Potential Match Fixing involving Finnish teams FC Futura and Ilves-Kissat

[Coin_trader]

We have made an inquiry about the match-fixing allegations with a competent authority and an investigation was started. Funds will not be released, nor any further information shared until these investigations are completed. This is standard procedure and trumps any potential arbitration process.  Thank you for your help!

On another note about the reactions so far (and this will be probably the last statement on this forum about this):

We are very sorry to see, that reputable members of this community like efialtis and others immediately take side of some random (potentially criminal) guy over a business, that has a 10-year track record of serving all customers well and fairly. There must be a lot of scammers among the crypto bookmakers to make you react like this. 

As expected since the beginning of their approach with this which they immediately permanent ban the user account and confiscate the user funds while you mentioned yourself that other bookie graded same much except you.

I really doubt you will seek authorities for investigation since you can just be quiet and let this issue forgotten in the future. You will just keep choosing other mediator until you get someone that will agree with you.

It’s a touché that you will be the one to file an investigation on this match which you mark match fixing. 

[holydarkness]

We are very sorry to see, that reputable members of this community like efialtis and others immediately take side of some random (potentially criminal) guy over a business, that has a 10-year track record of serving all customers well and fairly. There must be a lot of scammers among the crypto bookmakers to make you react like this. 

No one "immediately" took sides with anyone. Your conduct and actions from the beginning of the thread has been unprofessional and overall terrible, at best. Your message further shows the unprofessional-ism, expecting the "random" player to be treated as a potential criminal.

And now again you are backtracking after coming yourself to seek arbitration and will opt for some random competent authority, which you may be referring to that way cause they have showed sympathy towards your actions.

You never wanted arbitration, you wanted people to support and agree with your decision, go where you will get that validation.

- Jay -

I'm... regretting their decision as well. The forum [as always] are more than ready to listen from neutral ground. There are many users who are capable of doing that. Simply moving this thread to scam accusations board will invites those users' attention. Instead, they choose to "clear this up" by having an investigator [unilaterally chosen, with unknown reputation, if I may add] to look for evidence of match-fixing.

Speaking for myself, I have several questions and opinions that [I'd like to think] can add momentum to that pendulum, which is one of the reason I asked newfish1 to start "defending" himself by describing his betting strategy, one that he claimed will help him with this case.

[AHOYBRAUSE]

We are very sorry to see, that reputable members of this community like efialtis and others immediately take side of some random (potentially criminal) guy over a business, that has a 10-year track record of serving all customers well and fairly. There must be a lot of scammers among the crypto bookmakers to make you react like this. 

No one "immediately" took sides with anyone. Your conduct and actions from the beginning of the thread has been unprofessional and overall terrible, at best. Your message further shows the unprofessional-ism, expecting the "random" player to be treated as a potential criminal.

And now again you are backtracking after coming yourself to seek arbitration and will opt for some random competent authority, which you may be referring to that way cause they have showed sympathy towards your actions.

You never wanted arbitration, you wanted people to support and agree with your decision, go where you will get that validation.

- Jay -

My thought exactly as well. They way the are acting here is scary and should be a warning to every player considering to play at this site.
Nobody took a site at the beginning but these actions by OP made it easy to side with the player over this.

This thread can also be a good reference for every site such as trustpilot and others since it reflects the mindset of fairlay in the best ( or in the this case the worst ) possible manner.

[Fixelifix]

FC Kiffen vs. FC Futura   2.860   FC Kiffen -4.5   100.00   05/12/2024 13:27   186.00   05/12/2024 13:55
FC Kiffen vs. FC Futura   2.840   FC Kiffen -4.5   100.00   05/12/2024 13:27   184.00   05/12/2024 13:55
FC Kiffen vs. FC Futura   2.580   FC Kiffen -4.25   100.00   05/12/2024 13:26   158.00   05/12/2024 13:55
FC Kiffen vs. FC Futura   2.860   FC Kiffen -4.5   100.00   05/12/2024 13:26   186.00   05/12/2024 13:55
FC Kiffen vs. FC Futura   2.700   FC Kiffen -4.25   130.00   05/12/2024 13:25   221.00   05/12/2024 13:55
FC Kiffen vs. FC Futura   2.790   FC Kiffen -4.25   139.00   05/12/2024 13:22   248.81   05/12/2024 13:55

0.669 btc bet, thats $44k wager on a football match with amateurs playing. Why allow such high amounts Fairlay? Pretty clear your site is being used by matchfixers.

[Rating Place]

I go back to the beginning with Fairlay to the founder of Fairlay who is also the creator of Gnosis. Fairlay contacted me when this case happened and I tried to hook them up with an arbitration site but the site was unable to take the case. I told Fairlay that holydarkness would be the go to person if he wanted binding arbitration here.

Fairlay wanted a chance to present all evidence to an arbitrator, not everything in public. Unfortunately this case is being tried publicly which Fairlay never asked for. There are times when all information shouldn’t be divulged publicly. Fairlay must prove that the match was fixed but the accusations against them are false. More time is needed to let this all play out. I’m not saying that the match was fixed, but Fairlay has no ill intentions and money isn’t a problem.

[Haunebu]

Fairlay wanted a chance to present all evidence to an arbitrator, not everything in public. Unfortunately this case is being tried publicly which Fairlay never asked for. There are times when all information shouldn’t be divulged. Fairlay must prove that the match was fixed but the accusations against them are false. More time is needed to let this all play out. I’m not saying that the match was fixed, but Fairlay has no ill intentions and money isn’t a problem.

At this point, it doesn't really matter whether they have I'll intentions or not to be frank because they messed their own reputation up by going back and forth on their own words for various reasons.

I felt holydarkness would be a great arbitrator too, but they kept changing their words on a whim due to which the pendulum swung in favor of the punter.

[Rating Place]

Fairlay wanted a chance to present all evidence to an arbitrator, not everything in public. Unfortunately this case is being tried publicly which Fairlay never asked for. There are times when all information shouldn’t be divulged. Fairlay must prove that the match was fixed but the accusations against them are false. More time is needed to let this all play out. I’m not saying that the match was fixed, but Fairlay has no ill intentions and money isn’t a problem.

At this point, it doesn't really matter whether they have I'll intentions or not to be frank because they messed their own reputation up by going back and forth on their own words for various reasons.

I felt holydarkness would be a great arbitrator too, but they kept changing their words on a whim due to which the pendulum swung in favor of the punter.

From reading what’s on the board, I would take the player’s side but there’s obviously more to the story. Fairlay was going to agree to binding arbitration and it wasn’t from hand picked people. That says more than anything else. Many could have arbitrated this privately instead of crucifying publicly without all the facts.

All exchanges such as Betfair have rules where they can withhold money from suspected fixing until an investigation.

[un_rank]

This thread can also be a good reference for every site such as trustpilot and others since it reflects the mindset of fairlay in the best ( or in the this case the worst ) possible manner.

I would not be surprised if Fairlaysuppot returns in a month or so and say a competent authority has rules it to be a fixed match and they have permanently seized the funds while also keeping all the lost wagers on the match too.

That says more than anything else. Many could have arbitrated this privately instead of crucifying publicly without all the facts.

Important point is they backtracked on the arbitration process. Earlier the community pointed out to them that you need 3-5 arbitrators for it to work properly, they kept insisting on one and then pulled out entirely. I sincerely hope the "facts" are not some instagram posts.

- Jay -

[slaman29]

I forgot about this thread, can't believe I spent my entire shift break reading it, but can't believe even more of the developments.

It is funny that firstly, they agreed on 2 people that THEY reached out to first, so obviously they went to people they thought they would get support from.

None of the people suggested, who would be more objective (because chosen neither by them or OP) was ever considered.

Funnier? The people they chose, they decided not to go with.

I don't know why crypto sportsbook doesn't want to do everything out transparently. When OP is the one with privacy at stake, and ready to do it transparently. Now private investigation.

I would not be surprised if Fairlaysuppot returns in a month or so and say a competent authority has rules it to be a fixed match and they have permanently seized the funds while also keeping all the lost wagers on the match too.

Someone should take snapshot or info of that market. All the money related to the match should be seized. Including the pool money.

[Rating Place]

For those that understand exchanges saying that Fairlay is unsafe is the same as saying Betfair is unsafe. Fairlay had 2 problems in 10 years. Fairlay doesn’t ban, they don’t limit and they rarely have a problem. Let the case play out. The red at this point is insane.

Go look at the first page of scam accusations. BetCrypto is stealing 26,000 Euros, Rollbit is stealing $64k and and BC.game is stealing 12k USDT yet Fairlay is getting red for this case.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=83.0

[AHOYBRAUSE]

For those that understand exchanges saying that Fairlay is unsafe is the same as saying Betfair is unsafe. Fairlay had 2 problems in 10 years. Fairlay doesn’t ban, they don’t limit and they rarely have a problem. Let the case play out. The red at this point is insane.

Go look at the first page of scam accusations. BetCrypto is stealing 26,000 Euros, Rollbit is stealing $64k and and BC.game is stealing 12k USDT yet Fairlay is getting red for this case.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=83.0

The other cases are still open with only 1 or 0 replies from the site. Totally different than this case here where the site is basically banning a player over an own opinion.

That's why Fairlay got the red for their behaviour in this thread. They decided a game is fixed because they say so. There is no other site having having the same opinion. Game wasn't flagged, no other bookie cancelled the game.
Also they came here and were open to find a mediator, when they didn't like the opinion of the mediator they suggested themselves they quickly went back from that, which is also very strange.

By the way, Fairlay started this discussion here.
Anyway, let's see how this whole story plays out. There is nothing decided yet. A red tag can be changed but I think it is fair at this point to warn players when a site is acting like that. Just my personal opinion.

[Rating Place]

Fairlay started the thread looking for a credible person to arbitrate. They didn’t ask the whole forum as I’d assume that some personal information may be discussed. Fairlay asked efialtis to arbitrate. Truth be told, out of every casino, sportsbook and exchange here, Fairlay is the safest and it’s not close. They aren’t stealing money for jurisdiction or multi-accounting.

[efialtis]

Fairlay started the thread looking for a credible person to arbitrate. They didn’t ask the whole forum as I’d assume that some personal information may be discussed. Fairlay asked efialtis to arbitrate. Truth be told, out of every casino, sportsbook and exchange here, Fairlay is the safest and it’s not close. They aren’t stealing money for jurisdiction or multi-accounting.

They asked me and changed their mind as soon as I asked some valid questions, which by the way, remain unanswered.

No idea how you get to the conclusion that they are the safest operator in the field. The way they have presented themselves in this case is simply unprofessional and I am wondering why you`d disagree with that. I am not here to fight with you or anyone else, I have nothing to win or lose, I share my thoughts and that`s about it.

Edit: Even if the player took advantage of insider information or whatever (which could very well be the case, I even wrote that), it doesn`t change the fact that they aren`t acting professionally.

Edit 2: You seem to ignore the valid questions that remain unanswered and don`t take any of that into consideration.

Edit 3: Would you mind responding to our questions/remarks, too - thank you.   I am not going to get involved in stuff such as "name a site that`s safer" - you can`t be serious.

[Rating Place]

Fairlay started the thread looking for a credible person to arbitrate. They didn’t ask the whole forum as I’d assume that some personal information may be discussed. Fairlay asked efialtis to arbitrate. Truth be told, out of every casino, sportsbook and exchange here, Fairlay is the safest and it’s not close. They aren’t stealing money for jurisdiction or multi-accounting.

They asked me and changed their mind as soon as I asked some valid questions, which by the way, remain unanswered.

No idea how you get to the conclusion that they are the safest operator in the field. The way they have presented themselves in this case is simply unprofessional and I am wondering why you`d disagree with that. I am not here to fight with you or anyone else, I have nothing to win or lose, I share my thoughts and that`s about it.

Name 1 casino at BCT that is safer than Fairlay. You aren’t getting involved in that because there is no one safer. Being an exchange does help.

I’m not looking to fight either. Everyone is just posting their thoughts on this case and sometimes it doesn’t come across as the way intended.

edit- sorry that I missed part of your question.

1. As is I would agree with the player. But I still think we need to hear the whole case. Even after that I may agree with the player since the book must prove the player wrong. As far as how they have been acting, that's subjective. Even if people come to the conclusion of being unproffesional I don't think that should be a valid reason to rule either way.

2. I'm not sure what you mean by failing to answer the valid question. Which one?

3. Again, please be more specific.

[Upgrade00]

Name 1 casino at BCT that is safer than Fairlay. You aren’t getting involved in that because you know that no one is safer.

I don't think enough people have used fairlay to draw an opinion about it being safe and with their conduct through this thread they will have a very low rating at this point with many users here. I'll rate almost every active casino here (except those with active scam accusation threads) above them.

As far as how they have been acting, that's subjective. Even if people come to the conclusion of being unproffesional I don't think that should be a valid reason to rule either way.

It's not subjective, they have been unprofessional from the get go and have not listened to any comments made from other users here, ending it by referring to the users here as scammers was the cherry on top.

You are trying hard to whitewash their image.

[Rating Place]

Name 1 casino at BCT that is safer than Fairlay. You aren’t getting involved in that because you know that no one is safer.

I don't think enough people have used fairlay to draw an opinion about it being safe and with their conduct through this thread they will have a very low rating at this point with many users here. I'll rate almost every active casino here (except those with active scam accusation threads) above them.

As far as how they have been acting, that's subjective. Even if people come to the conclusion of being unproffesional I don't think that should be a valid reason to rule either way.

It's not subjective, they have been unprofessional from the get go and have not listened to any comments made from other users here, ending it by referring to the users here as scammers was the cherry on top.

You are trying hard to whitewash their image.

I'm not trying hard to do anything. Name how many things they have done wrong in 10 years and I'll show you any casino of your choosing that has done more wrong in the past 10 months.

I know for a fact that they were going to agree to binding arbitration with someone that wasn't hand picked. They asked me for refferals. Talk with holydarkness. I didn't try to persuade holydarkness to choose any side when I told him of the case.

Edit- there may have been changes but years ago they had 2 or 3 market makers and some type of affiliation with Pinny. If things are the same now, there is no way they are looking to scam.

[holydarkness]

[...]
Fairlay wanted a chance to present all evidence to an arbitrator, not everything in public. Unfortunately this case is being tried publicly which Fairlay never asked for. There are times when all information shouldn’t be divulged publicly. Fairlay must prove that the match was fixed but the accusations against them are false. More time is needed to let this all play out. I’m not saying that the match was fixed, but Fairlay has no ill intentions and money isn’t a problem.

Ahh... I see and understand the situation better now. With that info in mind, though it's rather useless right now as the wheel is already in motion, the situation will be in a much better shape if they reached out to those individuals privately, ask for mediation, and move to other individuals when the previous one refused. The possible bias from having one person influence the outcome aside, opening this thread and asking those who [by their own words] feel qualified to apply only opens to interpretation that they're open for a public investigation and mediation.

Though, if their goal is to prove that the match is fixed, I'm not sure how feasible that is. In my opinion, no one has the capacity to pass that kind of decision. Well, they have the capability to decide whether a game is fixed or not, but they're not in capacity to do so, unless they're an officials.

An outcome of investigation to fixed match should be determined through questionings all parties being involved, like the players, the bettors, and who knows who else, and I don't think someone that's not appointed officially by the league has access to do so.

[...]

[...]
I know for a fact that they were going to agree to binding arbitration with someone that wasn't hand picked. They asked me for refferals. Talk with holydarkness. I didn't try to persuade holydarkness to choose any side when I told him of the case.
[...]

Not gonna be involved on this "sub-topic", but since my name being mentioned and to clarify things... yeah, peeps didn't slip any note when he reached me, informing me about the existence of the case, he simply made me aware of the situation.

[mak013]

My opinion is that casino must return the bet and give an opportunity to withdraw it at least. But it would be fair to pay the prize.
I bet several times on fixed matches(i understand it later, watching the match) and lost. The bookie returned depo for the winner and didn`t cancel the other bets in these matches. Here it looks the same. When casino win - they take the money, but when they lost - they don`t want to pay. It isn`t fair.

[Rating Place]

We are very sorry to see, that reputable members of this community like efialtis and others immediately take side of some random (potentially criminal) guy over a business, that has a 10-year track record of serving all customers well and fairly. There must be a lot of scammers among the crypto bookmakers to make you react like this.  

No one "immediately" took sides with anyone. Your conduct and actions from the beginning of the thread has been unprofessional and overall terrible, at best. Your message further shows the unprofessional-ism, expecting the "random" player to be treated as a potential criminal.

And now again you are backtracking after coming yourself to seek arbitration and will opt for some random competent authority, which you may be referring to that way cause they have showed sympathy towards your actions.

You never wanted arbitration, you wanted people to support and agree with your decision, go where you will get that validation.

- Jay -

Couldn`t agree more, I didn`t bother responding to that poor post. They have acted as unprofessional as it gets from various angles.

General "rant": I cannot repeat often enough how sad I am about the fact that online gamblers/bettors, especially in the crypto space (but not limited to) are easily kept hostage. It`s just crazy that as a player in an online casino, as soon as you win big, you will only be happy for a little while until you start worrying if you will actually get your winnings paid out...

One thing that I’d like to address to give some background on Fairlay as far as winning big. People have been betting huge amounts of money at Fairlay for 10 years. Fairlay makes money on volume. As soon as there is a huge bet at Fairlay, the line moves immediately at Pinny.

[johanJ]

One thing that I’d like to address to give some background on Fairlay as far as winning big. People have been betting huge amounts of money at Fairlay for 10 years. Fairlay makes money on volume. As soon as there is a huge bet at Fairlay, the line moves immediately at Pinny.

because pinnacle is the marketmaker, everybody knows that, but fairlay doesnt say it out loud