[ANN][NHZ] - NeXT Horizon | ***PoS*** | BOUNTIES | escrow@poloniex

[MadCow]

What is reasonable you ask? Well, it's your project, so it's up to you guys to work that out asap and let people know, and then it's up to the rest of us to decide if that's fair.

I already explained our calculation (post #177 afair) - this is also used for our work.

Link to #177: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=551666.msg6068770#msg6068770

This is the text from #177

We're open to discuss the amount.

If you invest 20$ you get 40k in one month. I don't think you need a lot of time to maintain it, once set up it will run for months, except for occasional updates (where not all will be necessary on a server node). Estimating 40 minutes a month for those 40k seems pretty high to me.

Writing a good post or creating a guide easily takes one hour of time, probably more. Plus, it's of great value for the community to get people with those skills involved. Everyone here should be interested in good instructions and marketing, because it will raise interest, dispersion, and thus the value for all of us. And don't forget, a guide/post will be useful for a long time, a node is gone after the bounty was paid out.

Our calculation was the following: getting 10k for 5$ means if we give out 50k for one hour of work that's an hourly rate of about 25$. Add 10 minutes a month for maintaining the node, the rate for other work is ~30$/hour.
In my opinion that's quite low, but I'm very interested in why you think it would be too high and what you would propose instead.

I can't believe you guys are arguing the above statement forms the basis of a reasonable explanation of how the NHZ coins are being distributed to developers. How did you get "a few million each" out of the statement above?

The good thing about forums is everything is there for everyone to see.

You guys explained nothing, and so I can only assume you are either very stupid, or dishonest, or both. At the very least you have been lazy and didn't bother to spell out your plans.

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[cbkr]

"A few million each". Still evading the question - use numbers, not all the dev accounts were the same amount. Why?.

because some did more work than others. and you can look up the numbers yourself, right?

IMO 1 million each up to a total of 10 Million for development & bounties & promotion is justifiable for a basic copy paste of NXT.

Wow, 10 MILLLION each? We didn't even take that much. Wow. And YOU complain?!

These guys don't like questions.

We don't like repeating questions that already have been answered. I don't know why you are trying to kill this project, I can only guess. But the way you are trying to do it is gross.

The people behind NHZ don't like transparency, so they're probably not trustworthy. Too much competition for these guys to survive.

Please tell me again where we are not transparent. We explained everything MULTIPLE TIMES now.

I can't believe you guys are arguing the above statement forms the basis of a reasonable explanation of how the NHZ coins are being distributed to developers. How did you get "a few million each" out of the statement above?

Well, we are working on it every day for many hours. And it's not just a copy & paste of NXT. We are setting up infrastructure around it. I bet you don't even have a clue how much work some things can be, do you?

The good thing about forums is everything is there for everyone to see.

Yeah I like that too. So not everybody will fall four your deceptive nonsense.

You guys explained nothing, and so I can only assume you are either very stupid, or dishonest, or both. At the very least you have been lazy and didn't bother to spell out your plans.

Go make your own project with your bought developers (Remember? "Up to 10M each!11") and stop bothering us. Every time we have to answer to you we lose time to develop.


To everyone still here: We are in the process of setting up a forum with more detailed information on distribution and already paid bounties. The website also start to look good. We will release both in the near future. There are also a lot of different things to do for bounty, so if you don't want to run a node just meet us in IRC and talk to us!
We know that we started this project a bit chaotic but we're certainly not a scam coin. We want this to be as fair as possible and stable for a long time (thus the node bounty).
Please come and talk to us on IRC if you have any questions, as this forum is probably not the right place to have a decent conversation.
Take care everyone!

cbkr

[MadCow]

"A few million each". Still evading the question - use numbers, not all the dev accounts were the same amount. Why?.

because some did more work than others. and you can look up the numbers yourself, right?

Why not make your plans clear? I can only look up the numbers now because another guy asked, and you guys got very defensive over that enquiry.

It wont be long before a clone of NHZ appears. NHZ doesn't have any original content, so your only card to play was the distribution to nodes. That's easy to copy.

"because some did more work than others" don't you realise how evasive and suspect you guys look? And that's to someone who had 10 nodes up within two days, so I am really keen on your idea.

All you had to do was not look like get rich quick cowboys. You blew it.

First rule in the game clone game - be upfront and answer questions honestly and without attitude, especially when your product has very little innovation.

My 10 nodes are ready for the NHZ clone that's developed by smart people.

[MadCow]

Wow, 10 MILLLION each? We didn't even take that much. Wow. And YOU complain?!

1 million each, 10 million total. You have problems writing and reading lol

[cbkr]

Why not make your plans clear? I can only look up the numbers now because another guy asked, and you guys got very defensive over that enquiry.

no. you can look up the numbers because we have a public block explorer we wrote from scratch. sorry, but you're wrong again.

My 10 nodes are ready for the NHZ clone that's developed by smart people.

go develop it yourself if you're so smart and stop trying to kill our project. everyone *wanting* answers can come and talk to us on IRC here: https://kiwiirc.com/client/irc.freenode.org/?nick=bctUser|?#NHZ
I don't feel like answering questions here any more if nobody is listening. Just come talk to me directly on IRC. This thread is really getting ridiculous.
 

[MadCow]

The dev accounts have been mentioned before, we won't write our names behind them. Respect our wish for privacy. Yes, we got a few M each. We have been working hard on this, what did you do except browsing the block explorer we set up?

Your attitudes have killed a good idea before it had time to work. Someone will do it properly very soon.

To all the people following NXT, if you are a developer, please reboot NHZ and do it properly. Use one account to pay all the nodes, and announce which accounts are developers right at the start. Don't leave it for people to ask questions and give them rude evasive answers. I had 10 nodes but not worth the effort with these guys. They will fail IMO because they don't understand how to build a community from unknown people. You need to be open and honest.

"A few million each". Still evading the question - use numbers, not all the dev accounts were the same amount. Why?.

The successful clone of your idea will specify exact amounts and justify why that is fair. IMO 1 million each up to a total of 10 Million for development & bounties & promotion is justifiable for a basic copy paste of NXT. If this sounds reasonable to any developers send me a PM.

These guys don't like questions. They could have easily made a proper announcement post that spelled everything out at the start.

The people behind NHZ don't like transparency, so they're probably not trustworthy. Too much competition for these guys to survive.

You guys are getting desperate now. What I said was very clear. IMO 1 million each up to a total of 10 Million for development & bounties & promotion is justifiable for a basic copy paste of NXT

I was a supporter, so I'm not a troll.

Looking forward to a reboot of your idea from smart people.

[MadCow]

We know that we started this project a bit chaotic but we're certainly not a scam coin. We want this to be as fair as possible and stable for a long time (thus the node bounty).

So, you admit it now. If you admit that from the start without attacking people asking obvious necessary questions you would not have caused this perception problem - that you guys are suspect.

Chaotic start is ok. Defensive bull-shit responses and shoot the questioner down attitude is not ok.

But at least you admit to chaotic start now, that is something. Maybe there is hope for you, but you need more damage control. Full accountability on your distribution plans asap.

[cbkr]

So, you admit it now. If you admit that from the start without attacking people asking obvious necessary questions you would not have caused this perception problem - that you guys are suspect.

I don't get how that makes us suspect but fine.. I don't even care any more what you think.

But at least you admit to chaotic start now, that is something. Maybe there is hope for you, but you need more damage control. Full accountability on your distribution plans asap.

The chaotic start was obvious. Why force us to do that statement? Well...
We are writing up everything we distributed so far and we already told you. So just chill for a bit and show some patience. Thanks.
It's not like we're stealing money from any of you or are forcing you to participate.

[MadCow]

The chaotic start was obvious. Why force us to do that statement? Well...

Because responses like the one below to someone interested in you project asking legitimate questions make you look like a suspect dick. You were rude and evasive. And the response below wasn't to me, but I found it bizarre. You're trying to get strangers in a very crowded market place to like your vanilla clone of NXT - be polite and helpful.

dude can you read?
the developer accounts are listed above. all other accounts are bounty accounts as already mentioned.
or people receiving bounties for translations, working on some code, design (biggest non-developer bounty so far), etc.
the extreme envy about amounts in the 100k range is... well.. childish.
no one gets a huge amount of coins for free
we won't release a list of known account holders. where would this lead?
seriously, calm the f* down.
there is still enough bounty for everyone to grab.

Drop the attitude and most people can accommodate some 'chaos'.

[chanc3r]

You guys are getting desperate now. What I said was very clear. IMO 1 million each up to a total of 10 Million for development & bounties & promotion is justifiable for a basic copy paste of NXT

I was a supporter, so I'm not a troll.

Looking forward to a reboot of your idea from smart people.

Hi,

I'm interested in this coin so can you explain how you know NHZ is just a copy paste of NXT? Have you reviewed the code or have some information?

I take you at your word that these guys have taken 10M - isn't that 1% of the coins - is that a big problem for something that is worth nothing at the moment?

If they have automated the server bounties - why wouldn't they pay these out of one or more accounts, exchanges for example use multiple accounts routinely to avoid having too much in one place and subject to a hack and the account doing this would have to have its secret-phrase coded in the software.

From chatting to these guys on IRC - which is where they have invited people to come and chat they seem like a pretty talented bunch of tech guys - so don't expect them to be great as communication and therefore draw too many conclusions from how they say something...

Why not offer to do something for NHZ, get an offer of a bounty, if they don't come through  then I think you have a valid complaint.

[MadCow]

You guys are getting desperate now. What I said was very clear. IMO 1 million each up to a total of 10 Million for development & bounties & promotion is justifiable for a basic copy paste of NXT

I was a supporter, so I'm not a troll.

Looking forward to a reboot of your idea from smart people.

Hi,

I'm interested in this coin so can you explain how you know NHZ is just a copy paste of NXT? Have you reviewed the code or have some information?

I take you at your word that these guys have taken 10M - isn't that 1% of the coins - is that a big problem for something that is worth nothing at the moment?

If they have automated the server bounties - why wouldn't they pay these out of one or more accounts, exchanges for example use multiple accounts routinely to avoid having too much in one place and subject to a hack and the account doing this would have to have its secret-phrase coded in the software.

From chatting to these guys on IRC - which is where they have invited people to come and chat they seem like a pretty talented bunch of tech guys - so don't expect them to be great as communication and therefore draw too many conclusions from how they say something...

Why not offer to do something for NHZ, get an offer of a bounty, if they don't come through  then I think you have a valid complaint.

I base my assumption that NHZ is pretty much an exact  clone of NXT at this moment from the opening sentence of their announcement

[NHZ] is a fork of NXT - rock solid software which has been running for months....

We are concentrating on a better and fairer long-term distribution and adding new features!

I take that as meaning NHZ is an exact clone of NXT with potential for changes down the road.

My suggestion was for total dev & promotion costs to be 10 Million coins. I'm not sure what the NHZ guys are paying themselves, but one of them mentioned a budget of 50 Million.

My complaint with this project so far is

1 - they did not spell out their distribution plan as it relates to the developers
2- when asked they became narky, evasive, and rude

I'm a big boy, so the rudeness does not bother me, but evasion of simple questions, especially when combined with insults to the questioner does set of a red flag. Incompetence, bad planning, dishonesty, laziness.

I setup 10 nodes, and I'm doing something by providing feedback here. My feedback is tough, but legitimate, and if they listen maybe their project will be stronger.

Without accountability for all payments NHZ will suffer.
Without building a good community NHZ will suffer.
Without explaining how the developers are being compensated NHZ will suffer.
Answering legitimate questions with attitude will kill this coin.

[HarriHirsch]

Hey,

it is time for all to calm down a little bit if we don't want to destroy this coin.

I really like the idea and want it to be a success.

@Devs: How do You like the following:

Add to the announcement a list of the developers with a short introduction, so erverybody knows who is in the team.
Add to the announcement a short table listing how much coins every developer has gotten, how much is planned for bounties and how much is reserved for expenses like hosting, promotion, etc. Surely the devs should have some coins for their effort!

If You do so, we will have much more transparency that is easy to access. Not everyone wants to use the block explorer to gain that information, this process leads to more questions from more people.

Its time to work together to make this coin a success !!!

Greetings,

Harri

[MadCow]

Hey,

it is time for all to calm down a little bit if we don't want to destroy this coin.

I really like the idea and want it to be a success.

@Devs: How do You like the following:

Add to the announcement a list of the developers with a short introduction, so erverybody knows who is in the team.
Add to the announcement a short table listing how much coins every developer has gotten, how much is planned for bounties and how much is reserved for expenses like hosting, promotion, etc. Surely the devs should have some coins for their effort!

If You do so, we will have much more transparency that is easy to access. Not everyone wants to use the block explorer to gain that information, this process leads to more questions from more people.

Its time to work together to make this coin a success !!!

Greetings,

Harri

Good advice!

[HarriHirsch]

Without accountability for all payments NHZ will suffer.
Without building a good community NHZ will suffer.
Without explaining how the developers are being compensated NHZ will suffer.
Answering legitimate questions with attitude will kill this coin.

Hey, although I think MadCow is a bit pushy and tough in his statements, I think the above four sentences are correct.

I am a software developer myself and the experiences with my customers are as follows: They sadly don't see the great technical details themselves, so everything has to be explained clearly in non dev-speak 

Lets work together and let this coin be a success !!!

[chanc3r]

Without accountability for all payments NHZ will suffer.
Without building a good community NHZ will suffer.
Without explaining how the developers are being compensated NHZ will suffer.
Answering legitimate questions with attitude will kill this coin.

Hey, although I think MadCow is a bit pushy and tough in his statements, I think the above four sentences are correct.

I am a software developer myself and the experiences with my customers are as follows: They sadly don't see the great technical details themselves, so everything has to be explained clearly in non dev-speak 

Lets work together and let this coin be a success !!!

I agree with this too...

Its great to hear that MC has set up 10 nodes, thats 6.6k/day, 200k/month at current rates - nice stake.

Unfortunately tough statements / accusations often get met with tough response. Asking questions with attitude is also a problem.
Along with assumptions that because an answer is not given right away something unfair or wrong is going on which is all too common in this forum.
This fork, I note not 'clone' is a few weeks old - so some differences perhaps?
Essentially the coins are 'un-distributed', the idea as I understand from the posts is to distribute by bounty but what, when other than the node bounties seems unclear.
Maybe this was announced 'too early' but perhaps we should propose ideas in this thread rather than demand accountability for what has already happened.
I too have set up 5 nodes and am prepared to 'give this community the benefit of some time' to get organised, rather than have all the answers right away.

[poncom]

The devs are probably completely trustworthy, but as long as they have most of the coins people will be nervous about them dumping them on the first exchange to list the coin. After a significant quantity have been distributed people might be less nervous of a dump.

[cbkr]

[...], but as long as they have most of the coins people will be nervous about them dumping them on the first exchange to list the coin. After a significant quantity have been distributed people might be less nervous of a dump.

That makes sense. But what else can we do? I can just repeat that you can meet us live in IRC. Everyone interested should hang out there. It's a great place to be.

[illiki23]

I am unable to unlock that port and cannot take part in the coin by running a node.  I don't have access to the router we are using.

Are there alternatives, other than translating and blog posts, that would give an equivalent amount of coins?

I want to take part in this coin but do not know what my options are.

I was going to make a faucet/game but ran into the same problem, it won't let me make the http calls I need to interact with the blockchain so I am assuming it is related to that port.  At least I have the javascript for the game itself written up.

[chanc3r]

I am unable to unlock that port and cannot take part in the coin by running a node.  I don't have access to the router we are using.

Are there alternatives, other than translating and blog posts, that would give an equivalent amount of coins?

I want to take part in this coin but do not know what my options are.

I was going to make a faucet/game but ran into the same problem, it won't let me make the http calls I need to interact with the blockchain so I am assuming it is related to that port.  At least I have the javascript for the game itself written up.

Unless you can forward 7774 and have a static IP - getting the node bounty isn't possible as I understand it.

You could open an account with a consumer cloud services company and pay  few $ per month for a virtual machine and run it on that which is what i'm doing - so i'm kind of spending real money to get the bounty - but its a bet that this coin will be worth something one day.

if you decide to go down this route and are having problems come on the IRC channel or see the guide posted earlier in this thread and someone will talk you through it.

[HarriHirsch]

I also use a virtual machine on a consumer cloud service.

I think, it is a good way to have your node up nearly 24/7.

Also in Germany we pay about 0.30 Ct per KWh, so in the end it is cheaper than running even a small machine at home.