[XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency

[shinjikenny123]

Are you ready guys?  

[WRed]

Hello
Please help solve the problem:
Downloaded blockchain from mega and bitmonerod.exe closing with error:

Code:

2014-Jul-11 11:34:42.384489 Initializing core...
2014-Jul-11 11:34:42.394489 Loading blockchain...
2014-Jul-11 11:34:51.404502 ERROR C:\temp\monero\git-experimental\bitmonero-0.8.8update-x64\src\common/boost_serialization_helper.h:82 Exception at [unserialize_obj_from_file], what=vector<T> too long
2014-Jul-11 11:34:51.414502 Can't load blockchain storage from file, generating genesis block.
2014-Jul-11 11:34:51.464502 ERROR ..\..\src\cryptonote_core\blockchain_storage.cpp:74 Failed to add genesis block to blockchain
2014-Jul-11 11:34:51.474502 ERROR ..\..\src\cryptonote_core\cryptonote_core.cpp:119 Failed to initialize blockchain storage
2014-Jul-11 11:34:51.474502 ERROR ..\..\src\daemon\daemon.cpp:164 Failed to initialize core
2014-Jul-11 11:34:51.484502 Mining has been stopped, 0 finished

bitmonerod x64, Windows 7 x64 - same problem on 3 comp.

[shinjikenny123]

Are you ready guys? 

lol i hope you are right. 

anyway i really dont think it will stay long under 0.003, but time will tell (and mostly im wrong ). Has somone an opinion on the avergage minting price right now when using cloud service? Is there a need for "insider" software or is it possible to mine profitable with the software that is already out without modifying it (just configure)?

i am unsure if i should mine or buy, since i want to hold them anyway..but maybe i can get them cheaper with mining?
already hold some for sure, but want more.

Attention right now is at URO. Let's wait until they're finished with that coin. 

[dreamspark]

lol i hope you are right. 

anyway i really dont think it will stay long under 0.003, but time will tell (and mostly im wrong ). Has somone an opinion on the avergage minting price right now when using cloud service? Is there a need for "insider" software or is it possible to mine profitable with the software that is already out without modifying it (just configure)?

i am unsure if i should mine or buy, since i want to hold them anyway..but maybe i can get them cheaper with mining?
already hold some for sure, but want more.

At this point in time Im almost certain that buying is the most economical solution, while mining is almost certainly at a loss currently unless you have a private miner and already roi'd hardware.

[Rias]

Provide your estimates then, since I can't see a mistake in mine.

I have exact calculations I'd rather not post but I'll do a back of an envelope here.

BCN block reward in coins is about 6400 times the XMR reward. The value of XMR is about 40000 times BCN. Combined these make the BCN reward worth about 16% of the XMR reward. The difficulty of XMR is about 10.5 times the difficulty of BCN. So by these numbers if you do 1/10.5 as much work you can get about 1/6 of the reward. Better to mine BCN. 

This ignores other second order factors such as orphan rate, etc.

Ok, my estimates are (leaving out orphans, block penatlies, etc.):

Daily emission (from minergate.com and monerochain.info):
BCN: 79,200,000
XMR: 23,000

Difficulty (from Bytecoin.org and monerochain.info):
BCN: 103,000,000
XMR: 800,000,000

Price (from Poloniex):
BCN: 0.00000007
XMR: 0.0029

Mining revenue adjusted for the difficulty = (Daily emission / difficulty) * Price:
BCN: 0.0000000846318306326
XMR: 0.0000000868489583333

Difficulty is already adjusted for different block time, so no need to discount on it. This makes XMR a more profitable target for botnet owners. And yesterday when I did the same calculations, XMR price was higher, BCN difficulty 20M lower. That is why it was 10% higher for XMR.

Do you really think that a botnet is just a mining gear? And rape is just a form of sex, right? Anyway, I'm pretty sure that botnet owners don't hold the coins they've mined as there are risks associated with the waiting game and you might have used your botnet for other purposes instead.

Your rape analogy is a bit strained, but to strain it further, if a rape occurs and a child is born, do you continue to associate the child with the rape? Coins are coins, and where they come from doesn't really matter to anyone else. That's what fungibility is all about.

Coins generated are either sold by the miner (almost always in the case of large scale professional miners) or held (sometimes by small scale miners and occasionally by large investors who have their own mining operations). That is the distincton that matters in terms of economics, and even that one doesn't always matter (if there are investors who prefer to buy than mine), as I explained earlier.

What I was trying to say is that botnets should be considered unworthy and frowned upon for CPU coins as they rip off regular miners. And they're illegal by the way.
And yes, if there are a lot of botnet miners selling, the supply side will prevail over the demand and the coin is likely to have a negative trend (recheck XMR price charts of the last week). And this is exactly the thought I've been trying to tell you for the last 4 pages.

[smooth]

Difficulty is already adjusted for different block time, so no need to discount on it. This makes XMR a more profitable target for botnet owners. And yesterday when I did the same calculations, XMR price was higher, BCN difficulty 20M lower. That is why it was 10% higher for XMR.

No you have that exactly wrong. Difficulty tells you how many hashes you have to do (on average) for each block (not per day -- your formula is fundamentally incorrect).

Go back and recalculate with difficulty correctly applied per block and you will get different (correct) results.

Interesting perhaps, BCN difficulty spiked up quite a bit after my previous post (maybe the botnet owners are learning something here), but it is still more profitable than XMR.

And yes, if there are a lot of botnet miners selling, the supply side will prevail over the demand and the coin is likely to have a negative trend (recheck XMR price charts of the last week). And this is exactly the thought I've been trying to tell you for the last 4 pages.

And what I told you is that if you look at almost every single coin chart, it looks the same. Some have botnets, some don't. The trend for almost every coin is generally a slow downtrend, except when there is some sort of spark to speculative interest that drives it up.

This is the nature of mining -- it doesn't really matter who mines the coins or how many people compete to mine, the supply is fixed and constant. What varies (and therefore determines price) is demand.

What I was trying to say is that botnets should be considered unworthy and frowned upon for CPU coins as they rip off regular miners. And they're illegal by the way.

Of course. Nobody is praising botnets here. As long as they exist though, they operate within the same economic laws as any other miners. When I say I consider them to be just another form of mining rig, I mean that in terms of economics, not morality.

[florida.haunted]

Anyway, I'm pretty sure that botnet owners don't hold the coins they've mined as there are risks associated with the waiting game and you might have used your botnet for other purposes instead.

Who knows. It seems that a coin with built in strong privacy and fast growing adoption (at least for an altcoin) might well be something a botnet owner would very much like to use to store wealth or to otherwise conduct business. I might even speculate they prefer to mine XMR over BCN despite the worse immediate economics because they prefer to store wealth in XMR (and trading via an exchange might increase exposure).  But I have no idea really.

My opinion about botnets. Their creators are smarter and more enterprising than average median people. So because of rank distributon biologically proven, total number of botnet creators is small, actually few people in the world, because of Monero is not popular as Bitcoin yet.

So given botnet creators are smart people, their decision about short-term selling is smart too.

Let's look things in the face, currently no coin can compete Bitcoin.

Monero could, but their devs are too sluggish, and the same time do not accept neither help nor critics:
- 32 bit obsolete Windows binaries are still sticky at 1st page this thread
- No newbie's FAQ is ever made (who can support price if not newbies?!)
- Official site has still html markup errors.
- There is no special man to answer newbies questions here officially from face of Monero team.
- Even missives come with 1-2 day delay. This delay is more important than it appears, because time regularity of Monero missives is the ONLY thing Monero devs promise us.

Meanwhile there are some 40 days till LTC/2 block reward happens!!!

This is the ultimate time window, when market decides Monero to live & replace LTC or to die & forget.

[psterryl]

maybe your post got deleted because it was completely useless, and likely untruthful.

"this coin is full of shit and dead now" - not going to waste key strokes responding to that
"i lost every fucking coin in my wallet someone spent those, can't use them anymore" - This is obviously your fault. You either gave your keys file and password to someone, or got hacked, likely with keylogger. This is by no means fault of xmr and could just as easily happened with any other currency.
"move on, don't lose your time and money" - awww, I would ask you to sell me your xmr, but someone already got them =)


Really though, I think you are lying.

i sent the  wallet  to fullypony, they can play with it to see why i had ghost coins in my wallet
they can play with it if they care to see what is happening
when this bug hits some big holder.. coin is far in deep shit..

The problem was that you mined lots of small 'dust' transactions to your wallet address before the minimum send amount was implemented into the pool code. This will result in a transaction that is too large to broadcast when you try to withdraw all your coins because it is taking lots of tiny fractional coin amounts.

The pools are fixed now and core devs are working on automatic transaction splitting so this won't be an issue in future wallet versions. Fluffypony offered to send you your entire balance in one lump sum so you no longer have this issue (back on pg 479). Just provide him with a wallet address to send it to.

[dreamspark]

Monero could, but their devs are too sluggish, and the same time do not accept neither help nor critics:
- 32 bit obsolete Windows binaries are still sticky at 1st page this thread
- No newbie's FAQ is ever made (who can support price if not newbies?!)
- Official site has still html markup errors.
- There is no special man to answer newbies questions here officially from face of Monero team.
- Even missives come with 1-2 day delay. This delay is more important than it appears, because time regularity of Monero missives is the ONLY thing Monero devs promise us.

Meanwhile there are some 40 days till LTC/2 block reward happens!!!

This is the ultimate time window, when market decides Monero to live & replace LTC or to die & forget.

32 bit binaries are not obsolete.

Could you please write down FAQ's I will answer them/get answers for them and then send to someone who can add them to the correct places.

This goes for you and everyone else Who has the ability to create a nice website like the other cn/alt coins? Im sure someone round here has templates that would be simple to add the desired information to. This is an open source project so anyone and everyone can contribute. Lets get this ball rolling.

There doesn't need to be a "special man" newbie questions get answered perfectly fine in the thread by a range of users, the devs are extremely busy it stands to reason that they cant sit on BCT all day.

[smooth]

32 bit binaries are not obsolete.

They are, sort of, in the sense that it was reported to run out of memory upon reaching a certain block number (and therefore fail to sync to the entire current block chain). I have not confirmed whether this is correct though.

A work around would probably be to configure 32-bit Windows to 3 GB user space mode, but that is non-standard.

[Finger]

Yes, this is freaking out fucking big PR problem, that Windows 32-bits binaries http://monero.cc/downloads/monero.win.x86.latest.zip (0.8.8, updated: June 11th) run out of memory without official notice.

[smooth]

Community FAQ thread is here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=686086.0

Anyone can contribute questions and/or answers (submitting both together is preferred)

[illodin]

Let's look things in the face, currently no coin can compete Bitcoin.

Monero could, but their devs are too sluggish, and the same time do not accept neither help nor critics:
- 32 bit obsolete Windows binaries are still sticky at 1st page this thread
- No newbie's FAQ is ever made (who can support price if not newbies?!)
- Official site has still html markup errors.
- There is no special man to answer newbies questions here officially from face of Monero team.
- Even missives come with 1-2 day delay. This delay is more important than it appears, because time regularity of Monero missives is the ONLY thing Monero devs promise us.

This is strange given how many experienced crypto people (senior and hero members) there supposedly are supporting xmr. I guess they are those who got lucky being there early with bitcoin and think doing just the same here i.e. buying their share of coins and sitting on the wallet is enough.

[fluffypony]

Yes, this is freaking out fucking big PR problem, that Windows 32-bits binaries http://monero.cc/downloads/monero.win.x86.latest.zip (0.8.8, updated: June 11th) run out of memory without official notice.

It's not a PR problem, I think you're misattributing what "PR" is. This is alpha-level software that requires a technical person with the ability to enable PAE to run. Eventually it will exit the alpha stage and be beta-level software with decidedly more usability (including bandwidth and memory requirements).

Per the discussion on #monero-dev we will add a note to the OP that 32-bit binaries are not recommended and they require PAE.

[psterryl]

i sent the  wallet  to fullypony, they can play with it to see why i had ghost coins in my wallet
they can play with it if they care to see what is happening
when this bug hits some big holder.. coin is far in deep shit..

The problem was that you mined lots of small 'dust' transactions to your wallet address before the minimum send amount was implemented into the pool code. This will result in a transaction that is too large to broadcast when you try to withdraw all your coins because it is taking lots of tiny fractional coin amounts.

The pools are fixed now and core devs are working on automatic transaction splitting so this won't be an issue in future wallet versions. Fluffypony offered to send you your entire balance in one lump sum so you no longer have this issue (back on pg 479). Just provide him with a wallet address to send it to.

no, im not so stupid i would not know what is dust

Ok I gave a helpful answer and you just totally ignored the fact that the bug is going to be fixed and fluffypony offered to send you all of your coins (because they're not actually lost like you claim!).

I gave you the benefit of the doubt because I want to help folk not so familiar with Monero but I guess you're just trolling?

[Finger]

It's not a PR problem, I think you're misattributing what "PR" is. This is alpha-level software that requires a technical person with the ability to enable PAE to run. Eventually it will exit the alpha stage and be beta-level software with decidedly more usability (including bandwidth and memory requirements).

Per the discussion on #monero-dev we will add a note to the OP that 32-bit binaries are not recommended and they require PAE.

Little bit late for "add a note to the OP", because i am solving this my little problem about a week. First then where were sync problems, i succeed, i synced. I had a thought to sent all 6 XMR for safety to one of exchanges, because of this error, but lagged there were no info about out of memory future  :|

Ok i am here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=686086.0, i believe there is no unhackable things in the world ...

[fluffypony]

Let's look things in the face, currently no coin can compete Bitcoin.

Monero could, but their devs are too sluggish, and the same time do not accept neither help nor critics:

You're not in #monero-dev on IRC to discuss the dev status of Monero, so it's hard for me to accept that you have any insight into the state of Monero. We are far from sluggish. All 7 of the core team members have to earn a living. Each of us can spend 14 hours a day on Monero, but then we need to draw an hourly payment to cover our time. Thus far we have received well under 1 BTC in donations, a trivial amount. That means that all of our time and energy and effort is completely self-funded.

We are not sitting on mountains of XMR, this is a cryptocurrency that had an absolutely 100% fair launch. Given the current size of the cryptocurrency market I would argue that it had an even fairer launch than Bitcoin, because tons of people jumped on and mined it from day 1. We had no opportunity to amass any sizeable amount of XMR. Thus, our entire effort is a labour of love and completely because we want to see XMR become useful. If we get no donations, we are unable to spend large amounts of time on it, and we will have to peck away at it in our spare time. If you want to see less "sluggishness" (i.e. more time allocated), then donate. If you haven't donated you have absolutely no room to manoeuvre in this discussion.

- 32 bit obsolete Windows binaries are still sticky at 1st page this thread

The embedded database work is in progress (see: https://github.com/tewinget/bitmonero/tree/blockchain), and the existing binaries work with PAE on, so "obsolete" is not the correct term. The 32-bit Windows binaries work. The PAE requirement is noted on the OP now.

- No newbie's FAQ is ever made (who can support price if not newbies?!)

Feel free to make one, or feel free to donate to free someone's time up so they can make this, but this is not at a stage where it is newbie-friendly yet, and is in such a state of flux that this would be a complete waste of effort.

- Official site has still html markup errors.

Official site is being replaced, so this would be wasted effort. Even so, HTML markup errors are rather irrelevant given the state of browsing in 2014 - virtually all the sites on the Internet don't comply with the W3C's markup validation, but render just fine.

- There is no special man to answer newbies questions here officially from face of Monero team.

With the aforementioned donations, it's enough to cover 1 day of a "special man" sitting here and answering questions. If you want that to change, donate.

- Even missives come with 1-2 day delay. This delay is more important than it appears, because time regularity of Monero missives is the ONLY thing Monero devs promise us.

See above. But over and above that, the Monero Missive is a weekly update. There is no fixed day that it comes out - it can come out any time from Monday to Sunday, but there is one a week. If we skip an entire week then your "1-2 day delay" would be valid, else go back and confirm that from the first Missive there has been 1 a week.

[psterryl]

ok, its kind a scary when this hits you if u have lot of coins
i was able to transfer most of my coins to another wallet
i had to make payment like 100 times per transaction to get it passed

I can understand that - no one wants to lose their hard-earned coins! Apologies for accusing you of trolling.

You won't have this problem if you keep mining in the future as all pools now have a 0.2 XMR minimum send, so you should be able to do large transactions (100+ XMR) from your wallet all in one go without having to split it up and pay extra transaction fees. If you post your Monero address, I can give you a small tip to make up for any transaction fees you had to pay.

[fluffypony]

ok, its kind a scary when this hits you if u have lot of coins
i was able to transfer most of my coins to another wallet
i had to make payment like 100 times per transaction to get it passed

When what hits? If you have a lot of coins you will, by definition, be able to consolidate them. You were able to move ALL of your coins and are struggling with the final 1.6 XMR. As mentioned, I will gladly send you 1.656924551683 XMR and I will reclaim it from the wallet you have sent me when the fee changes later on.

[amysun]

Let's look things in the face, currently no coin can compete Bitcoin.

Monero could, but their devs are too sluggish, and the same time do not accept neither help nor critics:

You're not in #monero-dev on IRC to discuss the dev status of Monero, so it's hard for me to accept that you have any insight into the state of Monero. We are far from sluggish. All 7 of the core team members have to earn a living. Each of us can spend 14 hours a day on Monero, but then we need to draw an hourly payment to cover our time. Thus far we have received well under 1 BTC in donations, a trivial amount. That means that all of our time and energy and effort is completely self-funded.

We are not sitting on mountains of XMR, this is a cryptocurrency that had an absolutely 100% fair launch. Given the current size of the cryptocurrency market I would argue that it had an even fairer launch than Bitcoin, because tons of people jumped on and mined it from day 1. We had no opportunity to amass any sizeable amount of XMR. Thus, our entire effort is a labour of love and completely because we want to see XMR become useful. If we get no donations, we are unable to spend large amounts of time on it, and we will have to peck away at it in our spare time. If you want to see less "sluggishness" (i.e. more time allocated), then donate. If you haven't donated you have absolutely no room to manoeuvre in this discussion.

- 32 bit obsolete Windows binaries are still sticky at 1st page this thread

The embedded database work is in progress (see: https://github.com/tewinget/bitmonero/tree/blockchain), and the existing binaries work with PAE on, so "obsolete" is not the correct term. The 32-bit Windows binaries work. The PAE requirement is noted on the OP now.

- No newbie's FAQ is ever made (who can support price if not newbies?!)

Feel free to make one, or feel free to donate to free someone's time up so they can make this, but this is not at a stage where it is newbie-friendly yet, and is in such a state of flux that this would be a complete waste of effort.

- Official site has still html markup errors.

Official site is being replaced, so this would be wasted effort. Even so, HTML markup errors are rather irrelevant given the state of browsing in 2014 - virtually all the sites on the Internet don't comply with the W3C's markup validation, but render just fine.

- There is no special man to answer newbies questions here officially from face of Monero team.

With the aforementioned donations, it's enough to cover 1 day of a "special man" sitting here and answering questions. If you want that to change, donate.

- Even missives come with 1-2 day delay. This delay is more important than it appears, because time regularity of Monero missives is the ONLY thing Monero devs promise us.

See above. But over and above that, the Monero Missive is a weekly update. There is no fixed day that it comes out - it can come out any time from Monday to Sunday, but there is one a week. If we skip an entire week then your "1-2 day delay" would be valid, else go back and confirm that from the first Missive there has been 1 a week.

Could you list the forum id of core team members?