GridSeed 5-chip USB miner voltage mod

[amix]

WRONG!
12V powers the processors and the fan is basically inconsequential where power draw goes.
5V powers USB UART, controller and all logic circuits and if you want, my 5V fan mod as well.
You cannot hash with only 12V or 5V seperately. Both voltages MUST be present in order to hash! PERIOD!
Yes you need a supplemental 5V power supply if you are going to run more than 1 seed from a standard USB port. PERIOD!
You need and can safely use 13.8VDC 'standard output voltage' from any 'good' working power supply.
If you are only mining with 1 seed, you can do so without supplemental power pretty safely I would assume. I haven't done it since I started out with 4 pods, and now have 6 modded pods running and soon will have more modded pods hashing away making me money 24/7 Cool!
Good luck!

sure check the schematic. the 12v powers the fan.   only the fan the processors arent powered by 12v the 12v is also converted to 5v and 3.3v via chip u7 which are fed to the processors via other bits and pieces.
the 5v from usb is just for that the uart com link. nothing more it doesnt draw any power from usb - unless there is the wolfy fan mod.

[Xer0]

How many HW errors...?

BTW, Did you measure the Voltage supplied to the Gridseed chips...What is it...?

EDIT ...: What about cooling...Stock or modded...I see Phobya pads...anything else...?

6 in 2h, trying 1175 MHz now

1,69V

nope, just cleaned the chips and put 1,5mm Phobya on - next time will try 1mm

[Xer0]

phobya are good readily availbale and fairly cheap. probably one of the best thermal conducivity wise. certainly what ive found anyway. Although thermal paste is even better, but more messy.

nothing beats thermal paste (>10W/mK)

but like one said here, you need to mill down a part of the heatsink, and i dont have such tools

[ZiG]

phobya are good readily availbale and fairly cheap. probably one of the best thermal conducivity wise. certainly what ive found anyway. Although thermal paste is even better, but more messy.

I don't think that we need to contradict thermal paste and thermal pads...Just opposite...

IMHO, ...BOTTOM side should be the best with thin layer of thermal paste...
         ...TOP - with   (Phobya) thermal pads...and if your mechanics are so bad...supplemented with copper shims as needed on the top of the thermal pads...

Your mileage may vary...

ZiG

[wolfey2014]

WRONG!
12V powers the processors and the fan is basically inconsequential where power draw goes.
5V powers USB UART, controller and all logic circuits and if you want, my 5V fan mod as well.
You cannot hash with only 12V or 5V seperately. Both voltages MUST be present in order to hash! PERIOD!
Yes you need a supplemental 5V power supply if you are going to run more than 1 seed from a standard USB port. PERIOD!
You need and can safely use 13.8VDC 'standard output voltage' from any 'good' working power supply.
If you are only mining with 1 seed, you can do so without supplemental power pretty safely I would assume. I haven't done it since I started out with 4 pods, and now have 6 modded pods running and soon will have more modded pods hashing away making me money 24/7 Cool!
Good luck!

sure check the schematic. the 12v powers the fan.   only the fan the processors arent powered by 12v the 12v is also converted to 5v and 3.3v via chip u7 which are fed to the processors via other bits and pieces.
the 5v from usb is just for that the uart com link. nothing more it doesnt draw any power from usb - unless there is the wolfy fan mod.

Here, let's try this.
Plug in the 5V USB power alone and see if the seed will hash and produce shares. The answer WILL be NO!
Next, try 12V power without 5V USB power. Same result. The answer WILL be NO!
Then plug in your 12V power and 5V USB power and see if they will hash now. The answer WILL be YES!
You're either mistaken or confused. The 12V is needed for processing to occur. It also powers the fan, yes but the fan can be connected to 5V USB power with very little current draw i.e. 78mA nominal.
The 5V feeds power to the logic circuits that run the chips, not the actual switching side of the chips that do the calculations etc. 12V IS what powers that!
Also, think of it this way. Why else would we need 12V 20 to 30 AMP power supplies to feed power to just the fans?
Get it?
Okay, hope this straightens things out for you!
Whew!

[amix]

phobya are good readily availbale and fairly cheap. probably one of the best thermal conducivity wise. certainly what ive found anyway. Although thermal paste is even better, but more messy.

I don't think that we need to contradict thermal paste and thermal pads...Just opposite...

IMHO, ...BOTTOM side should be the best with thin layer of thermal paste...
         ...TOP - with   (Phobya) thermal pads...and if your mechanics are so bad...supplemented with copper shims as needed on the top of the thermal pads...

Your mileage may vary...

ZiG

agreed. remeber to cover any exposed copper contacts on the underside though otherwise you risk a short! i remember the rest button having two contact on the underside and a few others.

[ZiG]

How many HW errors...?

BTW, Did you measure the Voltage supplied to the Gridseed chips...What is it...?

EDIT ...: What about cooling...Stock or modded...I see Phobya pads...anything else...?

6 in 2h, trying 1175 MHz now

1,69V

nope, just cleaned the chips and put 1,5mm Phobya on - next time will try 1mm

Thanks buddy...

What about the Bottom heatsink thermals...Did you mod the bottom...? ..or just stock pad...?

[amix]

WRONG!
12V powers the processors and the fan is basically inconsequential where power draw goes.
5V powers USB UART, controller and all logic circuits and if you want, my 5V fan mod as well.
You cannot hash with only 12V or 5V seperately. Both voltages MUST be present in order to hash! PERIOD!
Yes you need a supplemental 5V power supply if you are going to run more than 1 seed from a standard USB port. PERIOD!
You need and can safely use 13.8VDC 'standard output voltage' from any 'good' working power supply.
If you are only mining with 1 seed, you can do so without supplemental power pretty safely I would assume. I haven't done it since I started out with 4 pods, and now have 6 modded pods running and soon will have more modded pods hashing away making me money 24/7 Cool!
Good luck!

sure check the schematic. the 12v powers the fan.   only the fan the processors arent powered by 12v the 12v is also converted to 5v and 3.3v via chip u7 which are fed to the processors via other bits and pieces.
the 5v from usb is just for that the uart com link. nothing more it doesnt draw any power from usb - unless there is the wolfy fan mod.

Here, let's try this.
Plug in the 5V USB power alone and see if the seed will hash and produce shares. The answer WILL be NO!
Next, try 12V power without 5V USB power. Same result. The answer WILL be NO!
Then plug in your 12V power and 5V USB power and see if they will hash now. The answer WILL be YES!
You're either mistaken or confused. The 12V is needed for processing to occur. It also powers the fan, yes but the fan can be connected to 5V USB power with very little current draw i.e. 78mA nominal.
The 5V feeds power to the logic circuits that run the chips, not the actual switching side of the chips that do the calculations etc. 12V IS what powers that!
Also, think of it this way. Why else would we need 12V 20 to 30 AMP power supplies to feed power to just the fans?
Get it?
Okay, hope this straightens things out for you!
Whew!

No you miss understand me. im not disagreeing with the fact that both the usb and 12v need to be supplied. think there was a misunderstnading on both parts here. the 12v is needed for processoring, BUT not directly are 12v supplied to the processors. the 12v is converted to 5V. and powers everything. not 12v directly. wihtout the 12v fan they couldsve had a 5v supply - different internals- conversion of 12v to 5v increase the ampage on the line. maybe thats why they did it? i dont believe that the usb power line is used for processing power, or the logic circuits, that comes from 12v to 5v conversion.
Like i said check the schmatics. 12v is converted to 5v, feeds the fan and passes to a relay (J2) although dont see no realy on board?.
Seriously i wonder wihtout the fan, could we power it on 5V? remove the 12v 5v conversion - otherwise the 5v would be converted lower and probably wouldnt  power anything then.

[amix]

How many HW errors...?

BTW, Did you measure the Voltage supplied to the Gridseed chips...What is it...?

EDIT ...: What about cooling...Stock or modded...I see Phobya pads...anything else...?

6 in 2h, trying 1175 MHz now

1,69V

nope, just cleaned the chips and put 1,5mm Phobya on - next time will try 1mm

Thanks buddy...

What about the Bottom heatsink thermals...Did you mod the bottom...? ..or just stock pad...?

thermal paste, all that needed or thermal pad. personnaly paste it can get into the thermal via holes so improve thermal conducivity from the chip. i believe the thermal vias should be filled with solder from the smd process, but only some of them appear filled, and in some case over filled!. No need for copper shims. there is no high difference so not needed.

[geetash]

Does anybody have an example Conf for BFGminer to run in CGwatcher that shows how to setup for multiple Gridseeds using the ID of the gridseed and the frequency for it?

Thanks!

im not sure about BFGminer but here is what im using with cgminer+cgwatcher.

bat file (run.bat)

C:\path\to\cgminer.exe --scrypt --gridseed-freq 6D7B068B5650=1225,6D79209A5148=1213,6D851F985148=1200 --gridseed-options=baud=115200,freq=1175,chips=5 --hotplug 10


add pool details to the config file (pool.config)

{
"pools" : [
   {
      "url" : "stratum+tcp://www.pool1.com:3333",
      "user" : "worker.name",
      "pass" : "x"
   },
   {
      "url" : "stratum+tcp://stratum.pool2:3002",
      "user" : "worker.name",
      "pass" : "x"
   }
],

"kernel-path" : "/usr/local/bin"
}

then on CGWatcher > settings > profile > manage profile > New
select "run.bat" as miner path
and
select "pools.config" as the config file and save, that's it.

you can use reset usb/devcon.exe script and add a scheduled task on windows to run it every 60 sec so you dont have to unplug replug miners to identify them.

[wolfey2014]

WRONG!
12V powers the processors and the fan is basically inconsequential where power draw goes.
5V powers USB UART, controller and all logic circuits and if you want, my 5V fan mod as well.
You cannot hash with only 12V or 5V seperately. Both voltages MUST be present in order to hash! PERIOD!
Yes you need a supplemental 5V power supply if you are going to run more than 1 seed from a standard USB port. PERIOD!
You need and can safely use 13.8VDC 'standard output voltage' from any 'good' working power supply.
If you are only mining with 1 seed, you can do so without supplemental power pretty safely I would assume. I haven't done it since I started out with 4 pods, and now have 6 modded pods running and soon will have more modded pods hashing away making me money 24/7 Cool!
Good luck!

sure check the schematic. the 12v powers the fan.   only the fan the processors arent powered by 12v the 12v is also converted to 5v and 3.3v via chip u7 which are fed to the processors via other bits and pieces.
the 5v from usb is just for that the uart com link. nothing more it doesnt draw any power from usb - unless there is the wolfy fan mod.

Here, let's try this.
Plug in the 5V USB power alone and see if the seed will hash and produce shares. The answer WILL be NO!
Next, try 12V power without 5V USB power. Same result. The answer WILL be NO!
Then plug in your 12V power and 5V USB power and see if they will hash now. The answer WILL be YES!
You're either mistaken or confused. The 12V is needed for processing to occur. It also powers the fan, yes but the fan can be connected to 5V USB power with very little current draw i.e. 78mA nominal.
The 5V feeds power to the logic circuits that run the chips, not the actual switching side of the chips that do the calculations etc. 12V IS what powers that!
Also, think of it this way. Why else would we need 12V 20 to 30 AMP power supplies to feed power to just the fans?
Get it?
Okay, hope this straightens things out for you!
Whew!

No you miss understand me. im not disagreeing with the fact that both the usb and 12v need to be supplied. think there was a misunderstnading on both parts here. the 12v is needed for processoring, BUT not directly are 12v supplied to the processors. the 12v is converted to 5V. and powers everything. not 12v directly. wihtout the 12v fan they couldsve had a 5v supply - different internals- conversion of 12v to 5v increase the ampage on the line. maybe thats why they did it? i dont believe that the usb power line is used for processing power, or the logic circuits, that comes from 12v to 5v conversion.
Like i said check the schmatics. 12v is converted to 5v, feeds the fan and passes to a relay (J2) although dont see no realy on board?.
Seriously i wonder wihtout the fan, could we power it on 5V? remove the 12v 5v conversion - otherwise the 5v would be converted lower and probably wouldnt  power anything then.

Okay, I get you. No biggie. I haven't studied the schematics in such great detail yet. But I do know there is no relay on the card. At least not on any of mine or my customers cards.
Still, the 5V USB power alone makes what ever is driving the LED's, run. I asked GridSeed if they indicate logic drive is active, they said yes, and they told me that I was correct about my guess about what the 12V rail and 5V rails power. Like you say, maybe we're just not communicating well today I guess we're both right but saying it differently.
I don't know why they'd go to the trouble of reducing processing power to 5V, I mean that is going to pull more current and dissipate more heat hash for hash. I guess the processor chips are all 5V then. Oh well. No biggie. It's still powered by 12V
The fan just runs straight off 12V. We agree on that. But it can easily be powered by 5V as well. Much quieter and still does the job for Scrypt mining perfectly.
I'm working with someone on modding the blades now. So far a potential overclock up to 7.2MHs has been discovered but some of the driver components need to be beefed up before we can confirm stable long term operation. Pretty cool!

[amix]

Okay, I get you. No biggie. I haven't studied the schematics in such great detail yet. But I do know there is no relay on the card. At least not on any of mine or my customers cards.
Still, the 5V USB power alone makes what ever is driving the LED's, run. I asked GridSeed if they indicate logic drive is active, they said yes, and they told me that I was correct about my guess about what the 12V rail and 5V rails power. Like you say, maybe we're just not communicating well today I guess we're both right but saying it differently.
I don't know why they'd go to the trouble of reducing processing power to 5V, I mean that is going to pull more current and dissipate more heat hash for hash. I guess the processor chips are all 5V then. Oh well. No biggie. It's still powered by 12V
The fan just runs straight off 12V. We agree on that. But it can easily be powered by 5V as well. Much quieter and still does the job for Scrypt mining perfectly.
I'm working with someone on modding the blades now. So far a potential overclock up to 7.2MHs has been discovered but some of the driver components need to be beefed up before we can confirm stable long term operation. Pretty cool!

Maybe sandor111 can shed some insight. I recall the cpuminer he did for the tpLink with firmware had the ability to reset the gridseeds, but only if they was on an UNPOWERED usb port.
So maybe the 12v - 5v conversion is acting as some sort of inhouse usb power rail?

Just occurred to me.
So it must be possible to run them wihtout a powered usb port - the tplink was able to handle 20 or 30 i think, without the memory upgrade.

personnally im not into any of the blade formats , reason being a i think you can get more overclockiing inviudual chips /grids. secondly if a chip fails the chip out and down, small usb stick version are easier to replace if one goes dead. but i think there is greater potentail in the gridseeds than the usb stick format here plus its cheaper for one gridseed than 5 usb sticks. yeah i know blades would work out cheaper but right now i cant invest a grand and half for a blade. a gridseed is easier and cheaper to pick up - plus less risk through customs

[wolfey2014]

Okay, I get you. No biggie. I haven't studied the schematics in such great detail yet. But I do know there is no relay on the card. At least not on any of mine or my customers cards.
Still, the 5V USB power alone makes what ever is driving the LED's, run. I asked GridSeed if they indicate logic drive is active, they said yes, and they told me that I was correct about my guess about what the 12V rail and 5V rails power. Like you say, maybe we're just not communicating well today I guess we're both right but saying it differently.
I don't know why they'd go to the trouble of reducing processing power to 5V, I mean that is going to pull more current and dissipate more heat hash for hash. I guess the processor chips are all 5V then. Oh well. No biggie. It's still powered by 12V
The fan just runs straight off 12V. We agree on that. But it can easily be powered by 5V as well. Much quieter and still does the job for Scrypt mining perfectly.
I'm working with someone on modding the blades now. So far a potential overclock up to 7.2MHs has been discovered but some of the driver components need to be beefed up before we can confirm stable long term operation. Pretty cool!

Maybe sandor111 can shed some insight. I recall the cpuminer he did for the tpLink with firmware had the ability to reset the gridseeds, but only if they was on an UNPOWERED usb port.
So maybe the 12v - 5v conversion is acting as some sort of inhouse usb power rail?

Just occurred to me.
So it must be possible to run them wihtout a powered usb port - the tplink was able to handle 20 or 30 i think, without the memory upgrade.

personnally im not into any of the blade formats , reason being a i think you can get more overclockiing inviudual chips /grids. secondly if a chip fails the chip out and down, small usb stick version are easier to replace if one goes dead. but i think there is greater potentail in the gridseeds than the usb stick format here plus its cheaper for one gridseed than 5 usb sticks. yeah i know blades would work out cheaper but right now i cant invest a grand and half for a blade. a gridseed is easier and cheaper to pick up - plus less risk through customs

I have a pretty good feeling that the 12V rail 'analog' and the 5V rail 'digital' grounds are separated or maybe tied together via a .1 ohm or perhaps just jumped together but the reason they use separate buses is to keep the switching noise - emi of the processors as far away from the driver circuit as much as possible. Just a guess.
No biggie on the blades. To each his own....

[nst6563]

I'm running 3 gridseeds off an unpowered usb hub.  All three have the 5v usb fan mod as well.  I wouldn't run more than 3 on an unpowered hub though if they have the 5v usb fan mod.  I think 3 might be stretching it as it is...but right now i don't have access to a powered hub.

[allcoinminer]

If I buy gridseed 50 chip and add this  mod?
How much is the breakeven time

[Xer0]

47kOhm Vmod3 - wall side results

1200 Mhz # 510 kH # 22.5 W
1100 Mhz # 467 kH # 21.5 W
1000 Mhz # 425 kH # 20.3 W
950 MHz # 404 kH # 19.6 W
850 Mhz # 360 kH # 18.4 W
600 Mhz # 250 kH # 16 W
Idle # 0 kH # 12.5 W


stock:
1200 - 13
1100 - 12.5
1000 - 11.9
950 - 11.5
850 - 10.9
600 - 9.5
Idle - 7.4

so no, the high power usage stays even with low clocks

[nst6563]

Nice work Xer0.  

Looks like almost double the power consumption for only around 43% performance increase (using 360KH/s as a baseline hashrate and 510KH/s for 1200Mhz )

[poopypants]

47kOhm Vmod3 - wall side results

1200 Mhz # 510 kH # 22.5 W
1100 Mhz # 467 kH # 21.5 W
1000 Mhz # 425 kH # 20.3 W
950 MHz # 404 kH # 19.6 W
850 Mhz # 360 kH # 18.4 W
600 Mhz # 250 kH # 16 W
Idle # 0 kH # 12.5 W


stock:
1200 - 13
1100 - 12.5
1000 - 11.9
950 - 11.5
850 - 10.9
600 - 9.5
Idle - 7.4

so no, the high power usage stays even with low clocks

Do you know what the powersupply is using in those numbers?

[Xer0]

Do you know what the powersupply is using in those numbers?

it's one of those cheapcake 60W bricks
too bad i neither know its efficiency nor have something which is 12V and has a known draw

and dont have an 5A capable ammeter, too
maybe i could hook up a halogen bulb or such if that helps...

[wolfey2014]

47kOhm Vmod3 - wall side results

1200 Mhz # 510 kH # 22.5 W
1100 Mhz # 467 kH # 21.5 W
1000 Mhz # 425 kH # 20.3 W
950 MHz # 404 kH # 19.6 W
850 Mhz # 360 kH # 18.4 W
600 Mhz # 250 kH # 16 W
Idle # 0 kH # 12.5 W


stock:
1200 - 13
1100 - 12.5
1000 - 11.9
950 - 11.5
850 - 10.9
600 - 9.5
Idle - 7.4

so no, the high power usage stays even with low clocks

What are you using to calculate your Wattage? Math or a power meter between the wall plug and power supply?