eXch - instant exchange BTC / LN / XMR / LTC / ETH / ERC20

[mocacinno]

I tested out eXch.cx... Here's my walktrough:

Calculating the exchange rate:



Creating an order:



Letter of Guarantee:



After  confirmation:



My Wallet:



So far, i can say that the whole experience was painless... The exchange rate was good for a no-KYC swap site... Everything went fast and smooth

[icalical]

Hi, I would like to share my experience when using eXch.cx.

About the Interface

At first glance, I like the overall color scheme and the simplistic design, nothing fancy, on point. But if I can change something I would change the top bar (which is now white) to something darker/grayish, to make it less contrast, but that's just preference. As a new user, the first thing I did was reading the F.A.Q, and after I finished reading the F.AQ intuitively when I try to get back to the home page, I click the eXch Logo on the top left, and it did nothing.



Again, this is my personal experience, so I don't mean to say that everyone would have the same experience and preference, but personally I would suggest that the logo click could lead to the homepage. I understand that there is the 'Exchange' button that lead to a homepage, but make both work the same would not be a problem.

Other not very significant thing is that I wish the font size for the amount and address is bigger, the current size is ok, but bigger would be better.

At the bottom of the page, last section before the footer, there is numbers and currencies, I am not sure what that is, but if I would guess, it might the latest transaction processed, but I am not sure what is that, so my suggestion is to give tittle or just small text at the top of it what is that actually.




That's all for the Interface.


About the Transaction Experience

So, I am about to swap Litecoin to Bitcoin, I initially want to use Lightning Network then there is a tick box 'Open a Channel', I checked it.



Then after I click exchange, there is a warning, about additional fees of 0.00001, I didn't know about it beforehand.



I think there are some people like me, that doesn't know requesting a node channel would require additional cost, I think it will be better if this was written on the checkbox explanation.

After I read that warning, I was trying to cancel the transaction, but I don't know how and I can't find any instruction on doing it. I worries in the possibility that if I just open a new transaction with the same address without checking the open node channel, it will still be considered as the previous transaction in which I requested node channel and I will be charged with additional fee.

I think there will be other possible scenario in which your customer mistakenly input the wrong refund address, or the transaction amount. If there is any way to cancel the transaction then I guess it's not easily found so I cant find it. If there is noway to immediately/intentionally cancel the transaction request, then I guess you could explain how long is the timespan before a transaction request is expired so users can request different transaction with the same address.

After that I choose to use different address that is not a lightning network, so just Bitcoin network, I choose the Medium confirmation time with 0.00008486 BTC fee, and it's fast enough for me, without any problem whatsoever.

So for the transaction is overall well, it's fast enough for almost for everyone I think. Not instantaneous like when swapping on other exchange, on other exchange we still need to wait for withdrawal confirmation by the exchange and then network confirmation which could be much longer, and the risk of those exchange holding our funds for whatever reason. Not to mention that eXch doesn't required any document. For me, and I think many people that don't do daily trading and speculating on crypto, the limited cryptocurrency supported is not a problem.

The final verdict for me, I would use this exchange again, and will recommend this to others.

[eXch]

So, I am about to swap Litecoin to Bitcoin, I initially want to use Lightning Network then there is a tick box 'Open a Channel', I checked it.

Then after I click exchange, there is a warning, about additional fees of 0.00001, I didn't know about it beforehand.

I think there are some people like me, that doesn't know requesting a node channel would require additional cost, I think it will be better if this was written on the checkbox explanation.

There is a way to know about that fee before creating an order by clicking on 'Calculate' first:



Anyway, not sure why you assumed that channel opening might be free of cost, since it's an on-chain operation.

We did perform a market analysis before deploying this feature and there are abolutely no services that would open a channel to you automatically at no costs.

The price we have defined is far less than service's used in Electrum for submarine swaps, therefore we have the most accessible price as for today.

After I read that warning, I was trying to cancel the transaction, but I don't know how and I can't find any instruction on doing it. I worries in the possibility that if I just open a new transaction with the same address without checking the open node channel, it will still be considered as the previous transaction in which I requested node channel and I will be charged with additional fee.

I think there will be other possible scenario in which your customer mistakenly input the wrong refund address, or the transaction amount. If there is any way to cancel the transaction then I guess it's not easily found so I cant find it. If there is noway to immediately/intentionally cancel the transaction request, then I guess you could explain how long is the timespan before a transaction request is expired so users can request different transaction with the same address.

To cancel an order just abandon its page and it will be cancelled automatically.

Each order is completely isolated from another. In your case, creating another order with the same invoice but without a channel request would be safe, because our system process all orders separately and doesn't share any information between orders even when an address exists in multiple orders.

[icalical]

So, I am about to swap Litecoin to Bitcoin, I initially want to use Lightning Network then there is a tick box 'Open a Channel', I checked it.

Then after I click exchange, there is a warning, about additional fees of 0.00001, I didn't know about it beforehand.

I think there are some people like me, that doesn't know requesting a node channel would require additional cost, I think it will be better if this was written on the checkbox explanation.

There is a way to know about that fee before creating an order by clicking on 'Calculate' first:



Anyway, not sure why you assumed that channel opening might be free of cost, since it's an on-chain operation.

We did perform a market analysis before deploying this feature and there are abolutely no services that would open a channel to you automatically at no costs.

The price we have defined is far less than service's used in Electrum for submarine swaps, therefore we have the most accessible price as for today.

Yeah, this is actually my first time using exchange like eXch, that has channel opening feature, I usually just use the generic (non-automated) centralized exchanges, so it's purely my lack of knowledge that make me assume it's without cost. And I know about the 'Calculate' feature, but I thought the additional fee for opening node channel is not included in that calculation. Thanks for clarifying.

[blue Snow]

I just wrote the ann translation into my local board: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5468375.0
I would be pleased if there were members from Indonesians who want to discuss eXch exchange there.

the fact that there is no need to connect a wallet as with other DEXs.

Yes, that exactly though. This is one of the advantages we should use eXch exchange.
Many people have doubts about connecting wallets to DEX because of incidents their wallets being hacked after being connected.

We don't need anything here, we don't need to register, login, and connect our wallet. This is a perfect breakthrough from the exchange which doesn't exist yet besides eXch.

[Rikafip]

So, since I needed some LTC and had to test eXch, this was a perfect opportunity to give it a go. First time with smaller amount though just to see how things work.

Process is pretty simple and straightforward, as I entered the currency I want to exchange (BTC), the amount I want to change and currency I need (LTC).  I clicked on "calculate" to see the amount I was supposed to get and since everything looked ok, I proceeded with the exchange.



I sent the bitcoin to designated BTC address (since I wasn't in a hurry I used low fee), 5-6 minutes later BTC arrived to eXch address and few minutes more passed before LTC appeared in my wallet. Easy peasy.






Overall it was a straighforward and fast experience (tbh faster than I thought it will be) and I don't think that even total newbs could have any issues with the procedure  (at least I couldn't see them). One thing I would like to see is support for more popular alts like for example BNB which is popular and often used on the market.

Anyway, I will definitely use it again!

[LoyceV]

@Rikafip: if you want to hide the addresses, you should hide the ORDER number too. Or click "Remove data". And the exact amount makes it easy to find too.

[Rikafip]

@Rikafip: if you want to hide the addresses, you should hide the ORDER number too. Or click "Remove data". And the exact amount makes it easy to find too.

Cheers, updated. But tbh, I wasn't really trying too hard to hide it either so no real harm done.

[examplens]

@Rikafip: if you want to hide the addresses, you should hide the ORDER number too. Or click "Remove data". And the exact amount makes it easy to find too.

mocacinno did an even simpler thing 
he blurred the addresses and amounts, while the order link in the browser was very clearly visible. [post] You don't even have to search, just enter the link

I am really of the opinion that perhaps we are burdening ourselves too much with hiding transactions, especially when they are this small and for the purpose of testing.

[mocacinno]

@Rikafip: if you want to hide the addresses, you should hide the ORDER number too. Or click "Remove data". And the exact amount makes it easy to find too.

mocacinno did an even simpler thing 
he blurred the addresses and amounts, while the order link in the browser was very clearly visible. [post] You don't even have to search, just enter the link

I am really of the opinion that perhaps we are burdening ourselves too much with hiding transactions, especially when they are this small and for the purpose of testing.

true... I blurred out some data out of habit... But then i noticed i left the QR code intact, and i didn't blur out the order number in the url... But then again, i was exchanging some spare change that could easily be tracked down to me anyways, an exchange isn't a mixer... I didn't bother to re-upload the images completely unblurred nor did i bother to blur some extra data (and re-upload).

[eXch]

In this post we will cover a popular scam tendency that is practiced by many instant exchanges called "shotgun KYC" or "ToS-scam".

ToS-scam is when an exchange lures an unsuspecting user to perform accountless exchange where a user isn't notified or warned about exchange's AML/KYC policies in a clear way (similar to fine print frauds), where a high risk-score would lead into a permanent loss of user's funds in case a user fails to provide extensive KYC and SoF (source of funds) information.

We consider this hostile practice a direct attack to cryptocurrency fungibility in general and warn all users against using such services.

Here is a clear example of an innocent user who lost their legally earned funds to an instant exchange that is known for practicing shotgun KYC with absolutely inhumane and tyrannical behaviour:



[oshi.at mirror] [talkimg mirror]

(Source: Bestchange, an exchange monitoring service that turned AML/KYC ToS-scams popular by encouraging exchanges to such practices and defending them)

Don't become a victim of such services! Always verify terms of service of an instant exchange prior to sending them any funds. If someone tries to sell you the idea of this being "normal", know that you are being fooled and misinformed on purpose. These people either don't understand cryptocurrency ethics and principles or it's very likely that they are paid to spread misinformation.

Moreover, a cryptocurrency-only exchange is not required by any means to comply with AML and FATF regulations. There is also a very misleading propaganda that all exchanges must comply, however, it's only true for cryptocurrency-fiat exchanges.

[Z-tight]

Don't become a victim of such services! Always verify terms of service of an instant exchange prior to sending them any funds.

It is important to do that, and i just checked the terms of service of the instant exchange in your post above and it is really voluminous (and may scare people from reading it), though i personally think is uneccessarily bulky for a crypto-only swap exchange. Anyway it is written in their TOS that they do cooperate with LE and can confiscate people's funds, so it is more like: we don't ask for kyc, but we can lock your funds and ask for it at anytime, if you want privacy, you should stay away from services like this.

[paid2]

In this post we will cover a popular scam tendency that is practiced by many instant exchanges called "shotgun KYC" or "ToS-scam".

-snip-

Thank you, it's very interesting.

In my opinion would have merited a dedicated topic.

This strategy is becoming more and more common, and few people talk about it accurately. For example, even the Antpool mining pool has just started to impose KYC on their users...  

[eXch]

Service update announcement

We now operate with two BTC pools - mixed and aggregated.

Mixed pool was the only pool we had before and serves as a mixing technique itself to preserve privacy. It consists of providing non-reusable addresses for deposits then forwarding them to other orders.

Aggregated pool will help to avoid suspension risks for users who interact with major centralized exchanges and services. We guarantee risk-fee coins coming from it. However, we always recommend Bisq to major exchanges.

Users are able to select which pool to use during order creation. For more information please read our Q&A section at https://exch.cx/faq#aggregation and one of our previous replies https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=577207.msg62692711#msg62692711 in this thread.

[dkbit98]

We now operate with two BTC pools - mixed and aggregated.

I don't know what to think about this because I don't like to see bitcoin being divided and there is always a chance of getting different prices, higher aggregates and lower mixed.
After doing some testing I didn't see any difference in price on exch, but I was wondering if this could happen or not?

We guarantee risk-fee coins coming from it. However, we always recommend Bisq to major exchanges.

You can guarantee as much as you like, but centralized exchanges can still confiscate coins whenever they want  

[eXch]

We now operate with two BTC pools - mixed and aggregated.

I don't know what to think about this because I don't like to see bitcoin being divided and there is always a chance of getting different prices, higher aggregates and lower mixed.
After doing some testing I didn't see any difference in price on exch, but I was wondering if this could happen or not?

[...]

There may be also a third option if we make 2 separated pools for mixed and aggregated coins and let users select which pool to use for their output, however it's a lot more complicated to implement and maintain.

Maybe this compromise would work best for everyone, if you can handle extra complexity.

Nobody likes, however the reality is that most mixers advertised on this forum do that and most users seem to be fine with the concept of separate pools (i.e. mixers that send you coins from exchanges and proclaim them as "clean"). eXch is an exchange and it's mandatory for us to have a static Bitcoin address, however, in fact nothing changed for those who prefer our original operation mode., since the "mixed" pool remain there.

There won't be any cost impact at all.

You can guarantee as much as you like, but centralized exchanges can still confiscate coins whenever they want 

You've misread the whole statement. There is no part in the whole paragraph where we guarantee someone won't be able to confiscate your coins. We only guarantee a good risk-score in *our* aggregated pool.

[dkbit98]

There won't be any cost impact at all.

Good to hear that.
btw are you using other third party exchanges for aggregated pool?

You've misread the whole statement. There is no part in the whole paragraph where we guarantee someone won't be able to confiscate your coins. We only guarantee a good risk-score in *our* aggregated pool.

I know you can't guarantee what happens on some other website aka exchange  
Let me clarify what I wanted to say with one real life example I heard from our local board recently.
Guy was doing some trading and he was using centralized exchange for this purpose, he accepted coin from other guy on his exchange account and everything was fine in 2021, other guy received fiat money in this trade.
Centralized exchange was used in this case to avoid getting coins that are connected with some hacks, scams, etc, and nothing was wrong in 2021.
One year later in 2022 he gets a letter from authorities that those coins are coming from scam, and in 2023 (two years later) police confiscate totally different coins from this guy.
They make the rules so they can do whatever they want  

[eXch]

btw are you using other third party exchanges for aggregated pool?

No, we have developed our own algorithm for that.

I know you can't guarantee what happens on some other website aka exchange  
Let me clarify what I wanted to say with one real life example I heard from our local board recently.
Guy was doing some trading and he was using centralized exchange for this purpose, he accepted coin from other guy on his exchange account and everything was fine in 2021, other guy received fiat money in this trade.
Centralized exchange was used in this case to avoid getting coins that are connected with some hacks, scams, etc, and nothing was wrong in 2021.
One year later in 2022 he gets a letter from authorities that those coins are coming from scam, and in 2023 (two years later) police confiscate totally different coins from this guy.
They make the rules so they can do whatever they want  

An unfortunate story that could happen to anyone independently of a coin source, since it directly depends on education and competence of the law enforcement circle performing investigation. However it has little or no relevance compared to benefits that our aggregated pool provides. I will still repeat - we guarantee risk-free coins in the aggregated pool (including considering risks mentioned in your story). Anyone with access to appropriate risk score screening platforms can verify our address and see what sources our pool contains and that our guarantee is not just words. Feel free to ask more information via private communication channels where we can provide more details.

[GazetaBitcoin]

I was thinking if eXch would think to revamp this thread a bit.

I am personally not a big fan of that new tendency of graphic design used in some threads where one must scroll through large images full of visual distraction to find useful information, so I prefer text-only threads mostly. However, it's true that our OP here can be improved and icopress already provided us with a reasonable thread design that we will eventually update to after some editing.

Hey eXch, I just noticed the new shape of your OP and it looks very nice!

Other than that, I also noticed that you added two translations to OP. I have two mentions here: (1) would you like to have your topic translated in more foreign languages?; (2) the Portuguese translation is made for the old format of OP, thus sabotag3x (the author of the translation) should update it.

[sabotag3x]

(2) the Portuguese translation is made for the old format of OP, thus sabotag3x (the author of the translation) should update it.

It's a review/discussion thread, not a translation.. but thanks for the mention, I'll translate the OP and add it on top of the review.. it will look better.