dip buyers probably got in at a higher price some where in the >20k. I think this scenario plays out quite a bit more than people are willing to admit during all cycles, and price volatility in bitcoin.

I agree with you.  There tend to be a lot of people who are busy strategizing their dips rather than consistently buying, and they likely end up doing way worse off because they are spending too much time trying to strategize, rather than just acting in a way that involves continuous and ongoing BTC buying.

It is a whole attitude thing too, and it can be quite difficult to prove and/or to show, especially in the short term, but there could end up being some guys who end up getting lucky with their wait to buy the dip who are able to buy near the bottom, but they are likely way less prevalent than they are claiming to be.. and their poo-pooing of DCA.. .. which ultimately there has been quite a bit of bitcoin history in which the somewhat aggressive, ongoing and persistent DCA buyer of BTC has likely ended up accumulating more BTC than the waiter/strategizer, even if his cost per BTC might have had ended up being higher... and even part of the deal is not even if there might be some guys who might have had done better by waiting and buying the dip, there are a enough situations in which it is way better to be buying BTC at higher prices in order to prepare for the possibility of more UP, even if that strategy practice ends up costing more per BTC.

For the experiment the future market is a complete unknown, for both the dca'r and the dip buyer. It creates a level playing field and simulates reality, I think the experiment would help show some of WCS(woulda,coulda,shoulda) side of dip buying that you dont really have privy too.

Even though I mentioned that I think that the same information can be see though backtesting (which yeah, I understand your point about the selectivity of woulda, coulda, shoulda.. so yeah I agree that those guys are a bunch of twats), yet as I already mentioned, I would rather see such an experiment over a whole cycle or longer rather than merely a year, but whatever (I know it is difficult to have that much staying power, whether it is with a thread or even keeping up the employment of an investment strategy for a whole cycle or longer).

Alternatively, you could have someone who buys and sells weekly too, and sure some traders lose their money fairly quickly, but frequently it could take a whole cycle or two to play out.

And yeah, if you are emphasizing buying strategies ONLY, then surely even the variance in buying strategies could also take more than a whole cycle to start out.

I do like the idea of $100 per week, and I like the idea of having a lump sum in the beginning, so there could be someone who starts out in bitcoin and largely knows that he has $100 per week coming in for the next year, so that would add up to $5,200, but maybe he even starts out with another lump sum amount that is $4,800 - so then the total amount over the year is $10k, he has $4,800 available right away, and he has another $100 coming in every week for the next 52 weeks, and still I have some troubles understanding what is being proven by the whole project, since we can go back and back test historical performance on DCA and many times we can see that it may well take many years before the DCA method really shows its power, perhaps a cycle and a half or more.. .yet on shorter timelines, the results may well be a bit more ambiguous, especially the first few years.

buying strategies only, no selling or trading just pure accumulation.

Fair enough.  That isolates the issue to buying and not fucking around with trading or the complications of it.. which surely in a thread like this, we are largely attempting to emphasize various buying strategies, so whether you talk about it in this thread or create another thread, focusing on various buying (accumulation) strategies surely would be a reasonably related focus that should be important to any bitcoiner in their first cycle and maybe even longer than a whole cycle.

I think the term is something could look at changing, I just put something down to start the conversation. Also the $ amount is completely arbitrary, you can slice and dice it anyway ya want. DIP buyer could load up everything into one buy right now if they truly believe the current price is the maximum dip in the next 12 months.  

I think that it is a bit unrealistic to suggest ONLY a budget from the start without having a cashflow, and the fact of the matter is that an overwhelming number of normies do not even have a lump sum from the beginning that they are able to invest into bitcoin or into anything else, which is part of the acknowledgement going on in this thread when we end up spending so much time describing DCA as amongst the best of strategies for an overwhelming number of normies because they do not tend to either have lump sums and they might not even have reasonable amounts of discretionary income that they are able to set aside and wait for the dip, even though surely I believe that this thread was inspired by the idea of allowing your cash to build up in order to buy dips and with less appreciation of DCA buying (which seems to somewhat be Wind_FURY's inclined way of thinking), yet I think that over the years, Wind_FURY has become quite a bit more receptive to the DCA strategy, even though he seems to also consider some value in holding funds and trying to buy the dip in order to attempt to get a better deal (which truly I have my doubts in that approach and his ongoing sympathy to a belief that there is more value in that approach for poorer people).

Another thing there can be various ways to deal with the initial lump sum including buying right way, add it into the DCA or set some or all of it aside for buying on dips, and even if one method performs better than another, there might not be any real way to argue that it was better merely because it performed better, since in the end, the best system is one in which the guy has comfortably tailored his ways of accumulating bitcoin, and surely some of the buys on dips may or may not end up filling. but that does not necessarily mean the guy did anything right or wrong based on performance in something like a 1 year timeline.

By the way, there have been so many forum threads in which a forum member says that he is going to buy bitcoin regularly and track his portfolio as he builds such BTC portfolio, and many of those kinds of threads don't even last half a year, even though surely they can be very popular kinds of threads, and they probably would be even better if they were pursued and followed through for something like a whole cycle or even longer.

Absolutely agree, there is so many different ways to approach your accumulation strategy. Lump sum, dip buying, dca etc they all ultimately help you get to your accumulation target. Its not so much about which one performs better, I'm just interested in a future unknown how well will dip WCS buys at.  

I doubt that you are going to resolve any issues with such a proposed thread, but I am not opposed to the idea.. especially if there were to be a kind of lump sum budget and then a monthly discretionary income and perhaps bonuses twice a year.. .. and yeah, the overall budget might add up to $12k per year or maybe even $6k per year in the various categories... and so there surely could be ways to do it to make it interesting, and I am not sure how many participants you would want to have or if you believe anyone other than yourself is going to be able to stick with it.. yet like I said I doubt that you get much of any kind of meaning out of a mere year's performance.. .. and I have given so many back tested hypotheticals in which I attempt to be fair about these matters, and it seems that the real differentiations start to appear on longer time lines, especially once we start to get past a whole cycle.. and personally, I believe that differentiation is going to continue to really show itself in 4-8 year timelines rather than even in the first 4 years.

Like i said above its too easy to go back into historical data and say oh yeah i definitely would have done that when in reality they probably didn't.

Yeah, but I have already been in those kinds of arguments many times, when guys are attempting to proclaim certain times in which they would have had bought, and even very reputable forum members will make those kinds of arguments, but when push comes to shove, they won't really commit to those kinds of arguments in terms of trying to show replicability.. so I still consider it to be a fairly fruitless endeavor, even though I don't have any objection of you attempting such a thread, given the caveats that I already outlines.. but in the end, you can do what you want in terms of setting the various parameters, including if you are going to end up wasting your time on a period of time that is less than a whole cycle.

Yeah people could back out of the thread and stop doing it. Is there some other way could do it to make it easier to do, I'm all ears if you have any suggestions?

You could suggest that you are doing a thread and that it is going to have a certain start date that is maybe 1-2 months into the future, but in the meantime, you get a few members to potentially enter into the competition, so maybe limit it to 10 members, and you might even want to get a member to help you with the creation of a comparison table...   I am not sure if a deposit, like a bet might be helpful.. Something like 0.001 BTC that would be held in escrow for the winner after a certain period of time... it could even be a self-moderated thread.. and maybe there could be some extra amount that is donated or thrown into the pot... If you design it well, then there may be some folks willing to sponsor it.. .. and if you have a sponsor or a pot like that, then maybe you would not need to receive any entrance fees from any of the members, yet a small entrance fee might not be a bad idea to help to show "seriousness". .even though my preference of something like 4 years might be a long time for something like this to run..