Neo & Bee talk (spam free thread)

[memvola]

It's still rather peculiar.

I can understand why he didn't collect funds directly; there was too much noise about centralized exchanges being "as safe" and all that nonsense. I wonder who advised Danny to go down that road. However, if he had been transparent about the accounts and the effect of loss of funds to the BitFunder platform, those who waited for a safer way to invest wouldn't get burned. In the end, nobody won; typical outcome when you try to outsmart honesty.

Anyway, what's more interesting is, why come out with lack of liquidity this late in the game? I can come up with a lot of different scenarios where this could have been resolved if he had been transparent all the way through. What kept him back? All of this looks like steps taken carefully to create the most spectacular failure.

I don't think this is irrecoverable though. The business is worth something (actually, I think a lot) and letting it rot doesn't make much sense, so I'm hopeful that someone will step up for the position.

The business model can be changed slightly to move away from pegged accounts as much as possible, which seems to be the only problem with the enterprise.

By the way, can anyone speculate on why Danny would have been threatened?

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[NotLambchop]

...All of this looks like steps taken carefully to create the most spectacular failure...

Who woulda thunked.

[🏰 TradeFortress 🏰]

bye bye.

[okaynow]

By the way, can anyone speculate on why Danny would have been threatened?

You can take a look at the locked thread, some hints are still there, posted addresses and names.
Follow the FUD and you'll see the threats. Obviously some felt strong enough to go further over the phone.

I sure hope they move against them, cyprus has quite good technical abilities on these matters.
  

[JorgeStolfi]

you can only speculate... considering that already some companies were interested in buying the franchise rights to take it to an international level, and the level of interest generated during it's opening, I think there will be some takers. [ ... ] He will take any offer at this time so it is bound to sell to at least SOMEONE. What they will do with it thought is another matter.

Sigh, we have been through this already with MtGOX.

Anyone who buys them will have to assume their debts.  If they are insolvent -- owing more than they can expect to earn in some reasonable term -- their net value is negative.  No sane person would want to buy something that is expected to give a net loss.  Any software they may have is more easily redone than reused.

They seemed to be quite naive about banking and their prospective marketplace.  With the price swings of the last four months, a bitcoin-based bank currently sounds as sensible as liver-flavored ice-cream.

What I saw of their early marketing must have been incomprehensible to the average Cypriot; it sounded as if its primary goal was to attract investors among bitcoin believers in the English-speaking world (including using the bitcoiner slang "fiat" for "ordinary money", without explanation)

Ditto for their recent reply to the Cyprus Central Bank warnings (which were just the standard factual and sensible warnings that all central banks have been issuing about cryptocoin investment).  It insinuated that bankers were the biggest criminals in the world -- hardly the best way to convince the Central Bank to let their bank to operate...  

 

[jrlichtman]

I have a small number of Neobee shares, so only out the cost of a nice dinner. I completely accept the risk involved in trading shares of tiny startup companies on a BTC exchange. The failure rate is comparable to pink slip companies or kickstarter-based ones. I've had a couple of other investments on Havelock go under, and overall I've still made money.

Anyway, what's more interesting is, why come out with lack of liquidity this late in the game? I can come up with a lot of different scenarios where this could have been resolved if he had been transparent all the way through.

I've been the CEO of a company that went under, and I can tell you how easy it is to get caught up in fire-fighting to the point where one takes one's eyes completely off the ball. Plus the emotional toll is huge. I wound up physically ill as a result. Still, you're not wrong.

I don't think this is irrecoverable though. The business is worth something (actually, I think a lot) and letting it rot doesn't make much sense, so I'm hopeful that someone will step up for the position.

Anyone have any ideas what the residual value of the business is? Storefronts likely have a value of zero, and things like computers sell for pennies on the dollar. There's some value, maybe, in the form of goodwill. The business is only really worth anything if Danny finds a buyer who is willing to inject capital.

Also, the shares we own are profit-shares, rather than percentage ownership, right? In a bankruptcy situation we'd be absolutely last in line to receive anything.

[NotLambchop]

...
Also, the shares we own are profit-shares, rather than percentage ownership, right? In a bankruptcy situation we'd be absolutely last in line to receive anything.

Right.

[NotLambchop]

...
Anyone have any ideas what the residual value of the business is? Storefronts likely have a value of zero...

I was thinking a nice cellphone store?  The tables and chairs could be auctioned off.

[memvola]

Anyone have any ideas what the residual value of the business is? Storefronts likely have a value of zero, and things like computers sell for pennies on the dollar. There's some value, maybe, in the form of goodwill. The business is only really worth anything if Danny finds a buyer who is willing to inject capital.

If there is value, it should be in design, public perception and regulatory relations they had until now. This will all completely disappear within weeks, if not days, but I think there is still a lot of potential for this business if the right person steps in. It's a very low probability though. I think capital is the least of Neo&Bee's problems.

This is, of course, assuming what we know is the whole picture, which probably isn't nearly the case.

[GreekGeek]

A couple of days before trading stopped I requested  to move my shares from Havelock to LMB Holdings

I didn't get an answer, does anyone know if I can still do this

[🏰 TradeFortress 🏰]

A couple of days before trading stopped I requested  to move my shares from Havelock to LMB Holdings

I didn't get an answer, does anyone know if I can still do this

i would like to transfer my pirate pass through from glbse

[equipoise]

I would try to calculate some numbers here. You could help with information to make it more precise. This is just a roughly estimations and I'm not sure about the numbers listed.
Shares sold:
2338855 (lmb public ledger) + 2647870 (havelock) = 4986725 shares sold
of those 4986725:
400000 * 0.001 = 400BTC - Maybe all spent on the prospectus and initial expenses?
1000000? * 0.0025 = 2500BTC
3586725? * 0.003 = 10760BTC
Total (initial 400 excluded): 13260BTC collected from the IPVO

Expenses (min - max):
office: 1000000$-2000000$
advertisement: 500000$ - 1000000$
travel: 20000$ -50000$
payroll: 30000$ -   120000$
seminars: 3000$ - 12000$
total $ spent: 1553000$ - 3182000$

Most of the expenses should be made in January i believe with average BTC Price around 820, but I'll make calculation with 750 also:

min expences made in btc: 2071 - 1894 BTC
max expences made in btc: 4243 - 3880 BTC

BTC currently available: 9018 - 11366
+Office +1420BTC owed by Ukyo + huge international interest + a great team in Cyprus + everyone in Cyprus knows about bitcoin now.

According to Danny's last post less then 1420BTC "would have been deep enough to cover all creditors and OPEX for the foreseeable future allowing the company to achieve a positive cash flow during that period"

Based on those calculations my guess is that the company is still in a great position.

[Miki]

Some people are just delusional, ITS OVER, you've been scammed!!

[bitpop]

Danny needs to pay

[NotLambchop]

...
Based on those calculations my guess is that the company is still in a great position.

You should start buying up shares before others realize what an awesome deal this is

[equipoise]

2^Source: Today's Danny's post. Those are not the 6.17%...

[ShireSilver]

What this looks like to me is either the trolls and haters have killed it, or by their constant attacks have given Danny the cover he needs to pull off a scam. Either way, this appears to be all the fault of the trolls.

Sure, some of the blame could be placed at the feet of Ukyo, but if it weren't for the trolls it appears that it could have still managed.

And it still could survive, if Danny does actually find someone with some vision and skill to buy and grow it.

[equipoise]

With added additional expenses:
oracle 20000 - 100000$
software development:   15000 - 50000$
It would make it:
BTC currently available: 8817 - 11323BTC
+Office +1420BTC owed by Ukyo + huge international interest + a great team in Cyprus + everyone in Cyprus know about bitcoin now.

[ex-trader]

What this looks like to me is either the trolls and haters have killed it, or by their constant attacks have given Danny the cover he needs to pull off a scam. Either way, this appears to be all the fault of the trolls.

Are you mad?

The CEO has just said they have no money left. They've spent or lost all of it and owe people money. The company has no net worth or it'd be paying the bills. It's only value is the brand-name which is hard to believe is worth anything ('invest in NEO the bank you can trust, we've only gone bankrupt once this year').

The trolling was not trolling, but truth-telling, NEO was dead weeks ago, now the world is finding it out.

The only part of trolling I agree that should not have happened and was unacceptable was the multiple accounts, rudeness, threats to family etc.

[equipoise]

The CEO has just said they have no money left.

The CEO never said that.