[CHESS] World Championship 2021: Carlsen Vs. Nepomniachtchi

[LUCKMCFLY]

for those interested on new topics about chess on the gambling area of the forum there's a new topic with vibrant discussion here:
Chess online?

good to see more people talking about chess around here

just posted it here because we talked about opening more topics on this thread a couple weeks ago

Yes, in fact the thread is very good, although for now I have seen many examples of what Artificial Intelligence is applied to games, but regarding this thread, I never thought that Richard would replace Nepo and Giri, I don't know as normally a person is able to rise in rank or ranking to be able to do geniuses.

I know that in order to prepare a person for any tournament they have to spend many hours training, watching each move and practicing which is the best, even doing many blitzes, time in chess is essential, I think that for these masters it should be something else.

[l3pox]

idk, I believe in natural skill (talent) but also that hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard
so it should be possible to raise to a high level but will probably take years of practice

the other topic is now closed for some reason....

[Boristhecat]

idk, I believe in natural skill (talent) but also that hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard
so it should be possible to raise to a high level but will probably take years of practice

the other topic is now closed for some reason....

Yes, I also noticed that that topic was quite active, but now closed.
Still thinking about the idea of opening a new thread, with a poll option.
At the moment, I would be interested to know what the chess community thinks about Karjakin's ban. Personally, I am very impressed with the opinion of So who said that Karjakin just went crazy.

[l3pox]

didn't even know about Karakajin's situation so went to google it

Russia’s Sergey Karjakin banned from chess for supporting invasion of Ukraine

idk, even though I disagree with him I don't like the cancellation culture, I don't think a GM should be banned from playing because he supports the war and the president of his country, his ideology won't affect the way he plays and has no relation to chess so what is the point?

everything turned into politics lately.
Us vs them taken to the extreme.

[qwertyup23]

didn't even know about Karakajin's situation so went to google it

Russia’s Sergey Karjakin banned from chess for supporting invasion of Ukraine

idk, even though I disagree with him I don't like the cancellation culture, I don't think a GM should be banned from playing because he supports the war and the president of his country, his ideology won't affect the way he plays and has no relation to chess so what is the point?

everything turned into politics lately.
Us vs them taken to the extreme.

Along with any other sport, there are certain ethical standards that a player must follow. While people might have conflicting views regarding a certain topic, they must say so in a way that will not be disrespectful to anyone.

The problem with Karjakin is that he made statements that are very disrespectful in this bloody and unnecessary war, in which judgement was served upon him. Russia has been using sport as a form of propaganda, stating that the war was necessary.

Just to give you a concrete example, Sergei Shipov also made statements regarding the war. But compared to Karjakin, Shipov's statements were less provocative and different in character. As a caliber of a player Karjakin is, he must uphold himself with high status and responsibility as always.

[Boristhecat]

didn't even know about Karakajin's situation so went to google it

Russia’s Sergey Karjakin banned from chess for supporting invasion of Ukraine

idk, even though I disagree with him I don't like the cancellation culture, I don't think a GM should be banned from playing because he supports the war and the president of his country, his ideology won't affect the way he plays and has no relation to chess so what is the point?

everything turned into politics lately.
Us vs them taken to the extreme.

The point is that the war is going on right now. Everyone participates in it in one way or another - this is a global world, and it's hard not to see a direct participant in the war in Karyakin - he is a citizen of Russia and supports the war. If you took a side and participate in the war, then be prepared for the fact that certain measures will be taken against you. I think this is fair and logical.

[KTChampions]

didn't even know about Karakajin's situation so went to google it

Russia’s Sergey Karjakin banned from chess for supporting invasion of Ukraine

idk, even though I disagree with him I don't like the cancellation culture, I don't think a GM should be banned from playing because he supports the war and the president of his country, his ideology won't affect the way he plays and has no relation to chess so what is the point?

everything turned into politics lately.
Us vs them taken to the extreme.

I would say that this particular case is not politics, but the normal behavior of people. What do you know about Karjakin as a racing driver or snooker player? I think nothing. Karjakin is a representative of the chess community. He has an opinion - no one takes away his opinion from him, but since he represents the entire chess community, this community does not want to be associated with him and therefore does not want to "play" with him while he makes statements that cast a shadow on the entire community.
I think if you have a good opponent in your neighborhood to play chess or whatever, but one day you find out that he is a pedophile, then most likely you will stop playing with him, right? Although it seems like his sexual deviations have nothing to do with chess and "these are different issues."

[acroman08]

-snip

just like what qwertyup23 has said "just like any other sports, there is an ethical standard a player must follow" the organization deemed his support of the war with Ukraine as unethical. I understand their views and agree with them. I would have disagreed with them if they banned Karjakin just for being Russian.

[l3pox]

<...>

I would say that this particular case is not politics, but the normal behavior of people. What do you know about Karjakin as a racing driver or snooker player? I think nothing. Karjakin is a representative of the chess community. He has an opinion - no one takes away his opinion from him, but since he represents the entire chess community, this community does not want to be associated with him and therefore does not want to "play" with him while he makes statements that cast a shadow on the entire community.
I think if you have a good opponent in your neighborhood to play chess or whatever, but one day you find out that he is a pedophile, then most likely you will stop playing with him, right? Although it seems like his sexual deviations have nothing to do with chess and "these are different issues."

as much as I hate wars and think they're stupid and a waste/delay for human civilization, I don't think that we can compare individuals who support the war to pedophiles

former have an opinion about something
latter have a serious conduct deviation and are criminals/ill

but still, take my opinion about Karjakin with a grain of salt since I didn't follow the full situation and just checked the article quite fast...

[Theones]

-snip

just like what qwertyup23 has said "just like any other sports, there is an ethical standard a player must follow" the organization deemed his support of the war with Ukraine as unethical. I understand their views and agree with them. I would have disagreed with them if they banned Karjakin just for being Russian.

Seems like an old thread. Saw chess but seem like we are discussing war here.
But the way - what are you guys discussing? Is there any chess matches going on at the moment or it is just a forum to discuss something?

[l3pox]

-snip

just like what qwertyup23 has said "just like any other sports, there is an ethical standard a player must follow" the organization deemed his support of the war with Ukraine as unethical. I understand their views and agree with them. I would have disagreed with them if they banned Karjakin just for being Russian.

Seems like an old thread. Saw chess but seem like we are discussing war here.
But the way - what are you guys discussing? Is there any chess matches going on at the moment or it is just a forum to discuss something?

lol

well, this is the only Chess thread left on the forum as far as I know
we just started talking a bit about the war because of the situation with Karjakin being banned

[South Park]

-snip

just like what qwertyup23 has said "just like any other sports, there is an ethical standard a player must follow" the organization deemed his support of the war with Ukraine as unethical. I understand their views and agree with them. I would have disagreed with them if they banned Karjakin just for being Russian.

Personally I am not a fan of cancel culture but since it is a thing then people have to be careful about what they publish on social media, however the ban will only last for 6 months and Karjakin can even appeal so there is a chance the ban could become even shorter than what it is now, so he should use this time just to stay way from social media, train himself and do what he does best, which is to play chess.

[l3pox]

-snip

just like what qwertyup23 has said "just like any other sports, there is an ethical standard a player must follow" the organization deemed his support of the war with Ukraine as unethical. I understand their views and agree with them. I would have disagreed with them if they banned Karjakin just for being Russian.

Personally I am not a fan of cancel culture but since it is a thing then people have to be careful about what they publish on social media, however the ban will only last for 6 months and Karjakin can even appeal so there is a chance the ban could become even shorter than what it is now, so he should use this time just to stay way from social media, train himself and do what he does best, which is to play chess.

same opinion here,
was just thinking about all the relations between chess and war, and the history of the game in the past... we can't even imagine how many battles were played...

[Theones]

-snip

just like what qwertyup23 has said "just like any other sports, there is an ethical standard a player must follow" the organization deemed his support of the war with Ukraine as unethical. I understand their views and agree with them. I would have disagreed with them if they banned Karjakin just for being Russian.

Seems like an old thread. Saw chess but seem like we are discussing war here.
But the way - what are you guys discussing? Is there any chess matches going on at the moment or it is just a forum to discuss something?

lol

well, this is the only Chess thread left on the forum as far as I know
we just started talking a bit about the war because of the situation with Karjakin being banned

Oh! Affects of war every where. Russian in trouble.
I just searched bout him- he is young and is a smart player. What will be his future now if the ban stays? I think the war has damaged Russia equally they have damaged Ukraine.

[wildan88]

Russia is known for having a lot of strong chess players. These players play many tournaments abroad and possibly also competition in these countries to fund their income that way. I wonder how that goes, would tournament organizations still ask Russian players to play? the advantage of chess is that you can also organize games online, so you don't have to be physically present. If the world champion had come from Russia, the World Chess Federation would have had a dilemma.

[Theones]

Russia is known for having a lot of strong chess players. These players play many tournaments abroad and possibly also competition in these countries to fund their income that way. I wonder how that goes, would tournament organizations still ask Russian players to play? the advantage of chess is that you can also organize games online, so you don't have to be physically present. If the world champion had come from Russia, the World Chess Federation would have had a dilemma.

Russian have done an extra ordinary performance in every field. But I am not sure any sanction has resulted in putting Russia in the condition to stop war.
Everyday we see more missile attacks on the Ukraine.
Also I tied playing chess today in an online mobile app- I realized I forgot some of the rules.

[KTChampions]

I would say that this particular case is not politics, but the normal behavior of people. What do you know about Karjakin as a racing driver or snooker player? I think nothing. Karjakin is a representative of the chess community. He has an opinion - no one takes away his opinion from him, but since he represents the entire chess community, this community does not want to be associated with him and therefore does not want to "play" with him while he makes statements that cast a shadow on the entire community.
I think if you have a good opponent in your neighborhood to play chess or whatever, but one day you find out that he is a pedophile, then most likely you will stop playing with him, right? Although it seems like his sexual deviations have nothing to do with chess and "these are different issues."

as much as I hate wars and think they're stupid and a waste/delay for human civilization, I don't think that we can compare individuals who support the war to pedophiles

former have an opinion about something
latter have a serious conduct deviation and are criminals/ill

but still, take my opinion about Karjakin with a grain of salt since I didn't follow the full situation and just checked the article quite fast...

Okay, let's take out the pedophiles and replace them with war criminals and those who support them. Will you play with a neighbor who is a good chess player if he is a war criminal? Or with the same neighbor who is not a war criminal but who openly supports war crimes (or denies their actual existence when it is clear to everyone that they are taking place)?

[l3pox]

I would say that this particular case is not politics, but the normal behavior of people. What do you know about Karjakin as a racing driver or snooker player? I think nothing. Karjakin is a representative of the chess community. He has an opinion - no one takes away his opinion from him, but since he represents the entire chess community, this community does not want to be associated with him and therefore does not want to "play" with him while he makes statements that cast a shadow on the entire community.
I think if you have a good opponent in your neighborhood to play chess or whatever, but one day you find out that he is a pedophile, then most likely you will stop playing with him, right? Although it seems like his sexual deviations have nothing to do with chess and "these are different issues."

as much as I hate wars and think they're stupid and a waste/delay for human civilization, I don't think that we can compare individuals who support the war to pedophiles

former have an opinion about something
latter have a serious conduct deviation and are criminals/ill

but still, take my opinion about Karjakin with a grain of salt since I didn't follow the full situation and just checked the article quite fast...

Okay, let's take out the pedophiles and replace them with war criminals and those who support them. Will you play with a neighbor who is a good chess player if he is a war criminal? Or with the same neighbor who is not a war criminal but who openly supports war crimes (or denies their actual existence when it is clear to everyone that they are taking place)?

I just don't like cancelation culture and think people end up mixing up things that doesn't make sense at all.

If people commit crimes they should be punished/go to jail/whatever, this is common ground.

Being a pedophile is disgusting and a crime (when they act,
pedophilia, rape and any kind of sexual violence are crimes and horrible things but we can't put people in jail for crimes of thought like only thinking of something, as disgusting as their thoughts can be)

that said, I think people in prison for commiting crimes can still be brilliant on their skills like chess, for example.
so all I said is that imo makes no sense to forbid a player who supports war (or supports something else that I'm against) to play chess, since their opinions on wars, politics or religion won't affect their skill.

of course it's easier to frame people who disagree with us as horrible people, but I think there's nuance, there's a gradient of things to consider on people's personalities
to make the discourse more extreme: remove nuance.

It'll probably get worse from here in terms of public opinion, mass media manipulation and xenophobia...

here's a tl;dr:
War is horrible and stupid
there's people who support it
I don't support them
but I think horrible and stupid people should be allowed to play chess (and get good at it)
hopefully learning and playing chess will even help to make them less horrible and stupid

[LUCKMCFLY]

Russia is known for having a lot of strong chess players. These players play many tournaments abroad and possibly also competition in these countries to fund their income that way. I wonder how that goes, would tournament organizations still ask Russian players to play? the advantage of chess is that you can also organize games online, so you don't have to be physically present. If the world champion had come from Russia, the World Chess Federation would have had a dilemma.

Well, the Russians have many very good players, in fact Kasparov is one of the best in the world, for me he has always been a benchmark, and it is not for nothing, but seeing the IQ of most Russians is very high, so that It is reflected in the majority of Chess players, for now I think that due to the problems that Russia has, the Chess Federation must also be affected.

Normally, any person from anywhere in the world, whether or not they are in Russia, they can be good in the same way, I think that everything goes into the training that I give them, it is a matter of dedication.

[Boristhecat]

War is horrible and stupid
there's people who support it
I don't support them
but I think horrible and stupid people should be allowed to play chess (and get good at it)
hopefully learning and playing chess will even help to make them less horrible and stupid

But does anyone forbid them to play chess? The bottom line is that the disagreements with these people (who support the war) have reached such proportions that those who do not support the war simply do not want to play with them. Isn't this a basic human right - freedom of association? There is a community of people who love chess and don't like war. They don't want to play chess with those who support the war. Nobody forbids war lovers to play chess - they can do it with anyone (who agrees to it).