[ANN][KARM] Karma / ₭ / X11

[karmala]

oh man.... Kosmost is back. I cant believe it. What was that a ride back then. All the best

KarmaKaguy

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[Alphi]

Why should we change anything on KARMA in the first place...

because Karma is caught in a catch 22 situation (or is that Catch 44?)

1)
At 1 satoshi its is impossible for any coin to have liquidity on trading markets because the price cannot move up easily and cannot move down.
Karma was only tradeable when it was being traded against Litecoins in the 22-100+ litoshi range.

add to that.. if the price ever does go up it will simply be knocked back down again by dumpers who stole the coins from Cryptsy and other hacks.

2)
As a currency Karma is as useful as Zimbabwe dollars. A loaf of bread costs about K 76,900 at today's prices.

3) the people who hold the most Karma are not contributing to the community in any way whatsoever.. not even saying hello let alone using their karma for good purposes. They have either abandoned the coin or are simply too greedy to even spread goodwill let alone the good message about Karma. A community that does not even live up to its mission statement only discourages other people from joining the community.

4) with a block reward of 10,000,000 (it started out at 510,000,000 i.e. 51X the current rate) it is almost pointless to mine karma because miners benefit least of all from any increase in the value of Karma. It's actually easier and cheaper to mine another coin and then sell that to buy Karma. That means that the network is far less secure than it could be.

[Alphi]

Truthfully when we had hiro and brainstormed to change the supply from 1000:1 or 100:1 ratio. it was my understanding that it can not be done without messing the previous tx history. So if the main goal here is to reduce supply, than thats an automatic swap to a brand new chain. cant really be done on hard fork. unless some one can find a better dev? soopy , hiro and MRC, three devs said i cant be a hard fork.

Therefore keeping the same supply and drastically dropping new blocks rewards will def make the top rich list gods of this coin. Very tricky situation.

Hence why no one really did anything with this coins. I talked to many people through out the time and it just doest seam feasible and i couldn't find anyone up to help change the codes. you either stick with the same setting and improve things that wont effect previous txs like we did going from scrypt to x11. changing block difficulty, etc.

or do a swap to something new. but then you gotta worry for how to do it fairly.

Tough position.

I hear you.. I am also a developer with 15 years experience.. just better with C# than C++ so not as useful with programming wallet functionality.

I've had another think about this and those other devs are right.. dividing the coins by 1000 with a hard fork would cause an accounting nightmare.

However it would be theoretically possible to create an entirely separate block-chain and preserve everyone balances/1000 at a given point in time.

If you use the same code base with a few minor tweaks it is possible to use the exact same addresses, keys and wallets.

this means that one could in effect create a parallel blockchain by premining 76 million or so coins and then automatically send those coins to the exact same addresses in the same quantities (divided by 1000) as they are in the original blockchain. Rather than just a simple premine however, this would be a mathematically provable & transparent, even & fair distribution of the new coins.

In effect the distribution would be exactly the same in percentage terms and users would only need to copy their old wallet.dat over to the new client in order to get access to their coins.

this essentially would be a snapshot clone of the existing block chain at a fixed point in time rather than a fork. To avoid confusion it would need to be called something else .. like Karma 2.0 and the community would have to coordinate with themselves and the exchanges to make it work.

One could even take this idea a step further and blockade known stolen coin addresses and redirect those coins to a new fund for community development.

Theoretically this can all be done but it would be quite a bit of programming effort.

The upside is that everyone could move onto the new block-chain and benefit (even if they aren't able to participate initially) and we could tailor the new coin to better meet the needs of the community.
The downside is that the new block chain could be rejected by the community and could end up being a complete waste of time and resources.

The other alternative would be to start completely fresh coin with no premine and just let those people who are keen on developing the community, mine to their hearts content.

[bitwho]

Truthfully when we had hiro and brainstormed to change the supply from 1000:1 or 100:1 ratio. it was my understanding that it can not be done without messing the previous tx history. So if the main goal here is to reduce supply, than thats an automatic swap to a brand new chain. cant really be done on hard fork. unless some one can find a better dev? soopy , hiro and MRC, three devs said i cant be a hard fork.

Therefore keeping the same supply and drastically dropping new blocks rewards will def make the top rich list gods of this coin. Very tricky situation.

Hence why no one really did anything with this coins. I talked to many people through out the time and it just doest seam feasible and i couldn't find anyone up to help change the codes. you either stick with the same setting and improve things that wont effect previous txs like we did going from scrypt to x11. changing block difficulty, etc.

or do a swap to something new. but then you gotta worry for how to do it fairly.

Tough position.

I hear you.. I am also a developer with 15 years experience.. just better with C# than C++ so not as useful with programming wallet functionality.

I've had another think about this and those other devs are right.. dividing the coins by 1000 with a hard fork would cause an accounting nightmare.

However it would be theoretically possible to create an entirely separate block-chain and preserve everyone balances/1000 at a given point in time.

If you use the same code base with a few minor tweaks it is possible to use the exact same addresses, keys and wallets.

this means that one could in effect create a parallel blockchain by premining 76 million or so coins and then automatically send those coins to the exact same addresses in the same quantities (divided by 1000) as they are in the original blockchain. Rather than just a simple premine however, this would be a mathematically provable & transparent, even & fair distribution of the new coins.

In effect the distribution would be exactly the same in percentage terms and users would only need to copy their old wallet.dat over to the new client in order to get access to their coins.

this essentially would be a snapshot clone of the existing block chain at a fixed point in time rather than a fork. To avoid confusion it would need to be called something else .. like Karma 2.0 and the community would have to coordinate with themselves and the exchanges to make it work.

One could even take this idea a step further and blockade known stolen coin addresses and redirect those coins to a new fund for community development.

Theoretically this can all be done but it would be quite a bit of programming effort.

The upside is that everyone could move onto the new block-chain and benefit (even if they aren't able to participate initially) and we could tailor the new coin to better meet the needs of the community.
The downside is that the new block chain could be rejected by the community and could end up being a complete waste of time and resources.

The other alternative would be to start completely fresh coin with no premine and just let those people who are keen on developing the community, mine to their hearts content.

a snap shot. yeah theoretically that would make sense. maybe doing this snap shot to even a bitcoin 2.0 like ether /counter party etc. i too think the miners should go. not sure if karma can be secured again.

[luckytimes]

The Karma coin wallet on Yobit is working again Thank goodness! I cannot wait to see Karma grow in value soon.

[endchat]

Swap: No. Too much "bad" Karma. This is a fresh start. We all have Karma. Some of us have lots of Karma (like myself) and don't really want to lose it. But we also must think about the big picture and how performing a swap might severely hurt (or kill) Karma in future as those stolen coins are also swapped with the good ones.

Everyone here will have a chance to buy Karma before everyone else catches on to it. (But the release will be publicly-announced here. And everyone will have an opportunity to buy cheap coins and make up for their losses. Current market cap at which buyers can be found is about $2,000,000. And that's without adding any value. The new market cap will start out at about $300,000 with plenty of room for growth. To the MOON!)

This is fucking UNACCEPTABLE!!!!! Everybody will LOSE their MONEY!!!! THIS REALLY SMELLS LIKE SCAMMING PEOPLE!!!! I'VE KARMA COINS AND I WANT TO SEE REAL SWAP/ REAL FAIR SWAP AND NOT YET A SECOND SCAM SWAP!!!

SAME

[kosmost]

[New "Karma swap" Proposal Below]

The ideas above seem very feasible. Thanks, Alphi and Bitwho for your input on that.

However, we all know that we don't have the resources to do those (preferred) things, which is why a few days ago I posted a plan to re-do the x11 wallet and pay for it myself.

I thought it would be best to re-do the current wallet with better specs. But when I saw how many bad coins there are just waiting in wallets (with the biggest wallet being a stolen exchange wallet that has recently had activity) I thought it was better to make a fresh start.

With limited resources, a platform made sense. Having researched all the platforms, I thought Ethereum made the most sense.

So considering our lack of resources I have the following proposal. It's probably stupid to some of you, but at this point we don't have much choice. (And again, only 7 pages of posts were written in the past 18 months. An average of one page every 2.5 months. Honestly, not much was happening before I showed up, and Bitwho still wants to hang on to the keys in case someone else wants to review the coin in 2018 or whenever.)

1) I will facilitate a fresh start for Karma holders that don't mind up to half of our supply being stolen, in a new coin on the Ethereum blockchain that one could swap their Karma coin for at a rate of 100,000:1

1 million total coins, with whatever is left over being for sale on the open market.

2) The coin will be called Good Coin and represent all of the good things that can be done with cryptocurrency and keeping in line with Karma's original values. A fresh coin may make it easier for Karma swap holders to recover their investments, despite the possibility of lots of bad coins.

3) Users that have Karma would go to the [ANN] page to get the instructions on how to do the swap

4) The swap would be good for 3 months, starting from June 19, 2017

5) the user would set up a new wallet for the new coin with the instructions provided. (I will handle the wallet stuff.)

6) They would then send their Karma to a burn address, then post their transaction hash as a reply, as well as the amount of Karma sent.

7) A volunteer or two will be needed to put all of the replies into a simple spreadsheet. This person(s) will be the party solely responsible for the integrity of the swap.

There's no need to wait until the end of the period to get your Good Coins. First come, first served. The Good Coins will be sent within 48 hours of the transaction.

9) In the meanwhile, an exchange would be set up for Good Coin for everyone in crypto to buy/sell it

10) A volunteer will be needed to update the OP with information about Good Coin, where to buy it, how to mine it etc. The community would then begin to grow the coin and hopefully watch their coins grow substantially in value. With a very limited supply of coins, this could easily happen.

For those who say that is doesn't matter if billions of coins are in the swap, this is your chance to prove it.

(For mining, merged mining with Ethereum, with a block reward of n. Someone would have to figure out the math. Right now the average block time is 15s https://ethstats.net/ - see more historical info (and comparisons) at https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/confirmationtime-eth-doge.html It's about 2m blocks per year, so if we assume 5 years of mining then it could be 0.02 Good per Ethereum block found. We can provide this reward to anyone mining Ethereum. With no additional power needed to get the reward, miners may accept it and the distribution could be more even than it is now)

A fresh start, despite all of the bad coins that may be in the swap.

Like I said, perhaps it's a stupid idea but it's a thought. I also want to be able to swap my coins.

[LemonAndFriesOne]

Scrap the old karma, both the token and the original.
Do a fair swap for both token and old karma to the new karma.
Start fresh from the beginning and avoid the mistakes from those two.

[kosmost]

Scrap the old karma, both the token and the original.
Do a fair swap for both token and old karma to the new karma.
Start fresh from the beginning and avoid the mistakes from those two.

On X11?

Sounds easy enough, but who will develop it? No one here will do it.

[CryptoTraderGuildGM]

[New "Karma swap" Proposal Below]

The ideas above seem very feasible. Thanks, Alphi and Bitwho for your input on that.

However, we all know that we don't have the resources to do those (preferred) things, which is why a few days ago I posted a plan to re-do the x11 wallet and pay for it myself.

I thought it would be best to re-do the current wallet with better specs. But when I saw how many bad coins there are just waiting in wallets (with the biggest wallet being a stolen exchange wallet that has recently had activity) I thought it was better to make a fresh start.

With limited resources, a platform made sense. Having researched all the platforms, I thought Ethereum made the most sense.

So considering our lack of resources I have the following proposal. It's probably stupid to some of you, but at this point we don't have much choice. (And again, only 7 pages of posts were written in the past 18 months. An average of one page every 2.5 months. Honestly, not much was happening before I showed up, and Bitwho still wants to hang on to the keys in case someone else wants to review the coin in 2018 or whenever.)

1) I will facilitate a fresh start for Karma holders that don't mind up to half of our supply being stolen, in a new coin on the Ethereum blockchain that one could swap their Karma coin for at a rate of 100,000:1

1 million total coins, with whatever is left over being for sale on the open market.

2) The coin will be called Good Coin and represent all of the good things that can be done with cryptocurrency and keeping in line with Karma's original values. A fresh coin may make it easier for Karma swap holders to recover their investments, despite the possibility of lots of bad coins.

3) Users that have Karma would go to the [ANN] page to get the instructions on how to do the swap

4) The swap would be good for 3 months, starting from June 19, 2017

5) the user would set up a new wallet for the new coin with the instructions provided. (I will handle the wallet stuff.)

6) They would then send their Karma to a burn address, then post their transaction hash as a reply, as well as the amount of Karma sent.

7) A volunteer or two will be needed to put all of the replies into a simple spreadsheet. This person(s) will be the party solely responsible for the integrity of the swap.

There's no need to wait until the end of the period to get your Good Coins. First come, first served. The Good Coins will be sent within 48 hours of the transaction.

9) In the meanwhile, an exchange would be set up for Good Coin for everyone in crypto to buy/sell it

10) A volunteer will be needed to update the OP with information about Good Coin, where to buy it, how to mine it etc. The community would then begin to grow the coin and hopefully watch their coins grow substantially in value. With a very limited supply of coins, this could easily happen.

For those who say that is doesn't matter if billions of coins are in the swap, this is your chance to prove it.

(For mining, merged mining with Ethereum, with a block reward of n. Someone would have to figure out the math. Right now the average block time is 15s https://ethstats.net/ - see more historical info (and comparisons) at https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/confirmationtime-eth-doge.html It's about 2m blocks per year, so if we assume 5 years of mining then it could be 0.02 Good per Ethereum block found. We can provide this reward to anyone mining Ethereum. With no additional power needed to get the reward, miners may accept it and the distribution could be more even than it is now)

A fresh start, despite all of the bad coins that may be in the swap.

Like I said, perhaps it's a stupid idea but it's a thought. I also want to be able to swap my coins.

This is way better.

For me the unification and revival of the community of KARMA holders and believers come first and foremost. X11, KTN we are all attracted by the principles it stand for.

If the community can revise the above suggestions of kosmost so that it will be MORE FAIR, MORE PRACTICAL, MORE USEABLE in the long run. I can help with these efforts.


THESE are what I will be looking for the new plans:

1. NEW PLATFORM (to be voted by community)
2. NEW TOTAL COINS (")
3. ACCEPTANCE OF BOTH KARMA X11 and KTN for swap(voluntary swaps)
4. NEW THREAD
5. SOLID WORKING TRUSTWORTHY TEAM
6. TOTAL KILLING OF ALL KARMA X11 backend support and markets.
7. KARMA named new coin

The absence of any one of the above 7 critical items would only spell disaster and a failure waiting to happen.

Good Karma to everyone who cares.

-east

[kosmost]

The absence of any one of the above 7 critical items would only spell disaster and a failure waiting to happen.

Success cannot be codified, unfortunately.

You can have none of those things and still have a successful coin, or a couple, or a completely different set of things.

[bitwho]

haha please dont kill x-11 if your going to have an other coin.

east. you unnecessarily went around and asked few exchanges to drop karmax11 and add your token. which were two completely different thing and they could have co-existed...

lets not do the same for karmax11 again.

unless i see a good enough proposal of kosmost i am going to keep my coins in this chain.

[kosmost]

unless i see a good enough proposal of kosmost i am going to keep my coins in this chain.

There are two things for me to consider:

1) what's good for me, personally

2) what's good for the community

Personally, I want to do a swap. I have lots of coins and I also want to recover money that I have "lost" (even though technically one does not gain/lose until one sells)

However, I don't think that would be best for the community. My proposals are not what I want, but what I think would be best for Karma overall and Karma's future (to get Karma in the hands of more people, which nobody else is thinking about right now).

Make Karma Great Again

Call me Batman. I know that sacrifices need to be made sometimes if we want to have a better outcome. Many of us (vocal people) here don't realize that. Perhaps they can't see the forest for the trees, I don't know.

But it is obvious that Karma lacks vision. It is badly needed. I know most of us aren't senior citizens, but what's wrong with change and keeping up with the times? Why re-hash the old stuff? We can still keep the same vision while brining Karma into the hands of many, many more people. What's wrong with that possibility rather than what we have now?

We can't just have a coin sit around like it's been doing. Ok, so we do another X11... and then what? That automatically makes people care about Karma again? They will start posting again? How about NEW investors? Without pumping a fresh vision and new direction for Karma, it may just be a waste of time and resources.

Karma on Ethereum is bold, fresh, and it's the future. There's no way you can gain momentum with investors (speculators) and gain their confidence by re-doing the wallet. Yawn.

Karma's had bad coins ever since day 1. How can they trust the integrity of the new coin supply? This is why it needs to have a new name if there's nothing else going for it but a simple re-do that no one wants to do.

And right now there is no "Good Coin" or "Good... " anything. Karma could be the Good coin, and at least that's something different, to at least symbolically step away from all the bad actors in crypto. A re-branding is also free press, to introduce the coin once again to the wider crypto community. That alone could increase the market cap 1-5 million.

[kosmost]

I want to add something that should be obvious to many (but perhaps isn't)

Most of the people viewing this thread and most of the Karma community have never said a single word. They are lurkers, but still interested in what's going on. This thread has over 500,000 views across some 400 pages, an average of about 1,200 people viewing per page. Only a few of us actually post.

People tend to be more aggressive and vocal when they are upset. We cannot assume that because a couple of people have  expressed anger towards a certain initiative that they speak for everyone. They don't.

You can take a vote all you want but that's not really how successful entities operate. You need a leader with vision who has actually had previous successes. That person has a board of advisors, but ultimately the decision to act is theirs alone because they are the ones who are responsible for that decision.

Leaders do not consider the opinions of angry people over those who aren't. In fact, it's a sign of irrational thinking. (Already, two people on this thread think that I want to do an ICO, even though it is clearly stated)

When something happens with a company people look to the CEO. What's he going to say? "It wasn't my decision.. it was the board's! or the decision of my customers". No. He is the one that will take responsibility for what happens. That's why he is the one that makes the final decision.

It's how every successful entity has operated for hundreds of years from the USA on down to a small business.

You can take a vote all you want but my point is that MOST of the Karma community won't say anything. They'll just watch.

And that's why democracy doesn't work. The people that are happy with the way things are don't vote.

Most of the people that want me to lead won't say anything. However, the people that might feel strongly about it are sure to speak up. Don't fall for this logical fallacy. The marketplace is the real vote of confidence, as economics will tell you.

-Volume increased more than 4,000% when I showed up.
-Activity on this thread has increased about 16,700% since I showed up a few days ago
-The community is finally starting to come together again  <--- wow!
-We are actually talking about how to make Karma great again
-Some real plans are starting to crystallize

Yeah.. 'evil, waltzing kosmost' who wants to break things

[kosmost]

Am I really the only person very, very uncomfortable with the MintPal wallet address being kept secret? It's on the public blockchain, yet we can't know the address? It was Karma's main market, and often the #1 coin on that market.

Seriously? No one else is bothered by this?

Are people more upset at me for suggesting (and asking for feedback on) a move to a platform than basic information about a wallet with MANY billions of Karma coins in it that does not belong to the person who has it?

This is really amazing when you think about it. "The coins don't belong to anyone" (but I am keeping them) + "You can't know the address (that's a secret, for a secret reason)"

Are you sure that I can't be trusted, Bitwho? I have already proven that I can, with the safe return of 100% of 10 billion coins from the community. The process was transparent from start to finish, with all information about the coins and address being made available to everyone.

How are those coins doing, by the way? Oh, I forgot. The address is a secret. And I can't ask why because that would be spamming! lol

What if more people demanded to know what the address is? Would you tell us then? Or would your reason for not wanting to do so still be "I can tell you because...well, because! I will burn them one day and I've never bothered to Google how to do it"?

[the-A-Man]

Does anyone have a working wallet on their computer?
I need a copy of a .Conf file with current nodes so i can get connections.
I would like to move my coins off of YoBit.

Any help would be appreciated.

[kosmost]

Does anyone have a working wallet on their computer?
I need a copy of a .Conf file with current nodes so i can get connections.
I would like to move my coins off of YoBit.

Any help would be appreciated.

Hi. Here is what you can do:

[Note: back up your wallet.dat file before you do the following. It is in your appdata\roaming\karma\ folder. And just to be safe, you might as well make a copy of that, too]

1. Close the wallet, then create a text file: c:\users\YOUR-NAME\appdata\roaming\karma\karma.conf (or on linux, ~/.karma/karma.conf) and paste the following into it:

addnode=67.173.120.250:9432
addnode=91.153.109.149:49522
addnode=78.214.167.61:11081
addnode=69.130.152.117:51308
addnode=96.230.110.235:9333
addnode=128.173.185.170:9333
addnode=45.55.176.26:9333

2. Delete everything in %appdata%/karma except wallet.dat and karma.conf

3. (re)start the Karma wallet.

[CryptoTraderGuildGM]

haha please dont kill x-11 if your going to have an other coin.

east. you unnecessarily went around and asked few exchanges to drop karmax11 and add your token. which were two completely different thing and they could have co-existed...

lets not do the same for karmax11 again.

unless i see a good enough proposal of kosmost i am going to keep my coins in this chain.

bitwho, I don't know where did you get the idea that I "went around and asked a few exchanges to drop Karma X11", you will need a proof to say that, a written request coming from me would be nice to prove what you so far is claiming.

In fact when Cryptopia (the only one I knew that did drop KARMA X11 while we were doing the swap) did that, we (me and Alex was baffled), It is a chance for them to have a live KARMA market since some may want to buy KARMA (As I did) to exchange for KTN.

I personally don't have any contact with any exchanges. KTN was listed in MERCATOX due to the effort of a KTN holder.

So it's your false accusation that is really UNNECESSARY.

BTW, When do you plan to complete the return of my KARMA from mintpal??? I have been messaging you about it but you always ignore it. Why is that??? I was hoping you would act to complete the return of those Billions of KARMA or announce how the community can use it.... do you have any other plans with them?

If kosmost would investigate the address, will he find all those KARMA from MINTPAL UNTOUCHED?? You alone has the access to it. Right?

-east

[kosmost]

BTW When do you plan to complete the return of my KARMA from mintpal BTW?? I have been messaging you about it but you always ignore it. Why is that???

-east

Because it's a secret. And the reason why it's a secret is... another secret.

[the-A-Man]

Holy crap that was a fast response

So just to be clear, I don't need any startup commands, just the nodes?