incessant blabbering
Aren't you the smartest person who ever did live. With superior communications skills, too.
I claim that I don't really know very much about technical matters; however, over my nearly 9 years in bitcoin, I have done bitcoin transactions in a variety of ways - including some services that were like exchanges, and other variations of wallets, and sometimes interacting between these - if there is some desire to interact with someone or some service or even claiming forked coins in 2017 (which was a challenge for me to learn some things/angles about derivation paths).
The longer that we are in bitcoin, hopefully we learn things, yet in my above comment I was also trying to suggest both that things change and that there may well be quite a bit of geographical variation or even variation in terms of whether people who want to transact in bitcoin might know people in the real world who would like to transact directly with them - and maybe not even using any third party services, beyond wallet to wallet (and wallets might differ, but if they are transacting directly they can frequently negotiate terms and/or fees in respect to any transaction that they might decide to do).
The more options that anyone has would likely increase their abilities to negotiate terms or even refuse to transact if they believe the financial or even the safety circumstances are not good for them. Or maybe some people might get worried about accounting, so they might not want to engage in some transactions because they might believe it creates too much accounting work for them. So for example, let's say that someone wants to buy $300 in bitcoin from me, and if the BTC price had moved dropped a lot, I might feel that I would ONLY want to do such transaction if the fee is high because I feel that the BTC price might not drop anymore in order that I would be able to rebalance my books at a lower price (which might have been my attempted practice of sell and replace by rebuying at a lower price, if possible).
If someone has BTC, then probably they have more options to set the terms of a negotiation if someone else does not have any BTC, they want BTC, but they cannot find any other way to get BTC that they feel comfortable with... so in that sense if I am amongst one of their ONLY options for getting BTC (and I know it), then I could be more strict in my negotiations.. maybe? Personalities can come into play too because some people are more ruthless in their negotiations than other people, and there are likely circumstances in which people like to "build good will," and other people want to be perceived as a "ruthless bargainer."
Indirectly your experience has reached a perfect stage, where you say almost 9 years of conducting transactions in various ways, both exchanges and wallets that have ever existed.
I did start out with just a couple of exchanges and one wallet - and then continued to expand in various kinds of ways, but I feel far from capable of understanding quite a few aspects of various kinds of wallets - frequently, I don't even understand how to perform various functions that might be available through a wallet - or to realize the significance of various kinds of changes that come about from time to time.
Sometimes I will say some of the exchanges that I use, but other times I won't because there can be security implications, and the same is true for some of the wallets that I use or that I have tried.
I have said that I have tried the Ledger and the Trezor, and I have said that I had frequently gotten confused by the Ledger, and then there is one wallet that I had been using since several years ago, and then over time, they added several functions including but not limited to:
1) the ability to see (and therefore to be able to send/receive) BTC forked coins (such as BCH and BGold),
2) differentiation between segwit and legacy addresses,
3) the ability to add a passphrase,
4) the ability to do multi-device signatures and
5) then recently when I was signing in, I went into the menu to create a new wallet, and then I saw that they have 4 different wallet types to choose from which includes:
a) Legacy: BIP44, P2PKH, Base 58
b) Legacy SegWit: BIP49, P2SH-P2WPKH, Base 58
c) Taproot: BIP86, P2TR, Bech 32m
d) SegWit: BIP84, P2WPKH, Bech 32
My point is that I don't necessarily know the various trade-offs that might exist with the various kinds of wallet (account) types, and if you recall there had been a pretty BIG campaign by some anti-segwit people to suggest that the whole segwit was going to crash, and so there was a need NOT to move to segwit - and some of those folks are in the anti-lightning groups. Sometimes I will try to follow some of those conversations, including starting in late 2015, when there were already folks starting to talk about the need for block sizes to increase, and I am saying that sometimes I don't really feel that I know what the fuck they were talking about, but somewhere along the line, I realize that so many folks were framing supposed "technical" reasons when they were really engaging in politics in which they were merely just trying to make it easier to change bitcoin... so sometimes, any of us might not understand all of the arguments, but after the passage of time, I became way less receptive to hearing those arguments - and even arguing that there was no real basis to their technical arguments - even though I don't know much about technical matters.
I didn't really find anyone like you, neither on forums nor outside, I mean you have a pretty broad insight into bitcoin knowledge, at least this gives me an idea, after seeing some of the replies you have on the forums.
It seems that each of us try to share our perspective and experiences, and I put my foot in my mouth on a fairly regular basis. Sometimes members "call me out" publicly, and other times they do it by PM. Surely there is discretion regarding when to back down, and sometimes members will really get into public battles too (and I have as well), and sometimes one of the members will end up having a public melt down of sorts.. and sometimes other members will purposefully come at you because it seems that they might be trying to trap you or to get you to devolve into some kind of a public meltdown... so it can become difficult to battle in regards to some of the topics, and surely other members will sometimes know way more about a topic from a certain angle - so it is not always clear when to give up, or whether the back and forth is even useful.. and like in this thread.. whether we are on topic..
Pretty soon fillippone may lose his tolerance for our going off topic.. and maybe regret that he did not create this as a self-moderated thread... so in that regard, even though lightning network has been live for nearly 6 years, and sometimes I have been following some aspects of the lightning network threads, I am ONLY recently actually using some lightning network wallets (so far mostly BlueWallet.. and then knowing that cash app can be used for sending lightning but not receiving), so maybe there can be feelings about "being behind," but if we look at normies in the real world.. they sometimes don't even know superficially how lighting network relates to bitcoin.. well normies have a lot of misconceptions about a lot of things related to bitcoin, but if we are trying to get them to start to store some value in bitcoin and then also to maybe transact in bitcoin, we might want them to have some ideas about both bitcoin and lighting network, even if they are likely to tend towards custody solutions in the beginning of their exposure to bitcoin.. unless they happen to be in El Salvador or they happen to be a bit on the geeky side.
We will get experience according to what we learn, I believe it takes direct involvement in bitcoin investment, so that we know more basic and deeper technical things, rather than listening to advice and input from experienced people.
That's why bitcoin never limits people to discuss, investment choices and how people take part in it, this uniqueness we will only find, after we are really in the system, the rest of the technical things we can learn from various ways and sources available power.
Even if this thread strives to promote a Lighting network theme from a less technical perspective, it is difficult to avoid deviations into technical aspects or even to talk about bitcoin and the reasons why people get into bitcoin in the first place - which surely there is going to be a variety of use cases in which investing for long term storage is going to overlap with various ways to transact with bitcoin.
To be honest, people never refuse to invest in bitcoin, even though they have suffered losses, because almost everyone is consistently in bitcoin and gets the maximum benefit from the investment, coupled with a complete knowledge of the things to consider.
I might be losing the point that you are striving to make - because from my perspective, I see that some bitcoiners have more conviction than others, and even if there might be a tendency to become more convicted with bitcoin the longer that we are in bitcoin, people do lose faith in bitcoin, and frequently they have difficulties getting back into bitcoin if they sold too many bitcoin too soon, or maybe they were waiting for a down that did not happen, and then they sometimes will become bitter... and getting hacked is not a good experience too.. even if bitcoin did not cause the hack.. and bitcoin did not get hack, but they end up losing their bitcoin because of the hack.. or think about some of these more recent experiences of striving to get yield.. and some people thought that they were playing safe because they were "only getting 4% or 8% yield," and they did not realize that the service that they were using (whether Celsius, BlockFi, Voyager or one of the other lending services) were getting even more interest (maybe up to 20%) when they lent out the bitcoin of their customers to 3AC.. so people can become bitter about these kinds of losses.. and even withdrawal from bitcoin based on their bad experiences and may not even know why they had lost all or most of their money - because in part they might not have understood the risk that they were taking and they also might not have learned any lessen, except "stay away from bitcoin."
There are many ways to outsmart the buy price when it drops to the sell price, all it takes is patience in recovering the accumulated correction, because bitcoin is clearly able to maintain value, so there is no need to worry and panic in this condition. That's why it is necessary to get involved in bitcoin investment, so that we can clearly know the options and terms of the negotiation, because the role of bidding and negotiation must really be able to bind people's desires.
I agree with the idea that building up your bitcoin holdings is quite likely to give more options to anyone who does that in prudent, reasonable and perhaps even somewhat aggressive ways.
I also agree that in the long term the odds for BTC to continue to go up are quite great, so if you continue to error on the side of accumulating bitcoin, you are likely going to do well with that kind of a strategy (even though there are no guarantees).
On the other hand, I don't necessarily believe that it is easy to outsmart the BTC price and it is possible that people can buy too much BTC as it is going down in price and continue to buy while believing that the bottom is in and the price continues to go lower and lower and run out of money and cause their own panic, even though they likely were doing the right thing by continuing to buy BTC on an ongoing basis.
In other words, it is still possible to be too aggressive... and then not be able to handle some kind of a cash emergency that ends up "unexpectedly" coming.
These kinds of dynamics happen all over in the world when we are dealing with people. There are always a percentage of people that we might find annoying or crazy, and some kinds of activities/jobs involve more interactions with people in the real world but also some jobs/activities can be structured in ways that might lessen or even eliminate interactions with other people or even the ability to negotiate if some people might set up their transacting arrangements as "take it or leave it" and other people love to haggle in their interactions.
So, maybe if you interact with someone and they might not have any other offers, or they believe you give them the best deal, or they can trust you not to screw with them, then they might keep coming back and referring their friends - and yeah, you may or may not want to be perceived as the "bitcoin guy" or "master of bitcoin" as you put it.
But the difference is that people can ignore things that are considered to interfere with our involvement anywhere, it doesn't matter when interaction is reduced and lost with other people, if the annoying nature of them is not changed from a narrow view to be more open, so we don't waste energy. in dealing with or serving them.
Because as you stated, that dynamics like that will continue to happen all over the world and for some people this will not be okay, because we can use negotiating skills for people who are serious about bitcoin.
The question is whether everyone involved in the dynamic discussion knows bitcoin, has ever been involved in investing and or just wants to have a wild discussion for a truth that has no effect on them.
Because for people who are aware, bitcoin is the best decision in increasing economic resources, in different ways but has the same function "Maximum Profit". Moreover, bitcoin can maintain the value of the money we spend, so waiting for the accumulation of Bull Run is not to be in a hurry, the reaction will appear after the bitcoin market finds a correction.
One thing revolves around how much obligation any of us might have to disclose in terms of engaging in a bitcoin transaction, and I would attempt to protect myself no matter which way the BTC price went, so sometimes I would set limits regarding how much I would transact in terms of just protecting myself in that transaction.. but also NOT wanting to get into some kind of situation that did not seem manageable to me.... so if someone was acting crazy, there might be some needs to limit them more in terms of how much of a transaction that you would do with them... or just telling them that you don't want to transact with them anymore.. even though sometimes it can be difficult to say those kinds of things to people without causing them to become even more crazy.
We cannot necessarily assume that everyone is making money in bitcoin even if they have been into bitcoin for a long time and the BTC price has gone up. There are people who figure out ways to lose money, even when the BTC price has been going up since its beginning to have a price in 2010... and at the same time, the last 11 months of the BTC price going down can seem like an eternity.. especially for people who injected a lot of money at prices quite a bit above $40k.. and maybe they were already running out of money when the prices got down to $40k.. because they were betting on (or hoping for?) up.
Well, sometimes we do have repetition of themes, and some members have more patience than others in terms of dealing with repetition of themes. I feel that I have way more patience with repetition when I believe that the poster is being genuine - rather than merely trolling... and sometimes it is not easy to know these answers.
I know that even I will sometimes post in ways that seem less than genuine, and maybe I either go on the attack of another member or fail to have enough patience with another member because I might make some premature presumptions about their intentions or even sometimes read the interaction/post wrongly.
And I'm sure you already have the answer to this, one's patience and persistence in any case will affect the impact on the final result to be achieved, that's why I say you already know the easy answer.
Well it is not guaranteed that patience and persistence will pay off... and that's part of the reason to be able to ride out the worst of periods, but also realizing that some preparation needs to be in place for the even worse case scenarios.. and try to apportion preparations, and even to change some appropriations from time to time, as needed, so for example, if the BTC price keeps moving against you and you run out of money, at some point, you may well have to just HODL.. or DCA.. but if you don't have a cashflow or your cashflow dries up then you are in an even worse situation.. and you must realize that all of the bad things could happen, and you should have a plan for those many bad things even if they are not highly likely to happen (from your perception and assessment)... I am not sure that I have an answer, except that each person needs to attempt to tailor his/her approach to these kinds of preparations as best as s/he can in accordance with his/her own psychological and financial circumstances.
As long as the bitcoin debate is not in technical terms, I agree not to be limited, as long as it doesn't attack and give misguided understanding to others, because it's based on the fact that bitcoin's uniqueness is due to the life of discussion , although it's not too basic for the reasons I gave.
Incorrect interactions/posts become a reference to how far they know bitcoin, dynamics sometimes don't need a reference, as long as the discussion regarding bitcoin doesn't come out of technical matters. And I'm sure, of the many people who discuss and are still unfamiliar with bitcoin, I am one of them. It may be.
Well sometimes there are needs to back up what you say with examples or facts or logic, and also sometimes there are needs to recognize when some matters are beyond your abilities to understand, but even if you are asking a question in an area that you do not understand, you can still attempt to frame what you think you know and what you think that you do not know, so at least someone might be willing to chime in.. and sometimes no one will chime in, even if you believe that you asked a good question.
People are in different stages of their learning, and some people go through shitcoin phases, or they might get reckt or they might be resentful about some earlier bitcoin (or crypto) transactions that they made, or they may be influence by either wrong information or assigning the wrong kinds of weight to the information that they know to reach bad/wrong conclusions.
We are all subject to wrong conclusions and/or weighing our evidence wrongly.
If I am interacting with a member and calling them a "dummy," I might later realize that I was the one who was the dummy - so we are all subject to getting some aspects of bitcoin wrong, and it seems that a lot of us are hear to share information - should involve both teaching and learning - even if there might be periods in which we are more on one side of the relationship depending on with whom we are interacting, and we likely can also treat other members as peers even if we might feel that we know more than they do in some areas.. but there could be areas that other members know more, including their experiences.. I cannot know your experiences unless you tell me, and I can attempt to make inferences from what you tell me, and sometimes if information is communicated badly, then I might get it wrong. and it still might NOT mean that you are a dummy just because I am having troubles understanding the message that is being attempted to communicate.
I am part of the people you say, because I started cryptocurrency from shitcoin, but after so long in this space, it seems something is wrong with my thinking about shitcoin and for that I started to develop myself to get to know bitcoin specifically.
Some people have more difficult times than others to either shake their ideas about "investing in shitcoins," and/or to figure out bitcoin's investment thesis sufficiently enough in order to at least considerably lessen their involvement in shitcoins
(whether time-wise, psychologically and/or financially).
Bowing to wrong conclusions or weighing inaccurate evidence.
I try not to blame anyone who takes a while to figure it out, and we do not even need to agree.
Since I started this space without being taught by anyone, I am self-taught about the Crypto space, so getting to the bitcoin level will be difficult for some people I have in common with.
Having a mentor or various mentors can be a good thing, even though in the end each of us has to make our own decisions regarding whether to invest in bitcoin, how much to invest and how to treat our other investments and cashflow. And, since this is a thread about lightning network, we also have to consider how much of out time and energies we want to spend in terms of learning about various lightning network related matters, and once we learn about all these things, are we going to try to mentor others or not.. and likely the mentoring process does not end, because even when you spend time trying to teach others, you are likely to find out more areas that you either do not know or that you do not know as well as you had thought that you knew them.
So maybe it is difficult to find like-minded people in the real world, so you might spend some time teaching and learning through this forum, and then trying to figure out how much you might have willing students in the real world or if they do not want to learn from you, then either they are not ready or for some reason they might need someone else to explain or to show matters to them, and sometimes I will spend time teaching some ideas to someone or to some people in the real world, and I might say that they need to study and look into these matters on their own, and sometimes I will get the sense that they are not trying hard enough and they are not spending hardly any time learning on their own like they want to be spoon fed.. and in some sense there is a need to attempt to meet people where they are at, and sometimes I am not going to be the right person to do that, even if I might spend some time "planting the seed" or going through some refresher ideas, and sometimes, I just feel that I am losing my patience.. so from time to time, I have to take a break from talking about bitcoin with certain people.
However, as long as we are willing to learn, then nothing is impossible for us to achieve.
Being interested in the topic helps a lot.. and like you said, interacting with the subject matter helps a lot too.
I became one example of thinking Shitcoin turned into bitcoin.
Sometimes we don't know what we did not know, until we learn it from another angle. So there can be a lot of ways that we have misconceptions about bitcoin that later will get cleared up... Hopefully.
As I want to know, the way you serve the discussion of many people in the forum, that's the hardest part for people like me, because what I see you are people who always consistently serve long discussions in forums about bitcoin.
Just try to find areas that you are interested in, and maybe in the beginning chime in once in a while, but not too much, and then the more that you follow the discussions, then the easier it should become to expand your participation into more various subject matters. Sometimes there could be a debate about a certain topic, and if you just go out and find a link to an article on the topic, or a meme or some other way of adding to the conversation, then the topic might expand in your direction.
Let's say that Member 1 says A, and Member 2 says a little bit A, but more B.
And, then you find an article that says sometimes A is true but sometimes A and B are true, and then the article explains why that is the case, and then you explain what the article says, and then you say whether you believe the article or if you might believe member 1 or member 2, or you might say that you believe that they all are full of shit, because there is another important angle that all of them are failing to account for..... so sometimes it takes a bit of time and a bit of reading before you might be able to challenge certain subject matters, but then you can also ask questions regarding some parts of the discussion that you believe are also important, and maybe Member 1 and member 2 will call you a newbie idiot, and so it is not always easy to know how conversations will advance, yet you should not be dissuaded if members disagree with you, if you believe that you are submitting valid information or a legitimate perspective... while at the same time trying to learn or admitting you were wrong if it ends up that you were wrong.
There are many ways available in bitcoin, this uniqueness will appear when someone seriously explores the best side of bitcoin, while how to use, transact and invest is a technical part that must be studied well, so that some beginners do not get caught in fear when bitcoin undergoes a correction.While the bitcoin cycle can be seen as the basis from which we should start, if bitcoin thinking has become the basis for investment decisions, then the technicalities will emerge in understanding and following developments.
I think that the building and growth in terms of
the seven network effects better outlines what you seem to be suggesting in terms of the growth of bitcoin continuing to grow.. and also the Lindy Effect idea, too.. (like described in
this Bitcoin Magazine article) which largely suggest that the longer a thing is around and thriving, the more likely it is going to continue to survive, at least as long as the time period that it has already been around.
Maybe multiple people around the world had roughly the same ideas about a decentralized electronic currency, but Satoshi launched it first? Who knows...
Fuck off with your fantasy spin attempt and pure making up of facts that are not in existence.
There is no such "maybe" because what happened is that Satoshi took a lot of ideas that already previously existed and put them into a package in which no one else had previously put, nor contemporaneously, either.
Bitcoin had a about a year and a half of running before it got any possible monetary traction in terms of people trying to give a price to it.. and prior to mid-2010, the bitcoins that had been mined had largely been treated like testnet coins... even though later they started to get monetary value.. as we all have come to realize.. and it took a bit of time for such traction to build.
Or maybe it was too premature to launch it back in 1996-2003, since always-online broadband (ADSL) wasn't as widespread.
It was premature because it had not yet been invented. Various aspects of bitcoin were invented, but not the putting together of all of the concepts into the package that bitcoin ended up resolving matters that had not previously been resolved, including the incentives that were created in the whole package and the difficulties to screw with it because of the difficulty adjustments.. and surely the whole package put together a package that was an invention and a new thing, even though it consisted of a variety of existing parts and concepts.
Sketchy dial-up connections (56K modems) just wouldn't cut it.
Fair enough about the communication and internet connectivity technology being better in 2008 as compared with 2003... but still does not mean that bitcoin was invented prior to 2008. You have no evidence of that beyond nearly pure pie in the sky speculation that is nearly completely detached from reality like Santa Claus
(I am trying to be seasonal here).
