Lightning Network Observer

[n0nce]

people want fresh meat or meat they can trust. LN is and does neither

So what's the 'fresh meat' here then? The almost decade-old, countless times busted 'big block' idea? It has become irrelevant many years ago, even before Lightning started.
Do you have anything new to bring to the table except complaining?

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[franky1]

people want fresh meat or meat they can trust. LN is and does neither

So what's the 'fresh meat' here then? The almost decade-old, countless times busted 'big block' idea? It has become irrelevant many years ago, even before Lightning started.
Do you have anything new to bring to the table except complaining?

over the years i have gave lots of little tid-bits of idea's for you lot to roll with to fix things. but your snake oil mindsets didnt think of it as suggestions you seen it as threats to your utopian promises and you took it as an attack on your promotions.. because thats all you lot care about really

heck many people in this topic have said about issues and you lot just pretend its user error or pretend that its someone else fault. brushing things under the carpet. afraid to admit the problems exist as it hurts your promotion efforts.

so the real question about your flawed network.. do you have anything new to bring to the table apart from promoting "delay bitcoin because we want to recruit people elsewhere and syphon funds out of them because we are greedy parasites"

have you forgot why bitcoin was invented. do you even understand what bitcoin brings to the table that your non consensus non auditable network does not. do you even know why bitcoin was made to be something different to the wall street parasite game

as for whats new.. as already said so many people are sick and tired of your groups mantra of "bitcoin should not scale anytime soon because LN is the solution".. so much so that MORE value is actually being locked to other bridging subnetworks more so than LN because many people have seen and experienced how broke LN is
even coinbase, sister company to lightning-core does not want to use LN.. take that as a big hint.. as for other features designed just for allowing gateways to LN.. again even coinbase as custodian of grayscale trust fund doesnt want to use bech addresses to secure large funds. heck even bech32 invetor for many years has not offered a donation address in his own creation. even the LN devs still are begging for donations on legacy. so not only avoiding bech32 but also avoiding LN uri..

seems you are yet to see the reality.
people are sick of the mantra you like to repeat. and yet because you lot repeat it i then have to wade through your crap to re-inform people of the issues. the flaws you lot keep trying to pretend dont exist
yes i know you dont like me popping up and poking holes in your promotions. i know it ruins your plans. but other people do actually care about risk awareness and dont want to be sold broken promises and dreams that never come to reality. they dont want to be told just wait another 7 years, keep your funds locked into crap systems for years and just wait

you lot cant keep just brushing your systems issues under the carpet and then say that bitcoin should only process IF your crap system succeeds as that is just insane proposition

so realise outside of your echo chamber bubbles of just a dozen indoctrinated snake oil sales men. realise THOUSANDS of people are peed off with your silly niche subnetwork diverting people away from bitcoin progression

so much so there are many other subnetworks overtaking your silly little fad called LN

..
and so instead of just trying to recruit idiots into your crap network thats flawed. either accept its broke and start a new subnetwork that has better design to meet your niche needs. or fix the flaws to then have something people would use as a niche. because right now your just dragging a dead horse down a dirt track trying to see how many flies you can attract

[cryptosize]

even coinbase, sister company to lightning-core does not want to use LN.. take that as a big hint..

Uhm, what? Have you been living under a rock or what?

https://beincrypto.com/coinbase-will-integrate-bitcoin-lightning-network/

again even coinbase as custodian of grayscale trust fund doesnt want to use bech addresses to secure large funds. heck even bech32 invetor for many years has not offered a donation address in his own creation. even the LN devs still are begging for donations on legacy. so not only avoiding bech32 but also avoiding LN uri..

So, now you also reject SegWit/Bech32? Along with Taproot, seed phrases, LN and god knows what else...

Franky gonna franky. You don't want any kind of evolution (unless it's approved by Franky). Gotcha!

[cAPSLOCK]

A little bird clued me into something...

https://www.lightspark.com/



This company  is producing a lightning SDK and set of APIs (I think?) for enterprise use.  Multiple customer targets, but likely banks, and busy commerce.

In itself this is interesting.  And bullish because of the serious dev going on in the lightning space...

But the CEO.  David A. Marcus.  He was Facebook's Chief Shitcoin Officer.  The guy behind Libra and Diem.

Seems he saw the light?  That's a pretty big shift going from trying to be "the next Bitcoin" to diving all the way into developing a Bitcoin Protocol/Lightning Network Protocol (BP/LNP) services company.

[DooMAD]

This company is producing a lightning SDK and set of APIs (I think?) for enterprise use.  Multiple customer targets, but likely banks, and busy commerce.

In itself this is interesting.  And bullish because of the serious dev going on in the lightning space...

But the CEO.  David A. Marcus.  He was Facebook's Chief Shitcoin Officer.  The guy behind Libra and Diem.

Is it bullish when people with significant failures on their resume tread the "if you can't beat them, join them" path?  I'm not wholly convinced on that one.

start a new subnetwork

Oh, I see.  Because you've now finally realised that telling people what they "aren't allowed to do" was never going to work (took you long enough), your new ploy is to helpfully suggest they start from scratch?   

So, before they begin this total redesign, should they consult with you first on what design choices you would personally approve of?  After all, it's vital that we gain your "consent", right?  I guess I just keep forgetting that all these devs exist solely to bow to your demands.  For someone who doesn't code or have any skin in the development game whatsoever, basically a glorified armchair-pundit with no relevant experience or qualifications, you sure do think highly of yourself.   


Sometimes I wonder if your ego could be any larger.  And then you write another post.

[cAPSLOCK]

This company is producing a lightning SDK and set of APIs (I think?) for enterprise use.  Multiple customer targets, but likely banks, and busy commerce.

In itself this is interesting.  And bullish because of the serious dev going on in the lightning space...

But the CEO.  David A. Marcus.  He was Facebook's Chief Shitcoin Officer.  The guy behind Libra and Diem.

Is it bullish when people with significant failures on their resume tread the "if you can't beat them, join them" path?  I'm not wholly convinced on that one.

Well, that is the most negative way to see it.  And you could be right.  The dude might just be a loser.

And he was just lucky to have been the President of PayPal, and eventually a Meta VP.  And I do not say that sarcastically... I do not think being a C-level person at a huge corporation means you are smart more than it means you are driven, and possibly a sociopath. lol.

But LOTS of people at this forum were shitcoiners before they finally realized Bitcoin IS significantly different.

Yeah.  I do think "if you can't beat em, join em" might be bullish.

[franky1]

even coinbase, sister company to lightning-core does not want to use LN.. take that as a big hint..

Uhm, what? Have you been living under a rock or what?

isnt it funny how coinbase has avoided LN for YEARS,,
and then when some people finally speak up and note that it has.. that this week coinbase finally wants to talk about it.. oh and yea they only said it because MANY people have been saying how coinbase has stayed away from LN for years

i do laugh that you think its franky vs 12 idiots .. where you lot like to ignore the other THOUSANDS of people in many topics about bitcoin scaling that are peed off with bitcoin fees and lack of transactions per block

so while you want to pretend "just franky".. reality shows there are thousands of people talking about it..
and many other subnetwork bridges to bitcoin prospering better than LN has.. i dont even use those, but the fact they exist and have bettered LN in a 3rd of the time is very revealing

just a pitty you didnt get out of the cave to see the wider world to actually articulate the whole situation

and coinbase said 'we will', which is as vague as they said 'we will' about other crapcoins
promises or future "we will" are not the same as actual proof or utility ability

it is funny how all the time all everyone hears is from the DCG projects is "well will soon, just be patient"

[cygan]

A little bird clued me into something...

https://www.lightspark.com/



This company  is producing a lightning SDK and set of APIs (I think?) for enterprise use.  Multiple customer targets, but likely banks, and busy commerce.
✂️

the new Lightspark platform is designed to provide infrastructure specifically for large enterprises to enable a reliable and efficient payment service. this not only simplifies payment processes for companies, but could also drive acceptance for the Lightning network as the internet's open payment protocol.
a further step in the right direction

[cygan]

MicroStrategy integrates BTC-lightning addresses into company emails. this means that any employee can send BTC to the recipient quickly & inexpensively via email address

https://www.coindesk.com/tech/2023/04/18/microstrategys-saylor-integrates-bitcoin-lightning-address-into-corporate-email/

[cAPSLOCK]

MicroStrategy integrates BTC-lightning addresses into company emails. this means that any employee can send BTC to the recipient quickly & inexpensively via email address

https://www.coindesk.com/tech/2023/04/18/microstrategys-saylor-integrates-bitcoin-lightning-address-into-corporate-email/

saylor@microstrategy.com has been receiving a torrent of 21sat payments.  Like he needs any more!

[cryptosize]

MicroStrategy integrates BTC-lightning addresses into company emails. this means that any employee can send BTC to the recipient quickly & inexpensively via email address

https://www.coindesk.com/tech/2023/04/18/microstrategys-saylor-integrates-bitcoin-lightning-address-into-corporate-email/

saylor@microstrategy.com has been receiving a torrent of 21sat payments.  Like he needs any more!

Just like Satoshi's Genesis address (it's even more futile there). These donations make zero sense.

[fillippone]

We are already winning:
Bitcoin Lightning Network is 1,000x cheaper than Visa and MasterCard: Data

LN is proving an excellent layer for transactional bitcoin:

The median fee rate, or the cost of sending value across the Lightning Network, is 0.0029%, 1,000 times cheaper than that of MasterCard of Visa payment processors.

Just think about what happened in El Salvador. The only presence of LN as an alternative way of sending money, made wire transfer companies, eating up to 30% in fees to slashes the fees for remittances.

[Zanab247]

We are already winning:
Bitcoin Lightning Network is 1,000x cheaper than Visa and MasterCard: Data

LN is proving an excellent layer for transactional bitcoin:

Indeed the teams are really working to ensure their is improvement in Bitcoin-lighting network and the number of registered has increased because so many people has benefited from the cheap rate.

[cAPSLOCK]

Well...  I will post it here since a few of you may have just noticed you have a few more sats in your onchain wallets again.  

Jeed, has joined his mirror image Deej in the abyss.

It was caused by nothing your resident troll could wag his finger at.  No flaws in either LND or CL.  Just the foibles of a man, who try as he might, is apt to do silly things.  Well Deej failed because of a fritzed HDD.  While Jeed was slain by his master accidentally posting his private keys on an image sharing site.  

Yes.  You read that right.  And it's a long story in which the hero thought he had CROPPED the funny image he was going to post somewhere but instead uploaded both of his monitors.  The OTHER monitor had a notepad open with the list of LND and CL seeds (and passwords in at least one case!) he has used.

The image was deleted from the sharing site within moments of having been posted.  But we know all about how "deleting" works nowadays.  Perhaps some admin will see the image and think he's struck it rich.  Luckily for me I know my way around both LND and CL fairly well now.  In fact let me take a moment to praise the power of the lightning-cli command (CL).  What a powerful set of tools there! I was able to use

Code:

 lightning-cli listpeers

to get a running list of my "close_to_addr": "bc1qnevergonnagiveyouupnevergonnaletyoudown", for each channel.  and swept the funds off right away.  In fact closing down the node was very easy.

I am proud to say in spite of my ridiculous error last night I do know hopw to work both node implimentations quite well, and have well formed opinions of each.

Bottom line?

LND is more widely used, and for what ever reasons routes better than CL for the most part.
CL is just better software all the way around. The command line management is fantastic once you learn it.

But they are both great implementations, I think.  Today I am fighting off the urge to spin up an Eclair node, which I have not done so far... but yeah.  I think the roller coaster of me running lightning nodes might need to stop for a moment.  However running the little BTC node on the Raspberry Pi will likely continue for some time.  I don't need the hard drive yet.

Oh well.  It's been fun.  And I will likely still hang around here.  Who knows?  Maybe I will spin up another node eventually.

[fillippone]

Oh well.  It's been fun.  And I will likely still hang around here.  Who knows?  Maybe I will spin up another node eventually.

Please do.

Your almost-horror story was quite fun to read, but I can only imagine how the drama unfolded.

In the end, you did the right thing.
And you learnt something new.
I hope we won't lose your enthusiasm for firing other nodes!

[cAPSLOCK]

Oh well.  It's been fun.  And I will likely still hang around here.  Who knows?  Maybe I will spin up another node eventually.

Please do.

Your almost-horror story was quite fun to read, but I can only imagine how the drama unfolded.

In the end, you did the right thing.
And you learnt something new.
I hope we won't lose your enthusiasm for firing other nodes!

Oh.  It might happen sooner than I had thought!  I cannot stand trying to get Breeze running half as well as Zeus + either of my RPi nodes.

I am just stuck with a set of decision.

1.  CL or LND? This is hard.  I DO NOT want to run two.  I was running both when the HDD failed last time.  And there is no need to run more than one node as a hobbyist.  Too much to manage.  And running one will allow me to drop a reasonable amount of sats in the node and maybe enjoy seeing routing more often again.  And if routing is what I want to prioritize it seems LND would be the choice.  It routes better in my experience.  

2.  Stick with the RPi setup or graduate to something more stout?  There are a lot of good arguments for the latter.  Raid being the simple easiest one to see.  Particularly with LND since it's channel backup stuff is not (or at least WAS not) quite as well done as CL's.  The hard drive failure we simple to recover from in CL, but tricky with LND.  But the Pi takes just a few watts more than a nightlight (possibly even less really) and that is attractive.  And it is plenty of CPU.  And I COULD always just hook a little raid enclosure up to it for that purpose... hmm.

3.  Stick with Raspiblitz, or?  First of all I will not "roll my own".  I CAN for sure. I am highly Linux fluent, and would have no problem compiling and deploying the software.  I have done this in the past.  But maintainence is a bear.  And the LND/CL distros (Raspiblitz, Raspibolt, Umbrel, MyNode, others) I really like the ethos and style of Raspiblitz.  I am more a ssh/bash type of person that a Web Interface type.  But Umbrel does offer a lot of cool plugins... hrm.

And finally I have to come up with some other silly name.  Deej was a beast, but is gone.  Jeed never really flourished.  What is next?

[Kryptowerk]

We are already winning:
Bitcoin Lightning Network is 1,000x cheaper than Visa and MasterCard: Data

LN is proving an excellent layer for transactional bitcoin:

The median fee rate, or the cost of sending value across the Lightning Network, is 0.0029%, 1,000 times cheaper than that of MasterCard of Visa payment processors.

[...]

That's a lovely article. Wish LN got more of the attention it deserves.
Something I haven't given much thought yet, but this must be truely scary for the big players, MasterCard, Visa, Paypal and all similar payment-apps mainly used in asian countries.
-> Why would any merchant want to continue using them, draining fees over fees each day, when there is a decentralized solution with a TRUELY negligible fee. The only thing holding anyone back is adoption and legislation.

[Artifex]

We are already winning:
Bitcoin Lightning Network is 1,000x cheaper than Visa and MasterCard: Data

LN is proving an excellent layer for transactional bitcoin:

The median fee rate, or the cost of sending value across the Lightning Network, is 0.0029%, 1,000 times cheaper than that of MasterCard of Visa payment processors.

Just think about what happened in El Salvador. The only presence of LN as an alternative way of sending money, made wire transfer companies, eating up to 30% in fees to slashes the fees for remittances.

cheaper but slower. This prevents acceptance as a means of payment. Speculative tool, yes. An investment vehicle, yes. Payment instrument, no

[cAPSLOCK]

You know...  my CL node ran for about 1/3rd the time the LND node ran.  The fact the database is nearly an order of magnitude larger is interesting.

I can only assume most of that data is failed routing? lol.  I really am curious.  The LND node also had 5x the # of channels.

Causes a chin-scratchening.

[cryptosize]

You know...  my CL node ran for about 1/3rd the time the LND node ran.  The fact the database is nearly an order of magnitude larger is interesting.

I can only assume most of that data is failed routing? lol.  I really am curious.  The LND node also had 5x the # of channels.

Causes a chin-scratchening.

Disappointing for CLN. I don't like LND's (Lightning Labs) affiliation with WEF and their "reluctance" to adopt BOLT12.