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[cryptofrka]

Check out this round then between me and cryptofrka. None of my 10 answers, provided in time, was correct.

This situation is perfectly clear. You submitted on time and got all answers wrong. If I had 7 correct, it would have been 7-0. I got 3 correct, so it's 3-0.

____________________________________________

There's a lot of stuff that has been said, some of it incorrect, but I really don't want to play ping-pong with you around this.
Also - please don't pinpoint one of us out. What Trofo writes I concur with, what I write he concurs with.
We never run any campaign or competition in a way that you described how Trofo does it and I really don't appreciate that kind of talk. It is untrue and childish.

Basically, it all comes down to this:

Your judgment to make the round a 3-0 against LFC_Bitcoin wasn't rule-based. It was your subjective opinion driven by personal incentive.

And it is correct.
I purposely crossed out the idiotic part of it. If you really think that there's a personal incentive behind awarding someone a bigger goal difference, then you live in a world that I'm unable to comprehend.

Now let's discuss the important part - why it isn't rule based and is subjective.

Considering that we had 16 new members joining, from which a lot is from Clubhouse and don't really read Bitcointalk, we decided we don't want to introduce a harsh penalty in which you instantly lose 3-0 if you're late this season. We'll introduce it next season and we have already said that multiple times.
Because of that we find ourselves in difficult situations every time somebody submits late.
In some rounds you lose 5 points if you're a second late and in some just a point, some rounds have 4 H2H questions and some have 1. Sometimes people submit on Fridays and are eligible only for 1 question.
We need to balance goal difference in a way that is fair to all participants and sometimes it means that you will get fucked over. This is a decision we won't be apologizing for, it's just something that has to be done this season because it's the lesser of 2 evils.
It is not intentional, it is not you we're targeting, it's because we can't make a fair rule at this point that would be beneficial for the competition. It's either 3-0 which would happen too often or balancing how to grade big results when somebody is late.

I already told you - 9 out of 10 LFC_Bitcoin's answers were invalid at the time of his submission. If you think you should have won 6-0, you are being selfish and are putting yourself ahead of the competition.
Paradoxically, you're accusing us of having an agenda whereas you're the one that's forcing something with no logic behind it whatsoever.

Bottom line - you see some sort of agendas against you that simply don't exist. If you want to continue with it feel free to do so, also feel free to yell from your balcony what a shitty job Cro2 is doing if you'll feel better.

We run a fair competition - to the best of our abilities. Getting slammed for f&%king you over goal difference? For fuck sakes, man.

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[Trofo]

I am not speaking on codes. Trofo already made clear that what he wants to happen, will happen. And what he doesn't want to happen, won't happen.

I only ask that the rules be applied to everyone equally.

This first sentence really bothers me since I am quite sure I never said or acted in that way. Unless maybe in some joke but I am trying to be extra careful when writing that stuff because there is always someone who doesn't get it. This is gambling section and I treat it like a pub place, meaning safe place for me and I am not choosing my words carefully. I leave that for situations when I have to speak with my wife or mother    

We are really having so much problems to enforce the rules fairly for all concerned that it is starting to get real bothersome. Do you think we enjoy giving penalty points for late submission or plain nonsense answers? That is just extra work which we would rather skip. Is it that difficult to spend a few seconds to at least google the teams competing in some question? Or that we enjoy sending reminders to people that don't submit on time? Hell it is the same deadline every week from the start of it.

This league is intended for true sports fanatics and it demands some dedication from all participants. I am quite sure we will get more strict with time. Probably baby wheels off from next season. No reminders and direct 3:0 without fight for late submitters. But then we get to the problem of regularity if somebody is late often so that probably means we have to start to kick out people which we did not want to do.

[LTU_btc]

So, I guess I already eliminated from cup. I'm down 0:3, 2 questions remaining and only one of it is different from my opponent. Well, shity seasons continues...

You are getting them for sure, just waiting for later stages of some big competition like CL or maybe next EURO or WC.

if I knew you are open to it, I would put Kings league as proposal

not sure if you heard for that one, it is a seven/seven football, established by Pique, and pretty popular in Spain

I don't mind having futsal questions, but there isn't many games that would be really big. As said, maybe final 4 of CL or EURO/World Cup. I watch local league games sometimes, it's quite interesting. What is downside that lot of time ball isn't in play, though, clock is stopped then, not like in big football.
I heard about Kings league, it have quite big interest in Spain, but I don't look very seriously in such league, it's more entertainment than sports. Something similar like boxing or MMA between Youtubers.

[Igebotz]

<Read> shocking....
Not long ago I was asked via PM what I think about Cro2 and whether you are doing a good job. I said yes, doing a very good job and trying to be as fair and precise as possible. No reasons to complain and certainly recommend them as project managers. Well, I will leave it at this.

This has escalated so quickly - if I understand you correctly, you're accusing the Cro2 team of changing your answers in the spreadsheet, and how is that even helpful to anyone? This isn't something that can be manipulated behind the scenes; it's a real-life sport, and no one knows what the outcome will be.

For goodness sake, this type of discussion is not helpful for the competition. The Cro2 team are doing an excellent job, and the rules are being enforced on a level playing field for all. These individuals aren't receiving the credit they deserve for being part of a team that spends hours every week cracking and writing questions for us while also updating a spreadsheet after every fucking game. They did not deserve that.

[Harkorede]

<Read> shocking....
Not long ago I was asked via PM what I think about Cro2 and whether you are doing a good job. I said yes, doing a very good job and trying to be as fair and precise as possible. No reasons to complain and certainly recommend them as project managers. Well, I will leave it at this.

This has escalated so quickly - if I understand you correctly, you're accusing the Cro2 team of changing your answers in the spreadsheet, and how is that even helpful to anyone? This isn't something that can be manipulated behind the scenes; it's a real-life sport, and no one knows what the outcome will be.

Nah! He went about it wrong and his interpretation of the rules isn't correct either, but you also completely misinterpreted him, he was talking about goal difference, here In a scenario where his opponent submitted very late and by then about 9 of his opponents questions were invalid, so he was awarded a 3-0 win, but I guess the questions he got correctly were much more than, so he wanted the opponent only questions that counted should be valid against his owns answers, which would have earned him a 7-1 or 6-0 differential, If that helps you understand better.


@mv1986 I get your drift and you do have a point from an angle, but since we've never had an opposing scenario, we just would never know what the decision would have been, but what would you have clamored for if all the answers you submitted were wrong and the said opponent only valid question was correct, would you have agreed he should be awarded the win (@cryptofrka and @Trofo, what would have been the decision in that case, because I don't think we've been there before, and it's just a matter of time, if we keep having late submissions before we have one), and this has actually been discussed a couple of times already, there isn't a fair measure that favors everyone, I lost or drew a match a few rounds ago, when I could say the asked question should have been void and I would have been right but others too would have a point as to why the question should remain valid, but to be honest, any decision made about cases like this as it negatively affects one person, it positively affects the other.

If they have to count all your correct answers result because an opponent who submitted late have one valid question, and give you the entire points difference, then they would always need wait in subsequent scenarios, like when you had all questions wrong and let's say the opponent submitted late and none of his answers were valid, then such situation should be declared a draw ?

My final opinion on the situation is that, there's no common ground that would favor every participant, hence the need why both Trofo and Cryptofrka always had to make decision on certain instances, but these calls are never easy one to call, and I don't remember them calling one to directly favor either of them, so I believe it is very unfair to say those words questioning their integrity about a decision, they had to skip participating in the first round, solely because of opinions such as this.

To just make this whole situation of going back and forth over with, I would suggest an immediate implementation of late entries being null and void all together and not just a couple of questions, especially for division 1 and 2 players, since those divisions are not filled with first time participants.

[slackovic]

Wow, what a drama with this competition. Personally I can't wait for the next season to start so that everyone who submits late will automatically lose that round 0-3. It will be easier for the Cro2 duo to do their job and it will hopefully make participants submit their answers on time. I still don't get it why is it so hard to submit answers on time when we get questions on Sunday afternoon and the deadline is on Satueday afternoon. That's 48 hour window and everyone in any timezone should have no problem to take 10 minutes of their time to submit the answers. I know that every man takes a shit (sorry for the language) for at least 10 minutes and that's enough time to take your mobile and submit the answers. You can even do it while working

[Igebotz]

<Read> shocking....
Not long ago I was asked via PM what I think about Cro2 and whether you are doing a good job. I said yes, doing a very good job and trying to be as fair and precise as possible. No reasons to complain and certainly recommend them as project managers. Well, I will leave it at this.

This has escalated so quickly - if I understand you correctly, you're accusing the Cro2 team of changing your answers in the spreadsheet, and how is that even helpful to anyone? This isn't something that can be manipulated behind the scenes; it's a real-life sport, and no one knows what the outcome will be.

Nah! He went about it wrong and his interpretation of the rules isn't correct either, but you also completely misinterpreted him, he was talking about goal difference, here In a scenario where his opponent submitted very late and by then about 9 of his opponents questions were invalid, so he was awarded a 3-0 win, but I guess the questions he got correctly were much more than, so he wanted the opponent only questions that counted should be valid against his owns answers, which would have earned him a 7-1 or 6-0 differential, If that helps you understand better.

oh shit now i get the full gist! thanks. sorry mv1986 for misunderstanding your point.....

The 3-0 goal is a general rule in FIFA AND PES; if you are leading your opponent by, say, 20-0 and he collects 5 red cards, the game automatically ends and you are only awarded a 3-0 win rather than a 20-0 win. In real life, if a team decides not to play, the opponent is given a 3-0 lead in the match. I believe the same rules apply here as well.

@mv1986
Your opponent submitting late is the same thing as walkover in football terms. In the real sense your opponent didn't turn up and you cant score 7-nil in an empty GOAL-post. Lol

[Trofo]

Come on guys let's get back to topic. Thanks for defending us but not really necessary.

We are always open to criticism, competition isn't perfect and we make mistakes so feel free to question us. Just don't think we have an agenda against individual players, all our decisions are made towards what is more fair for whole competition. Sometimes an individual will profit from that and sometimes he will not, simple as that. Try to look at it as if you did not have a stake in a round and I belive all our decision are logical when viewed from such point.

And to think this would be an easy week for me since I am out of the cup 

[Igebotz]

Come on guys let's get back to topic. Thanks for defending us but not really necessary.

Lol. I was not defending you, I was just starting obvious facts to favour both side. 

This is the most boring round for me, less question more gap in-between games. The two last game is taking forever.

[cryptofrka]

@mv1986 I get your drift and you do have a point from an angle, but since we've never had an opposing scenario, we just would never know what the decision would have been, but what would you have clamored for if all the answers you submitted were wrong and the said opponent only valid question was correct, would you have agreed he should be awarded the win (@cryptofrka and @Trofo, what would have been the decision in that case, because I don't think we've been there before, and it's just a matter of time, if we keep having late submissions before we have one), and this has actually been discussed a couple of times already, there isn't a fair measure that favors everyone, I lost or drew a match a few rounds ago, when I could say the asked question should have been void and I would have been right but others too would have a point as to why the question should remain valid, but to be honest, any decision made about cases like this as it negatively affects one person, it positively affects the other.

If you submit all on time and everything is incorrect and your opponent submits only 1 answer and it is correct, it would mean that he'd win 1-0, and get a negative point.
Not something we want to see ever happen and the chances are we won't. It will be impossible from next season anyway.

To just make this whole situation of going back and forth over with, I would suggest an immediate implementation of late entries being null and void all together and not just a couple of questions, especially for division 1 and 2 players, since those divisions are not filled with first time participants.

Will be from next season - if we did it now some players could make an argument that it's not fair that we switched it mid-season, and we agree with that.
All major rule changes will be seasonal.

__________________________

We are sorry that some things aren't set in stone, we knew the risks when we implemented lenient rules for this season.

Example - we're really close to losing DireWolfM14 from the competition. One more missed round and he's out, and again we have a shitty situation on our hands.
In that case, we can void all results or write it all as 3-0. If we void all, Rikafip and bullrun2020bro lose 1 negative point for late submission, if we write it as 3-0 across the league, they keep the negative point. Either way we go, there will be unhappy people again.
It's a really difficult terrain to navigate without stepping on some toes, we eventually have to step on some to avoid the rules having 7 pages. Even then, we'd still forget to put some things in there.

Let's close this now, we really remain open for suggestions. Just please do understand that we try to make it as fair and fun as possible for everybody.

[darxiaomi]

Ohh man, i dont come to read closely the thread for one day and we have so much drama.

Well i hope everything its fine and we can continue with our competition.

Yes Igebotz you have the win in your hands but the games seems far of us.

[Igebotz]

Yes Igebotz you have the win in your hands but the games seems far of us.

Tonight's game will decide your fate; I just need 1-2 goals to knock you out of the cup, and  bet your 2mBtc on Jackson to score two or more goals against Liverpool this weekend.

[slackovic]

It looks like I'll be kicked out of the cup early. The Feyenoord - PSV game is still goalless after 57 minutes. I'm following it on the mobile app and they just had two goals canceled. First was Feyenoord's goal and after few minutes it's PSV goal that was canceled. I'm not sure what's going on but it doesn't look good for me

[casperBGD]

It looks like I'll be kicked out of the cup early. The Feyenoord - PSV game is still goalless after 57 minutes.
~snip

it ended 0:1
PSV took Supercup, and although I missed the match, it seems that it was good to watch, according to statistics

for me, it is back into the match, since I equalized result, and looking forward to Watford and QPR tomorrow, if that was for Southampton, my took on away win would be solid, but QPR is lousiest team, hopefully they will at least keep their net good, so there will no much goals
may the best team win into our cup duel

[Harkorede]

And there we have it, gentlemen. One favourite (Italy) already smashed to smithereens by their far less fanciful opponents in the Women's WC. Happy to get that one right... anyone else fancy Japan to win this edition? Tournament favourite USA can't seem to score. Japan have been the most clinical (beating a really superstar Spain team way, way taller than them with a huge scoreline) -- I think they just need to overcome Norway (who just woke up) and I think they have a great chance.

1 point to me, Harko, watch out!

Parity restored, Damn! You survive until tomorrow, at least before I get your ass whopped for real...

And Oops there is a mistake on your final submission for the penalties questions, you didn't answer all the questions, and It would be a real shame if that had to be the deciding factor here, and I also noticed there are a lot people that made the same mistake.

It's supposed to be 8 questions, most people answered just 7 or maybe less and it's going to quite hard tricky to even grade them, I hope it doesn't have to come to that.

[Igebotz]

Parity restored, Damn! You survive until tomorrow, at least before I get your ass whopped for real...

And Oops there is a mistake on your final submission for the penalties questions, you didn't answer all the questions, and It would be a real shame if that had to be the deciding factor here, and I also noticed there are a lot people that made the same mistake.

He went with Watford and under 2.5, which I think will happen, I don't think QPR will gain a point in that game. This was by far the most difficult question in this round, and I'm glad I beat my opponent earlier. I hope both teams lose (which is impossible). I can't wait to meet either of you on my journey to success. 

buwatress you have my undying support! I don't want Harkorede to be a problem to me. Whop his ass.

@Darx see you in league. Your cup journey ends here.

[buwaytress]

Ooo Harko, nice comeback for you thanks to the general shyness of the Dutch teams on display last night. The good news is, we don't have to wait any longer for the Community Shield as we have 2-2 and the final question differently answered. Can't believe I've gone on to hoping for Watford... again!

@Ige thanks, Watford will win 1-0 ugly!

Edit: Hmm you're right I skipped a yes/no in tiebreaker. Cro2 what happens here? Heh

[Harkorede]

Ooo Harko, nice comeback for you thanks to the general shyness of the Dutch teams on display last night. The good news is, we don't have to wait any longer for the Community Shield as we have 2-2 and the final question differently answered. Can't believe I've gone on to hoping for Watford... again!

@Ige thanks, Watford will win 1-0 ugly!

Edit: Hmm you're right I skipped a yes/no in tiebreaker. Cro2 what happens here? Heh

No way that's gonna happen, I mean a 1-0 Watford win, it's going to be a barren draw, quote me on this 

On the penalties question, You actually missed one Over/Under question, if both options goes Over then it's only right that you get one point, but if a question goes over and the other goes under, it's only right that you miss both, because the problem is that there is no way they can actually which one of the Over/Under you answered and the one you omitted hopefully it won't be needed in this case, and I just get the win without stressing you into penalties 

[Igebotz]

@Ige thanks, Watford will win 1-0 ugly!

Edit: Hmm you're right I skipped a yes/no in tiebreaker. Cro2 what happens here? Heh

Don't let me down the second time- you are so difficult to fan.

I assume you've already missed one leg of your PK (Nunez miss), or would it be considered an invalid answer? I don't know that deep down in my throat. Only the FA (Cro2) can provide you with the desired answer. However, I don't see the game going into PK..

@Harko
QPR are real mess you should know that.

[cryptofrka]

Edit: Hmm you're right I skipped a yes/no in tiebreaker. Cro2 what happens here? Heh

We go one by one and skip the first one that makes sense. In this case, you already did a Beckham with your 5th penalty (over or under 3,5 bookings).

__________________________

I'm out of the Cup as well, a clean victory for MAAManda who's actually dangerous when he remembers to submit his answers
He's got all 4 correct so far so I've got nothing to complain about, I could have done a little bit better but in these quick 5-question rounds it's hard to turn things around if it starts the wrong way.