Investigation Complete of Instamines and Fastmines for almost every top alt coin

[Whoisthelorax]

Try again, corrections happen all the time in healthy bull markets. That is investor lingo 101, not speculator lingo.

http://mutualfunds.about.com/od/activevspassivefunds/a/Market-Correction.htm

In reference to the number of coins in BTC wallets...I wasn't making a distribution argument, but nice try.

In regards to your assertion that by my definition, Bitcoin is a scam, that is incorrect. A ton has happened from the inception of BTC to today, including dozens of governments adding it to their tax code (or making it tax free) because so many of their citizens intended to use the currency. While there is speculation in bitcoin, the price has normalized nicely.

Just to be clear, I'm extremely skeptical of an investment into a currency that hadnt been released yet to receive 5,000x increase in valuation in 1-2 months. Your apparently extremely skeptical of a coin that has been accepted and utilized by tens of millions of people around the world in 5 years, had government hearings, thousands of business owners (incuding a few big businesses) accept the currency, and a number of Wall St type big wigs enter the fray (wayyyy after the early adopter period, mind you). While the likelihood of a bitcoin-like 1000% value appreciation happening is still very very low, there was a ton of demonstrable things that led to its rise in price. NXT cannot say the same AT ALL.

Yes, they do happen, but you cannot predict them. At least, TA (which is what you're doing) is used to analyze what happened after, any other claim is really trying to read a crystal ball. So it's nonsense when you say "I expect a pullback", because it really may or may not happen. What time scale is "too long" or "too short" in the cryptoworld? These are subjective arguments that anyone can make, and are equally as meaningless. Look at the rise of Bitcoin's value in November - do you see all of those sell orders? Why would *anyone* sell during that period at 300, 400, 500, 600, 700... crazy, right? Oh, wait, it's because they expected a "pullback", which really did not happen until the coin went up all the way over $1000.

Isn't this whole topic about distribution? "Instantmines" and "fastmines" are direct complaints of perceived "unfairness", because "early adopters" get too much "advantage". When you used words like "absurd profit margin" in your wiki, it's clear as day you're letting your emotions argue for you. There really is no factual basis behind your argument.

Also, I hope you can see the irony of this particular statement (in relation to your arguments) in particular:

In regards to your assertion that by my definition, Bitcoin is a scam, that is incorrect. A ton has happened from the inception of BTC to today, including dozens of governments adding it to their tax code (or making it tax free) because so many of their citizens intended to use the currency. While there is speculation in bitcoin, the price has normalized nicely.

Yes, so you're saying Bitcoin has intrinsic value (because it has other uses than just speculative value), and it would be silly to apply this simple analysis to it. I really do hope you know a lot is going on these days, and there will be a paradigm shift from shit-coins to actually-useful coins within the next few years - that's just the trend lately. Thus, yes, as I stated in an earliest post, this analysis probably applies to copycat shit-coins, but does not apply to any coin that has any particular intrinsic value. Just like Bitcoin.

As I said, you ignoring this intrinsic value in every single coin (except Bitcoin, apparently) is doing everyone a disservice. A more solid "analysis", IMO, would be to determine whether or not a particular coin has any intrinsic value, and whether or not that coin is undervalued or overvalued based on that. Statements like "it rose X, so it can't possibly rise Y" are meaningless. Statements like "it will rise X, because of Y" actually provide some insight.

For some reason, you're focusing very heavily on NXT, as if that is all I am talking about. NXT is not my only investment, but I digress. What Bitcoin is doing now is paving the way for other coins, you don't actually think alt-coins will have to go through the same process as Bitcoin did, right? (Besides adoption) Once the legal framework is in place, more people are familiar with crypto, etc. - that does not need to be done again. I believe in cryptocurrency in general, but this "analysis" is clearly an agenda to promote certain coins because you refuse to take into account of all the factors even when it's shown that your model is too simple.

But just to scratch an itch - have you seen the recent developments of NXT at all? Or are you just using what you've heard or perceived from other people? I encourage everyone to actually take a close look at what NXT is doing and not believe what FUD-sters promote, because all of these arguments ("instantmine", "distribution", etc.) are really distractions from the real point - what the ecosystem can actually do (and is doing).

Pandaisftw

we have been experiencing the pullback for the last few months. And just because you know a correction is coming soon doesn't mean you sell (for the reasons you alluded to...you can guess wrong). Traders study the technicals and try to figure that out. Investors spend more time on the fundamentals. They like to buy and hold. They buy on the dips of the corrections way more than they play the day trader game.

WRT your idea of a better analysis; great, why dont you do that analysis then.

I don't focus on the intrinsic value of bitcoin in my article. AT ALL. this conversation with you has been a rather pointless endeavor. Like it has been said ad nauseum, the article focuses on mining data/coin generation only. Bitcoin's mining data checks out. No mention of btc atms, nada.

I hear you that you want a less emotional post about NXT. I can see how that needs to change. It still will be in the extreme caution category the reasons stated (that we seem to disagree on).

[Whoisthelorax]

I love this thread.

I made a quick live youtuber about premines and instamines Jul 28 2013 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmyIjyjQUmc&feature=share

i show cryptometer.org and frk(great no premine),  bottleCAPs(great, HBN both same algo and no premine coins)..  then i show MinCoin( )   This was made quite awhile ago, interesting to watch now in retrospect.

nice vid! If I knew what I was doing with video editing I probably would've thrown together a few. www.cryptometer.org makes it quite easy to do a voice over analysis.

[coopbody]

Thank you very much for sharing, I agree with you, now altcoin is short-term development.

[toknormal]

-LOL at the "same opportunity" being avaible right now. 5000x increase in valuation would put NXT in the range of 150 billion market cap.

-The launch of NXT was Conducted with complete intregity? Like ending the IPO option more than a month early?  

Why are you obsessed with this point ? A month earlier than what ?

I can understand people being disappointed not getting in at the time (I didn't get in). I can even understand them getting angry. But what's it got to do with its market valuation or potential today ? Absolutely nothing as far as I can see.

Are you saying the market is overvaluing the currency or what ? This is not clear from your commentary when in fact it's the presumably the one thing that your readers would want to know. Nobody buying today gives 2 sods about how it was launched. They want to know if they have an investment that's going to give returns or not.

Are you saying there's an ethical problem with it ? I asked you this earlier but the most articulate response you're capable of amounts to nothing more than a load of toys being thrown of the pram.

Does that prove a conspiracy? of course not. It does suggest the going rate for getting NXT was SEVERELY undervalued. how can an investor receive his coins and then turn around and try to sell it for 50x? insanity. That's what I argue is not good about the coin.

Why is it "insanity" ?

Is this the whole basis for your appraisal ? That you feel the initial stakeholders made too much money ?

It looks like it to me. Even so, you don't take into account that 'market cap' is a theoretical number. None of the stakeholders can actually realise their holdings. They can only realise a tiny portion of it and by the time their full remaining holdings are realisable, the currency will be substantially distributed anyway.

So your whole line of reasoning looks like a mish mash of straw man arguments and making mountains out of molehills mixed in with a bit of jealousy. I don't think you're even clear yourself why you hold these views.

[Daedelus]

If I put my house up for auction for $1 and it sold $100,000, is this mark up 'insanity'? Or do people use things other than the initial price to determine value?

You have shown repeatedly that you don't understand value, only price. And you use it in your guide arbitrarily (this is your methodology everyone is talking about that you have admitted excludes important factors in determining long term value) to decide whether something is a 'good investment'. Your methodology is bad which creates bad conclusions. 

[Lauda]

No. What I take issue with is your statement that the coin was "not fairly distributed" when in fact the link I provided indicates otherwise.

Also, with the coin now 12 months old and trading at less than 10% of its Dec 2013 high, your assertion that someone with a large amount of coins could "completely crash your investment" is less than genuine at best.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=231834.msg3289325#msg3289325

From what I can remember, the new team (including Microguy) was working to get the coin fixed. Instead of releasing a new coin completely, they have just redesigned it and fixed those flaws. I don't consider goldcoin an instamine.

[Whoisthelorax]

If I put my house up for auction for $1 and it sold $100,000, is this mark up 'insanity'? Or do people use things other than the initial price to determine value?

You have shown repeatedly that you don't understand value, only price. And you use it in your guide arbitrarily (this is your methodology everyone is talking about that you have admitted excludes important factors in determining long term value) to decide whether something is a 'good investment'. Your methodology is bad which creates bad conclusions.  

no. the better analogy is that you bought your house for 100 dollars in october, and sold it for 100,000+ in December.

What's wrong with that picture? Do i think its more likely that your house will be valued at 500K or 20k in the near future with a ridiculously fast appreicate like that? Unless you have the philospher's stone hidden in the basement, its closer to 20k.

[Whoisthelorax]

-LOL at the "same opportunity" being avaible right now. 5000x increase in valuation would put NXT in the range of 150 billion market cap.

-The launch of NXT was Conducted with complete intregity? Like ending the IPO option more than a month early?  

Why are you obsessed with this point ? A month earlier than what ?

I can understand people being disappointed not getting in at the time (I didn't get in). I can even understand them getting angry. But what's it got to do with its market valuation or potential today ? Absolutely nothing as far as I can see.

Are you saying the market is overvaluing the currency or what ? This is not clear from your commentary when in fact it's the presumably the one thing that your readers would want to know. Nobody buying today gives 2 sods about how it was launched. They want to know if they have an investment that's going to give returns or not.

Are you saying there's an ethical problem with it ? I asked you this earlier but the most articulate response you're capable of amounts to nothing more than a load of toys being thrown of the pram.

Does that prove a conspiracy? of course not. It does suggest the going rate for getting NXT was SEVERELY undervalued. how can an investor receive his coins and then turn around and try to sell it for 50x? insanity. That's what I argue is not good about the coin.

Why is it "insanity" ?

Is this the whole basis for your appraisal ? That you feel the initial stakeholders made too much money ?

It looks like it to me. Even so, you don't take into account that 'market cap' is a theoretical number. None of the stakeholders can actually realise their holdings. They can only realise a tiny portion of it and by the time their full remaining holdings are realisable, the currency will be substantially distributed anyway.

So your whole line of reasoning looks like a mish mash of straw man arguments and making mountains out of molehills mixed in with a bit of jealousy. I don't think you're even clear yourself why you hold these views.

there is no proof of this being planned, so there is no big ethical qualm against NXT. the unannounced cutting off of the ipo during btc zoom upward is certainly, suggestive, but doesn't proof anything.

it appreciated wayyy to much in value, too fast, $7 --->$40,000 in two months... for it to be a good invesment now for somebody jumping in. Nobody wants to get into an investment at the top.

[Daedelus]

If I put my house up for auction for $1 and it sold $100,000, is this mark up 'insanity'? Or do people use things other than the initial price to determine value?

You have shown repeatedly that you don't understand value, only price. And you use it in your guide arbitrarily (this is your methodology everyone is talking about that you have admitted excludes important factors in determining long term value) to decide whether something is a 'good investment'. Your methodology is bad which creates bad conclusions. 

no. the better analogy is that you bought your house for 100 dollars in october, and sold it for 100,000+ in December.

What's wrong with that picture?

Nothing, as it was sold to me for much less than people value it for. The same is true for Nxt. People see what Nxt can do and what is planned and the price rises as they think it will have more value in the future than it does today.

[Whoisthelorax]

If I put my house up for auction for $1 and it sold $100,000, is this mark up 'insanity'? Or do people use things other than the initial price to determine value?

You have shown repeatedly that you don't understand value, only price. And you use it in your guide arbitrarily (this is your methodology everyone is talking about that you have admitted excludes important factors in determining long term value) to decide whether something is a 'good investment'. Your methodology is bad which creates bad conclusions. 

no. the better analogy is that you bought your house for 100 dollars in october, and sold it for 100,000+ in December.

What's wrong with that picture?

Nothing, as it was sold to me for much less than people value it for. The same is true for Nxt. People see what Nxt can do and what is planned and the price rises as they think it will have more value in the future than it does today.

well we agree to disagree here.

If i buy a house for 100 (waaay undervalued) and then begin selling it at 100,000, those people buying on the other end are suckers.

"When what is planned" actually happens with nxt, then it can validate the price. its def not there yet.

[Daedelus]

If I put my house up for auction for $1 and it sold $100,000, is this mark up 'insanity'? Or do people use things other than the initial price to determine value?

You have shown repeatedly that you don't understand value, only price. And you use it in your guide arbitrarily (this is your methodology everyone is talking about that you have admitted excludes important factors in determining long term value) to decide whether something is a 'good investment'. Your methodology is bad which creates bad conclusions.  

no. the better analogy is that you bought your house for 100 dollars in october, and sold it for 100,000+ in December.

What's wrong with that picture?

Nothing, as it was sold to me for much less than people value it for. The same is true for Nxt. People see what Nxt can do and what is planned and the price rises as they think it will have more value in the future than it does today.

well we agree to disagree here.

If i buy a house for 100 (waaay undervalued) and then begin selling it at 100,000, those people buying on the other end are suckers.

"When what is planned" actually happens with nxt, then it can validate the price. its def not there yet.

You might try to agree to disagree but anyone with any understanding of what creates value and how to judge it will see the glaring errors in your piece.

If you want to label anyone a sucker, it would be Bcnext for giving away ideas and software worth millions of dollars for a few thousand bucks.

[defaced]

I love this thread.

I made a quick live youtuber about premines and instamines Jul 28 2013 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmyIjyjQUmc&feature=share

i show cryptometer.org and frk(great no premine),  bottleCAPs(great, HBN both same algo and no premine coins)..  then i show MinCoin( )   This was made quite awhile ago, interesting to watch now in retrospect.

Yup I remember that video.

[toknormal]

there is no proof of this being planned, so there is no big ethical qualm against NXT

Well that's progress. Perhaps you should tone down the emotive language in your commentary to reflect that fact.

. the unannounced cutting off of the ipo during btc zoom upward is certainly, suggestive, but doesn't proof anything.

Suggestive of what ? That the developer colluded with the initial stakeholders and they were all secretly part of the same group ? If that's what your suggesting then I think you should spell it out in the commentary so it's unambiguous, along with the basis for suspecting this. There would be nothing wrong with doing that and presenting it as something to be taken into account when making investment decisions since none of us can know one way or another. There does not appear to be any material evidence of such collusion but it could still be possible.

Where I take issue with your report is the wholesale slamming of a perfectly good project that has a massive community of constructive members - both developers and investors - based on this one issue that's fading into historical irrelevance anyway.

it appreciated wayyy to much in value, too fast, $7 --->$40,000 in two months... for it to be a good invesment now for somebody jumping in. Nobody wants to get into an investment at the top.

So you do think it's overvalued. At last a clear and simple market appraisal free of antagonistic jingoisms (almost).

Why don't you just state that then along with your reasons ? I happen to think it's undervalued since we are about to see a new phase of growth in 3rd party commercial ventures engaging with the NXT asset feature about to be launched. But that's just my opinion and you'd be entitled to take a different view of the situation. Would be a refreshing break from all the mumbo jumbo about distributions and what is and isn't 'insanity'.

[salsacz]

this is the dumbest crypto analysis I have ever seen (with wrong methodology)

how can anyone write these bullshits?

no. the better analogy is that you bought your house for 100 dollars in october, and sold it for 100,000+ in December.

- you cannot sell all, if you have 50 mega Nxt, it is as same as having 1 mega Nxt in terms of valuation.

Today if you sell 550.000 Nxt on Bter and Cryptsy, 1 nxt would cost 1 Satoshi.

Only the dumbest sucker could believe to these calculations:

someone got 49,875768 NXT...for sending 1 BTC.

at today's price thats a cool $1.5 million.

at NXT's really quick peak (.08 a coin and higher), that was worth well over $3 million dollars.

when in fact it is $25,000 dollars, because if anyone would start selling, he could sell only $25,000 to get to zero in exchanges, not more.

[Lauda]

this is the dumbest crypto analysis I have ever seen (with wrong methodology)

how can anyone write these bullshits?

no. the better analogy is that you bought your house for 100 dollars in october, and sold it for 100,000+ in December.

- you cannot sell all, if you have 50 mega Nxt, it is as same as having 1 mega Nxt in terms of valuation.

Today if you sell 550.000 Nxt on Bter and Cryptsy, 1 nxt would cost 1 Satoshi.

Only the dumbest sucker could believe to these calculations:

someone got 49,875768 NXT...for sending 1 BTC.

at today's price thats a cool $1.5 million.

at NXT's really quick peak (.08 a coin and higher), that was worth well over $3 million dollars.

when in fact it is $25,000 dollars, because if anyone would start selling, he could sell only $25,000 to get to zero in exchanges, not more.

$ 30,319,574

Nobody in the right mind is going to believe that NXT has so many people in it. Nobody is selling, and the buy walls are thin just as you've said it. I actually think that it wouldn't even be $25,000, because people would lower the walls (unless it was instantly sold, which would crash the market).

[BBmodBB]

XBC(Bitcoin Plus) number one scam i've found recently we need to get the dev to give back the 50+BTC he stole from the community. Then throw him in prison. Who is with me? :-)

[Lauda]

XBC(Bitcoin Plus) number one scam i've found recently we need to get the dev to give back the 50+BTC he stole from the community. Then throw him in prison. Who is with me? :-)

This doesn't come as a surprise. There might be a handful of developers that keep releasing coins to earn/scam people for money.
I don't think that you can get him into a prison. How would you even find him?

P.S. Never touch coins that have 'bitcoin' in their name, except the original one of course.

[BBmodBB]

XBC(Bitcoin Plus) number one scam i've found recently we need to get the dev to give back the 50+BTC he stole from the community. Then throw him in prison. Who is with me? :-)

This doesn't come as a surprise. There might be a handful of developers that keep releasing coins to earn/scam people for money.
I don't think that you can get him into a prison. How would you even find him?

P.S. Never touch coins that have 'bitcoin' in their name, except the original one of course.

yes hold tight, the more cryptos get accepted in the Wall Street circles the more you will see this kind of thing. you remember that guy in Texas? pirate...yes i have no problem with people who follow their dreams whatever if its premined/instamined if they stick around and use the bread for building their dream!
Bitcoin sCrypt(BTCS) is one i'm actually holding a few thousand long term because they have a tight community and devs who are on the ball and want to take it back to the roots!

*good to see you are still around LaudaM ~it's been a trying season! =\

[Lauda]

This doesn't come as a surprise. There might be a handful of developers that keep releasing coins to earn/scam people for money.
I don't think that you can get him into a prison. How would you even find him?

P.S. Never touch coins that have 'bitcoin' in their name, except the original one of course.

yes hold tight, the more cryptos get accepted in the Wall Street circles the more you will see this kind of thing. you remember that guy in Texas? pirate...yes i have no problem with people who follow their dreams whatever if its premined/instamined if they stick around and use the bread for building their dream!
Bitcoin sCrypt(BTCS) is one i'm actually holding a few thousand long term because they have a tight community and devs who are on the ball and want to take it back to the roots!

*good to see you are still around LaudaM ~it's been a trying season! =\

Which guy, I can't seem to remember?
Well good luck with your investment, I'm only into a very few altcoins. Yeah this season hasn't been that great, but I'll be here for another year or so if all goes well.

[pandaisftw]

we have been experiencing the pullback for the last few months. And just because you know a correction is coming soon doesn't mean you sell (for the reasons you alluded to...you can guess wrong). Traders study the technicals and try to figure that out. Investors spend more time on the fundamentals. They like to buy and hold. They buy on the dips of the corrections way more than they play the day trader game.

WRT your idea of a better analysis; great, why dont you do that analysis then.

I don't focus on the intrinsic value of bitcoin in my article. AT ALL. this conversation with you has been a rather pointless endeavor. Like it has been said ad nauseum, the article focuses on mining data/coin generation only. Bitcoin's mining data checks out. No mention of btc atms, nada.

I hear you that you want a less emotional post about NXT. I can see how that needs to change. It still will be in the extreme caution category the reasons stated (that we seem to disagree on).

Well, I bring up intrinsic value because I believe that that needs to be accounted for when you make investment analysis. If anything, the initial distribution is just one factor in the outcome (X + Y = Z) - basing any conclusions purely off of this one variable *might* give you the right answer (Y happens to = Z), but more than not, it'll be wrong because you didn't account for the other known variables.

So there's nothing wrong with providing this "data", but, as I said, making investment conclusions based off incomplete data is more often wrong than not.

Perhaps I should do an analysis, but I feel that it would be redundant (well, at least to me) because the cryptos on the top of my analysis would basically be all the 2nd gen coins (Ethereum, NXT, maidsafe, etc.) Are there people who don't actually believe these types of crypto are the future? 

Pandaisftw