[XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency

[Dogeshop_eu]

No you dont You use paste option, just click on the menu and you will find it

[1714901773]

1714901773

[Dogeshop_eu]

MONERO SUPPORT: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=652305.0

[AnonyMint]

I assume you failed to read the what I posted, for you seem to be unaware that (both I2P and Tor admit on their websites that) timing attacks only require the adversary to control the router at the entry and exit nodes in order to de-obfuscate the IP address of the user (or possibly for several users in the mix depending on the statistics of the low-latency and other factors), there is no need to invade the user's computer with exotic methods you mentioned.

Even hackers can (sometimes) do that.

I understand perfectly well what you've written, you seem to have misunderstood what I have written.

You have apparently not understood the implications that I was aware of since at least August 2013.

First, stop talking about Tor, we've never mentioned Tor and have already rejected it due to the problems inherent in their use of exit nodes.

If you don't want an exit node in Tor, then run a hidden service. Then the server at the onion layer hope preceding your hidden service doesn't know you are consuming the communication or are another onion layer hop that will forward on.

However a global adversary can still use timing analysis to determine that you are not forwarding communication and deduce you are running a hidden service.

Now: we are not aiming to prevent a global adversary who has control of all bordergates at all ISPs on the planet from making assertions and observations. We are aiming to prevent them from knowing whether Monero is running or not. They can know I2P is running, that we don't care about, but they should not be able to determine whether the person is harmlessly browsing the web or using Monero without completely decrypting the traffic.

This is why I mentioned that holistic design is so important. Because you've got several design variables that come into play on this.

1. The government can Sybil attack (inject nodes into) the network to gain decrypted communication and use this along with timing analysis given their global view of decrypted traffic across the nodes in I2P to backtrack which nodes in the I2P network are sending Monero communication.

2. As I explained in prior post, if the bloat of your ring signatures contributes to pool centralization, then if (as for Bitcoin) you end up with one or two pools with > 50% of the hashrate, then the government can national security gag order those and effectively decrypt and view the traffic. Since all mining nodes (e.g. pools) need to communicate with each other, the adversary can backtrack to which nodes in the I2P network are sending Monero communication.

3. The minimum block period (which is currently 10 minutes in Bitcoin, i.e. no micropayments to change the internet from the Google ad funded morass back to individual freedom) is depending on the orphan rate which is depending on the propagation delay of solved blocks. Since mining nodes (e.g. pools) must communicate this information, then the use of onion routing is unacceptable.

You can have the mining nodes send communication from a different IP address than which they receive communication (and send this information directly to each other instead of onion routing), but this still won't alleviate the Sybil attack of #1 nor the centralization of mining of #2, i.e. the users sending transactions can't know which pools are compromised so you've achieved nothing compared to each user employing a VPN.

The only way I can see to truly hide from a global adversary whether the user is participating in a crypto-currency network, is for mixing network to be immune from timing analysis.

This is why I've said since August 2013 that low-latency mix-nets are the incorrect paradigm for crypto-currency.

Why? Because a wannabe "global police state" (without resorting to the exotic methods I described) cannot possibly go after millions or billions of people around the world under the control of regimes and governments of all sorts merely for using a communications system.

Yeah but a low-latency mixing network subject to timing analysis can't help you.

I understand that you're a terribly clever and opinionated chap, but don't assume that we are ignorant or that we have made decisions for no good reason. I2P integration is for a specific purpose and is fully expected to be a stopgap if its shortcomings are not solved over time.

I measure my abilities on actual accomplishments and 25+ years of observing my designs compared to others. For example I used to work with this guy (and Tom Hedges, Lee Lorenzen creator of Ventura Publisher, Steve Guttman the former Product Manager for Adobe Photoshop) in mid 1990s on what became and is still shipping today as Corel Painter:

http://relativisticobserver.blogspot.com/2012/02/fractal-design-formula.html
http://relativisticobserver.blogspot.com/2012/02/miracle-of-paint-can.html
http://relativisticobserver.blogspot.com/2011/12/2011-year-of-steve.html
http://relativisticobserver.blogspot.com/2014/06/interesting-persons-part-1.html
http://relativisticobserver.blogspot.com/2014/02/the-new-brand.html

Here I am interacting with Mark on this blog. And here I put my entire life story on his blog. Oh my, I must have been very sick at that time.

Edit: I see I was developing on Mark's blog what became "The Universe" essay on my blog linked in my signature. I see I told him I am descended from the 1st governor of Kentucky and a ranking officer of the militia in the American Revolutionary War and the War of 1812 (also have warrior bloodline from Cherokee native tribe which doesn't originate from Isaac).

[rpietila]

I think both AnonyMint and fluffypony are great guys!

[aminorex]

price is temporarily relatively low and people start pressuring the developers for cosmetic changes (website, etc) won't do any good

Any such pressure is not a pro-Monero position, I think. Their own interests would probably be better served by a 180 degree course reversal. I consider them, therefore, insane counselors.
Not that there is anything wrong with a website, or that cosmetic work is ultimately unimportant.  But infrastructure and technology is the current priority, overwhelmingly.

My own interests are best served, for the time-being, by the lowest possible price.  Although the conclusions of a rational method seem absurd, I am loathe to elevate my sense of humor or normalcy bias above modeling best practices, so I am acting on the premise that the central tendency in the majority of scenarios is for XMR to denominate on the order of 7% of global base money in the long run.  An opportunity to accumulate at prices several orders of magnitude lower is historical, precious.

[kbm]

I think both AnonyMint and fluffypony are great guys!

+1

Actually, there are many people here who I can literally say have made me more intelligent just from sharing their thoughts in these posts.

[rpietila]

My own interests are best served, for the time-being, by the lowest possible price.

If the low price hurts the coin (some aspect of its economy or adoption), then it's not necessary beneficial.

But I am not personally complaining. (Trying hard not to divulge how many XMR I bought yesterday and today, since the number is not insignificant) 

[Primitive]

If the low price hurts the coin (some aspect of its economy or adoption), then it's not necessary beneficial.

But I am not personally complaining. (Trying hard not to divulge how many XMR I bought yesterday and today, since the number is not insignificant) 

i bought some XMR and i'm thinking about picking up some more (to be honest, merely by looking at the passion others have for this coin). 

BUT....  the decline has been long and steady.  What do you think is driving this?  And how can this coin recover?

[AnonyMint]

wolf0, mixers are honeypots.

The statement "mixers are honeypots" is a blanket statement that is obviously untrue, seeing as anyone can start a mixer.

Mixer is useless until it is popular.

Once it is popular, a server-based mixer, analogous to a server-baed VPN, is a honeypot.

Besides that, if after you use a mixer, you deposit at an exchange in a country that hates yours (I'm in the USA, and Russia hates the US about as much as I do) - you get unlinked coins most of the time, as long as you wait a bit and withdraw a different amount.
 Now, yes, their government could easily get the records from the exchange, but if the US comes to Russia and asks about some tx history, they're going to tell them they can shove their subpoena up their ass. As long as I don't have any beef with Russia, those who know don't care, and those who care don't know.

And Russians can do the same thing hiding their money from their government in the USA. So what do you think happens with both the USA and Russia need more tax revenue in this coming global debt collapse?

Of course the governments will agree to share information on those who are trying to launder money.

About the NSA, yes, they are a problem, but they are not law enforcement, and unless it's a serious matter like terrorism, they're not going to waste their time helping law enforcement. They have a job to do - which is mostly clearing people for access to sensitive info by spying on them and finding out everything about them in the US, and outside the US, spying on everyone for other reasons. We do need to come up with a solution, but XMR is not it.

Incorrect. The NSA has actually committed to help the G20 track down all the wealth. I put a link to the news story in my first post yesterday. If you are not going to bother to read the links I provide, then I can't have a discussion with you.

The entire reason the NSA and Britian's GCHQ are tracking everyone is because the plan is to hunt down all the wealth.

My sentiment is Fuck the NSA.

[E66BEN]

It's dead Jim!
Look at all those dumps! Someone buys 7, then someone dumps 700!
Whale unloading his bag?

[smooth]

It's dead Jim!
Look at all those dumps! Someone buys 7, then someone dumps 700!
Whale unloading his bag?

You realize that every time someone buys 7 it means someone else is selling 7 and someone selling 700 means someone else is buying 700? 100% of the time.

Try again with some valid logic.

[blaaaaacksuit]

I think both AnonyMint and fluffypony are great guys!

Indeed.  I enjoy reading the posts of anonymint and fluffypony.  I find that I always learn something interesting I didn't know before.

If the low price hurts the coin (some aspect of its economy or adoption), then it's not necessary beneficial.

But I am not personally complaining. (Trying hard not to divulge how many XMR I bought yesterday and today, since the number is not insignificant)

I've been waiting for the price to drop further before I purchase more.  Sometimes I think I should go all in, but that's never a good idea. 

[smooth]

If the low price hurts the coin (some aspect of its economy or adoption), then it's not necessary beneficial.

But I am not personally complaining. (Trying hard not to divulge how many XMR I bought yesterday and today, since the number is not insignificant)  

i bought some XMR and i'm thinking about picking up some more (to be honest, merely by looking at the passion others have for this coin).  

BUT....  the decline has been long and steady.  What do you think is driving this?  And how can this coin recover?

In the immediate short term, what is causing it is declining speculative interest in buying.

In the slightly longer term, what is causing it is nothing useful to do with the coin other than speculate, so 100% of the buyers are currently speculators (and as above, fewer of them want to buy).

If actual applications can be found and/or developed for the coin, then the load carried by speculators can be reduced, and in turn this will also likely increase speculative interest.

[celestio]

I've been across many alt-coins, but I have never found one as enticing as Monero. That's why I've begun working on creating a website(s) for Monero as a currency/platform for the anonymous sending of digital "cash".

[blaaaaacksuit]

It's dead Jim!
Look at all those dumps! Someone buys 7, then someone dumps 700!
Whale unloading his bag?

That's quite the activity level you have there, Looking good!

[E66BEN]

It's dead Jim!
Look at all those dumps! Someone buys 7, then someone dumps 700!
Whale unloading his bag?

You realize that every time someone buys 7 it means someone else is selling 7 and someone selling 700 means someone else is buying 700? 100% of the time.

Try again with some valid logic.

When I said buy = buy at the asks,
And DUMP = dump at the buy orders!

R U IDIOT!?

It's dead Jim!
Look at all those dumps! Someone buys 7, then someone dumps 700!
Whale unloading his bag?

That's quite the activity level you have there, Looking good!

Ah, so this thread is about me and not monero?
Another MORON.

[smooth]

It's dead Jim!
Look at all those dumps! Someone buys 7, then someone dumps 700!
Whale unloading his bag?

You realize that every time someone buys 7 it means someone else is selling 7 and someone selling 700 means someone else is buying 700? 100% of the time.

Try again with some valid logic.

When I said buy = buy at the asks,
And DUMP = dump at the buy orders!

And this matters why? I have traded on exchanges and I have often placed sell orders (i.e. the ask) when I wanted to sell reduce my holdings (but not necessarily at this immediate second) or placed buy orders when I wanted to buy.

You have a warped view of how exchanges work where market orders are somehow more important or more real than listed orders. That is false.

[Anon136]

wow sooo many trolls

[parker928]

OOOHHHH

lots of trolls



that mean's I'm going to make a lot of money soon =D

[parker928]

I want to point something out for those who haven't noticed:

Seems to me there is a strong positive correlation between the negativity behind someone's post and the lack of activity associated with the account. In other words: The more positive a comment is, the more activity that person is likely to have,

and the more negative their comment is, the LESS activity their account is likely to have.

Conclusion: paid trolls are a sign that someone want's the price down.

Secondary conclusion: someone wants cheap xmr and is priming it for a pump.

Third conclusion: buy xmr right now ;]