Terms and condition a must read before signing up any online gambling site

[harizen]

so do check the KYC procedure and the reputation of the company, the worse thing that can happen to you is winning a lot of money and having a KYC issue.

If it involved a reputable gambling site, there shouldn't be a problem with KYC approvals and if a user complies with that as a requirement to claim their big winnings, then it should be processed smoothly.

Now if it involved a not popular gambling site, prior to that big winnings if ever, why did these people choose a site like that? Expect that when they won big, there are lots of requirements that those sites will be asked on those big winners.

[KTChampions]

Well said, those terms and conditions is indeed created by lawyers who mostly intend to protect their clients it's difficult for ordinary gamblers to understand what are those rules without taking longer time to read everything.

I like the idea from the post above, there are friends or relatives who much more engaged with gambling, from their experienced using certain platforms, you'll learned not by reading but from their words if the site are good and not into scamming players.

Only the reputation and reviews of people who actually used the casino or other service matter. In fact, you can write anything in ToS and then not follow your own rules, and thus a person who believes in a good ToS will be deceived. Not everyone has time to deal with courts, so it's better to save time and find out real information about the service you are going to use.

[win win win]

Gamblers should ban together and stop supporting poor gambling sites

*Easy to read terms and conditions

*KYC free

*Free withdrawals (even if it's only once a week)

Any site that is missing any of these points should be avoided

[michellee]

Casinos that have a license are usually stricter in their rules, because they don't want to violate the rules of the regulator. So make it a habit to
read the terms and conditions before deciding to join the casino, lest we regret breaking one of the rules and causing our account to be banned,
even our funds can be frozen by the casino. I've had bad experiences when accessing the casino using a VPN, no problem when registering and
making a deposit, but when going to make a withdrawal can not. This is a lesson for me, to always get used to reading the terms and conditions,
so that this incident does not happen again.

When we use VPN, the real problem will come to us when we want to withdraw the money, which is the casino will not allow us to do that thing. We can not do anything about that and that is our mistake that we do not read their terms and conditions so we got that problem. If we do not have any tension to deposit much money and only search for fun, I think we can play gambling using VPN, but it is better to contact the support system and tell them about using VPN. Maybe they can understand our situation.

I am using a VPN... only with VPN I can play some providers! I never had any problems with withdrawing, but in my case, for amounts under $2k... I saw some people talk about how problems can appear when someone wins some huge money and wants to withdraw! But until now I didn't win some crazy big amount, so I can't confirm or deny this!

This is a good sample for withdrawal cases under $2k. Maybe the casino can let you withdraw that money while you use VPN. As long you do not attract their attention to check your account, you will be safe to withdraw the money. But once you withdraw big money and use VPN or other things, they can use that as their reason to block or ban your account. Maybe those people make the alarm sound so the casino directly checks on their account.

Well this can be risky because if certain country is not allowed by them, they may allow you to deposit and play but if you win big amount they may ask for KYC. If that happens, they may not let you withdraw because you were from forbidden country and was playing via VPN.

Why take such risks when there are so many other sites with no restrictions ?

Risky or not, only they will know. Many gamblers will get a problem when they want to withdraw big money and I am curious why they like to make them wake up and investigate your account while you can withdraw with little money. That will be better for you and I think that will not be a problem for you, even if you need to pay the transaction fee many times because you still win that money.

The reason is greed. We can become greedy easily when we win for some money and do anything to get more money.

As said, most of them don't allow and for sure there are those that allow it. If a casino allows VPN then for sure they'll allow you to withdraw, there's no connection of usage of VPN and withdrawal and it is only applicable to those casinos that don't allow VPN.
So if they don't allow VPN then that's for sure that they won't allow you to withdraw if you're using VPN as you access the website.

But most casinos will not allow users to use VPN and we should search for the casino that allows us to deposit, play, and withdraw the money. As long as we can get that site, we do not have to move to the other sites because we can feel comfortable with their services and maybe we can win many times.

Therefore, it is very important that we change bad habits like that. By directly registering the gambling site without first reading the terms
and conditions. Indeed, almost all gambling sites have almost the same rules, but if we do a careful comparison, there are several different
rules between gambling sites that are currently circulating. Do not follow our emotions by rushing to play gambling on new gambling sites,
because there are attractive bonus offers. Because there is a possibility that there are gambling site rules that do not match what we want.
The easiest way is to choose a gambling site that has an ANN thread on this forum, we can read in the ANN thread about the gambling site
information, and most importantly we can get quick answers usually from the questions we want to ask. Another positive thing is that we can
know the responses of the members of this forum regarding the gambling site.

Checking and making sure will be necessary because that will relate to our money used to deposit on that site. If everything is okay and we can see that we can play gambling without any problem, we can deposit the money and play some games. Sometimes, people attract to the gambling site because of the exciting offers or welcome bonuses so they forgot to check or read the terms and conditions. They read the terms and conditions until they win for some money, and they found that some rules are break.

That is why we can search for that site from here and I am sure that will fits what we want. If the @OP can actively answer the question from the others, it could be good for us to try to play on their site because we will not have to wait for a long time to get the answer.

[Fredomago]

Well said, those terms and conditions is indeed created by lawyers who mostly intend to protect their clients it's difficult for ordinary gamblers to understand what are those rules without taking longer time to read everything.

I like the idea from the post above, there are friends or relatives who much more engaged with gambling, from their experienced using certain platforms, you'll learned not by reading but from their words if the site are good and not into scamming players.

Only the reputation and reviews of people who actually used the casino or other service matter. In fact, you can write anything in ToS and then not follow your own rules, and thus a person who believes in a good ToS will be deceived. Not everyone has time to deal with courts, so it's better to save time and find out real information about the service you are going to use.

That's the point gambers mostly don't have that luxury of time in terms of contesting the claimed, better to use what you already knows best or someone already been there to enjoy the services,

Than to explore and be trapped with terms and conditions that mostly not being attended by gamblers who are playing inside the house.

once you already choose the right place for you to enjoy and entertained, fit yourself and work along side with the site, perks will slowly coming from time to time for being a loyal player.

[l3pox]

you are right @AmoreJaz
a peson wouldn't be able to complain if they violate the ToS
but ToS makers usually dont help either by making it short and direct to the point, have you checked how long does it take to read, let's say, Facebook ToS?
its really long, like hours.

not sure about the casino ones

This is not the case (at least in my country and I know that approximately the same norms work in most countries). The company can write anything to the ToS and the user can even agree with this, but this does not change the priority of the current legislation, so that the user can at any time sue the company and challenge any provision of the ToS, regardless of whether he previously agreed with them or not. The final decision is always up to the court.

I can’t imagine how much time and money you’ll spend on suing a company because of their terms and conditions than to read it for just like a 1 to 2hrs, anyway if its a millions of money then I think it’s worth it.

I don’t know why people are too lazy to read those important details that can save them from trouble, btw that’s the risk they are taking and if something bad happen because of their own mistakes, no one to blame for but yourself.

the thing is many of the ToS of websites is much more than 1 or 2 hours to read, I remember seeing an article once that compared reading time for famous websites tos like facebook, youtube and twitter and it was absurd like 10h+

didn't find the article but found this other one that illustrates the situation well
You're not alone, no one reads terms of service agreements
saying that less than 9% of consumers DO read the ToS



Every site should have a Simplified version of the full contract, imo

[magneto]

Gamblers should ban together and stop supporting poor gambling sites

*Easy to read terms and conditions

*KYC free

*Free withdrawals (even if it's only once a week)

Any site that is missing any of these points should be avoided

Yes. But you shouldn't take it as the only determinant of whether or not you want to play on a site.

A site with a very convoluted and draconian T&C may not enforce it in practice, and it may be okay that you play on their site. Meanwhile, another site with a very simple T&C may actually be a landmine waiting to be stepped on, and actually enforce KYC on all of its customer accounts.

This is very reputation is probably a bit more important than the T&Cs alone, imo. Anyone can cherrypick conditions when it comes to it, but reputation usually indicates whether or not they actually do that in the first place.

[Betwrong]

~ Were there instances when customers violated ToS and still won the case?

A million such cases have been and will be because many (if not most) companies enter requirements into the ToS that contradict the laws and therefore have no force, and then consumers in court easily win cases in controversial cases.
You can find it easy to find such a case on Google especially often it is associated with intellectual property rights.

Sony now has to reactivate the banned PS5 from Weslley Matheus, but this was not the first defeat that the company suffered in the Brazilian courts in this matter: in March 2021, the São Paulo State Court of Justice (TJ-SP) ruled that Sony could not permanently block the PlayStation 5 if the user broke its rules. The decision, published on the 2nd of that month and signed by Judge Anderson Antonucci, considered the action abusive.

Before that, on December 28, 2020, a judge from the same TJ ordered Sony to suspend punishment for a PlayStation 5 banned from the network. In the lawsuit, the owner of the console claimed that the ban on the console constituted “abuse of rights” by Sony, “because it is an impossible legal punishment for a good, for violating the right to the adversary and the broad defense of the author, for violating the right to the author to review the decision authorized under the LGPD [General Data Protection Law] and because it constitutes an excess of punishment incompatible with the Brazilian legal system ”.

https://olhardigital.com.br/en/2021/05/17/games-e-consoles/sony-ps5-banido-restauracao/

one more example:

French high court rules that Steam can’t ban users from reselling digital games

https://www.vg247.com/2019/09/20/steam-users-right-to-sell-games-french-court-valve-ruling/

and so on.

Interesting articles. Thanks for the links!

I wouldn't say there are "million such cases", though. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad there are such cases, and I hope there will be more cases like those in the future, but we both know that in the vast majority of cases if you break the rules(ToS/T&C) you won't win in court. So, even though those companies are not omnipotent(and that's good, of course) it's better for us to read ToS, at least briefly, at least "diagonally", but to not ignore it completely.

[KTChampions]

Interesting articles. Thanks for the links!

I wouldn't say there are "million such cases", though. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad there are such cases, and I hope there will be more cases like those in the future, but we both know that in the vast majority of cases if you break the rules(ToS/T&C) you won't win in court. So, even though those companies are not omnipotent(and that's good, of course) it's better for us to read ToS, at least briefly, at least "diagonally", but to not ignore it completely.

The only reason people don't win millions of such cases in courts is their unwillingness to go there. Few people want to waste time for the sake of their adherence to principles and punish a corporation for the loss of a virtual character or access to a virtual service. This is especially not relevant given the fact that there are many other services/games. But still, we must not forget about our fundamental rights and regard corporations as gods. It will be useful for them and for us, we will know about our rights, and they will be less impudent.

[l3pox]

Interesting articles. Thanks for the links!

I wouldn't say there are "million such cases", though. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad there are such cases, and I hope there will be more cases like those in the future, but we both know that in the vast majority of cases if you break the rules(ToS/T&C) you won't win in court. So, even though those companies are not omnipotent(and that's good, of course) it's better for us to read ToS, at least briefly, at least "diagonally", but to not ignore it completely.

The only reason people don't win millions of such cases in courts is their unwillingness to go there. Few people want to waste time for the sake of their adherence to principles and punish a corporation for the loss of a virtual character or access to a virtual service. This is especially not relevant given the fact that there are many other services/games. But still, we must not forget about our fundamental rights and regard corporations as gods. It will be useful for them and for us, we will know about our rights, and they will be less impudent.

well, there is cost of opportunity, but yes, probably more people could win and don't because they end up not going
not all have the patience to do the paper work, lawyers, etc...

[batako]

It's the way to go because many of the times these gambling sites protect themselves with terms and conditions, while the players themselves just hate to read them and only act surprised when these terms are quoted to us and try to play victim when some rules are broken.

Is it correct and proof to say our reading culture is getting worse by the day?

I tend to skip general terms and conditions part since I am sure that it has to be the identical thing from site to site. But if we deal with bonuses,like welcome bonus, it may differ from one to another therefore we have to read it carefully and ask the thing that we dont understand/have doubts to the support staff. Failed to understand its terms and conditions could lead us to the big regret at the end.

[Dread Pirate Roberts]

*KYC free

I totally agree with this, but there are some casinos that are legally established in their country but maybe their country's regulations require customer data for their casino service users. I think this is still okay as long as it is not made difficult and takes a long time. So far, casinos that require KYC are very simple and fast. like just a formality.

[ShowOff]

We all have reason why the terms and conditions of a gambling site should be read before registering or starting to play there. In addition to reason to avoid mistakes in using the site, we will also get an idea of ​​whether the site is one of the site that meet the criteria we want. Some users are not suitable for KYC, usually in the terms and conditions we will get that information and we also avoid the site because of that.

So far, casinos that require KYC are very simple and fast. like just a formality.

Quick and easy doesn't seem like a formality. Site that have KYC rule must be able to store user data securely so it doesn't look bad. If KYC is considered a formality, then the security of user document cant be guaranteed.

[l3pox]

We all have reason why the terms and conditions of a gambling site should be read before registering or starting to play there. In addition to reason to avoid mistakes in using the site, we will also get an idea of ​​whether the site is one of the site that meet the criteria we want. Some users are not suitable for KYC, usually in the terms and conditions we will get that information and we also avoid the site because of that.

So far, casinos that require KYC are very simple and fast. like just a formality.

Quick and easy doesn't seem like a formality. Site that have KYC rule must be able to store user data securely so it doesn't look bad. If KYC is considered a formality, then the security of user document cant be guaranteed.

there are good topics here on the forum that shows that KYC is not only useless but also dangerous
people with bad intentions (or not) will find ways to bypass it, fake documents or pay someone else to do it for them

if anyone wants to read more on that here's a full topic
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5221497.new#new

[Bitinity]

Gamblers should ban together and stop supporting poor gambling sites

*Easy to read terms and conditions

*KYC free

*Free withdrawals (even if it's only once a week)

Any site that is missing any of these points should be avoided

I agree with the first 2 but not for the 3rd one. Having free withdrawal is absolutely a benefit for us as players but casinos that charging fee for withdrawal does not mean that they are poor gambling sites that should be avoided. As long as the withdrawal fee is reasonable and they process withdrawal instantly then I'm fine with the fee.

[hahay]

*KYC free

I totally agree with this, but there are some casinos that are legally established in their country but maybe their country's regulations require customer data for their casino service users. I think this is still okay as long as it is not made difficult and takes a long time. So far, casinos that require KYC are very simple and fast. like just a formality.

Yes, and as far as I know the KYC process is fast depending on the good or bad quality of the images we send. But yes, this is gambling related although I also realize it involves money and I think, there is nothing wrong if they implement KYC but for me it would be better to avoid it if it has to involve KYC in gambling. But yes, it all depends on the comfort of each individual, but for me because there are still many other trusted gambling sites that do not implement KYC, I prefer to use their services for gambling.

[Kelvinid]

It's the way to go because many of the times these gambling sites protect themselves with terms and conditions, while the players themselves just hate to read them and only act surprised when these terms are quoted to us and try to play victim when some rules are broken.

Is it correct and proof to say our reading culture is getting worse by the day?

I tend to skip general terms and conditions part since I am sure that it has to be the identical thing from site to site. But if we deal with bonuses,like welcome bonus, it may differ from one to another therefore we have to read it carefully and ask the thing that we dont understand/have doubts to the support staff. Failed to understand its terms and conditions could lead us to the big regret at the end.

We firstly not to consider this as very important for we think that was the same with others site and that is why we have no right to claim if we got the problem especially when we violated their rules because we are not able to read them at first.

If we are skeptical before and just ignore this, it was time for us to do this in order to not reach the point that we blame each other. It is our wrong doing and that is we need to change it, otherwise, the same issues and complaints will raise again and again.

[bittraffic]

We all have reason why the terms and conditions of a gambling site should be read before registering or starting to play there. In addition to reason to avoid mistakes in using the site, we will also get an idea of ​​whether the site is one of the site that meet the criteria we want. Some users are not suitable for KYC, usually in the terms and conditions we will get that information and we also avoid the site because of that.

So far, casinos that require KYC are very simple and fast. like just a formality.

Quick and easy doesn't seem like a formality. Site that have KYC rule must be able to store user data securely so it doesn't look bad. If KYC is considered a formality, then the security of user document cant be guaranteed.

there are good topics here on the forum that shows that KYC is not only useless but also dangerous
people with bad intentions (or not) will find ways to bypass it, fake documents or pay someone else to do it for them

if anyone wants to read more on that here's a full topic
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5221497.new#new

Everyone hates KYC and most casinos already knew that. Even the big popular crypto casino is not asking for it but the fiat base are. But I'm still not buying that gamblers are actually reading TOS before playing. If they have been in crypto for years, most of the time, they just register, deposit, and play.

Some may read TOS but probably are looking for loopholes. Sometimes the time, when they read, is already the time where their account is already frozen for suspicious activity.

[l3pox]

Gamblers should ban together and stop supporting poor gambling sites

*Easy to read terms and conditions

*KYC free

*Free withdrawals (even if it's only once a week)

Any site that is missing any of these points should be avoided

I agree with the first 2 but not for the 3rd one. Having free withdrawal is absolutely a benefit for us as players but casinos that charging fee for withdrawal does not mean that they are poor gambling sites that should be avoided. As long as the withdrawal fee is reasonable and they process withdrawal instantly then I'm fine with the fee.

yes @Bitinity
free withdrawals are not a must for deciding on using a website
but its an interesting thing to look at, sometimes you can even assess an exchange risk by that, if they charge really high fees and have huge processing times its a red flag.

[jostorres]

*Easy to read terms and conditions

Almost all the casinos have terms and conditions in basic English which are easy to understand but too long to read.

*KYC free

With the crypto gambling being more and more licensed, I don't think many casinos exist now that don't ask KYC under some situation.

*Free withdrawals (even if it's only once a week)

Sportsbet.io does it but I don't think every casino can do that because the transaction fees is not something casinos are charging, it's the cost of making that transaction and cannot expect the casinos to pay it.