[XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency

[GBattaglia]

BBR also released five days prior to XMR.

This is incorrect. Bitmonero (old name for XMR) thread started on April 9 and the genesis block launched on April 18. The BBR thread was created on April 20, and the genesis block launched May 17.

I will let others comment on why they choose one or the other (or both). Obviously as a core team member any comment I would make can't be separated from at least the appearance of bias. However the above comments are factual, so bias is not an issue.

Thank you for clarifying. Sorry for my misunderstanding of info regarding the release dates.

I understand avoidance of voicing bias, but I would like to hear from you guys as well what makes the project worth pushing forward.

[Anon136]

Anarchists support Monero.

This one definitely does.

Many people are using it not only anarchists. I hope many people around the world will be using it everyday

If we could just get all of the anarchists to use it, that would be a pretty good start.

[canth]

Anarchists support Monero.

This one definitely does.

Many people are using it not only anarchists. I hope many people around the world will be using it everyday

The initial users for Bitcoin were anarchists, libertarians and users interested in drug purchases or gambling over the internet. Since then it has expanded greatly to include a wider swath of the population, albeit still rather small compared to competing financial solutions.

Satoshi had privacy in mind when he created Bitcoin as he covered that in his original whitepaper. If there's one area where Bitcoin is flawed, it's that it falls short of being truly private and anonymous. Given the momentum BTC currently enjoys and the amount of inertia associated with making major protocol level changes for a multi billion dollar airplane in flight, it's rather unlikely that true privacy and anonymity will be adopted.

This is the reason that XMR/Monero is of interest, even in a paradigm with the winner taking most of the market. As a minimum, Bitcoin replaces gold as a superior store of value. XMR/Monero could replace the anonymity of Swiss numbered bank accounts.

[AnonX#1]

XMR/Monero could replace the anonymity of Swiss numbered bank accounts.

why not any other cryptonote coin (existing or to come)? ---> serious question 

[owlcatz]

Anarchists support Monero.

This one definitely does.

Many people are using it not only anarchists. I hope many people around the world will be using it everyday

The initial users for Bitcoin were anarchists, libertarians and users interested in drug purchases or gambling over the internet. Since then it has expanded greatly to include a wider swath of the population, albeit still rather small compared to competing financial solutions.

Satoshi had privacy in mind when he created Bitcoin as he covered that in his original whitepaper. If there's one area where Bitcoin is flawed, it's that it falls short of being truly private and anonymous. Given the momentum BTC currently enjoys and the amount of inertia associated with making major protocol level changes for a multi billion dollar airplane in flight, it's rather unlikely that true privacy and anonymity will be adopted.

This is the reason that XMR/Monero is of interest, even in a paradigm with the winner taking most of the market. As a minimum, Bitcoin replaces gold as a superior store of value. XMR/Monero could replace the anonymity of Swiss numbered bank accounts.

Absolutely this right here. This is the only fork of Cryptonote that i can ever trust. The XMR devs are real people. Go read Mr. van saberhagen's whitepapers (If you can/handle dealing with strange maths?). He may be a crypto-genius, but he's just a mystery as was SN, but I believe the tech to be sound, no matter the original creator's (Possibly nefarious) ideas. I'm still in awe that someone with that much skill would trash it on BCN.. (As i've read so far - i'm still not too deep in this rabbit-hole, sorry)!

Other than that, go look at the tech behind it. if you can't trust it, or don't want to risk it, i would understand, but the XMR devs are alll pretty awesome guys IMO, unlike all the fake devs pointed out here by "Rethink-Your-Strategy" - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=740112.0

anyhow, do your own research, but i believe this is the coin of the future. true anonymity is like cash, no matter who cares, which is what BTC truly failed at. That's all we all really want right, as to me it's VERY much not about drugs, laundering money or all that criminal bs, it's about basic human rights to privacy, which have clearly been stomped upon in the past 5 years, by many nation-states. /reality sucks.  

[iCEBREAKER]

I pay taxes because I want children to be educated, hospital to work, road to be in working state, science to progress (and the fact that individual corporations can achieve it concurrently is not enough of an argument for me). I believe in society, even if I agree that inefficiency and outright corruption plague the world.

I expressly DO NOT WANT totalitarians to have ANYTHING to do with children's upbringing, health, teleportation or science. Their record in the last 100 years in these areas is so completely abysmal that they need to brainwash you 8-12 hours per day between ages 5-65 to keep you from understanding how terrible and abysmal it is.

The fact that I still pay taxes to support this ridiculous charlatanism is a stain in my banner. But remember that the reason is not that I am personally afraid of the thugs, I just happen to believe that I am more useful to the free world when not in jail.

Well said RP!  Hear, hear!

When confronted with a huge rabid dog, the smart thing to do is smile and say 'Nice doggy' while you pick up a large rock.

Monero is our large rock, we just need to keep the Beast at bay long enough to bash its head in...

Practicality and forbearance are no stains on your banner, oh wise Lord Pietila.

[owlcatz]

I pay taxes because I want children to be educated, hospital to work, road to be in working state, science to progress (and the fact that individual corporations can achieve it concurrently is not enough of an argument for me). I believe in society, even if I agree that inefficiency and outright corruption plague the world.

I expressly DO NOT WANT totalitarians to have ANYTHING to do with children's upbringing, health, teleportation or science. Their record in the last 100 years in these areas is so completely abysmal that they need to brainwash you 8-12 hours per day between ages 5-65 to keep you from understanding how terrible and abysmal it is.

The fact that I still pay taxes to support this ridiculous charlatanism is a stain in my banner. But remember that the reason is not that I am personally afraid of the thugs, I just happen to believe that I am more useful to the free world when not in jail.

Well said RP!  Hear, hear!

When confronted with a huge rabid dog, the smart thing to do is smile and say 'Nice doggy' while you pick up a large rock.

Monero is our large rock, we just need to keep the Beast at bay long enough to bash its head in...

Practicality and forbearance are no stains on your banner, oh wise Lord Pietila.

Ok. I get all of this and i know about Risto etc. but.. it's really about where you live atm.

1 - I currently reside in the USA. So, as such, I cannot avoid the fact that I rely on "Society" to school my children via taxes, as i'm not "Rich" and there aren't even any private schools where i live. (Yes, blame me or my parents LOL right?)

fact is - There is no choice here in the usa about taxes - if you pay, your good, if not, your subject to bs / gov't ruining your life/credit. sad but true. sorry.  

ANyhow, i guess my point was - "It's Really about you - Your Country, your life, where you live", and sadly/unfortunately in many cases your government will always want a piece of the action - that's how the usa works, at least. sadly enough. 

/over and out - have a good night XMR d00dz!  

last thought - i know risto lives in a castle - but, what are the taxes like there, and what country does he live in?   Thanks!  

[aminorex]

XMR/Monero could replace the anonymity of Swiss numbered bank accounts.

why not any other cryptonote coin (existing or to come)? ---> serious question  

If it were a serious question you wouldn't be creating a new account to ask it.

The first and foremost requirement of a liquidity provider is that it should provide liquidity.  Liquidity in a niche, defined by barriers of resistance, is a natural monopoly.  The leading provider is the best candidate to fill that monopoly niche.  XMR is the leading liquidity provider within the private liquidity niche today.

Investors are likely to get severely burned by pump & dump coins, snake-oil crypto, pre/insta/stealth-mined coins, elaborate pyramid schemes, &c.  Sensible, meaning large, money is very risk averse.  Entering new crypto is an intrinsically risky proposition.  New crypto must minimize risk in order to attract substantial investment.  BTC has done a pretty good job of making development and management risk disappear into the noise of wicked volatility from other causes.  The XMR team has demonstrated the skill and stability to do this for XMR as well.  All of the alternatives have much more substantial intrinsic platform risk, either because of the behaviour of the developers, or the structure of the crypto, or entanglements with disreputable parties, or sheer concentration of control.

I don't see anything else that is able to grow sufficiently to take the reins of the natural monopoly of private liquidity.  Bytecoin could have had it, but they threw it away with their 82% premine scam.  Since they threw it away, Monero picked it up and ran with it.  Now Monero is about USD 6mm ahead in the race.  If you want to catch up, be prepared to spend at least twice that much to do it, probably 5x is a more reasonable estimate.  You'd be better off just buying XMR while it is still cheap.

[Anotheranonlol]

Can someone elaborate on why you are choosing XMR over BBR?

http://youarenotsosmart.com/2011/03/25/the-sunk-cost-fallacy/

[iCEBREAKER]

Any conjecture as to the reason for the dumping?

End of the month, so the Amazon bill is due?

Long holiday weekend, so low volume?

BBR is the Cryptonote darling at the moment and was undervalued vs its big sister?

RP's controversial statement about his whale pod scared many because it sounded so pump-y?

[indiemaps]

This is my first post here, but I am not a "troll".  I am a significant holder, accumulating over the last months, and you can tell by my twitter @indiemaps that I have supported Monero in the past.  But I can't see how anybody can trust the socialist devs of this project after the revelations of the past few days.  I will not dump b/c I believe there is more BTC to be made off this flavor of the season coin.  But I have certainly lost my trust and faith in the coin and team.

The developers claim to want to separate the monetary system from the government, yet David Latapie also believes in socialist education, redistributionist schemes, and forced/violent taxation.  How this is compatible with an anonymous cryptocurrency is beyond me.

I and I hope all the other anarchists who have supported this coin in the past need to move on....to a coin with nonviolent developers who do not wish to force their views of society on us.

[smooth]

This is my first post here, but I am not a "troll".  I am a significant holder, accumulating over the last months, and you can tell by my twitter @indiemaps that I have supported Monero in the past.  But I can't see how anybody can trust the socialist devs of this project after the revelations of the past few days.  I will not dump b/c I believe there is more BTC to be made off this flavor of the season coin.  But I have certainly lost my trust and faith in the coin and team.

The developers claim to want to separate the monetary system from the government, yet David Latapie also believes in socialist education, redistributionist schemes, and forced/violent taxation.  How this is compatible with an anonymous cryptocurrency is beyond me.

I and I hope all the other anarchists who have supported this coin in the past need to move on....to a coin with nonviolent developers who do not wish to force their views of society on us.

There is room for differing views in the developer team. In fact I consider that one our great strengths. I can also assure you that the full range of views is well represented.

[Anon136]

Can someone elaborate on why you are choosing XMR over BBR?

http://youarenotsosmart.com/2011/03/25/the-sunk-cost-fallacy/

Until we run into a situation where the demand for space in the blockchain exceeds the supply of space in the blockchain there will be little to no need for 2 almost identical monies. Money is very very strongly effected by network effects and its very inefficient to use 2 monies that are very similar to each other if it is not necessary. Either bbr or nxt will be the cryptonote platform, people arnt going to use both for no reason, there are good reasons to expect that monero will be the winner because it has strong network effects compared to bbr.

[tacotime]

This is my first post here, but I am not a "troll".  I am a significant holder, accumulating over the last months, and you can tell by my twitter @indiemaps that I have supported Monero in the past.  But I can't see how anybody can trust the socialist devs of this project after the revelations of the past few days.  I will not dump b/c I believe there is more BTC to be made off this flavor of the season coin.  But I have certainly lost my trust and faith in the coin and team.

The developers claim to want to separate the monetary system from the government, yet David Latapie also believes in socialist education, redistributionist schemes, and forced/violent taxation.  How this is compatible with an anonymous cryptocurrency is beyond me.

I and I hope all the other anarchists who have supported this coin in the past need to move on....to a coin with nonviolent developers who do not wish to force their views of society on us.

Decentralized development means different people will have different opinions, see Mike Hearn versus Peter Todd versus sipa in Bitcoin.

If you can't handle other people having different opinions about the monetary systems of the world, you might be fascist.

[owlcatz]

This is my first post here, but I am not a "troll".  I am a significant holder, accumulating over the last months, and you can tell by my twitter @indiemaps that I have supported Monero in the past.  But I can't see how anybody can trust the socialist devs of this project after the revelations of the past few days.  I will not dump b/c I believe there is more BTC to be made off this flavor of the season coin.  But I have certainly lost my trust and faith in the coin and team.

The developers claim to want to separate the monetary system from the government, yet David Latapie also believes in socialist education, redistributionist schemes, and forced/violent taxation.  How this is compatible with an anonymous cryptocurrency is beyond me.

I and I hope all the other anarchists who have supported this coin in the past need to move on....to a coin with nonviolent developers who do not wish to force their views of society on us.

Sweet. what coin do you recommend over XMR then? Thanks!!

[aminorex]

The developers claim to want to separate the monetary system from the government, yet David Latapie also believes in socialist education, redistributionist schemes, and forced/violent taxation.  How this is compatible with an anonymous cryptocurrency is beyond me.

Get used to it.  Crypto is interesting to people from all parts of the political spectrum, from many cultures, languages, races, philosophies, religions, &c.  David is a very reasonable and pleasant, hard-working person.  I undoubtedly differ with him substantially in many areas of thought.   I don't see why that would make it infeasible to work together with him on shared interests.  (Note that I am not a member of the XMR core team.)

If you want to build a pervasive global currency, you're going to need resources from all parts of the political spectrum to do it.  As I see it, Monero is a technology project, which happens to serve the interest of human liberty.  Even socialists love their liberty.  They merely conceive it differently and/or make different compromises than do ancaps.

[Anotheranonlol]

Can someone elaborate on why you are choosing XMR over BBR?

http://youarenotsosmart.com/2011/03/25/the-sunk-cost-fallacy/

Until we run into a situation where the demand for space in the blockchain exceeds the supply of space in the blockchain there will be little to no need for 2 almost identical monies. Money is very very strongly effected by network effects and its very inefficient to use 2 monies that are very similar to each other if it is not necessary. Either bbr or nxt will be the cryptonote platform, people arnt going to use both for no reason, there are good reasons to expect that monero will be the winner because it has strong network effects compared to bbr.

Agreed

i guess people choose xmr because

* Liquidity
* By investing you are joining a crowd that doesn't have a history of going down with sinking ships.
* Crowd that has a history of making things happen, joined together in unison
* Great marketing and community relations
* Powerful community, network effect
* Exaggerated promises of huge gains, not seen since the days of bitcoin itself- everybody want's easy chance to turn 100$ into 100k... and that's what is projected here
* 'untainted'

of course there's a few more. tl;dr its all about perception. people here picked a horse and continue to back it because it makes sense to do so.

[Anon136]

This is my first post here, but I am not a "troll".  I am a significant holder, accumulating over the last months, and you can tell by my twitter @indiemaps that I have supported Monero in the past.  But I can't see how anybody can trust the socialist devs of this project after the revelations of the past few days.  I will not dump b/c I believe there is more BTC to be made off this flavor of the season coin.  But I have certainly lost my trust and faith in the coin and team.

The developers claim to want to separate the monetary system from the government, yet David Latapie also believes in socialist education, redistributionist schemes, and forced/violent taxation.  How this is compatible with an anonymous cryptocurrency is beyond me.

I and I hope all the other anarchists who have supported this coin in the past need to move on....to a coin with nonviolent developers who do not wish to force their views of society on us.

How many devs are there? How many of them are socialists? What specifically are the socialists working on? What harm do you suppose would be caused by a socialist developing the code? Do you expect that he will sabotage it so that governments can persecute its users?

Im willing to entertain your argument but we will certainly need more argument on specifically what harm you think this will cause.

[aminorex]

Can someone elaborate on why you are choosing XMR over BBR?

My answer to AnonX#1 above is also responsive to your question.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=583449.msg8617725#msg8617725

[owlcatz]

Can someone elaborate on why you are choosing XMR over BBR?

My answer to AnonX#1 above is also responsive to your question.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=583449.msg8617725#msg8617725

hint. don't feed the trolls. they will only drag us down.