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Author Topic: Responsible, and Safe Gambling.  (Read 4007 times)
Reid
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February 06, 2025, 02:23:21 AM
 #101

Thank you for sharing this. It's really helpful. I had my own emotional swings when I played slots back in the days and I can say it can be stressful when you are on the losing side which happens regularly on those types of games. When I realized I was just losing and not even getting back the complete amount that I had lost, I stopped.
There's no sense in continuing and I also know the truth that the house edge will always be there to keep on getting it back after I win a part of what I lost. So, I switched back to sports and just occasionally bet on different sports that I know.
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February 06, 2025, 07:23:45 AM
 #102

So you can't stop gambling if you are earning profit because even your family will be in peace with you...
Family members will even constantly remind you to gamble when they know you often win, and seek your opinion on what games to bet on. It goes a long way to show that everyone loves success. It doesn't matter on what field one is recording the success.

Quote
...but you are likely to lose your wife and family if you are always losing, not taking care of the family because you use money for the family to gamble.
Here reminds me of Michael Henchard, a character in Thomas Hardy's novel "Mayor of Casterbridge" who sold off his wife in his state of  drunkenness. Addiction in gambling is even worse than any level of drunkenness. An addict can lay hands on anything and sell provided they get money to fuel their addiction.

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Fivestar4everMVP
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February 06, 2025, 08:04:42 AM
 #103

Thank you for sharing this. It's really helpful. I had my own emotional swings when I played slots back in the days and I can say it can be stressful when you are on the losing side which happens regularly on those types of games. When I realized I was just losing and not even getting back the complete amount that I had lost, I stopped.
There's no sense in continuing and I also know the truth that the house edge will always be there to keep on getting it back after I win a part of what I lost. So, I switched back to sports and just occasionally bet on different sports that I know.
Sports betting seems to have become the safest form of gambling where the gambler doesn't have to depend on machines or algorithm to decide for them when they win and or lose, but their winning and losing has more to do with their knowledge of the sports they are betting on and how they are able to correctly and accurately predict the outcome of the game, and also dependent on a very tiny bit of luck.

I myself as well used to be a very active slot and casino games player until I realized I was losing far more than I was gaining, at a point, I started to feel that I was being cheated on by the game providers, I had to switch to sports betting where I seem to be in more control.
Today, I only play slot and casino games whenever I just want to have fun and not so interested in making money.

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February 06, 2025, 08:16:14 AM
 #104

I think that each player has his own understanding of what game is responsible. And what game is safe. And it often happens that, having seen how riskily a certain familiar player plays, you can call such a game too risky. However, for such a player, his game is not considered dangerous and risky at all. Moreover, such assessments of risks and responsibility, in my opinion, can seriously change as the player gains experience. It is the experienced player who most likely more objectively correlates what game can be considered risky or safe. In short, our experience determines our attitude to the game.
That specification can be used in slot, crash and other casino games and not in sport specifically football. Crash games like Aviator is dangerous even worse than Lucky Jet. And as for me.if I will choose a responsible game it will be only sport and it is football. You place your bet and relaxed waiting for the outcome of the game . If it favoured me I would take it and if it would not then I leave. A responsible gambler is the one who has experienced in a particular game, set fund for his gambling and not driving by greed and when he loses he left.amd not to chase the losses.

AFAIK, Crash game and other type of crash game related has the option to take profit/cashout on a price that you desired. It’s not that dangerous if you will choose safer way on betting with that game which setting cashout @lower multiplier. This is same on sportsbook which you choose match that has high possibility to happened that incorporates with lower odds.

The only difference is the time frame of the match and the ability to analyze the game to find a bet that has good odds for the probability it will likely to happened.
In my opinion, the style of the game can be roughly interpolated to almost any version of gambling. But of course, taking into account the features, speed and dynamics of the game. Still, there is a difference between a responsible and balanced game and a completely risky, spontaneous and very impulsive one. But as I think, some players reach such a state of excitement in the game that sometimes they do completely crazy game actions. Then, of course, they regret it.
But it is still a game, and the price for such behavior is just money, although it is bad when they lose more than what the player could afford.
However, money is somehow earned by any person, and such events then become a thing of the past and are forgotten.
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February 06, 2025, 09:32:51 AM
 #105

So you can't stop gambling if you are earning profit because even your family will be in peace with you...
Family members will even constantly remind you to gamble when they know you often win, and seek your opinion on what games to bet on. It goes a long way to show that everyone loves success. It doesn't matter on what field one is recording the success.

Quote
...but you are likely to lose your wife and family if you are always losing, not taking care of the family because you use money for the family to gamble.
Here reminds me of Michael Henchard, a character in Thomas Hardy's novel "Mayor of Casterbridge" who sold off his wife in his state of  drunkenness. Addiction in gambling is even worse than any level of drunkenness. An addict can lay hands on anything and sell provided they get money to fuel their addiction.

It seems quite restored to me as a situation, it can turn to the worst at any time
I find it wrong to think that bets can give life to an income, unfortunately it is not enough to know and know the sport well to make winning bets
Often the case and fortune often enters.

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February 06, 2025, 12:14:23 PM
 #106

Thank you for sharing this. It's really helpful. I had my own emotional swings when I played slots back in the days and I can say it can be stressful when you are on the losing side which happens regularly on those types of games. When I realized I was just losing and not even getting back the complete amount that I had lost, I stopped.

It quite better to realize things in a much earlier stage, as there are chances that you'll be more aggressive trying to recover your loses, which can lead you to something that you may regret after, taking that hard stop let you save yourself from getting addicted, it's more on how you keep that control and not to allow your emotions to dominate you.

Quote
There's no sense in continuing and I also know the truth that the house edge will always be there to keep on getting it back after I win a part of what I lost. So, I switched back to sports and just occasionally bet on different sports that I know.

Better opportunities or better chance of winning especially if you know the game that you are supporting, you can pick what you think is best that will give you possible earnings.


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February 06, 2025, 06:49:14 PM
 #107

-snip-
You never know until you try right? If this goes then, it’s a case of having to find how you can handle it after you must have attempted it, you might need help, you might not. You would only learn how to manage it after you’ve indulged yourself in the activity.

Gambling might be that addictive but, you’ve got to have certain financial freedom if you have any hopes of managing it. When it becomes your only hope or means to some livelihood as a player, it could mean trouble.
It's better to never try if you're afraid of getting addicted and have a hard time stopping - I think that's the best advice for anyone new to gambling. Many addicts are basically those who are initially curious about how gambling works - but because they like it for some other reason, they will continue it for the reason of just wanting to have fun. Almost all games will make us curious - but the most annoying thing is when we have to trick ourselves into saying we are not addicted.
Yeah, I am totally agree with you, gambling addiction is coming gradually in the newcomer gambler, when a new gambler are very curious and excited to bet in the casino sites and they think how much earn possible in the gambling, because they heard from someone who said it’s only huge earning machine, so they start gambling and such way gambling can be addict for a new gambler. 
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February 06, 2025, 08:22:26 PM
 #108

Thank you for sharing this. It's really helpful. I had my own emotional swings when I played slots back in the days and I can say it can be stressful when you are on the losing side which happens regularly on those types of games. When I realized I was just losing and not even getting back the complete amount that I had lost, I stopped.
There's no sense in continuing and I also know the truth that the house edge will always be there to keep on getting it back after I win a part of what I lost. So, I switched back to sports and just occasionally bet on different sports that I know.
It is important we learn the habit of gambling safely because most of the bets will end in losses even when we have high expectations that the bet is going to give us profits. Money need to be made but most time we pay difficult prize to get to the level where making money from gambling would not be as hard as it used to be. Gambling can be profitable and can also be disappointing when you are not making anything tangible from the market. Let's keep trying our luck to make some profits from whatever kind of bets we choose to go for.
It is a normal norms for a gambler to keep betting for as long as possible, just to make profits before leaving the casino for the next bet.
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February 06, 2025, 08:37:37 PM
 #109

Another reason may be seen from an economic point of view, not a few people who want to try their luck in gambling on the pretext of wanting to increase income in a short time, but we know what the end result is, even if they win there will definitely be a sense of greed that causes total defeat.

When you mentioned economic reasons I had thought you were going to talk about unemployment. It has been one of the economic reasons why a lot of persons submit to gambling as a means to make some cash if they gets lucky.

But at getting a payable job it helps reduces their heavy dependence on making money through gambling which could in the pipeline lead to their stopping to gamble since they now have a good job which earn them good money or they either limit the way the use to gamble and that's where the word control sets in.

Unemployment have been the major cause of the rise why many youths get involved in gambling now, even those that criticized gambling in the past have now entered into gambling activities and apart from unemployment, another reason why more people have been involved in gambling is because due to inflation, the money they earn is no longer enough to meet up with their daily demands which now led them to looking for a means of making more money thereby they find gambling as a platform they can make money from without even considering how much they could risk before they can win from gambling.
         Having a job gets people distracted from involving in gambling activities but it doesn't stop people from gambling because a lot of people wish for where they can make quick wealth which makes them feel they can get lucky to make a lot of money from gambling. The truth is just that people can limit the time or money they spend in gambling, but it is difficult for majority of gamblers to quit gambling due to the mentality that they can get quick rich from it even when they know that gambling is also capable of wrecking someone who do not gamble responsibly.

I have an uncle who criticize gamblers in the time pass yeah while he was still working with a construction company, but at a time when the company lay of some workers of which my uncle was among them, he has at home for quite for some time without job, he has become a full time gambler which he criticize in the time pass, he now find himself doing some petty jobs to get money to take care of the family which of course will not be enough so he decided to include gambling as a means of getting money, that's so funny. Yeah I quite agree with you that having a job distract people from get high hopes of getting money from gambling.

 
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February 06, 2025, 09:02:37 PM
 #110

~Snipped out~.
When you mentioned economic reasons I had thought you were going to talk about unemployment. It has been one of the economic reasons why a lot of persons submit to gambling as a means to make some cash if they gets lucky.

But at getting a payable job it helps reduces their heavy dependence on making money through gambling which could in the pipeline lead to their stopping to gamble since they now have a good job which earn them good money or they either limit the way the use to gamble and that's where the word control sets in.

Unemployment have been the major cause of the rise why many youths get involved in gambling now, even those that criticized gambling in the past have now entered into gambling activities and apart from unemployment, another reason why more people have been involved in gambling is because due to inflation, the money they earn is no longer enough to meet up with their daily demands which now led them to looking for a means of making more money thereby they find gambling as a platform they can make money from without even considering how much they could risk before they can win from gambling.
         Having a job gets people distracted from involving in gambling activities but it doesn't stop people from gambling because a lot of people wish for where they can make quick wealth which makes them feel they can get lucky to make a lot of money from gambling. The truth is just that people can limit the time or money they spend in gambling, but it is difficult for majority of gamblers to quit gambling due to the mentality that they can get quick rich from it even when they know that gambling is also capable of wrecking someone who do not gamble responsibly.

I have an uncle who criticize gamblers in the time pass yeah while he was still working with a construction company, but at a time when the company lay of some workers of which my uncle was among them, he has at home for quite for some time without job, he has become a full time gambler which he criticize in the time pass, he now find himself doing some petty jobs to get money to take care of the family which of course will not be enough so he decided to include gambling as a means of getting money, that's so funny. Yeah I quite agree with you that having a job distract people from get high hopes of getting money from gambling.
A lot of people that gambles today is as a result of the conditions of events surrounding them, the failing situation of things cutting off their income source has alternate gambling to them as means to get some supportive bucks. People with whom life is going fine financially for them will definitely have a different perspective about gambling. It's normal. All what am against from gamblers is when you tend to gamble irresponsibly because you want to make money by all means from gambling when it ought not to be so.

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February 06, 2025, 09:31:57 PM
 #111

Unemployment have been the major cause of the rise why many youths get involved in gambling now, even those that criticized gambling in the past have now entered into gambling activities and apart from unemployment, another reason why more people have been involved in gambling is because due to inflation, the money they earn is no longer enough to meet up with their daily demands which now led them to looking for a means of making more money thereby they find gambling as a platform they can make money from without even considering how much they could risk before they can win from gambling.
         Having a job gets people distracted from involving in gambling activities but it doesn't stop people from gambling because a lot of people wish for where they can make quick wealth which makes them feel they can get lucky to make a lot of money from gambling. The truth is just that people can limit the time or money they spend in gambling, but it is difficult for majority of gamblers to quit gambling due to the mentality that they can get quick rich from it even when they know that gambling is also capable of wrecking someone who do not gamble responsibly.

I have an uncle who criticize gamblers in the time pass yeah while he was still working with a construction company, but at a time when the company lay of some workers of which my uncle was among them, he has at home for quite for some time without job, he has become a full time gambler which he criticize in the time pass, he now find himself doing some petty jobs to get money to take care of the family which of course will not be enough so he decided to include gambling as a means of getting money, that's so funny. Yeah I quite agree with you that having a job distract people from get high hopes of getting money from gambling.

You see, but when he had work he was doing, he didn't pay attention to gambling because he was earning and taking care of his family but as soon as his job ended, he now saw what he criticized as an easy way to make money. That is to say that joblessness can make one engage in things they never planned to join just because they want to ease the tension of their joblessness and to find what to engage in so that it won't look as though they are idle and unproductive. There was a man that had similar experience of losing his job just like your uncle and was always lonely and bored at home before one of his brothers that is into gambling introduced him to gambling and the man now spend most of his time and money in the gambling office siting that it makes him not to be idle and to also be exposed to an opportunity of becoming rich through gambling one day. You can see the mentality of that man but if he still had his job could he have been spending more of his time and money on gambling? Even if you are an addicted gambler but you have a job, it will distract you from engaging in gambling activities within those working hours.

R


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February 06, 2025, 09:37:27 PM
 #112

I want to hear more ideas about how someone stops or controls their gambling habits.  Smiley
I started to bet in February 2014 and the addiction started also immediately. I stopped betting in August 2019 because the addiction made my life miserable. I gambled in September 2020 but I stopped again when I noticed that I may get addicted. Two months later, I gambled again but I noticed I have control over gambling. I did not gamble often anymore till today and I use small amount of money.

What that corrected me was that I stopped thinking about how to make money from gambling. I realized that I was fooling myself that it is not possible and that made me quit problem gambling.
All those while your mental capacity was trying to adapt to pre-programmed resistance, that is why you could notice quickly that you were becoming addicted and also being able to pull out of it on time, many others won't notice that and in the end, they will shift the blame of their addiction on the casinos or others whereas it Individuals responsibility to at least guide your gambling activities and be observant enough to spot addiction tendency early.  Well, it is good that you have gotten over that and be able to enjoy your gambling life again without an addiction setting in and all that it takes to remain free is discipline.

 
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February 07, 2025, 02:13:17 PM
 #113

I want to hear more ideas about how someone stops or controls their gambling habits.  Smiley
I started to bet in February 2014 and the addiction started also immediately. I stopped betting in August 2019 because the addiction made my life miserable. I gambled in September 2020 but I stopped again when I noticed that I may get addicted. Two months later, I gambled again but I noticed I have control over gambling. I did not gamble often anymore till today and I use small amount of money.

What that corrected me was that I stopped thinking about how to make money from gambling. I realized that I was fooling myself that it is not possible and that made me quit problem gambling.
All those while your mental capacity was trying to adapt to pre-programmed resistance, that is why you could notice quickly that you were becoming addicted and also being able to pull out of it on time, many others won't notice that and in the end, they will shift the blame of their addiction on the casinos or others whereas it Individuals responsibility to at least guide your gambling activities and be observant enough to spot addiction tendency early.  Well, it is good that you have gotten over that and be able to enjoy your gambling life again without an addiction setting in and all that it takes to remain free is discipline.

Self consciousness is something every gambler should hold in high priority, that is, being aware of oneself all the time, this is what helps us to monitor and put ourself in check at all time and in every activity we engage ourself in, most especially if it is an addictive activity like gambling.
Loss of self consciousness for a considerable long period of time can lead us to becoming addicted to what ever we do that is addictive, not just gambling.

And another one is setting goals, and this is where discipline comes in, we can set goals but without self discipline, we won't be able to stick to our goals, a person can set a goal to only gamble three times in a week and only spend a maximum of $10 on each of those days he or she will gamble during the week, this is a very good goal as it not only helps the gambler not to get addicted, but also help to save money, but self discipline is required to keep to this goal, for without this, we simply will say we will do one thing, and then the next minute, find ourself doing something totally different.

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February 09, 2025, 05:38:45 AM
 #114

There are many articles online on how one should gamble responsibly, but are there any success stories of people who've successfully stopped gambling after following any advice mentioned in those blog posts?

Impact of Gambling Official Blog Post

I want to hear more ideas about how someone stops or controls their gambling habits.  Smiley
We may not find direct articles/blogs that will compile the list of people who have been healed through gambling blogs, but I tell you, there will be many of them.

Also, there will be many who are motivated through it and have an increase in this willpower to fight gambling. However, we can't neglect the fact that some may be healed halfway due to the lack of physical therapists or friends/family that will persistently remind and help them until they fully heal.

Above all, the blogs are positive and helpful, we can't deny that. It's left for us to follow the advice.

.
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February 09, 2025, 06:51:07 AM
 #115

When you expecting something to work out for you in a very long time and you don't know how to move on you will lose your mind, that is the case with gambling if you want everything from this act, gambling is peace of mind only if you want to relax and have some fun.

Truth be told, the majority of gamblers don't want the relaxing part, they took the risk to make money in the first place, it is either to win or go back home broke, the risk tolerance of some people is out of this world, I as a person just can't imagine myself getting lost in such act, I am comfortable with having fun while gamble and this have made me not to engage in gambling every now and then.

My finally answer remains, it is left for every individual to choose what's best for them, at the end of the day, even after all the advice people will still do what they intend.

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February 10, 2025, 11:27:40 AM
 #116

There are many articles online on how one should gamble responsibly, but are there any success stories of people who've successfully stopped gambling after following any advice mentioned in those blog posts?

Impact of Gambling Official Blog Post

I want to hear more ideas about how someone stops or controls their gambling habits.  Smiley
We may not find direct articles/blogs that will compile the list of people who have been healed through gambling blogs, but I tell you, there will be many of them.

Also, there will be many who are motivated through it and have an increase in this willpower to fight gambling. However, we can't neglect the fact that some may be healed halfway due to the lack of physical therapists or friends/family that will persistently remind and help them until they fully heal.

Above all, the blogs are positive and helpful, we can't deny that. It's left for us to follow the advice.

I don't have access to data on how many people became addicted to gambling in every country and how many were cured. But looking at things I've seen in my country, I would venture to say that most people who become addicted are cured but then return to their addiction. There are few cases of addicted people who were cured and didn't become addicted again. Unfortunately, dealing with someone who is addicted is not easy, which is why the families of addicts abandon them.

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February 10, 2025, 11:44:38 AM
 #117

There are many articles online on how one should gamble responsibly, but are there any success stories of people who've successfully stopped gambling after following any advice mentioned in those blog posts?

Impact of Gambling Official Blog Post

I want to hear more ideas about how someone stops or controls their gambling habits.  Smiley
We may not find direct articles/blogs that will compile the list of people who have been healed through gambling blogs, but I tell you, there will be many of them.

Also, there will be many who are motivated through it and have an increase in this willpower to fight gambling. However, we can't neglect the fact that some may be healed halfway due to the lack of physical therapists or friends/family that will persistently remind and help them until they fully heal.

Above all, the blogs are positive and helpful, we can't deny that. It's left for us to follow the advice.

I don't have access to data on how many people became addicted to gambling in every country and how many were cured. But looking at things I've seen in my country, I would venture to say that most people who become addicted are cured but then return to their addiction. There are few cases of addicted people who were cured and didn't become addicted again. Unfortunately, dealing with someone who is addicted is not easy, which is why the families of addicts abandon them.
I don't know but I personally think there is no such data on how many people get addicted to gambling in a country and how many of them were or gets cured, if such data does exist, then I am 101 percent sure that the data won't be correct, and this is because the issue of addiction is like a personal thing, some people get addicted to something and no one will ever know about it, a friend of mine way back 2010 was addicted to gambling from several years back from when he was a teenager, and no one in his family knew about except myself because he choose to open up to me and then asked me to never mention it to any one.

So, I do not think there is a way for any country to have such data because being addicted to gambling is not the same as someone becoming mad, where everyone who sees you knows that you are mad, many people can be addicted to gambling, and still yet, maintain their cool at all times most especially when they are outside in public.

And let me also say rhat gambling addiction is of several levels, if families will learn to help their own immediately they discover he or she is addicted to gambling, perhaps, it won't get to the level where the family will have no choice but to abandon their own person due to the issue.

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February 10, 2025, 03:39:39 PM
 #118

I want to hear more ideas about how someone stops or controls their gambling habits.  Smiley
I started to bet in February 2014 and the addiction started also immediately. I stopped betting in August 2019 because the addiction made my life miserable. I gambled in September 2020 but I stopped again when I noticed that I may get addicted. Two months later, I gambled again but I noticed I have control over gambling. I did not gamble often anymore till today and I use small amount of money.

What that corrected me was that I stopped thinking about how to make money from gambling. I realized that I was fooling myself that it is not possible and that made me quit problem gambling.
All those while your mental capacity was trying to adapt to pre-programmed resistance, that is why you could notice quickly that you were becoming addicted and also being able to pull out of it on time, many others won't notice that and in the end, they will shift the blame of their addiction on the casinos or others whereas it Individuals responsibility to at least guide your gambling activities and be observant enough to spot addiction tendency early.  Well, it is good that you have gotten over that and be able to enjoy your gambling life again without an addiction setting in and all that it takes to remain free is discipline.

Everything will really be that depending into your mind because if you were really just that mindful into your actions then you will definitely not putting up yourself into such issues. The most common problem on here at the time or moment that you will really be that able to experience is into that addiction that you can possibly be that hooked up but not all people does have that same mentality when it comes to gambling dealing on which there are ones who are really that just playing for fun and not getting addicted but there were those people who are really that doing the opposite. This is why situations will really  be that different on each person and this is why its always been that good that having good self control and awareness on things.

Gambling wont be able to harm you if you are really just that sensible into the things that you've been doing. Everything will really be that in accordance into the actions that you are taking because if you are really that responsible into the actions that you are taking then you wont really be having problems but if you do go to the other side then you will definitely be facing up some issues. Gambling is really just that for fun but if you are that not mindful into the actions you are doing into then you will definitely facing up problems.

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February 11, 2025, 08:29:06 AM
 #119

I want to hear more ideas about how someone stops or controls their gambling habits.  Smiley
I started to bet in February 2014 and the addiction started also immediately. I stopped betting in August 2019 because the addiction made my life miserable. I gambled in September 2020 but I stopped again when I noticed that I may get addicted. Two months later, I gambled again but I noticed I have control over gambling. I did not gamble often anymore till today and I use small amount of money.

What that corrected me was that I stopped thinking about how to make money from gambling. I realized that I was fooling myself that it is not possible and that made me quit problem gambling.
All those while your mental capacity was trying to adapt to pre-programmed resistance, that is why you could notice quickly that you were becoming addicted and also being able to pull out of it on time, many others won't notice that and in the end, they will shift the blame of their addiction on the casinos or others whereas it Individuals responsibility to at least guide your gambling activities and be observant enough to spot addiction tendency early.  Well, it is good that you have gotten over that and be able to enjoy your gambling life again without an addiction setting in and all that it takes to remain free is discipline.

Everything will really be that depending into your mind because if you were really just that mindful into your actions then you will definitely not putting up yourself into such issues. The most common problem on here at the time or moment that you will really be that able to experience is into that addiction that you can possibly be that hooked up but not all people does have that same mentality when it comes to gambling dealing on which there are ones who are really that just playing for fun and not getting addicted but there were those people who are really that doing the opposite. This is why situations will really  be that different on each person and this is why its always been that good that having good self control and awareness on things.

Gambling wont be able to harm you if you are really just that sensible into the things that you've been doing. Everything will really be that in accordance into the actions that you are taking because if you are really that responsible into the actions that you are taking then you wont really be having problems but if you do go to the other side then you will definitely be facing up some issues. Gambling is really just that for fun but if you are that not mindful into the actions you are doing into then you will definitely facing up problems.
Unfortunately, not all people who start to get carried away with gambling realize how much they are attracted to gambling and whether they will be able to stop this desire to play at some point. Often, a person simply does not realize that he has already become a real addicted gambler. At the same time, people around him see this perfectly well and constantly tell him about it. But he does not take this warning seriously. For such people with such a character, psyche and mental abilities, of course, gambling is not only contraindicated, it is simply dangerous for them. Because it becomes extremely difficult for such a player to stop and not play and this becomes a big problem.
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February 11, 2025, 04:20:15 PM
 #120

I read someone saying "habit of gambling" come on man, what the hell is that? If you are treating gambling as an habit the only i can say is you are an addict gambler who only put a masquerade in front to not show what is the reality below the surface.

About the main of the topic, the best you can do is always avoid to bet on full luck things. And resposible exist but only a few people can do that.

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