Investigation Complete of Instamines and Fastmines for almost every top alt coin

[Daedelus]

I think the main point was that the distributions of these coins were so quick that few could take part means it could be considered premined (referred to as a soft premine/instamine, one of the two is used).

That was indeed the point.
If you start expanding the time frame... hell !!! even BTC will look premined to a guy born in 2545.

Very good I agree. So how can any coin be truly 'fair'? There are billions of people who have never heard the phrase 'cryptocurrency', if any of them become mainstream then it would be incredibly unfair to billions who weren't there at the start.

But there is the unfairness above and the incredibly, grotesquely unfair. If there is only hours/days to get involved, what difference does it make if the distribution is POS/POW/POT/hybrid?

[niothor]

I think the main point was that the distributions of these coins were so quick that few could take part means it could be considered premined (referred to as a soft premine/instamine, one of the two is used).

That was indeed the point.
If you start expanding the time frame... hell !!! even BTC will look premined to a guy born in 2545.

Very good I agree. So how can any coin be truly 'fair'? There are billions of people who have never heard the phrase 'cryptocurrency', if any of them become mainstream then it would be incredibly unfair to billions who weren't there at the start.

But there is the unfairness above and the incredibly, grotesquely unfair. If there is only hours/days to get involved, what difference does it make if the distribution is POS/POW/POT/hybrid?

A truly fair coin can't be distributed by a non profit organisation or an anonymous dev without some kind of world government backing it up. (which would ruin the whole idea)
I wondered so many times how can you distribute a coin fair and square and with no doubts that the dev isn't holding the coin itself or giving it to fake accounts , a coin that would not be advantageous for the first that hold them... that can be distributed all over the world... but no

Haven't found a solution or an idea yet.

[reRaise]

I think the main point was that the distributions of these coins were so quick that few could take part means it could be considered premined (referred to as a soft premine/instamine, one of the two is used).

That was indeed the point.
If you start expanding the time frame... hell !!! even BTC will look premined to a guy born in 2545.

Very good I agree. So how can any coin be truly 'fair'? There are billions of people who have never heard the phrase 'cryptocurrency', if any of them become mainstream then it would be incredibly unfair to billions who weren't there at the start.

But there is the unfairness above and the incredibly, grotesquely unfair. If there is only hours/days to get involved, what difference does it make if the distribution is POS/POW/POT/hybrid?

Well if the history of a coin is important for you which i believe it is than this list can be a good indicator to avoid some of them. Usually communities try to hide it or down vote it on Reddit, but this guy did a great job shining some truth.

If you look at the coins listed under 'Coins That Are Bad Ideas For Investment or Usage' there are some surprising coins which i personally didn't know about so.

[baritus]

Please do a thorough check on DigitalCoin .

[notsoshifty]

Please do a thorough check on DigitalCoin .

Not done a full check, but it seems the (very) fast blocks found in the first few hours were well handled by the (significantly) lower block rewards, leading to a fairly straight line on the chart.

[Whoisthelorax]

Interesting article.

Proper analysis about exactly why an instamine is unfair would be good.

These two aren't major altcoins at all, but you can look at:
 - Limecoin (LC, the Scrypt one; not the X11 one). 75% of all coins ever were mined in 48 minutes. See: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=579604.msg6436534#msg6436534
 - Hashcoin. 3 million coin fast mine (compare with current reward of 37500 per day) . See: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=568453.msg6371890#msg6371890

Plus, XXLCoin is currently fighting 1st/2nd place voting for Mintpal, and yet it has a huge premine (30% of current coins; 13% of all coins that will ever be mined). Mintpal doesn't even have DOGE/Altcoin markets so I don't know how that's going to work when there are 314 billion coins now and a 13%-30% premine. See: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=442107.msg6470346#msg6470346

Mention any of this in the thread and you just get flamed down by dev & chums & the lucky ones that benefitted from fastmine. I've given up. I think people don't care.

I was planning to only do top coins, but i suppose after more thought it makes sense to get information up about smallish coins before they hit it big. Save people some time.

I'll look into these, thanks.

BTW, weren't there 2 limecoins?

[Whoisthelorax]

Proper analysis about exactly why an instamine is unfair would be good.

It's a horrible analysis because he tries to claim not having KGW in an era when little or no coins had KGW systems makes you a scamcoin.

He even lists Dogecoin up there.  I was one of the first 50 people on the planet to mine Dogecoin.  It had no exchange near launch, when an exchange did come online (Coinedup), it was worth absolutely nothing.  I could have mined something more profitable, but I mined Dogecoin anyway while looking at the screen and saying, WOW, I just made 2 cents.  Nobody knew it would be worth a damn thing.

Heh, I don't like Dogecoin but I make it plainly clear in the article that their mining process wasn't all that bad.

So many of the coins I discuss have funny business beyond the KGW question. Stop creating a strawman for your entire argument.

Let's face it. You're pissed at this post because you mine a number of these coins. My post threatens your bank account. I get it. We are fated to be against each other.

Please use clear information to explain your case against my coin analysis. Ad hominem's and other logical fallacies will be called out.

[Whoisthelorax]

wow bitcoin on the list too?
but i guess we can all forgive bitcoin?  

Bitcoin wasn't instamined, fastmined or whatever.

i saw the list from OP saw bitcoin, but i was wrong i should have read that link first.

now that you mentioned it, i went and read that weblink, very interesting read indeed.

every newbie should be pointed to read that article first before investing anything.

I'll visit it once my VPN gets fixed. This way he can get my IP easily.
Anyhow: I'm not a newbie, nor do I use the altcoin section that often these days. After a while passes, you just know which coins to look at and which to avoid.

I agree that an intuition develops if you are around the scene long enough. However, I'm willing to guess that more than 95% of the intended users of these currencies will not be bitcointalk.org users. Thus, this information needs to make it to the public.

[Amph]

we should divide instamine made from a single person or a small group, and instamine made from everyone that was there, the latter is acceptable to me

bitcoin started with diff 1, so instamine was surely harder, but fastmine is possibile on btc, dunno if satoshi had spread his work around the world, or he have held it hidden and some random guys on the internet found it and disclosed it

wow bitcoin on the list too?
but i guess we can all forgive bitcoin?  

Bitcoin wasn't instamined, fastmined or whatever.

i saw the list from OP saw bitcoin, but i was wrong i should have read that link first.

now that you mentioned it, i went and read that weblink, very interesting read indeed.

every newbie should be pointed to read that article first before investing anything.

what link?

[Willisius]

That was a nice read. Thanks!

[Globb0]

Surprising how many people say oh that's wrong or shit without actually reading it properly.

[reRaise]

Surprising how many people say oh that's wrong or shit without actually reading it properly.

They know, but just denying because they 've a stake in it.

[notsoshifty]

we should divide instamine made from a single person or a small group, and instamine made from everyone that was there, the latter is acceptable to me

How can you differentiate them though? No effective way to tell whether the dev got the coins, or shared amongst a group.

Even when launch is announced in advance with a set time, dev can properly prepare his own mining setup for launch: lease a small mining farm for a few hours, get everything fully setup & synced, choose the difficulty to suit him, maybe run his own pool with nice latency to his rig, etc. Meanwhile everyone else has to scramble around with downloading & installing (or building on Linux, and hoping you're not missing an obscure library that the dev chose to require), syncing up, etc. And then with one block mined every second for the first half hour, dev gets all the good ones whilst everyone else's gets orphaned. Any QQ gets quickly dampened by dev's shills, and a few randoms who got lucky, who insist it was a fair launch because they got some coins and anyway it was announced a full 30 minutes before launch.

(Actually, for me, fairness isn't a factor, but having someone own 30% of coins is, especially if those coins were basically free)

[r0ach]

I think the main point was that the distributions of these coins were so quick that few could take part means it could be considered premined (referred to as a soft premine/instamine, one of the two is used).

No, it does not mean that "few" could take part.  It only means blocks passed by faster than normal.

The market already takes the flood of coins into account as well, and the coins are priced accordingly to that metric on the exchanges upon release.  This means in the majority of cases, it would have been more profitable to mine LTC, then sell it to purchase the other coin.  I know this holds true for Vertcoin & Dogecoin.  Where is the early miner advantage then?  There is none.  The early miner is not rewarded at all.  The smart exchange trader is the person rewarded.

You have to take into account average mining profit per megahash per day.  I mined Vertcoin at release.  Each day I was making less than mining Litecoin.  I, and the other thousands of miners didn't know if the coin would even live or die, of if we would make a cent from it.  Nobody knew if they should hold, or try and sell for less than Litecoin profit before it went down lower.  Miners in this regard are gamblers.  They're gambling with their time and money.  

Out of the available pools, every single one was being DOS'd for days as well.  You literally had to sit at your computer 24 hours a day configuring pools and miners, all the while being rewarded for less than Litecoin profit.

For this reason, coins like Dogecoin and Vertcoin don't belong in that list.  There are coins that exist where early miners were rewarded far higher than normal mining profits for the day though.  The ones I talked about just aren't one of them.  To make anything on Doge or VTC, you really had to make somewhat of a long term investment that was available to anyone.

Anyone could have bought VTC on exchange for .00005, held for a few weeks, then have it turn into .005

Look at my quote below and time stamp, that's about 10 days after the coin had already been released and the coin is worth absolutely nothing.

Price going up, should hit .0001 soon.

[Daedelus]

My comments were about distribution, relatively high proportions of a coin being concentrated in relatively few peoples hands. This is what the article is about, the speed of distribution and how fast those coins get concentrated into relatively few miners hands.

If a miner can get a high proportion of coins in a short period of time, the price during the mining is irrelevant. They can go from coin to coin, one day or so at each collecting 2-20% of the coins and sooner or later one will pop and they will dump.

It might work out ok for the instaminer but this is justification for the coin itself being a bad investment.

[notsoshifty]

No, it does not mean that "few" could take part.  It only means blocks passed by faster than normal.

The market already takes the flood of coins into account as well, and the coins are priced accordingly to that metric on the exchanges upon release.  This means in the majority of cases, it would have been more profitable to mine LTC, then sell it to purchase the other coin.  I know this holds true for Vertcoin & Dogecoin.  Where is the early miner advantage then?  There is none.  The early miner is not rewarded at all.  The smart exchange trader is the person rewarded.

You have to take into account average mining profit per megahash per day.  I mined Vertcoin at release.  Each day I was making less than mining Litecoin.  I, and the other thousands of miners didn't know if the coin would even live or die, of if we would make a cent from it.  Nobody knew if they should hold, or try and sell for less than Litecoin profit before it went down lower.  Miners in this regard are gamblers.  They're gambling with their time and money.  

Out of the available pools, every single one was being DOS'd for days as well.  You literally had to sit at your computer 24 hours a day configuring pools and miners, all the while being rewarded for less than Litecoin profit.

For this reason, coins like Dogecoin and Vertcoin don't belong in that list.  There are coins that exist where early miners were rewarded far higher than normal mining profits for the day though.  The ones I talked about just aren't one of them.  To make anything on Doge or VTC, you really had to make somewhat of a long term investment that was available to anyone.

Anyone could have bought VTC on exchange for .00005, held for a few weeks, then have it turn into .005

Look at my quote below and time stamp, that's about 10 days after the coin had already been released and the coin is worth absolutely nothing.

That's in the first few days. What about the first few hours when most of the instamine took place?

The first 4 hours mining in VTC produced about 304,000 coins, instead of the 4800 coins that should have been minted in that time, i.e. about 300,000 extra coins. If we make an assumption that the dev got 150,000 of those (just an example), then those were worth 7.5 BTC at your 0.00005 rate. Had the instamine not happened, and the dev (believing in his own coin) had bought 150,000 coins, then he would have had to pay maybe 30 BTC instead (without the huge extra supply in the early days, and with a 150,000 coin buy pressure, the price would have gone up). As it happened the coin took off and 150,000 VTC became worth more like 300 BTC.

[Amph]

we should divide instamine made from a single person or a small group, and instamine made from everyone that was there, the latter is acceptable to me

How can you differentiate them though? No effective way to tell whether the dev got the coins, or shared amongst a group.

Even when launch is announced in advance with a set time, dev can properly prepare his own mining setup for launch: lease a small mining farm for a few hours, get everything fully setup & synced, choose the difficulty to suit him, maybe run his own pool with nice latency to his rig, etc. Meanwhile everyone else has to scramble around with downloading & installing (or building on Linux, and hoping you're not missing an obscure library that the dev chose to require), syncing up, etc. And then with one block mined every second for the first half hour, dev gets all the good ones whilst everyone else's gets orphaned. Any QQ gets quickly dampened by dev's shills, and a few randoms who got lucky, who insist it was a fair launch because they got some coins and anyway it was announced a full 30 minutes before launch.

(Actually, for me, fairness isn't a factor, but having someone own 30% of coins is, especially if those coins were basically free)

you can tell it by the initial blocks numbers, after the coin has launched successfully

if the blocks count is around 50 or less, we are good to go

[Lauda]

Please do a thorough check on DigitalCoin .

The DigitalCoin train has long passed. 

[Spoetnik]

let me save the trouble..

Popular coins are instamined.

Yup.

that is all there is to it lol

so any coin that is popular is a huge instamine scam then lol

i've also had to say this dozens of times lately.. tiring bs.

[minip]

ultracoin had a 2% pre-mine, there are a total of 100,000,000 coins to be created, 2% of 100,000,000 is 2mil.
Premine: 2% (1.6% IPO / 0.3% DEV / 0.1% REWARDS)
the IPO was shared so that not one person could buy all the coins.... seems pretty fair to me or am I missing something?