Buy the DIP, and HODL!

[Futurexxx]

You are right, I don't think either that any investor will be happy, allowing his funds to just go like that after his death without pass it on to his next of kin . As at this stage of your life, you are suppose to have gotten someone which you can really trust to pass your inheritance and if you don't,it means you don't trust yourself either or you are not telling yourself the truth,no matter how distance or close you can be to your family members, there most be someone which you will trust and desire to be your next of kin, if you have not gotten your own family, which I believe that even among your husband/wife and children,you still have pick someone, for me I think, it is best you chose from your family, introduce and teach the person about Bitcoin,and assist him or her to also be investing in Bitcoin, so that he will be happy and do as you wish when you need his or her help in future(mainly health related issues) or after death, there will be no problems so that your instructions on your Bitcoin investment will be carried out properly.

Although the advice you said seems quite wise for everyone, you also have to understand that not everyone can like and be comfortable with such advice because everyone also has their own thoughts and tastes in giving certain things to others including those closest to them. Actually I also like the idea you said, but I don't completely burden my closest people to invest in something they don't like, so I prefer to give some choices and comparisons when they want to invest in something so they can judge for themselves that Bitcoin is indeed much better than anything else in this world.

So never force anyone to invest in Bitcoin, you do not know whether Bitcoin will actually pump in the future, that is why when you force someone to invest in Bitcoin, and Bitcoin does not give you the return you expected after a certain period of time, then the entire blame will fall on you. You will only be limited to giving advice, never force. Let them make their own decisions by analyzing their own judgment, if they can really understand the possibilities of Bitcoin, then they will want to invest in Bitcoin on their own, otherwise you do not need to force them.

One obvious fact about this life is that it is full of uncertainty, nothing is promised, even tomorrow and our lives is not quaranteed, and on the case of Bitcoin, it is full of potential no doubt, because if you pay close attention to it's magnificent growth over the years, it shows that among all asset around the world today, Bitcoin is the best among them all right now to invest in, and it hasn't gotten to it peak price like the other, that's why we believe that it still has the capacity of going up to a million dollar or more in the future due to how it has performed in a very short while of it existence and how limited it totally supply is.
It is left for us to decide whether to enter into the moving train now that it is not too late, than to regret later in the future when it has gotten to it peak.

[Rabata]

It is left for us to decide whether to enter into the moving train now that it is not too late, than to regret later in the future when it has gotten to it peak.

If an investor starts investing in Bitcoin quickly and continues to hold it, he will have the opportunity to accumulate more Bitcoin than others. Although not everyone's financial situation is the same, those who take quick decisions will be able to make more profits. Gradually, Bitcoin is becoming more valuable from being cheap. Some may try to buy from Bitcoin from the dips, but if Bitcoin becomes more bullish, they will regret it more. If you focus on one thing by determining your goal, then it is definitely possible to get good results from it, and for this reason, if someone only holds Bitcoin according to his expectations by doing DCA, then he will definitely be able to reach his goal. Surely those who did not buy Bitcoin before are now regretting it. That is why the best decision is to start investing as much as possible without spending time  after learning about Bitcoin.

[Callido]

I open up a thread here: Something to pounder for crypto enthusiast regarding LA wildfire. Probably this could be a wake up call for the rest of us to have a good practice on how to protect our keys in case of a natural disaster like what had happened in Los Angeles.

There could be several, like having your private key stash somewhere outside your home, or maybe in safety deposit box in a bank. Because just imagine if you hide everything at your home, with your keys and your hardware devices, and the amount is more than your home itself. And then going home to see that everything is on smoke.  

And you have been buying in the dip and HODLing it for too long.

Having multiple backup options for your keys is really a good move. You never know what could happen, so spreading them out in different secure places can really give you peace of mind. You just have be  prepared for whatever life throws at us especially with how unpredictable natural disasters can be. Always make sure that you stay ahead of whatever comes.  It's all about your long-term preparation and making sure that all the effort you have put into buying the dips and HODLing pays off. If one method fails, having your keys secured in different ways gives you that hope and assurance that your hard work isn't lost. It's a smart strategy to keep your investments safe.

I don't do multiple backups with my keys, the more options you keep the easier it is for anyone to intrude once they have access to it, if you can't hide in a closed location that means by chance with multi hideouts anyone lucky one can get hold of your keys and intercept your wallet.

The first tip is storing somewhere outside the internet, not even drafts in our Gmail. I include the bank as a safe hide out, but it should worth the value accumulated inside of portfolio, with  large accumulation the bank is helpful but not a large recognizable amount then personal security is better to also enable easy access.

[ginsan]

I agree with what you said that not everyone is comfortable when they are forced and entrusted to something, we need to give them options and make a comparison of Bitcoin to other instruments, and why it is the best investment that someone can take and how it will benefit them in the future. If we are able to explain slowly about how Bitcoin is the best investment and how it has the potential to provide profit if managed wisely, I think that the person we trust will understand and comprehend that Bitcoin is the best investment that can provide profit to them - and that also enables them to manage Bitcoin better and not make rash decisions.

Now in the digital era, people will look for ways to change their lives for the better for the future. Bitcoin has grown rapidly, mass adoption, and there are already countries that have made bitcoin a legal currency such as El Salvador. So for me, people who have a higher IQ will approach bitcoin, they will learn about bitcoin and how to store it and it's all because of their curiosity about bitcoin that makes them invest in bitcoin. There is no coercion and many investors have changed their lives to be 70% better with the investments they make in bitcoin.

Therefore, I believe that new investors have found comfort in investing in bitcoin, they are no longer afraid, they already know that bitcoin is good for long-term investment. They gradually accumulate, I even know an investor on social media, he is a corn farmer, every time he harvests he always sets aside money to buy bitcoin.

I think some important points.

Bitcoin has become an investment choice for investors in this modern era.
Bitcoin has also managed to occupy the 7th position as the asset with the largest capitalization in the world.

So who is left behind with information about Bitcoin, I don't think so, unless in the area where they live there is no internet network so they are left behind with the development of Bitcoin.

[JayJuanGee]

I open up a thread here: Something to pounder for crypto enthusiast regarding LA wildfire. Probably this could be a wake up call for the rest of us to have a good practice on how to protect our keys in case of a natural disaster like what had happened in Los Angeles.

There could be several, like having your private key stash somewhere outside your home, or maybe in safety deposit box in a bank. Because just imagine if you hide everything at your home, with your keys and your hardware devices, and the amount is more than your home itself. And then going home to see that everything is on smoke.  

And you have been buying in the dip and HODLing it for too long.

Thank you for that thread. Indeed, we just have to be aware that there is no perfect way to store our crypto assets. The LA wildfire has taught us how vulnerable we can be to unexpected life happening, especially when it comes to safeguarding our Bitcoin. Come to think of it, what is the essence of buying the dip and holding it for long without proper diversification of our private keys? Apart from using hardware wallets, penning them down, and other measures if there are possible ways to store our keys, I think we should prioritize that.

In your thread, I responded to someone's comment. Here is it, though it is a good form of diversifying storage it is still flawed the better we get that into our mind.

For sure natural disaster can take various forms, and even if we took several precautions in regards to our private keys, we might have had made mistakes, so for example, maybe in the LA fire example, we had some kind of a hardware wallet, and we had back up keys in our house and then another set of back up keys in another building on the property (if we are so lucky as to have another building available to us, such as a shed or a garage), but then if our backups are on paper, then they might have all gotten damaged.. and a similar thing can happen in a hurricane or tropical storm zone in which the kind of disaster is different, and potentially leave us vulnerable if our backups are not sufficiently geographically separated. 

Some people do not even have access to any location other than their living location, which might not be a lot of places to store/hide backups, and surely the more value that we hold, the more important it becomes to spend more time and potentially money in protecting our value. 

Surely with some of the burnt homes there might have been people storing a lot, if not all of their wealth in their houses, and so then if their house burned down, they would likely needed some kind of an insurance policy, since it could be difficult to self-insure.. and if a person had residential property and also had bitcoin, then maybe they ONLY lost half if they had secured the bitcoin properly, yet surely it is difficult to presume that everyone who might have had bitcoin in the fires had secured their bitcoin sufficiently (or maybe they got lucky and their backups did not end up getting destroyed... or maybe if they had notice before they evacuated, they were able to take their backups with them?)..

Surely there can be a lot of kinds of value besides the personal residence or the bitcoin, and also some folks put a lot of time and energy into building and organizing their personal (and perhaps work?) space, and so there could be a lot of loss in regards to various organization systems that a person might have established in their personal residence.... There could have had been value in having had built neighborhood relations too.

Not only having steel plate as your back up, I would consider to have something that you can always carry whenever you go, like this bracelet. Let's say there's a wildfire happened on your house, are you gonna enter your house and find your steel plate? I'm sure the firefighter and other people will push you to go back.

But, if you wear this bracelet everyday, you don't have to worry if someday something bad happen on the place where you hide your seed phrase.

Can we all agree that there is no perfect way to save our seed phrase? Unexpected things can happen anytime and might make us unaware.

Might not be a good idea to have too many valuables on our person, and surely obscurity and perhaps convolution of the information, to the extent feasible, could be helpful if we are keeping such information on our person.

We should be praying that nothing happens for us to be caught in a situation where we can get access to our seed phrase. Every method we use in storing our seed phrase has one or more flaws. The wrist bracelet you shared is a good method. Of course, it will save you when in the situation of the LA wildfire. On the other hand, it is very risky to walk around with it everywhere, as there are those who may find out that what you are wearing is your seed phrase. They may one day forcefully want to take it or rob you of it. If that is not the case, you may take it off and keep it someplace one faithful day and forget about it. The biggest disadvantage of it is the fact that anyone who has access to it will have access to your wallet instantly.

In the end, it’s about long-term preparation and ensuring that the hard work of buying the dips and HODLing is not a waste. If one method is attacked, we will be hopeful that our keys are still safe in another way.

Yep. Nothing wrong with having various back up systems, and surely there are risks in the storing of not sufficiently convoluted information on our persons.

[edited out]

It is natural for everyone to have different preferences and tastes, and forcing someone to do something is never the right way. Especially when it comes to Bitcoin investment. Bitcoin is an investment that will never guarantee anyone a profit, Bitcoin is a long-term potential currency.

Now you have told your friend or anyone you know about Bitcoin investment, he hesitated to invest, but you convinced him to invest with a lot of assurance, and he invested as you said, now Bitcoin did not pump as you expected after a certain period of time (after 2 or 3 years), but rather it started dumping more, then he will become very scared, and he may ask you for his invested money back, and he will completely blame you for this. You may know that Bitcoin will pump after some more time, but at that time he will not believe you in any way, and will continue to be angry with you.

So never force anyone to invest in Bitcoin, you do not know whether Bitcoin will actually pump in the future, that is why when you force someone to invest in Bitcoin, and Bitcoin does not give you the return you expected after a certain period of time, then the entire blame will fall on you. You will only be limited to giving advice, never force. Let them make their own decisions by analyzing their own judgment, if they can really understand the possibilities of Bitcoin, then they will want to invest in Bitcoin on their own, otherwise you do not need to force them.

These are good points GIF-JOBS.  Each person needs to be responsible for their own choices whether to invest into bitcoin or not, and so each of us should be attempting to make that clear to anyone with whom we discuss bitcoin, and surely even when we take actions to suggest people are responsible for their own decisions, they might not sufficiently figure out the right course of action, which in many cases may well be that they should get started buying bitcoin as soon as possible... so yeah, there is ONLY so much that we can do to help people to help themselves including that many times people may have their own responsibilities to figure out bitcoin and to investigate into how to learn more about bitcoin and to get started rather than failing/refusing to take actions to either learn more about it or to actually start to buy it.

[TEBTC]

[edited out]

Snip

Snip

Snip

Snip

Snip

Snip

Snip

Snip

Sometimes, there may be some uncertainty which may result to someone loosing his/ her Bitcoin, so to avoid such uncertainty there is need to be proactive such as backing up wallet and passing instructions to heirs or next of kin to inherit the Bitcoin. However, I think one of the problem with heirs or next of kin is trust and integrity issues because if you make a wrong person your next of kin and make your password known to the person when you have a significant Bitcoin investment in place it may be dangerous because the next of kin snip

I quiet agree with you because the fact is that DCA knows kind of investment plans doesn't work for shitcoins because some of these coins the growth rate over a given period is very low so in terms of bringing back value on investment is not there so applying DCA to such investment will be wast of time

[As-Soon-As]

I open up a thread here: Something to pounder for crypto enthusiast regarding LA wildfire. Probably this could be a wake up call for the rest of us to have a good practice on how to protect our keys in case of a natural disaster like what had happened in Los Angeles.

There could be several, like having your private key stash somewhere outside your home, or maybe in safety deposit box in a bank. Because just imagine if you hide everything at your home, with your keys and your hardware devices, and the amount is more than your home itself. And then going home to see that everything is on smoke.  

And you have been buying in the dip and HODLing it for too long.

Having multiple backup options for your keys is really a good move. You never know what could happen, so spreading them out in different secure places can really give you peace of mind. You just have be  prepared for whatever life throws at us especially with how unpredictable natural disasters can be. Always make sure that you stay ahead of whatever comes.  It's all about your long-term preparation and making sure that all the effort you have put into buying the dips and HODLing pays off. If one method fails, having your keys secured in different ways gives you that hope and assurance that your hard work isn't lost. It's a smart strategy to keep your investments safe.

I don't think this is a smart strategy at all, if you spread your wallet key in different places then it will be more likely to be noticed by different people. For example, I have written my wallet key in a notebook and I keep it in a safe place as it will definitely be safe from fire, water and natural disasters.
Whenever you store your wallet key in multiple places, if one copy of it is lost immediately then your wallet can be hacked but you will not know it. So it is never a smart strategy to store your wallet key in multiple places.

[adultcrypto]

I open up a thread here: Something to pounder for crypto enthusiast regarding LA wildfire. Probably this could be a wake up call for the rest of us to have a good practice on how to protect our keys in case of a natural disaster like what had happened in Los Angeles.

There could be several, like having your private key stash somewhere outside your home, or maybe in safety deposit box in a bank. Because just imagine if you hide everything at your home, with your keys and your hardware devices, and the amount is more than your home itself. And then going home to see that everything is on smoke.  

And you have been buying in the dip and HODLing it for too long.

Having multiple backup options for your keys is really a good move. You never know what could happen, so spreading them out in different secure places can really give you peace of mind. You just have be  prepared for whatever life throws at us especially with how unpredictable natural disasters can be. Always make sure that you stay ahead of whatever comes.  It's all about your long-term preparation and making sure that all the effort you have put into buying the dips and HODLing pays off. If one method fails, having your keys secured in different ways gives you that hope and assurance that your hard work isn't lost. It's a smart strategy to keep your investments safe.

I don't do multiple backups with my keys, the more options you keep the easier it is for anyone to intrude once they have access to it, if you can't hide in a closed location that means by chance with multi hideouts anyone lucky one can get hold of your keys and intercept your wallet.

The first tip is storing somewhere outside the internet, not even drafts in our Gmail. I include the bank as a safe hide out, but it should worth the value accumulated inside of portfolio, with  large accumulation the bank is helpful but not a large recognizable amount then personal security is better to also enable easy access.

Are you suggesting saving ones secret data with the bank? I don't know how that will work or how possible that will be but I think it might require you filling some documents and indicating what you are saving and the worth for insurance purposes. In my country, if you inform the bank that you are saving the secret phrase to a bitcoin wallet and the value of the bitcoin, they might just signal the authorities who may seize your bitcoin because our government are not bitcoin friendly. So it depends on your country and the stand of the authorities on bitcoin before you go ahead disclosing such sensitive information to a third ear.

In addition, disclosing your bitcoin holding might put in you in some form of risk which can pose security threats to you. Remember we have seen increasing cases of kidnappings and ransom demanded in bitcoin. If one disclose such information, you might be exposing yourself to such security challenge. Instead of that, simply save your bitcoin yourself.

[Fuso.hp]

I open up a thread here: Something to pounder for crypto enthusiast regarding LA wildfire. Probably this could be a wake up call for the rest of us to have a good practice on how to protect our keys in case of a natural disaster like what had happened in Los Angeles.

There could be several, like having your private key stash somewhere outside your home, or maybe in safety deposit box in a bank. Because just imagine if you hide everything at your home, with your keys and your hardware devices, and the amount is more than your home itself. And then going home to see that everything is on smoke.  

And you have been buying in the dip and HODLing it for too long.

Having multiple backup options for your keys is really a good move. You never know what could happen, so spreading them out in different secure places can really give you peace of mind. You just have be  prepared for whatever life throws at us especially with how unpredictable natural disasters can be. Always make sure that you stay ahead of whatever comes.  It's all about your long-term preparation and making sure that all the effort you have put into buying the dips and HODLing pays off. If one method fails, having your keys secured in different ways gives you that hope and assurance that your hard work isn't lost. It's a smart strategy to keep your investments safe.

I don't think this is a smart strategy at all, if you spread your wallet key in different places then it will be more likely to be noticed by different people. For example, I have written my wallet key in a notebook and I keep it in a safe place as it will definitely be safe from fire, water and natural disasters.
Whenever you store your wallet key in multiple places, if one copy of it is lost immediately then your wallet can be hacked but you will not know it. So it is never a smart strategy to store your wallet key in multiple places.

Bitcoin is one of the most popular digital currency and currently the price of Bitcoin is at the highest position beyond all previous records. So if you buy Bitcoin and keep that Bitcoin in a wallet but you don't think carefully about the security of that wallet then Bitcoin can be lost from your wallet at any time.

Fraudsters are always waiting for opportunities and they are always looking for ways to cheat Bitcoin users. If for some reason your account security is weak and fraudsters get that chance, they will attack you in different ways and try to take your account access away from you. There are a few security measures you should take to keep your Bitcoins in your account. 

If you keep your Bitcoin in an exchange wallet, then first use some important words as the password of that exchange so that your password is very strong. Second, you'll enable multiple levels of verification, and you'll keep access to each verification to yourself in two ways. If you keep all of your passwords or other verification access on a single device, you'll lose access if your device is damaged or lost. So save your password or important information on another device so that if one is lost or damaged, you can access your account with another.

I open up a thread here: Something to pounder for crypto enthusiast regarding LA wildfire. Probably this could be a wake up call for the rest of us to have a good practice on how to protect our keys in case of a natural disaster like what had happened in Los Angeles.

There could be several, like having your private key stash somewhere outside your home, or maybe in safety deposit box in a bank. Because just imagine if you hide everything at your home, with your keys and your hardware devices, and the amount is more than your home itself. And then going home to see that everything is on smoke. 

And you have been buying in the dip and HODLing it for too long.

Having multiple backup options for your keys is really a good move. You never know what could happen, so spreading them out in different secure places can really give you peace of mind. You just have be  prepared for whatever life throws at us especially with how unpredictable natural disasters can be. Always make sure that you stay ahead of whatever comes.  It's all about your long-term preparation and making sure that all the effort you have put into buying the dips and HODLing pays off. If one method fails, having your keys secured in different ways gives you that hope and assurance that your hard work isn't lost. It's a smart strategy to keep your investments safe.

I don't do multiple backups with my keys, the more options you keep the easier it is for anyone to intrude once they have access to it, if you can't hide in a closed location that means by chance with multi hideouts anyone lucky one can get hold of your keys and intercept your wallet.

The first tip is storing somewhere outside the internet, not even drafts in our Gmail. I include the bank as a safe hide out, but it should worth the value accumulated inside of portfolio, with  large accumulation the bank is helpful but not a large recognizable amount then personal security is better to also enable easy access.

Are you suggesting saving ones secret data with the bank? I don't know how that will work or how possible that will be but I think it might require you filling some documents and indicating what you are saving and the worth for insurance purposes. In my country, if you inform the bank that you are saving the secret phrase to a bitcoin wallet and the value of the bitcoin, they might just signal the authorities who may seize your bitcoin because our government are not bitcoin friendly. So it depends on your country and the stand of the authorities on bitcoin before you go ahead disclosing such sensitive information to a third ear.

In addition, disclosing your bitcoin holding might put in you in some form of risk which can pose security threats to you. Remember we have seen increasing cases of kidnappings and ransom demanded in bitcoin. If one disclose such information, you might be exposing yourself to such security challenge. Instead of that, simply save your bitcoin yourself.

Still, most countries in the world do not want their people to use Bitcoin without keeping money in the bank. We see the biggest reason behind not letting people use Bitcoin is that if the people of their country invest in Bitcoin instead of keeping money in the bank, the economic condition of their country will deteriorate. But I always think it's wiser to convert your money to Bitcoin than keep it in the bank. 

I feel that when I deposit money in the bank, the bank does not give me much interest for depositing the money, but if we do the opposite, that is, when we want to borrow money from the bank, the bank demands a much higher interest rate than giving us a loan. That is, the bank will take our money and give us a loan, but they have to pay us interest, but when we keep our money in the bank, they will not pay us interest. If we invest Bitcoin without keeping money in the bank, then if the value of Bitcoin increases, it is based on our money, but we will have certain profit and as we increase the amount of our investment, the amount of profit will increase. 
So I personally think it's a good decision to invest all money in bitcoins except some money for expenses without keeping money in the bank.

[Tungbulu]

For sure natural disaster can take various forms, and even if we took several precautions in regards to our private keys, we might have had made mistakes, so for example, maybe in the LA fire example, we had some kind of a hardware wallet, and we had back up keys in our house and then another set of back up keys in another building on the property (if we are so lucky as to have another building available to us, such as a shed or a garage), but then if our backups are on paper, then they might have all gotten damaged.. and a similar thing can happen in a hurricane or tropical storm zone in which the kind of disaster is different, and potentially leave us vulnerable if our backups are not sufficiently geographically separated. 

Some people do not even have access to any location other than their living location, which might not be a lot of places to store/hide backups, and surely the more value that we hold, the more important it becomes to spend more time and potentially money in protecting our value. 

Surely with some of the burnt homes there might have been people storing a lot, if not all of their wealth in their houses, and so then if their house burned down, they would likely needed some kind of an insurance policy, since it could be difficult to self-insure.. and if a person had residential property and also had bitcoin, then maybe they ONLY lost half if they had secured the bitcoin properly, yet surely it is difficult to presume that everyone who might have had bitcoin in the fires had secured their bitcoin sufficiently (or maybe they got lucky and their backups did not end up getting destroyed... or maybe if they had notice before they evacuated, they were able to take their backups with them?)..

Surely there can be a lot of kinds of value besides the personal residence or the bitcoin, and also some folks put a lot of time and energy into building and organizing their personal (and perhaps work?) space, and so there could be a lot of loss in regards to various organization systems that a person might have established in their personal residence.... There could have had been value in having had built neighborhood relations too.

This was exactly what I was arguing or should I rather say discussing with a friend few days back, he argued that storing your seed phrase offline is the best and most secure method of seed storage, and while I agreed with him to an extent, I was still trying to remind him that offline storage is still not 100% secure as something could still go wrong and his storage option could be affected, using the LA fire outbreak as an example I was able to explain to him the dangers and limitations of offline storages too. Even when one chooses to use multiple backups, there’s still every possibility of damage or loss. For example, having backup phrases on paper and safely securing it in a place on your house may only guarantee some level of protection and safety to one’s assets as it is still very vulnerable in the face of fire, water or other natural disasters.

Indeed, geographical separation of the backup phrases may also be able to mitigate the risks totally losing everything but like we know, not everyone has access to different safe locations, which also makes it very difficult to access this alternative.

So that led us to the big question, since we can’t feel safe secure our backup phrases online due to fear of hackers and online theft, and neither can we feel completely safe securing our backup phrases offline for fear of losing them to thieves and natural disasters, where/what then is the safest place or method of storing our wallet data, where we can completely feel safe without having to worry about threats?

[Barikui1]

For sure natural disaster can take various forms, and even if we took several precautions in regards to our private keys, we might have had made mistakes, so for example, maybe in the LA fire example, we had some kind of a hardware wallet, and we had back up keys in our house and then another set of back up keys in another building on the property (if we are so lucky as to have another building available to us, such as a shed or a garage), but then if our backups are on paper, then they might have all gotten damaged.. and a similar thing can happen in a hurricane or tropical storm zone in which the kind of disaster is different, and potentially leave us vulnerable if our backups are not sufficiently geographically separated. 

Some people do not even have access to any location other than their living location, which might not be a lot of places to store/hide backups, and surely the more value that we hold, the more important it becomes to spend more time and potentially money in protecting our value. 

Surely with some of the burnt homes there might have been people storing a lot, if not all of their wealth in their houses, and so then if their house burned down, they would likely needed some kind of an insurance policy, since it could be difficult to self-insure.. and if a person had residential property and also had bitcoin, then maybe they ONLY lost half if they had secured the bitcoin properly, yet surely it is difficult to presume that everyone who might have had bitcoin in the fires had secured their bitcoin sufficiently (or maybe they got lucky and their backups did not end up getting destroyed... or maybe if they had notice before they evacuated, they were able to take their backups with them?)..

Surely there can be a lot of kinds of value besides the personal residence or the bitcoin, and also some folks put a lot of time and energy into building and organizing their personal (and perhaps work?) space, and so there could be a lot of loss in regards to various organization systems that a person might have established in their personal residence.... There could have had been value in having had built neighborhood relations too.

So that led us to the big question, since we can’t feel safe secure our backup phrases online due to fear of hackers and online theft, and neither can we feel completely safe securing our backup phrases offline for fear of losing them to thieves and natural disasters, where/what then is the safest place or method of storing our wallet data, where we can completely feel safe without having to worry about threats?

To answer your question, nothing in this world is 100% secured, anything is possible.
We live in a world full of uncertainty, no one knows what may happen in the next few days or month because nothing is promised, the best you can do is to save your secret phase offline and leave the rest for God, because to the best of my knowledge, it's only God that gives 100% security.
If banks and most of these exchange that has everything to protect themselves are being breached on several occasions,  tell me what makes you think that you are more perfect than those institution on security?

You might even decide to have several copies of your secret phase in different geopolitical area of your country just as suggested, they might be protected against natural disasters, but have you thought about it if one of it falls into wrong hands?
Any of them lost will definitely be a serious security threat to your asset, so in essence of all am trying to say is that their is no perfect security when it comes to this world that we live in, the best way to protecting your holdings right now is saving it offline on a single sheet, and leave the rest to God.

[sotelorene]

I open up a thread here: Something to pounder for crypto enthusiast regarding LA wildfire. Probably this could be a wake up call for the rest of us to have a good practice on how to protect our keys in case of a natural disaster like what had happened in Los Angeles.

There could be several, like having your private key stash somewhere outside your home, or maybe in safety deposit box in a bank. Because just imagine if you hide everything at your home, with your keys and your hardware devices, and the amount is more than your home itself. And then going home to see that everything is on smoke.  

And you have been buying in the dip and HODLing it for too long.

Having multiple backup options for your keys is really a good move. You never know what could happen, so spreading them out in different secure places can really give you peace of mind. You just have be  prepared for whatever life throws at us especially with how unpredictable natural disasters can be. Always make sure that you stay ahead of whatever comes.  It's all about your long-term preparation and making sure that all the effort you have put into buying the dips and HODLing pays off. If one method fails, having your keys secured in different ways gives you that hope and assurance that your hard work isn't lost. It's a smart strategy to keep your investments safe.

I don't think this is a smart strategy at all, if you spread your wallet key in different places then it will be more likely to be noticed by different people. For example, I have written my wallet key in a notebook and I keep it in a safe place as it will definitely be safe from fire, water and natural disasters.
Whenever you store your wallet key in multiple places, if one copy of it is lost immediately then your wallet can be hacked but you will not know it. So it is never a smart strategy to store your wallet key in multiple places.

In as much as I would want to say you are correct I will also say or inform you that whatsoever that have an advantage will definitely have a disadvantage. However, the advantage of saving your wallet key in one place that is seed phrase in your notebook is that it can not linger or it can hardly be seen by another person which is very cool but the disadvantage is that once it is been misplaced or..., you can never get it back and assuming you don't remember any of your wallet details it means you have automatically lost the wallet but if you save your seed phrase in different places even if one of it is misplaced you can still access your wallet and again it is not everyone that will see something like that and start looking on how to access it. Lastly, it is not just about writing it on the notebook, when saving your seed phrase you have or need to be very wise when doing it, I mean one shouldn't save this kind of details in such a way that it can easily be read and understood by another person.

[JayJuanGee]

[edited out]

I quiet agree with you because the fact is that DCA knows kind of investment plans doesn't work for shitcoins because some of these coins the growth rate over a given period is very low so in terms of bringing back value on investment is not there so applying DCA to such investment will be wast of time

First off.  You did not need to cite my whole post in order to make your point.

Second, it seems that DCA is best applied to projects that have long term value, such as BTC, and so it can become quite problematic when folks apply DCA to shitcoins, and so in those kinds of cases, the DCA might cause the loss of more money as compared to if they had not applied DCA to such crap.

So yeah, I think that the point is that we should be careful if we are going to apply DCA to something like a shitcoin, since surely it could take a bit of time to even reasonably that the shitcoin is even worth investing into in the first place, and so many times, with shitcoins, the presumption should be that they are not worth investing into unless you can figure out some angle to invest into them, and even if you conclude to invest into them  it may well be ONLY really justified as a trade (to get in and out) rather than trying to stay invested in them in long term ways that is way more justified for something like bitcoin... and yeah, even with bitcoin, there could be some risks, concerns or even timeline considerations that a person might have, so frequently people have to also figure out reasonable amounts that they can invest based on their own particulars, including but not limited to the levels of their discretionary income and perhaps the extent to which their cashflows might be consistent enough in order to justify a decision to invest into bitcoin for 4-10 years or longer rather than merely coming to bitcoin from a perspective that aims to trade it on a shorter than 4-year timeline.

I open up a thread here: Something to pounder for crypto enthusiast regarding LA wildfire. Probably this could be a wake up call for the rest of us to have a good practice on how to protect our keys in case of a natural disaster like what had happened in Los Angeles.

There could be several, like having your private key stash somewhere outside your home, or maybe in safety deposit box in a bank. Because just imagine if you hide everything at your home, with your keys and your hardware devices, and the amount is more than your home itself. And then going home to see that everything is on smoke.  

And you have been buying in the dip and HODLing it for too long.

Having multiple backup options for your keys is really a good move. You never know what could happen, so spreading them out in different secure places can really give you peace of mind. You just have be  prepared for whatever life throws at us especially with how unpredictable natural disasters can be. Always make sure that you stay ahead of whatever comes.  It's all about your long-term preparation and making sure that all the effort you have put into buying the dips and HODLing pays off. If one method fails, having your keys secured in different ways gives you that hope and assurance that your hard work isn't lost. It's a smart strategy to keep your investments safe.

I don't think this is a smart strategy at all, if you spread your wallet key in different places then it will be more likely to be noticed by different people. For example, I have written my wallet key in a notebook and I keep it in a safe place as it will definitely be safe from fire, water and natural disasters.
Whenever you store your wallet key in multiple places, if one copy of it is lost immediately then your wallet can be hacked but you will not know it. So it is never a smart strategy to store your wallet key in multiple places.

Of course, there are trade offs in regards to different approaches to safeguard private keys, and perhaps you have found an approach that is really good for your own particular situation, yet your approach might not necessarily be good enough for another person with different personal circumstances.  Claiming that you have a perfect system seems a bit problematic, especially when we know that there is variance in the way that guys hold their keys, and I doubt that you are the ONLY one who has the perfectly correct approach, even if it were to be true that your approach were to be perfectly correct for you and your situation.

For sure natural disaster can take various forms, and even if we took several precautions in regards to our private keys, we might have had made mistakes, so for example, maybe in the LA fire example, we had some kind of a hardware wallet, and we had back up keys in our house and then another set of back up keys in another building on the property (if we are so lucky as to have another building available to us, such as a shed or a garage), but then if our backups are on paper, then they might have all gotten damaged.. and a similar thing can happen in a hurricane or tropical storm zone in which the kind of disaster is different, and potentially leave us vulnerable if our backups are not sufficiently geographically separated. 

Some people do not even have access to any location other than their living location, which might not be a lot of places to store/hide backups, and surely the more value that we hold, the more important it becomes to spend more time and potentially money in protecting our value. 

Surely with some of the burnt homes there might have been people storing a lot, if not all of their wealth in their houses, and so then if their house burned down, they would likely needed some kind of an insurance policy, since it could be difficult to self-insure.. and if a person had residential property and also had bitcoin, then maybe they ONLY lost half if they had secured the bitcoin properly, yet surely it is difficult to presume that everyone who might have had bitcoin in the fires had secured their bitcoin sufficiently (or maybe they got lucky and their backups did not end up getting destroyed... or maybe if they had notice before they evacuated, they were able to take their backups with them?)..

Surely there can be a lot of kinds of value besides the personal residence or the bitcoin, and also some folks put a lot of time and energy into building and organizing their personal (and perhaps work?) space, and so there could be a lot of loss in regards to various organization systems that a person might have established in their personal residence.... There could have had been value in having had built neighborhood relations too.

This was exactly what I was arguing or should I rather say discussing with a friend few days back, he argued that storing your seed phrase offline is the best and most secure method of seed storage, and while I agreed with him to an extent, I was still trying to remind him that offline storage is still not 100% secure as something could still go wrong and his storage option could be affected, using the LA fire outbreak as an example I was able to explain to him the dangers and limitations of offline storages too. Even when one chooses to use multiple backups, there’s still every possibility of damage or loss. For example, having backup phrases on paper and safely securing it in a place on your house may only guarantee some level of protection and safety to one’s assets as it is still very vulnerable in the face of fire, water or other natural disasters.

Indeed, geographical separation of the backup phrases may also be able to mitigate the risks totally losing everything but like we know, not everyone has access to different safe locations, which also makes it very difficult to access this alternative.

So that led us to the big question, since we can’t feel safe secure our backup phrases online due to fear of hackers and online theft, and neither can we feel completely safe securing our backup phrases offline for fear of losing them to thieves and natural disasters, where/what then is the safest place or method of storing our wallet data, where we can completely feel safe without having to worry about threats?

I doubt that I know the answers to these questions, and surely there are some consulting services that will help people with their custody choices, and surely, the more value that we have, the more we might find it to be helpful to collaborate regarding our set up and possible alternatives and/or possible threats to our model..  and we might not even need to disclose all of the details of our set up in order to consult about our set up, yet surely sometimes we don't even want to consult with anyone, so we are left to figure out our security and hope that we have adequately covered most (if not all) scenarios that are likely to occur.

Of course, there is multi-signature too, yet I think that one of the most common reasons that people lose their coins is due to overly complicating their security set-up and then forgetting all of the steps or not properly communicating such steps prior to their death or incapacitation. 

I have discussed some aspects of my set up in the past, yet even I know some areas that my coins are vulnerable, so it is not like I necessarily want to publicly disclose every thing that I do or even to discuss some of the areas that I consider vulnerabilities.

of course, guys can have some coins in hot wallet or medium wallet or cold wallet, and so the hotter the wallet the easier they are to get to, and even the cold wallets could have time locks or even geographical separation between keys, yet there could be problems in those kinds of set ups too. 

There are some set ups that require putting the various parts together before signing is possible, which causes vulnerabilities when the parts are put together, and there are possibilities that might involve 3 out of 5 or some other quantity of signatures, but the three do not have to come together geographically, so I cannot claim to know how to employ all of these various options, especially since there are also folks coming up with new systems that might contribute to complications that may or may not be helpful for guys who might be trying to figure out more straight-forward approaches.. and maybe newbies do not need to have any of these systems in place, yet the larger the stack size, then it seems to become more important to increase security measures at least in regards to some of the stash.. but then even if some stash is a lot, and maybe it is not touched very frequently, it still might need to be tested on a regular basis, quarterly, yearly once every two years.. or something.. some of the timelocks that go 50 years into the future scare me, but it could be a variation of security that might be employed in shorter timelines, including deadman switches and various things that might not be very necessary for smaller amounts of coins.

Another thing is that if the BTC goes up a lot in a short period of time, we might not realize that our hot wallet turned into a vulnerability...

Recall thr0ugh much of 2015, BTC prices were around $250 for much of the year.  Let's say that a person was planning to buy a car with bitcoin (or maybe he sold a car for bitcoin), and so he had something like $10k on his phone, and he was thinking that he would move it to cold storage, but then he forgot about it... so $10k in 2015 might have been around 40 BTC, yet in late 2017 (just two years later), for a short period of time, the same 40 BTC were worth $800k, so surely a guy might have found himself to be very vulnerable if he had not remembered that he had that wallet with 40 BTC on his phone in 2015 that had grown from $10k to $800k and then putting himself in a position of real bad vulnerabilties if anyone had known about him having that quantity of BTC on his phone.

Many of us likely have heard about sloppy security practices, and sure maybe it is not as BIG of a deal if the value is not as much, so maybe we might even purposefully have $1k to $2k on our phone because we are specifically going to make a purchase with someone who wants to transact in bitcoin, yet sometimes we might get busy in life and not realize some ways in which we had failed to increase our security after we should have known that the value of the wallet had gone up based on recent BTC price moves.

Even between late 2022 and late 2024, there might have been guys who had not realized that coins that they had on a late 2022 wallet had gone up close to 7x at least from top to bottom.

I recall a trip that I made that lasted from mid-2020 until mid 2021, and I recall that there was one wallet that I was keeping that had gone up close to 10x (BTC prices that were around $6.5k at the beginning of the trip and we know that they had gone close to $65k in March 2021), so I had at least one wallet that had gone up 10x and it was a bit troubling to figure out how to mitigate some of the risks in that while I was in a travel status, and I was not even really thinking too much about it, until at some point I had realized that I had overlooked that particular wallet...so sometimes mistakes can happen, even if we have several good systems and practices already in place.. but we might need to make adjustments based on changes in valuations.. and maybe we don't even want to deal with it or we might not feel comfortable with trying to figure out how to deal with our situation in which one of our wallets had changed in value by so much of an amount in such a relatively short period of time.

[edited out]

To answer your question, nothing in this world is 100% secured, anything is possible.
We live in a world full of uncertainty, no one knows what may happen in the next few days or month because nothing is promised, the best you can do is to save your secret phase offline and leave the rest for God, because to the best of my knowledge, it's only God that gives 100% security.

I would be careful in terms of leaving too much to god, but maybe that's just me.

If banks and most of these exchange that has everything to protect themselves are being breached on several occasions,  tell me what makes you think that you are more perfect than those institution on security?

Surely there are trade-offs between banks and individuals...so you seem to be painting with a pretty broad brush if you think that the vulnerabilities are similar.

You might even decide to have several copies of your secret phase in different geopolitical area of your country just as suggested, they might be protected against natural disasters, but have you thought about it if one of it falls into wrong hands?

There are ways to hold portions of keys rather than the whole thing in one spot. .or to encrypt the information.. Of course, there are trade offs, even with encrypting or otherwise convoluting information.

Any of them lost will definitely be a serious security threat to your asset, so in essence of all am trying to say is that their is no perfect security when it comes to this world that we live in, the best way to protecting your holdings right now is saving it offline on a single sheet, and leave the rest to God.

I doubt that there is ONLY one best way to do things, even if you have arrived at a conclusion that you believe is best for you and your situation.

[Huliya]

I quiet agree with you because the fact is that DCA knows kind of investment plans doesn't work for shitcoins because some of these coins the growth rate over a given period is very low so in terms of bringing back value on investment is not there so applying DCA to such investment will be wast of time

The Dollar-Cost Averaging (DCA) technique is not effective for Shitcoins or low-value cryptocurrencies.    Because the long-term growth and sustainability potential of such currencies is very low. Many Shitcoins lose value over time and reach absolute zero.    As a result regular investment through DCA will never be profitable.  It's just a waste of time and money.

The dollar-cost averaging (DCA) strategy is a powerful and popular investment method. Where an asset is purchased for a fixed amount of money on a regular basis. This is especially useful in long-term projects like Bitcoin. In assets like Bitcoin, which have strong technology behind them and future prospects, DCA makes a good way to profit from market volatility. However, this strategy does not apply to all types of assets. DCA can never be considered to be applied to a volatile project like Shitcoin. Because Shitcoins never have a long term. No matter which method you invest in Shitcoin, you are bound to lose.    Shitcoins are a lot like gambling. To succeed here you have to rely mostly on luck.

Shitcoins are more likely to lose value in the long run because they lack the necessary practical basis behind them. Consequently, such investments have the potential for large losses rather than gains.    Shitcoins are generally suitable for short-term trading. On the other hand, before using DCA in a project like Bitcoin, it is important for the investor to consider his financial situation, income and long-term goals. DCA strategy is a powerful investment method with proper knowledge and caution.

[CageMabok]

I quiet agree with you because the fact is that DCA knows kind of investment plans doesn't work for shitcoins because some of these coins the growth rate over a given period is very low so in terms of bringing back value on investment is not there so applying DCA to such investment will be wast of time

Actually the DCA method is always suitable for buying any asset in terms of investment, but it will be more useful if the method is only used on assets or coins that have been proven to be good like Bitcoin so that the steps we take are really useful in the long run. Because in general the method is to buy with the ability that we have so that it is not at all burdensome for us as buyers, but if we do it on coins that are not good, of course the method is useless because we apply it to the wrong assets. So just use the method in collecting Bitcoin and consider it a smarter investment step than our own life.

[Promocodeudo]

It is natural for everyone to have different preferences and tastes, and forcing someone to do something is never the right way. Especially when it comes to Bitcoin investment. Bitcoin is an investment that will never guarantee anyone a profit, Bitcoin is a long-term potential currency.

Now you have told your friend or anyone you know about Bitcoin investment, he hesitated to invest, but you convinced him to invest with a lot of assurance, and he invested as you said, now Bitcoin did not pump as you expected after a certain period of time (after 2 or 3 years), but rather it started dumping more, then he will become very scared, and he may ask you for his invested money back, and he will completely blame you for this. You may know that Bitcoin will pump after some more time, but at that time he will not believe you in any way, and will continue to be angry with you.

So never force anyone to invest in Bitcoin, you do not know whether Bitcoin will actually pump in the future, that is why when you force someone to invest in Bitcoin, and Bitcoin does not give you the return you expected after a certain period of time, then the entire blame will fall on you. You will only be limited to giving advice, never force. Let them make their own decisions by analyzing their own judgment, if they can really understand the possibilities of Bitcoin, then they will want to invest in Bitcoin on their own, otherwise you do not need to force them.

Mate well said, in regards to any investment be it Bitcoin investment or any other investment, personal decision surpass any external advise because Bitcoin investment specifically has they way it operates so any interested investor must take responsibility of whatever decision he or she takes to avoid blame, some people enjoy blame games as if they profit they will share it with other people this is why we shouldn't decide for people or persuade them to invest in Bitcoin, some  people feel that as you invest in Bitcoin you will start profiting immediately not knowing that Bitcoin investment has a process that each investor must follow in other to scale through to the future.

Though I understand that some people are full of doubt and for me that's more reason why we shouldn't force anyone to  invest in Bitcoin in the first place, the fact is volatility favour either ways of the market at any given time but at the early stage of some investor in the investment they may not understand such fact as such it may begin to make them shiver if the price eventually drops below the amount they invested with and the may be push to start blaming you for leading them into the investment since they do not understand the concepts of Bitcoin investment, mate your conclusions are right, i think it's a right thing if we don't persuade people to invest so that we will be free from blame if anything eventually occurs.

[SuperBitMan]

I quiet agree with you because the fact is that DCA knows kind of investment plans doesn't work for shitcoins because some of these coins the growth rate over a given period is very low so in terms of bringing back value on investment is not there so applying DCA to such investment will be wast of time

The Dollar-Cost Averaging (DCA) technique is not effective for Shitcoins or low-value cryptocurrencies.    Because the long-term growth and sustainability potential of such currencies is very low. Many Shitcoins lose value over time and reach absolute zero.    As a result regular investment through DCA will never be profitable.  It's just a waste of time and money.

The dollar-cost averaging (DCA) strategy is a powerful and popular investment method. Where an asset is purchased for a fixed amount of money on a regular basis. This is especially useful in long-term projects like Bitcoin. In assets like Bitcoin, which have strong technology behind them and future prospects, DCA makes a good way to profit from market volatility. However, this strategy does not apply to all types of assets. DCA can never be considered to be applied to a volatile project like Shitcoin. Because Shitcoins never have a long term. No matter which method you invest in Shitcoin, you are bound to lose.    Shitcoins are a lot like gambling. To succeed here you have to rely mostly on luck.

Shitcoins are more likely to lose value in the long run because they lack the necessary practical basis behind them. Consequently, such investments have the potential for large losses rather than gains.    Shitcoins are generally suitable for short-term trading. On the other hand, before using DCA in a project like Bitcoin, it is important for the investor to consider his financial situation, income and long-term goals. DCA strategy is a powerful investment method with proper knowledge and caution.

Anyone who's thinking about investing in shitcoins no matter the kind of strategy he or she wants to use is in a big risk and should be ready to lose his or her money, shitcoins are never an option when it comes to investment because they have high chance of being a scam, is never something you should rely on, now DCA strategy is something one do on a weekly or monthly base and one can decide to continue doing it for some years in other to be able to accumulate enough and as such needs an investment that is reliable like Bitcoin, if you use this kind of strategy to invest in shitcoins you will likely see it losing value along the line and your money dropping which mostly cause depression and frustration in the life of some person's.
The reason why Bitcoin is always more reliable and trustworthy than shitcoins are,
1. Bitcoin has a decentralized system meaning no one can control Bitcoin it highly resistant to censorship, attacks, or manipulation by government or anyone not even the creator of Bitcoin, but shitcoins are centralized system they are always controlled, attack and manipulated by there creators and other set of people.
2. For years now almost 16 years Bitcoin has been in existence and growing stronger, valuable, Bitcoin has proven a good record over the years.
3. Bitcoin’s supply is capped at 21 million coins, ensuring scarcity and deflationary tendencies over time this alone makes Bitcoin valuable but shitcoins are not like that it can always be added by there creators making it lose value.
Shitcoins are never an option when it comes to investment it has proven that already, I know a lot of people who have lost there money in shitcoins.

[Taskford]

I quiet agree with you because the fact is that DCA knows kind of investment plans doesn't work for shitcoins because some of these coins the growth rate over a given period is very low so in terms of bringing back value on investment is not there so applying DCA to such investment will be wast of time

Actually the DCA method is always suitable for buying any asset in terms of investment, but it will be more useful if the method is only used on assets or coins that have been proven to be good like Bitcoin so that the steps we take are really useful in the long run. Because in general the method is to buy with the ability that we have so that it is not at all burdensome for us as buyers, but if we do it on coins that are not good, of course the method is useless because we apply it to the wrong assets. So just use the method in collecting Bitcoin and consider it a smarter investment step than our own life.

It maybe generally used for any suitable asset but it doesn't mean that its also good to apply on some shitcoins out there since they are just wasting their money also effort if they think about paying some attention with those scams.

If they used it for those ideal asset like Bitcoin then provably that they will never be wrong from applying that method in that coin.

This method will really be useless if those scam devs do their rug pull schemes that's why its better avoid doing shit stuff with those thing and just better focus on more realistic investment with Bitcoin.

[Futurexxx]

I quiet agree with you because the fact is that DCA knows kind of investment plans doesn't work for shitcoins because some of these coins the growth rate over a given period is very low so in terms of bringing back value on investment is not there so applying DCA to such investment will be wast of time

Actually the DCA method is always suitable for buying any asset in terms of investment, but it will be more useful if the method is only used on assets or coins that have been proven to be good like Bitcoin so that the steps we take are really useful in the long run.

This is actually crazy in my own opinion because the way Bitcoin is structured, it is more better and more beneficial to hold for a very long time unlike all this  alit and shit coin that blossom for a very short while, and crash drastically later, so utilizing the DCA accumulating strategy on alt or shit coin is really a terrible idea too me because for you to use such a accumulation method, it shows that you are going long term, and holding alt or shit coin short term is very dangerous, talkless of holding for long term, it is really a terrible thing to do as an investor.
So it is best you backtrack on such idea of yours if you care for your hard earned money.

[BitBakerr1]

I quiet agree with you because the fact is that DCA knows kind of investment plans doesn't work for shitcoins because some of these coins the growth rate over a given period is very low so in terms of bringing back value on investment is not there so applying DCA to such investment will be wast of time

Actually the DCA method is always suitable for buying any asset in terms of investment, but it will be more useful if the method is only used on assets or coins that have been proven to be good like Bitcoin so that the steps we take are really useful in the long run.

This is actually crazy in my own opinion because the way Bitcoin is structured, it is more better and more beneficial to hold for a very long time unlike all this  alit and shit coin that blossom for a very short while, and crash drastically later, so utilizing the DCA accumulating strategy on alt or shit coin is really a terrible idea too me because for you to use such a accumulation method, it shows that you are going long term, and holding alt or shit coin short term is very dangerous, talkless of holding for long term, it is really a terrible thing to do as an investor.
So it is best you backtrack on such idea of yours if you care for your hard earned money.

Shitcoins are not to be trusted, I once invested in a particular shitcoin coin and I lost my money, people who are investing on shitcoins are taking huge risk.
Bitcoin investment is the best investment and I will advise we hold for long term since it's volatile in nature, holding for long term will prevent the nagative impact of it's volatility.