Number 9! Ninth altcoin thread. Back to the moon Baby!

[adaseb]

In Canada there is an even bigger mess with Crypto taxes.

I don't know if you guys heard of QuadrigaCX, it was the largest exchange in Canada that went bankrupt at the beginning of the year. Apparently the owner sent all the customer's Bitcoins to Bitmex and Bitfinex and margin traded it all and got liquidated when BTC broke $6K last year and faked his death.

Most Canadian's used this exchange including me. I stopped using it 2 years ago due to withdraw issues was a blessing in disguise. However I think that more than 75% of all Canadian's probably used the exchange and when it went bankrupt the website went offline.

Now here is the part where it gets crazy. People couldn't login to get their trading records for taxes. And basically the CRA (IRS equilvaent) told people to "guess" how much they made and to try to guess higher rather than lower because when the website comes back online in a few years they might need to do a final adjustment.

[P00P135]

Now here is the part where it gets crazy. People couldn't login to get their trading records for taxes. And basically the CRA (IRS equilvaent) told people to "guess" how much they made and to try to guess higher rather than lower because when the website comes back online in a few years they might need to do a final adjustment.

That sounds horrible.

[philipma1957]

Now here is the part where it gets crazy. People couldn't login to get their trading records for taxes. And basically the CRA (IRS equilvaent) told people to "guess" how much they made and to try to guess higher rather than lower because when the website comes back online in a few years they might need to do a final adjustment.

That sounds horrible.

that is really fucked up.  I don't feel too bad.

I guess a lot of us are struggling on the tax level and never brought it up. I found that the IRS is looking to do a 10,000 to 20,000 letter mailing campaign . Since my last name is an A  I got letter earlier then others so if you are USA based and did a decent amount of transactions expect a letter.

I will need to alter my approach to this. 

I may simply buy and hold 1 btc and 10 ltc.

and solo mine btc with a r606
along with solo mine ltc with an apollo .

Still bullshit on the site and end all business dealings  from Nov 2019  to 2022 or until I know I figured out how to report my mess.

[badbart]

Makes me want to change my way of cashing out.  Mine to non-us exchanges without kyc access the exchanges using a vpn.  Convert everything to zec then send to a shielded address zec wallet.  Then send to coinbase in large chunks to cash out, this way its easy to report and the ass hats can't trace it backward.

I haven't done the above because i'm too lazy and report my gains anyway.  But I do not like the idea of the government being trace my crypto.

[ATCkit2]

In Canada there is an even bigger mess with Crypto taxes.

I don't know if you guys heard of QuadrigaCX, it was the largest exchange in Canada that went bankrupt at the beginning of the year. Apparently the owner sent all the customer's Bitcoins to Bitmex and Bitfinex and margin traded it all and got liquidated when BTC broke $6K last year and faked his death.

Most Canadian's used this exchange including me. I stopped using it 2 years ago due to withdraw issues was a blessing in disguise. However I think that more than 75% of all Canadian's probably used the exchange and when it went bankrupt the website went offline.

Now here is the part where it gets crazy. People couldn't login to get their trading records for taxes. And basically the CRA (IRS equilvaent) told people to "guess" how much they made and to try to guess higher rather than lower because when the website comes back online in a few years they might need to do a final adjustment.

Yes- I quit using them when it took more than two weeks to get out $$ in January 2018. A friend had even bigger amounts that took him 6 weeks to get out ...just before Quadriga went extinct 11 months later.

I haven't cashed out into CAD $ since Jan 2018. I've been holding some of my crypto in TUSD and USDC instead. Once I find a safe Cdn Exchange, then I'll cash out some.

Currently, I'm exploring:

A. Coinsquare and Coinberry. Not sure i like their fees.
or
B. I might set up a USD bank Account thru TD or RBC... and cash out in USD through Bittrex or Gemini. But that will mean other bank fees when I convert it to CAD $.

How are other Canadians on this thread doing this?

[philipma1957]

Makes me want to change my way of cashing out.  Mine to non-us exchanges without kyc access the exchanges using a vpn.  Convert everything to zec then send to a shielded address zec wallet.  Then send to coinbase in large chunks to cash out, this way its easy to report and the ass hats can't trace it backward.

I haven't done the above because i'm too lazy and report my gains anyway.  But I do not like the idea of the government being trace my crypto.

I don't mind reporting as I have not made a ton of money.

What I do mind is that it kills my business plan as a simple thing like the following example buy a 2 card rig direct from hp.com with a cc or PayPal.  pretend it was 2k

so cost of goods sold = 2k
mine for 3 months earn 500 spend 200 in power
means a gain of 300
rig was really 1700 for cost of goods.
I consistently treated the mining profit as an exotic rebate for years
why did I do this the asshole government gave no guidance for years.

now lets say I sold the rig for btc pretend it was in Jan 2018  when gear was high in price.

I got 2400 in btc.    I said cost of goods was 1700 my profit was 700.  it really was 700 profit.

that 1 deal will now need four or five pages of paperwork .

and I have yet to mention that I have the 2400 in my wallet which is technically an account.  moved it to coinbase let it sit a bit moved it to GDAX sold it moved the cash back to coinbase let it sit a bit. after all fees etc I moved 2350 cash to my bank.

so my real and true profit is only 650.  Which is what I reported.

Not going to work that way for them I will need to redo every single gear sale I did for years.last 3 years maybe 100,000 in sales of gear with a profit of 10,000 will need 3 tax returns plus next years return
so 4 returns with 100 plus pages of reporting for each one.

So this will effectively end all purchases and sales of gear with any coin for me.  And I think I need to redo

2016, 2017 ,2018 returns because they are not reported the way they want although I paid the proper taxes or very close to the proper taxes.

I will be posting here as this goes on. And may seem some gear with cash payment to people I trust down the road.  I have to see how this develops.

[badbart]

Makes me want to change my way of cashing out.  Mine to non-us exchanges without kyc access the exchanges using a vpn.  Convert everything to zec then send to a shielded address zec wallet.  Then send to coinbase in large chunks to cash out, this way its easy to report and the ass hats can't trace it backward.

I haven't done the above because i'm too lazy and report my gains anyway.  But I do not like the idea of the government being trace my crypto.

I don't mind reporting as I have not made a ton of money.

What I do mind is that it kills my business plan as a simple thing like the following example buy a 2 card rig direct from hp.com with a cc or PayPal.  pretend it was 2k

so cost of goods sold = 2k
mine for 3 months earn 500 spend 200 in power
means a gain of 300
rig was really 1700 for cost of goods.
I consistently treated the mining profit as an exotic rebate for years
why did I do this the asshole government gave no guidance for years.

now lets say I sold the rig for btc pretend it was in Jan 2018  when gear was high in price.

I got 2400 in btc.    I said cost of goods was 1700 my profit was 700.  it really was 700 profit.

that 1 deal will now need four or five pages of paperwork .

and I have yet to mention that I have the 2400 in my wallet which is technically an account.  moved it to coinbase let it sit a bit moved it to GDAX sold it moved the cash back to coinbase let it sit a bit. after all fees etc I moved 2350 cash to my bank.

so my real and true profit is only 650.  Which is what I reported.

Not going to work that way for them I will need to redo every single gear sale I did for years.last 3 years maybe 100,000 in sales of gear with a profit of 10,000 will need 3 tax returns plus next years return
so 4 returns with 100 plus pages of reporting for each one.

So this will effectively end all purchases and sales of gear with any coin for me.  And I think I need to redo

2016, 2017 ,2018 returns because they are not reported the way they want although I paid the proper taxes or very close to the proper taxes.

I will be posting here as this goes on. And may seem some gear with cash payment to people I trust down the road.  I have to see how this develops.

That's crazy I would talk to an accountant, I assume you use are a schedule C?  Really reinforces the need for for an account that is not linked to do buying and selling and only using coinbase to cash out. 

[JaredKaragen]

is anyone considering the legality of applying new rules ex-post-facto?    Ex-post-facto fights usually end up being won by the defendant, not the person forcing the ruling on pre-rule days.....

Being the initial ruling of a commodity with no specific tax requirements, I think it might be a valid thought.

[philipma1957]

is anyone considering the legality of applying new rules ex-post-facto?    Ex-post-facto fights usually end up being won by the defendant, not the person forcing the ruling on pre-rule days.....

Being the initial ruling of a commodity with no specific tax requirements, I think it might be a valid thought.

well  my method of doing the mining earnings as an  rebate reducing the cost value of a cpu card gets an accurate number.

and I had no guidance published for years.  So  they then came along with the

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/n-14-21.pdf

which I feel I followed and did not deviate from.  but when I got the pre audit letter looks to me like it will mean disclosing thousands of transaction to give them what they want.

"Q-4: What is the basis of virtual currency received as payment for goods or
services in Q&A-3?
A-4: The basis of virtual currency that a taxpayer receives as payment for goods or
services in Q&A-3 is the fair market value of the virtual currency in U.S. dollars as of the
date of receipt. See Publication 551, Basis of Assets, for more information on the
computation of basis when property is received for goods or services."

I would use the value paid ie 500 in btc for a gpu was put as 500 in gross income



link

https://www.wfmz.com/news/irs-going-after-cryptocurrency-users-with-warning-letters/1100279453

"The IRS is sending out three types of letters to taxpayers — known as Letter 6173, Letter 6174 and Letter 6174-A — depending on the severity of the issue.


I got 6174-A which is not as bad as 6173 according to this below


https://www.theblockcrypto.com/tiny/cryptocurrency-investors-start-receiving-letters-from-the-irs/


makes sense as GDAX + coinbase   or pro coinbase + coinbase   issue is what is worse its sees it.

 I think It is all I need to report on.

[JaredKaragen]

This makes me very happy that I am in the sub-10K mark and did not receive any notice of any kind;  from coinbase or the IRS....

On top of which;  My actual income last year was pretty pathetic...  near zero as I was only well enough to resume my work as a surveyor for around 2.5-3 months and got a 100% refund.

This year;  I have only made one GDAX sale of BTC, and that was right near 10K, I think I sold .005.... and put that directly into a buy order at around the 6K mark for the chance a flash-crash happens.

I have however transferred around or exactly .05 multiple times back and forth to GDAX and back to my coinbase wallet because of the market movements, sitting ready to hit the button if the market did what I thought might happen (but didn't).  I only keep at-most .5-.10 in coinbase;  even they can go insolvent and I am highly weary of that to this day.

I wonder what the difference between the records of pro and GDAX are/were;  I haven't looked into the details that separate them, but it irks me knowing I sold at most $300USD to cover rent twice;  but the reports of my wallet/total amount I had in that time was in the magnitude of multiple thousand... which just doesn't add up in my eyes (it was pro back then), and those sells/micro buys were for literal gains of maybe 10K satoshi each, or just for a selloff to be able to pay rent.... yet coinbase said I had multiple thousands in value when I personally know I had .5 in my offline personal wallet not associated with them.  I can see the old PRO buys/sells in my GDAX history as well (from pre-2017).

I was very uneasy about any exchange back then (still weary because of the MountCocks fiasco), and only sent to coinbase when I wanted to spend it; and the Tx fees were very small (very pre-2017).

So overall, this is why I am lucky I am 100% under the radar, and a lot of it was traded F2F for other assets back then so I could flip those assets and equalize my rent concerns....   Being out of work;  I had to make ends meet somehow, and with the most amount of profit on my end.

[adaseb]

In Canada there is an even bigger mess with Crypto taxes.

I don't know if you guys heard of QuadrigaCX, it was the largest exchange in Canada that went bankrupt at the beginning of the year. Apparently the owner sent all the customer's Bitcoins to Bitmex and Bitfinex and margin traded it all and got liquidated when BTC broke $6K last year and faked his death.

Most Canadian's used this exchange including me. I stopped using it 2 years ago due to withdraw issues was a blessing in disguise. However I think that more than 75% of all Canadian's probably used the exchange and when it went bankrupt the website went offline.

Now here is the part where it gets crazy. People couldn't login to get their trading records for taxes. And basically the CRA (IRS equilvaent) told people to "guess" how much they made and to try to guess higher rather than lower because when the website comes back online in a few years they might need to do a final adjustment.

Yes- I quit using them when it took more than two weeks to get out $$ in January 2018. A friend had even bigger amounts that took him 6 weeks to get out ...just before Quadriga went extinct 11 months later.

I haven't cashed out into CAD $ since Jan 2018. I've been holding some of my crypto in TUSD and USDC instead. Once I find a safe Cdn Exchange, then I'll cash out some.

Currently, I'm exploring:

A. Coinsquare and Coinberry. Not sure i like their fees.
or
B. I might set up a USD bank Account thru TD or RBC... and cash out in USD through Bittrex or Gemini. But that will mean other bank fees when I convert it to CAD $.

How are other Canadians on this thread doing this?

Yes I did that in the past, had to open up a US bank account and set it up with Gemini. It was a pain in the ass however because due to their strict KYC, you have to send them a wire first and then they send you wires out.

The issue was that my bank didn't know how to send the wire correctly, finally they decided to call the receiving bank and got the proper instructions and it went through. Almost gave up... so you might have better luck then me. If you get some lazy teller then most likely they won't send it properly.

And yes the fees are very high. Gemini upped its fee again to like 1.5% from I think 0.5% when I joined and you also get charged a 2.5% fee when you convert into CAD funds.

[KaydenC]

In Canada there is an even bigger mess with Crypto taxes.

I don't know if you guys heard of QuadrigaCX, it was the largest exchange in Canada that went bankrupt at the beginning of the year. Apparently the owner sent all the customer's Bitcoins to Bitmex and Bitfinex and margin traded it all and got liquidated when BTC broke $6K last year and faked his death.

Most Canadian's used this exchange including me. I stopped using it 2 years ago due to withdraw issues was a blessing in disguise. However I think that more than 75% of all Canadian's probably used the exchange and when it went bankrupt the website went offline.

Now here is the part where it gets crazy. People couldn't login to get their trading records for taxes. And basically the CRA (IRS equilvaent) told people to "guess" how much they made and to try to guess higher rather than lower because when the website comes back online in a few years they might need to do a final adjustment.

Yes- I quit using them when it took more than two weeks to get out $$ in January 2018. A friend had even bigger amounts that took him 6 weeks to get out ...just before Quadriga went extinct 11 months later.

I haven't cashed out into CAD $ since Jan 2018. I've been holding some of my crypto in TUSD and USDC instead. Once I find a safe Cdn Exchange, then I'll cash out some.

Currently, I'm exploring:

A. Coinsquare and Coinberry. Not sure i like their fees.
or
B. I might set up a USD bank Account thru TD or RBC... and cash out in USD through Bittrex or Gemini. But that will mean other bank fees when I convert it to CAD $.

How are other Canadians on this thread doing this?

Yes I did that in the past, had to open up a US bank account and set it up with Gemini. It was a pain in the ass however because due to their strict KYC, you have to send them a wire first and then they send you wires out.

The issue was that my bank didn't know how to send the wire correctly, finally they decided to call the receiving bank and got the proper instructions and it went through. Almost gave up... so you might have better luck then me. If you get some lazy teller then most likely they won't send it properly.

And yes the fees are very high. Gemini upped its fee again to like 1.5% from I think 0.5% when I joined and you also get charged a 2.5% fee when you convert into CAD funds.

Trade using their API. Costs 0.1% if maker trade, or 0.35% for taker.

[philipma1957]

This makes me very happy that I am in the sub-10K mark and did not receive any notice of any kind;  from coinbase or the IRS....

On top of which;  My actual income last year was pretty pathetic...  near zero as I was only well enough to resume my work as a surveyor for around 2.5-3 months and got a 100% refund.

This year;  I have only made one GDAX sale of BTC, and that was right near 10K, I think I sold .005.... and put that directly into a buy order at around the 6K mark for the chance a flash-crash happens.

I have however transferred around or exactly .05 multiple times back and forth to GDAX and back to my coinbase wallet because of the market movements, sitting ready to hit the button if the market did what I thought might happen (but didn't).  I only keep at-most .5-.10 in coinbase;  even they can go insolvent and I am highly weary of that to this day.

I wonder what the difference between the records of pro and GDAX are/were;  I haven't looked into the details that separate them, but it irks me knowing I sold at most $300USD to cover rent twice;  but the reports of my wallet/total amount I had in that time was in the magnitude of multiple thousand... which just doesn't add up in my eyes (it was pro back then), and those sells/micro buys were for literal gains of maybe 10K satoshi each, or just for a selloff to be able to pay rent.... yet coinbase said I had multiple thousands in value when I personally know I had .5 in my offline personal wallet not associated with them.  I can see the old PRO buys/sells in my GDAX history as well (from pre-2017).

I was very uneasy about any exchange back then (still weary because of the MountCocks fiasco), and only sent to coinbase when I wanted to spend it; and the Tx fees were very small (very pre-2017).

So overall, this is why I am lucky I am 100% under the radar, and a lot of it was traded F2F for other assets back then so I could flip those assets and equalize my rent concerns....   Being out of work;  I had to make ends meet somehow, and with the most amount of profit on my end.

letters just started  last week.  hopefully  you are good. In my case  the bounce back between gdax and coinbase  looks like every unit of 1 coin is 3 coins.

move 1  coin from coinbase to gdax    looks like a 1 coin deposit to gdax worth 1000
 in reality it was  moving say a 1000 dollar value coin with a cost basis of 900  which means a cap gain of 100 bucks
sell it on gdax for the 1000 is a zero cap gain
move the 1000 in cash to coinbase  looks like a 1000 dollar deposit of cash to coin base
move the 1000 in cash to bank    looks like a 1000 dollar deposit of cash to bank

so  a 100 dollar cap gain  reports as 100+1000+1000+1000 =3100  not as 100

I have at least 60 of these for 2018  they will need to be explained.


  Along with how the 1000 first got into coinbase.   mostly from gpu sales.  I did sell off 100 gpus in 2018 they will show as income.
 I will need to do a breakdown of every sale. which will really be a p.i.t.a.

This will mean me ending crypto.  I will sell the mine in clifton which will kill me to do. But I don't want involvement on a financial level in 2020.  I will still post. and run threads.

The clifton mine was what I always wanted to do  run a mine at good power rates. I am lucky in that it is working so selling my share of the gear won't be a hardship to anyone.  it is almost a petahash of sha-256 and around 11gh of l3+

It is maybe 40-50 thousand in gear I own ½ of it.
So my share would be 20-25 thousand bucks.
I will also be selling  the few rigs in the house.  pretty much sucks but I don't want to be  generating more transactions on a financial level until I get this fixed.

It is pretty sad and somewhat depressing.

On a pc build note.

 I grabbed a ryzen-9-3900x

https://www.amd.com/en/products/cpu/amd-ryzen-9-3900x

a corsair nvme.2 2 tb

https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Categories/Products/Storage/M-2-SSDs/Force-Series%E2%84%A2-Gen-4-PCIe-NVMe-M-2-SSD/p/CSSD-F2000GBMP600

an asrock x570 mobo

https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16813157887?cm_sp=SearchSuccess-_-INFOCARD-_-asrock+x570-_-13-157-887-_-1&Description=asrock+x570

2 sticks of ram

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07HSZYNN5/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?

I will be needing a case maybe this one

https://www.amazon.com/Rexgear-Micro-Cube-White-Limited/dp/B07SRWC6Q4/ref=sr_1_21?crid=L7VVP2HX4QXY&keywords=pc+case&qid=1564491771&refinements=p_n_feature_six_browse-bin%3A2057507011&rnid=2057420011&s=pc&sprefix=pc%2Celectronics%2C129&sr=1-21

[soothaa]

It is pretty sad and somewhat depressing.

This is why I rail against the government getting involved in things. They ruin everything.

[philipma1957]

It is pretty sad and somewhat depressing.

This is why I rail against the government getting involved in things. They ruin everything.

  If I was a sneaky prick  I would not have been picked up.
I am picked up because I efforted to be a compliant taxpayer.


  I have a degree in accounting  which really annoys me  as a lot of the rulings make no sense on an accounting level.
I a going to drive to the beach and have some fund walking the boardwalk with my wife when I come back I will do some more research on how to correctly comply.

Part of what is wrong  is simple transfers of coin out of coinbase.

Coinbase does not know where the coin goes so they  show it as a cap gain or cap loss.

but if you moved it to your core wallet it is nothing a wash and coinbase reported the transfer as a liquidation thus causing a cap gain or loss.

I now understand why they fought so hard to not have to do the info release to the irs.

everything I see shows me that unless you are 100% in coinbase  or 100% out of coinbase do not do crypto in the usa.

As of today the methods used by coinbase to report transfers of coin out of it to other   accounts  that you own cause a long set of reporting issues.

As someone with a background in accounting I can see why coinbase reports a cap gain or loss on all coin leaving the account. as they have

no way of knowing you sold the coin = cap gain or loss
used the coin to buy gear = cap gain or loss
 

you simply moved it to your core wallet = ? not sure what ruling is on this. Since you always were the owner of  it and kept it in btc form.


we know why we want coins in a core wallet as it is safer then having all in coinbase.

[h311m4n]

It is pretty sad and somewhat depressing.

This is why I rail against the government getting involved in things. They ruin everything.

  If I was a sneaky prick  I would not have been picked up.
I am picked up because I efforted to be a complainant taxpayer.
I have a degree in accounting  which really annoys me  as a lot of the rulings make no sense on an accounting level.
I a going to drive to the beach and have some fund walking the boardwalk with my wife when I come back I will do some more research on how to correctly comply.

I'm happy I'm not a US citizen/resident. We live in a world where the honest man is usually the one getting it up the poophole, while the rich and powerful have schemes upon schemes to hide money away and not pay taxes. There's a scandal coming up about every three months, everyone's shocked, yet nothing ever changes. The rich get richer.

I'm really looking forward to crypto taking over fiat money. It won't happen tomorrow, but it will, someday. Just like the internet has fundamentaly changed the way we interact with each other. Why do you think they pressure all the big centralized exchanges to force KYC on everyone and ban anonymity/privacy coins? Because they are scared to lose control over their own citizens. Fiat money, your bank account, your credit card, are all ties to centralized systems. Have you tried to live without a bank account? Pretty much impossible...I know in France for example, you can't withdraw more than 1500€ without having to justify why. It's your own money, but you can't do what you want with it. If you're getting a deposit of more than 1500€, the bank will call you because they blocked the deposit, requesting you justify where the funds come from. wtf seriously.

Oh well, I guess I'm becoming a paranoid hippie while I'm getting older :-p

[arielbit]

this might work  



Bob can also withdraw to any of his 2nd or 3rd bank account and deposit over the counter to his ATM account that Adam has to use in the USA

Bob can also request to increase withdrawal limit to his ATM so the 'abroad withdrawal fee' for Adam (Bob's ATM card) can be minimized over all.

some banks charge higher withdrawal fee abroad, choosing the right bank to withdraw is a must.

[h311m4n]

Those are some epic drawing skills 

[philipma1957]

this might work  



Bob can also withdraw to any of his 2nd or 3rd bank account and deposit over the counter to his ATM account that Adam has to use in the USA

Bob can also request to increase withdrawal limit to his ATM so the 'abroad withdrawal fee' for Adam (Bob's ATM card) can be minimized over all.

some banks charge higher withdrawal fee abroad, choosing the right bank to withdraw is a must.

 Not legal I don't want to run under the radar. Simply not my style.

I will knock out the paper work and shut the business down this year.

Only way to go.

[vapourminer]

I will knock out the paper work and shut the business down this year.

Only way to go.

man that sucks. looked like you had a pretty good plan figured out.

i always stayed a hobby miner, so record keeping is far simpler of course. no deductions, expenses, or inventory tracking etc. just need to keep track of the cost basis as coins come in.

even still plenty of ways to mess up the hobbyist front too.