Bitcoin Forum
April 28, 2024, 02:45:38 PM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 27.0 [Torrent]
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Pages: « 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 »
  Print  
Author Topic: Lightning Network Observer  (Read 13027 times)
tranthidung
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2254
Merit: 3983


Farewell o_e_l_e_o


View Profile WWW
August 28, 2021, 02:41:24 AM
 #41

There you go with my topic

▄▄███████▄▄
▄██████████████▄
▄██████████████████▄
▄████▀▀▀▀███▀▀▀▀█████▄
▄█████████████▄█▀████▄
███████████▄███████████
██████████▄█▀███████████
██████████▀████████████
▀█████▄█▀█████████████▀
▀████▄▄▄▄███▄▄▄▄████▀
▀██████████████████▀
▀███████████████▀
▀▀███████▀▀
.
 MΞTAWIN  THE FIRST WEB3 CASINO   
.
.. PLAY NOW ..
1714315538
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1714315538

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1714315538
Reply with quote  #2

1714315538
Report to moderator
1714315538
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1714315538

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1714315538
Reply with quote  #2

1714315538
Report to moderator
The forum was founded in 2009 by Satoshi and Sirius. It replaced a SourceForge forum.
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction.
fillippone (OP)
Legendary
*
Online Online

Activity: 2142
Merit: 15403


Fully fledged Merit Cycler - Golden Feather 22-23


View Profile WWW
August 30, 2021, 11:09:51 AM
Last edit: May 15, 2023, 11:13:29 PM by fillippone
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)
 #42

LN user experience is getting even better with Lightning Addresses:


https://lightningaddress.com/

Quote
We created the Lightning Address protocol to empower everyone to send money like we send emails — instantly and abundantly. Coupled with the Lightning Network’s ability to send Bitcoin instantly and with (almost) no fees, we’re ushering in a new standard for how value moves around the world.




https://twitter.com/PCristi7/status/1431531884778070025?s=20

Video:

https://twitter.com/andreneves/status/1431411673915592709?s=20

Official Repository: https://github.com/andrerfneves/lightning-address
Dev Documentation: https://github.com/andrerfneves/lightning-address/blob/master/README.md

Discover More Here:
[Lightning] The Lightning Address by ndalliard

.
.HUGE.
▄██████████▄▄
▄█████████████████▄
▄█████████████████████▄
▄███████████████████████▄
▄█████████████████████████▄
███████▌██▌▐██▐██▐████▄███
████▐██▐████▌██▌██▌██▌██
█████▀███▀███▀▐██▐██▐█████

▀█████████████████████████▀

▀███████████████████████▀

▀█████████████████████▀

▀█████████████████▀

▀██████████▀▀
█▀▀▀▀











█▄▄▄▄
▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀
.
CASINSPORTSBOOK
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
▀▀▀▀█











▄▄▄▄█
ndalliard
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 154
Merit: 177



View Profile
August 30, 2021, 11:14:25 AM
 #43

<-->
discussion about the lightning address maybe in this topic i opened about it
cygan
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 3136
Merit: 7714


Cashback 15%


View Profile WWW
September 01, 2021, 06:51:30 AM
Last edit: May 15, 2023, 05:43:31 PM by cygan
Merited by fillippone (3)
 #44

if you live not far from el salvador, you can buy some ticktes for the 'Adopting Bitcoin - A Lightning Summit 2021' in mid november and then visit this interesting conference Smiley
and what i find very good is that 100% of profits from the summit will be donated to support the lightning network development👌💪



Quote
The adoption of Bitcoin in the Republic of El Salvador caused excitement around the world. It’s time to shine! Adopting Bitcoin is bringing together the Bitcoin and Lightning community in San Salvador and El Zonte to create connections and foster the future of money and payments in the Central American republic.
https://adoptingbitcoin.org/

.
.HUGE.
▄██████████▄▄
▄█████████████████▄
▄█████████████████████▄
▄███████████████████████▄
▄█████████████████████████▄
███████▌██▌▐██▐██▐████▄███
████▐██▐████▌██▌██▌██▌██
█████▀███▀███▀▐██▐██▐█████

▀█████████████████████████▀

▀███████████████████████▀

▀█████████████████████▀

▀█████████████████▀

▀██████████▀▀
█▀▀▀▀











█▄▄▄▄
▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀
.
CASINSPORTSBOOK
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
▀▀▀▀█











▄▄▄▄█
fillippone (OP)
Legendary
*
Online Online

Activity: 2142
Merit: 15403


Fully fledged Merit Cycler - Golden Feather 22-23


View Profile WWW
September 01, 2021, 02:59:37 PM
Last edit: May 15, 2023, 11:12:37 PM by fillippone
Merited by Symmetrick (1)
 #45

Breaking news! TWITTER + STRIKE = LN TIPPING!

TWITTER BETA TESTING BITCOIN LIGHTNING TIPPING SERVICE
Quote
Twitter is now testing the ability to tip users in Bitcoin through Jack Maller’s lightning network app Strike.



.
.HUGE.
▄██████████▄▄
▄█████████████████▄
▄█████████████████████▄
▄███████████████████████▄
▄█████████████████████████▄
███████▌██▌▐██▐██▐████▄███
████▐██▐████▌██▌██▌██▌██
█████▀███▀███▀▐██▐██▐█████

▀█████████████████████████▀

▀███████████████████████▀

▀█████████████████████▀

▀█████████████████▀

▀██████████▀▀
█▀▀▀▀











█▄▄▄▄
▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀
.
CASINSPORTSBOOK
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
▀▀▀▀█











▄▄▄▄█
icopress
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1624
Merit: 7778


light_warrior ... 🕯️


View Profile WWW
September 01, 2021, 03:16:54 PM
 #46

So, protests have escalated in El Salvador ... as they say, the CIA is not asleep, meanwhile Twitter is launching a beta test of the bitcoin tipping service, and in parallel is developing Bluesky, [I'll try to find out what people say about this on the Twitter forum, and what need to become a beta tester]. Meanwhile, SEC continues to reject ETF requests ... I think a storm is coming.

█▀▀▀











█▄▄▄
▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀
e
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
█████████████
████████████▄███
██▐███████▄█████▀
█████████▄████▀
███▐████▄███▀
████▐██████▀
█████▀█████
███████████▄
████████████▄
██▄█████▀█████▄
▄█████████▀█████▀
███████████▀██▀
████▀█████████
▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀
c.h.
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
▀▀▀█











▄▄▄█
▄██████▄▄▄
█████████████▄▄
███████████████
███████████████
███████████████
███████████████
███░░█████████
███▌▐█████████
█████████████
███████████▀
██████████▀
████████▀
▀██▀▀
fillippone (OP)
Legendary
*
Online Online

Activity: 2142
Merit: 15403


Fully fledged Merit Cycler - Golden Feather 22-23


View Profile WWW
September 01, 2021, 09:14:43 PM
Last edit: May 15, 2023, 11:12:27 PM by fillippone
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)
 #47

Do you want to work in Lightning?


https://www.lightningjobs.app/


Something caught my eye while casually browsing for jobs on a Strike work ad:

Quote
We do not make hiring decisions based on educational history whatsoever. Our founder is a college dropout. We employ high school dropouts, PhD candidates and everything in-between. We do not hire credentials. We simply hire talented, passionate individuals who are excited to be a part of our team.
Quote

I can't think of anything more destructive than that.


.
.HUGE.
▄██████████▄▄
▄█████████████████▄
▄█████████████████████▄
▄███████████████████████▄
▄█████████████████████████▄
███████▌██▌▐██▐██▐████▄███
████▐██▐████▌██▌██▌██▌██
█████▀███▀███▀▐██▐██▐█████

▀█████████████████████████▀

▀███████████████████████▀

▀█████████████████████▀

▀█████████████████▀

▀██████████▀▀
█▀▀▀▀











█▄▄▄▄
▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀
.
CASINSPORTSBOOK
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
▀▀▀▀█











▄▄▄▄█
cAPSLOCK
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 3738
Merit: 5127


Whimsical Pants


View Profile
September 09, 2021, 03:08:13 PM
Merited by fillippone (3), JayJuanGee (1)
 #48

When I first spun up my lightning nodes in 2019 they would possibly route 2 or 3 transactions (not my own) each month.

In 2020 they would process 2-5 transactions a week.

In 2021 they would do 20-50 a month.

At THIS point (9/21) I am seeing HUNDREDS of transactions go through a DAY.
fillippone (OP)
Legendary
*
Online Online

Activity: 2142
Merit: 15403


Fully fledged Merit Cycler - Golden Feather 22-23


View Profile WWW
September 09, 2021, 11:19:39 PM
Last edit: May 15, 2023, 11:08:00 PM by fillippone
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)
 #49

When I first spun up my lightning nodes in 2019 they would possibly route 2 or 3 transactions (not my own) each month.

In 2020 they would process 2-5 transactions a week.

In 2021 they would do 20-50 a month.

At THIS point (9/21) I am seeing HUNDREDS of transactions go through a DAY.

Anedotcical evidence of Lightning Network growing day after day is building up. Of course due to the privacy guaranteed by the protocol is very difficult to assess the growth without relying on unproven claims by node operators.

But when all go on the same direction the easiest explanations is probably the true one:


https://twitter.com/alexbosworth/status/1433988909600411649?s=21

Well done @cAPSLOCK

.
.HUGE.
▄██████████▄▄
▄█████████████████▄
▄█████████████████████▄
▄███████████████████████▄
▄█████████████████████████▄
███████▌██▌▐██▐██▐████▄███
████▐██▐████▌██▌██▌██▌██
█████▀███▀███▀▐██▐██▐█████

▀█████████████████████████▀

▀███████████████████████▀

▀█████████████████████▀

▀█████████████████▀

▀██████████▀▀
█▀▀▀▀











█▄▄▄▄
▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀
.
CASINSPORTSBOOK
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
▀▀▀▀█











▄▄▄▄█
cAPSLOCK
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 3738
Merit: 5127


Whimsical Pants


View Profile
September 10, 2021, 12:48:32 AM
Merited by fillippone (3)
 #50

When I first spun up my lightning nodes in 2019 they would possibly route 2 or 3 transactions (not my own) each month.

In 2020 they would process 2-5 transactions a week.

In 2021 they would do 20-50 a month.

At THIS point (9/21) I am seeing HUNDREDS of transactions go through a DAY.

Anedotcical evidence of Lightning Network growing day after day is building up. Of course due to the privacy guaranteed by the protocol is very difficult to assess the growth without relying on unproven claims by node operators.

But when all go on the same direction the easiest explanations is probably the true one:


https://twitter.com/alexbosworth/status/1433988909600411649?s=21

Well done @cAPSLOCK

Thank you!  And yes, Bos is killing it. I imagine he is actually making money running his nodes as well.  My humble little node is actually one of his "BOS" rated nodes.  I think I recently made it into the double digits, I was literally tied for 99 I think. lol.

I am glad folks like him can monetize their routing.  His fees are actually pretty high...
per tx: 1.000 sat  $0.000464888
per sat: 0.002500 sat  $0.000001162219

I imagine he is actually routing an occasional transaction that is MORE expensive than the base layer!  A $1000 transaction would cost more than $2 I think...  But then, why not use the base layer for a 2.2mm sat transaction.  And he is charging a premium for actually routing those payments.  He also has a amazingly high threshold size on his channels... I feel like the last time I looked he wanted ~ 16mm sats?  And although I might like to have another 16mm channel (I only have one), I doubt I would want to open it with Bosworth just because of the fees...

I am encouraged there is a low fee movement taking hold with us more ordinary nodes.  I believe it will benefit the network, and that is a good thing.  And I agree with Rene Pickhardt that zero base fees is a VERY good idea.  Not because I am against people making money... but because it really supports the idea of micropayments, and streaming payments.  I would also like to see a threshold.  Like <50k sats no fees.

I am starting to see lots of transactions to Podcast.info that are between 1-5 sats.  And a single sat base fee would possibly cost the same amount that the listener is sending.  I charge 0/0 on that node.

In a way it is an interesting problem for wallet makers.  A $100 lightning network payment could be free, or it could cost $1.  And you don't know what you've paid till the payment is sent.

Anyway... rambling now.
Wind_FURY
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2898
Merit: 1823



View Profile
September 10, 2021, 10:23:51 AM
 #51

Shower thought for Lightning Network Observers, will Lightning fees be cheaper and cheaper as the network grows, and its participants increase? Or will it be higher and higher?

I believe it’s another important question before we assume anything about the Lightning Network.

██████████████████████
█████████████████████████
█████████████████████████
█████████████████████████
█████████████████████████
█████████████████████████
█████████████████████████
█████████████████████████
█████████████████████████
█████████████████████████
█████████████████████████
█████████████████████████
██████████████████████
.SHUFFLE.COM..███████████████████████
███████████████████████
███████████████████████
███████████████████████
███████████████████████
█████████████████████
████████████████████
██████████████████████
████████████████████
██████████████████████
███████████████████████
███████████████████████
███████████████████████
███████████████████████
███████████████████████
███████████████████████
██████████████████████
██████████████████████
██████████████████████
███████████████████████
███████████████████████
███████████████████████
███████████████████████
███████████████████████
███████████████████████
███████████████████████
.
...Next Generation Crypto Casino...
cAPSLOCK
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 3738
Merit: 5127


Whimsical Pants


View Profile
September 10, 2021, 02:02:55 PM
Merited by Rath_ (10), fillippone (3), d5000 (1), JayJuanGee (1)
 #52

Shower thought for Lightning Network Observers, will Lightning fees be cheaper and cheaper as the network grows, and its participants increase? Or will it be higher and higher?

I believe it’s another important question before we assume anything about the Lightning Network.

I have given this some thought.

Things depend on what we call a participant and how the distribution of them looks.  Here are the sorts of participants as I see them:

1.  Bank nodes
These may actually end up BEING banks, but we will also see Lightning Service Providers in this role.  Examples are the Wallet of Satoshi node.  Or the IBEX node which I believe is processing the Chivo payments.  These nodes are big, and deeply connected.  They are the scary "banks" that "Blockstream has replaced the miners with".  And they are correctly identified as hubs.  These are the ones the big blockers will point to when they are arguing that lightning centralizes control of Bitcoin.  In the future I believe actual BANKS will also have nodes like this.  Western Union, and Wells fargo better be spinning up BP/LNP nodes RIGHT NOW if they want to remain relevant.  Rarely would an individual run a node like this, but Alex Bosworth's node probably classifies.  I personally do not see them as evil, or negative unless they take over the entire network, which I think is unlikely.  These nodes can see large traffic in both directions.

2. Merchant nodes
These would be big "takers" of liquidity like Bitrefil and other places bitcoin is SPENT.  Eventually, companies like Starbucks might end up spinning up their own nodes once they realize this is a better return for them than having a service provider handle it.  Hard to say... some businesses will likely run their own, but for a while I imagine many businesses that TAKE bitcoin will use the services of an LSP.  These nodes will also likely be BIG and well connected HUBS.  Eventually I envision large retailers like grocery stores, and big box places running their own nodes just because of the amount of money moved around as well as thin margins.  They also have an incentive to be able to capture the data of their customers directly. "2%off if you are connected to our node!"  It could be advantageous for merchants to have a direct connection to customer nodes. These nodes will see more incoming than outgoing traffic.  I can even see big merchants becoming LSPs.  Your grocery store also becomes your one of your banks so to speak.

3.  Non custodial LSP nodes 
These are unique.  Wallet makers like Breez, Phoenix and Muun makes apps that allow users to run Neutrino nodes on clients like phones.  These wallets currently handle all lightning stuff in the background.  They open a channel (or more?) on behalf of the customer.  Presumably they are using their own nodes which are sort of a subset of the #1 nodes up there.  Again, these are well connected HUBS.  But the users are not really nodes but dead ends on the network.  The business model for these LSPs will be to charge fees on the first hop.

4.  Hobbiest/Pro routing nodes
This is what I run.  This is a generally smaller node with strategic targeted connections to the network.  They can be run for several reasons.  A computer hobbyist with a rPi will run them.  Self-sovereign bitcoinners that want to "be their own bank" and preserve their privacy might run them.  Idealists who want to keep bitcoin as decentralized as possible might run them.  I think they are quite important.  These are the nodes that keep the network from ONLY being run on commercial grade nodes and captured.  We might be motivated by making a little profit for routing, or like me motivated to provide low/zero cost connectivity between 1,2 and 3 as well as the ability for user to user connections.  I personally connect to several of the above nodes as well as rings of peers to keep the network as distributed as possible and drive fees down.  It is hard to imagine that this will ever be more than a minority percentage of the network, in connectivity, and liquidity.  But i do think enough of us will have a palpable effect on the overall network.  We are the X degrees of separation that will route around the big powerful hubs, thereby forcing them to be better network citizens.

5.  Dead end users
This could be the majority of users. These are users who use a custodial wallet (arguably not really lightning users at all, but customers of lightning businesses), or a non-custodial wallet that does not route at all.  So these are the dead end spokes on the hubs in 1, and 3 (and maybe 4?).  Since they do not route payments they do not really have an effect on the network other than providing velocity and liquidity for the routing nodes to handle.  These "nodes" will handle way more outbound transactions, but will also process "Venmo" type user/user payments as well as refunds.

To your point, I think #4 is the lynchpin for how fees end up working.  If there are enough of us providing low fee connectivity I think the cost for payments could be kept very low or even free for the archetypal "coffee transaction".  Small transactions from customers to businesses, or from user to user could find lightning pathways that cost very little and do not even have to touch some of the hubs.  I would guess we see the hubs being involved in transactions that are big enough that it becomes hard to find pathways between the idealists.  But my node has enough inbound and outbound liquidity that I could route payments approaching $10kUSD at today's prices.

Anyway.. it is VERY interesting in my opinion... and we are still in the infant stages of it.  It will be fun to watch! 
n0nce
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 882
Merit: 5814


not your keys, not your coins!


View Profile WWW
September 10, 2021, 06:48:44 PM
 #53

I would guess we see the hubs being involved in transactions that are big enough that it becomes hard to find pathways between the idealists.  But my node has enough inbound and outbound liquidity that I could route payments approaching $10kUSD at today's prices.
A very interesting point to consider: us little hobbyist idealist node operators that open a few 1M satoshi channels here and there, that like in your case can route a couple thousand $ right now, will be able to route hundreds of thousands as the price of Bitcoin increases.

So even without new channels, without new Bitcoin-denominated liquidity, the $-denominated liquidity increases over time.

This means even if we now just connect each other through lots of - at the moment - small channels and see little activity and routing going on, the nodes' importance and abilities will rise without even touching them simply by the Bitcoin price rising.

That's why I think especially the 'idealist node operators' who started their operation early, will stay relevant and will be able to compete with future 'bank nodes' or 'merchant nodes'.

█▀▀▀











█▄▄▄
▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀
e
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
█████████████
████████████▄███
██▐███████▄█████▀
█████████▄████▀
███▐████▄███▀
████▐██████▀
█████▀█████
███████████▄
████████████▄
██▄█████▀█████▄
▄█████████▀█████▀
███████████▀██▀
████▀█████████
▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀
c.h.
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
▀▀▀█











▄▄▄█
▄██████▄▄▄
█████████████▄▄
███████████████
███████████████
███████████████
███████████████
███░░█████████
███▌▐█████████
█████████████
███████████▀
██████████▀
████████▀
▀██▀▀
cAPSLOCK
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 3738
Merit: 5127


Whimsical Pants


View Profile
September 10, 2021, 08:50:35 PM
 #54

I would guess we see the hubs being involved in transactions that are big enough that it becomes hard to find pathways between the idealists.  But my node has enough inbound and outbound liquidity that I could route payments approaching $10kUSD at today's prices.
A very interesting point to consider: us little hobbyist idealist node operators that open a few 1M satoshi channels here and there, that like in your case can route a couple thousand $ right now, will be able to route hundreds of thousands as the price of Bitcoin increases.

So even without new channels, without new Bitcoin-denominated liquidity, the $-denominated liquidity increases over time.

This means even if we now just connect each other through lots of - at the moment - small channels and see little activity and routing going on, the nodes' importance and abilities will rise without even touching them simply by the Bitcoin price rising.

That's why I think especially the 'idealist node operators' who started their operation early, will stay relevant and will be able to compete with future 'bank nodes' or 'merchant nodes'.

Agree.  Also when you work in MPP (assuming they really start to work) and #zerobasefees there are arguments for opening 5 2MM channels rather than 1 10MM.  More versatile, and less chance to be log jammed in one or the other direction.  I have channels are are in the double digit millions, and i think my current channel minimum to CONNECT to me is 1MM?  But I have been wondering if I should drop it to less...
n0nce
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 882
Merit: 5814


not your keys, not your coins!


View Profile WWW
September 10, 2021, 10:03:50 PM
Merited by Rath_ (1)
 #55

Agree.  Also when you work in MPP (assuming they really start to work) and #zerobasefees there are arguments for opening 5 2MM channels rather than 1 10MM.  More versatile, and less chance to be log jammed in one or the other direction.  I have channels are are in the double digit millions, and i think my current channel minimum to CONNECT to me is 1MM?  But I have been wondering if I should drop it to less...
In my experience, the channels below 1M see little routing activity, so I would stick to +1M for now, but having some small inbound channels can't hurt, since you have 'nothing to lose' and they'll start getting more useful as Bitcon price rises.

█▀▀▀











█▄▄▄
▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀
e
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
█████████████
████████████▄███
██▐███████▄█████▀
█████████▄████▀
███▐████▄███▀
████▐██████▀
█████▀█████
███████████▄
████████████▄
██▄█████▀█████▄
▄█████████▀█████▀
███████████▀██▀
████▀█████████
▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀
c.h.
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
▀▀▀█











▄▄▄█
▄██████▄▄▄
█████████████▄▄
███████████████
███████████████
███████████████
███████████████
███░░█████████
███▌▐█████████
█████████████
███████████▀
██████████▀
████████▀
▀██▀▀
fillippone (OP)
Legendary
*
Online Online

Activity: 2142
Merit: 15403


Fully fledged Merit Cycler - Golden Feather 22-23


View Profile WWW
September 11, 2021, 10:43:24 AM
 #56

Some contrarian view on Lightning network by Shinobi:

WHY THE BITCOIN LIGHTNING NETWORK DOESN’T WORK (YET)

Quote

Although the technology is promising, this article hopes to address the flaws that are present.


I think it’s important to recognise, and eventually debunk, criticism of the network.
I found that a balanced and unbiased read.

.
.HUGE.
▄██████████▄▄
▄█████████████████▄
▄█████████████████████▄
▄███████████████████████▄
▄█████████████████████████▄
███████▌██▌▐██▐██▐████▄███
████▐██▐████▌██▌██▌██▌██
█████▀███▀███▀▐██▐██▐█████

▀█████████████████████████▀

▀███████████████████████▀

▀█████████████████████▀

▀█████████████████▀

▀██████████▀▀
█▀▀▀▀











█▄▄▄▄
▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀
.
CASINSPORTSBOOK
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
▀▀▀▀█











▄▄▄▄█
Rath_
aka BitCryptex
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1876
Merit: 3131



View Profile
September 11, 2021, 09:12:05 PM
 #57

I have channels are are in the double digit millions, and i think my current channel minimum to CONNECT to me is 1MM

Would you mind sharing your node's id either here or via a private message? I am still willing to open channels to other bitcointalk members; preferably dual-funded ones if one is running c-lightning. Here's my node for reference.

Note that this channel between me and @ndalliard is active. 1ml.com lists it as closed for some reason.
cAPSLOCK
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 3738
Merit: 5127


Whimsical Pants


View Profile
September 11, 2021, 09:30:06 PM
Last edit: September 11, 2021, 09:40:32 PM by cAPSLOCK
 #58

I have channels are are in the double digit millions, and i think my current channel minimum to CONNECT to me is 1MM

Would you mind sharing your node's id either here or via a private message? I am still willing to open channels to other bitcointalk members; preferably dual-funded ones if one is running c-lightning. Here's my node for reference.

Note that this channel between me and @ndalliard is active. 1ml.com lists it as closed for some reason.


I used to think it could be an opsec risk... but any motivated person could figure me out at this point. Wink  Plus I ran this node on clearnet early on, not realizing that switching to TOR was meaningless after you do.  Anyway, this is me:

https://1ml.com/node/02a0bcc2b99673587d4a92028a2b2ce709b72c904962e2f783fd480c2c41e3dc7d

I run LND. 0.12.1 (and Bitcoin 0.21.1 as soon as I reboot)  And I am not sure if they have implemented dual funded channels yet?  I think I am one version behind the current release (13?).

I would be glad to open a channel to you though...  We could also try to balance the channel after opening it.  But I have to admit, I do not spend much time (or sats) balancing my channels.  Most of them are swept back and forth quite a bit (especially my Bitfinex channels).  Though I do notice some of my channel parters go to the trouble of keeping them balanced, and occasionally in those channels, to honor the partner I will try to shuffle sats around...
Rath_
aka BitCryptex
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1876
Merit: 3131



View Profile
September 11, 2021, 09:56:25 PM
 #59

I run LND. 0.12.1 (and Bitcoin 0.21.1 as soon as I reboot)  And I am not sure if they have implemented dual funded channels yet?

Dual-funded channels are available only in c-lightning for the time being. They are also an experimental feature so they have to be enabled manually. Although, I managed to open two dual-funded channels without any problems.

I would be glad to open a channel to you though...  We could also try to balance the channel after opening it.

Sounds good. I guess it would be fairly easy for us balance our channel through a circular payment. Alternatively, you could push some satoshi to my side and then I could refund you on-chain but that would be more expensive.
cAPSLOCK
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 3738
Merit: 5127


Whimsical Pants


View Profile
September 11, 2021, 10:18:40 PM
 #60

We could see if ndalliard is up for making a little triangle...


         ndalliard
            /\
          /    \
        /        \
 Rath --------cAPS

If we set to zero fees we effectively add ALL of each other's peer channels with a zero cost single hop to them.   
Pages: « 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 »
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!