Closed Thread

[Hueristic]

So for now it is not POA, but POFA?
^Proof of Fake Activity^ 

Hence no one is keeping wallets open anymore.

[Nodeclub]

So for now it is not POA, but POFA?
^Proof of Fake Activity^  

 
Do You know what is common between the activity on the forum and activity in bed? In both places it's impossible to simulate it long
This rule also applies fully to Node. I've to say You have a wonderful sense of humor, but if you read the topic a little closer you would see that this issue was discussed a couple of pages back.

Hello.
Tell please, there is a way of mining NODE?

node is POA (proof of activity)

speaking of, i noticed every other block is being forged by the same account. how is this possible? does more computing power effect odds of generating a block?

We checked it out, everything is OК. The Wallet is very active in the use of the network - it makes many transactions and generates many blocks respectively. It is fair.

http://nodemoney.com:19775/#/explorer/transaction/8972433069625705159

Is it possible to fake activity by sending coins to your own multiple wallets etc... ? Seems kind of broken to me

From a mathematical point of view, it can be profitable only in the initial stage of network activity and capitalization when there is a distance between weighted average size of large and small transactions and market value isn't high. Financial liability for the transaction will increase inevitably in proportion to the growth of capitalization and network activity. In addition, even now there is enough around 15-20 small & middle transactions per hour to overlap this possibility.
In the future this possibility will disappear automatically with increasing of total number of transactions and a decreasing in the average transaction amount.

[Nodeclub]

Hence no one is keeping wallets open anymore.

Then it would be a big mistake, I have to say

Of course, excellence has no limits, but to date PoA algorithm has no alternative in terms of promoting the usage instead of promoting the crowdselling (PoW) or accumulation (PoS). This algorithm is the future - it will exist in improved form even in times when you'll forget the name of 90% of the existing coins

We are always working to improve the coefficients but the essence of PoA remains unchanged.

[whitecloud]

PoA as a concept is ok.
The form that has should perhaps modified.
And what I said above - it seems to me to be a bug.

I'm at the block x
send 10000 nodes
block x + 1 is forged by someone else, which is normal - I made a transaction so I can not forge
I forged block x + 2, which is somewhat normal - my nodeheight is high
but
without having to make any transaction
I forged further - block x + 4, x + 6, x + 8, ... , which is abnormal - my nodeheight should reset and another with greater nodeheight was supposed to forging.
what's wrong here ? or I misunderstood the mechanism?

[luckygenough56]

Glad to see that 2 accounts can forge all blocks. that seems balanced and fair.

[Nodeclub]

PoA as a concept is ok.
The form that has should perhaps modified.
And what I said above - it seems to me to be a bug.

I'm at the block x
send 10000 nodes
block x + 1 is forged by someone else, which is normal - I made a transaction so I can not forge
I forged block x + 2, which is somewhat normal - my nodeheight is high
but
without having to make any transaction
I forged further - block x + 4, x + 6, x + 8, ... , which is abnormal - my nodeheight should reset and another with greater nodeheight was supposed to forging.
what's wrong here ? or I misunderstood the mechanism?

Today's algorithm isn't reset it immediately - if the weight of your activity was much higher than the others than works principle of "waves" - the bigger stone thrown into the water, the greater ripple You will get. In the future, we will change the coefficients and probably we will remove this feature, but to improve algorithm we need 2 things: 1) unit collecting statistics we are currently developing, and 2) Your activity to collect representative statistics.

[rlh]

Glad to see that 2 accounts can forge all blocks. that seems balanced and fair.

NodeClub/RealSilk, if you wouldn't mind, please PM me the mathematics of the algo.

A while ago I was working on a similar but rather sophisticated project.  The idea of PoA is novel but, IMHO, can be easy to manipulate.  Of course, your take on the solution could have solved many of the problems that I discovered.  Regardless, I think I could make a few suggestions that could improve the algo if I had a reasonable understanding of the process.

I understand that you guys are wanting to stay quiet on the details for fear of copycats but check my account-- I'm well invested in NODE, so it's success is quite important to me.

Thank you.

[Nodeclub]

Glad to see that 2 accounts can forge all blocks. that seems balanced and fair.

NodeClub/RealSilk, if you wouldn't mind, please PM me the mathematics of the algo.

A while ago I was working on a similar but rather sophisticated project.  The idea of PoA is novel but, IMHO, can be easy to manipulate.  Of course, your take on the solution could have solved many of the problems that I discovered.  Regardless, I think I could make a few suggestions that could improve the algo if I had a reasonable understanding of the process.

I understand that you guys are wanting to stay quiet on the details for fear of copycats but check my account-- I'm well invested in NODE, so it's success is quite important to me.

Thank you.

I sent You PM.

As I said earlier, according to our calculations possibility of manipulation will disappear automatically with the growth of the network and capitalization.
If You send 10,000 (fee is 35) and gain highest PoA weight then You can get a profit only when the next block will be 35+1, - respectively, next transaction should be 10000+1. But it can be 10, 100 or even 1, - so then You get less than You give. In this case Your unnecessary transactions will bring You nothing but losses Now, on the initial stage of network forger's number is small and there is a high percentage of large transactions 490,000+ so You can get some profit sending money between own accounts, but the overall low level of capitalization will make it low.
So I repeat again: in the future this possibility will disappear automatically with increasing of total number of transactions and a decreasing in the average transaction amount. Even now there is enough around 15-20 small & middle transactions per hour to overlap this possibility.

In the February release we try to make the PoA coefficient as open and transparent as possible.

[whitecloud]

PoA as a concept is ok.
The form that has should perhaps modified.
And what I said above - it seems to me to be a bug.

I'm at the block x
send 10000 nodes
block x + 1 is forged by someone else, which is normal - I made a transaction so I can not forge
I forged block x + 2, which is somewhat normal - my nodeheight is high
but
without having to make any transaction
I forged further - block x + 4, x + 6, x + 8, ... , which is abnormal - my nodeheight should reset and another with greater nodeheight was supposed to forging.
what's wrong here ? or I misunderstood the mechanism?

Today's algorithm isn't reset it immediately - if the weight of your activity was much higher than the others than working principle of "waves" - the bigger stone thrown into the water, the greater ripple You will get. In the future, we will change the coefficients and probably we will remove this feature, but to improve algorithm we need 2 things: 1) unit collecting statistics we are currently developing, and 2) Your activity to collect representative statistics.

interesting

[bitdraw]

Glad to see that 2 accounts can forge all blocks. that seems balanced and fair.

NodeClub/RealSilk, if you wouldn't mind, please PM me the mathematics of the algo.

A while ago I was working on a similar but rather sophisticated project.  The idea of PoA is novel but, IMHO, can be easy to manipulate.  Of course, your take on the solution could have solved many of the problems that I discovered.  Regardless, I think I could make a few suggestions that could improve the algo if I had a reasonable understanding of the process.

I understand that you guys are wanting to stay quiet on the details for fear of copycats but check my account-- I'm well invested in NODE, so it's success is quite important to me.

Thank you.

I sent You PM.

The possibility of manipulation will automatically disappear with the growth of the network and capitalization. If You send 10,000 (fee is 35) and gain highest PoA weight then You can get a profit only when the next block will be 35+1, - respectively, next transaction should be 10000+1. But it can be 10, 100 or even 1, - so then You get less than You give. In this case Your unnecessary transactions will bring You nothing but losses Now, on the initial stage of network forger's number is small, and there is a high percentage of large transactions 490,000+ You can get some profit sending money between own accounts, but the overall low level of capitalization will make it low.
So I repeat again: in the future this possibility will disappear automatically with increasing of total number of transactions and a decreasing in the average transaction amount. Even now there is enough around 15-20 small & middle transactions per hour to overlap this possibility.

In the February release we try to make the PoA coefficient as open and transparent as possible.

one quick question. if i run my node for lets say 40 hours and i get a short disconnect, is all my poa power lost?

[Nodeclub]

Glad to see that 2 accounts can forge all blocks. that seems balanced and fair.

NodeClub/RealSilk, if you wouldn't mind, please PM me the mathematics of the algo.

A while ago I was working on a similar but rather sophisticated project.  The idea of PoA is novel but, IMHO, can be easy to manipulate.  Of course, your take on the solution could have solved many of the problems that I discovered.  Regardless, I think I could make a few suggestions that could improve the algo if I had a reasonable understanding of the process.

I understand that you guys are wanting to stay quiet on the details for fear of copycats but check my account-- I'm well invested in NODE, so it's success is quite important to me.

Thank you.

I sent You PM.

The possibility of manipulation will automatically disappear with the growth of the network and capitalization. If You send 10,000 (fee is 35) and gain highest PoA weight then You can get a profit only when the next block will be 35+1, - respectively, next transaction should be 10000+1. But it can be 10, 100 or even 1, - so then You get less than You give. In this case Your unnecessary transactions will bring You nothing but losses Now, on the initial stage of network forger's number is small, and there is a high percentage of large transactions 490,000+ You can get some profit sending money between own accounts, but the overall low level of capitalization will make it low.
So I repeat again: in the future this possibility will disappear automatically with increasing of total number of transactions and a decreasing in the average transaction amount. Even now there is enough around 15-20 small & middle transactions per hour to overlap this possibility.

In the February release we try to make the PoA coefficient as open and transparent as possible.

one quick question. if i run my node for lets say 40 hours and i get a short disconnect, is all my poa power lost?

Right

[Hueristic]

Glad to see that 2 accounts can forge all blocks. that seems balanced and fair.

NodeClub/RealSilk, if you wouldn't mind, please PM me the mathematics of the algo.

A while ago I was working on a similar but rather sophisticated project.  The idea of PoA is novel but, IMHO, can be easy to manipulate.  Of course, your take on the solution could have solved many of the problems that I discovered.  Regardless, I think I could make a few suggestions that could improve the algo if I had a reasonable understanding of the process.

I understand that you guys are wanting to stay quiet on the details for fear of copycats but check my account-- I'm well invested in NODE, so it's success is quite important to me.

Thank you.

I sent You PM.

The possibility of manipulation will automatically disappear with the growth of the network and capitalization. If You send 10,000 (fee is 35) and gain highest PoA weight then You can get a profit only when the next block will be 35+1, - respectively, next transaction should be 10000+1. But it can be 10, 100 or even 1, - so then You get less than You give. In this case Your unnecessary transactions will bring You nothing but losses Now, on the initial stage of network forger's number is small, and there is a high percentage of large transactions 490,000+ You can get some profit sending money between own accounts, but the overall low level of capitalization will make it low.
So I repeat again: in the future this possibility will disappear automatically with increasing of total number of transactions and a decreasing in the average transaction amount. Even now there is enough around 15-20 small & middle transactions per hour to overlap this possibility.

In the February release we try to make the PoA coefficient as open and transparent as possible.

one quick question. if i run my node for lets say 40 hours and i get a short disconnect, is all my poa power lost?

Right

Seriously hurts those that cannot run 24/7. this will not lead to more nodes but less. Therefor giving the Nodes that forge even less competition and more share of the forging process thereby defeating the goal of creating more nodes for security.

It may be too late but at first the POA should have been phased in a milestones. that would have assured a larger base in the initial launch. Well we live and learn through doing.

I'll spark up the wallet for a few days in a few weeks and see if I forge anything. But I am of the opinion that node increase will/is stagnated. The reward is not there.

As I recommended earlier What is needed is a random giveaway to nodes that have not forged. Also resetting age when wallet loses connectivity or is closed for the night is detrimental to the extreme.

Unless these issues are addressed this project is going to see a significant tapering off of supporters, It is inevitable.

[GreenDude]

I agree with the fact that losing connection should not make a node lose their points. For example i cannot be 24h with node running but i can open it everyday let's say 12-15 hours. And i wont if i know that is gonna be useless because with those hours i wont be able to forge because of obvious reasons.

Another point is that as a payment system I really don't care about forging.. I really need it for paying and moving money and doing conversion from usd to eur and viceversa. I really don't care earning thx to the forging mechanism.. but that is my case. Other people who want to live or have a plus from forging will find much more encouraging to not have to face a reset everytime they lose connection. I think this is not difficult to achieve to save those points some way for next connection.

[Nodeclub]

We are still in an early beta and we haven't even started an advertising campaign and you're already talking about stagnation or loss of supporters The current users of a Node is pioneers, "salt of the earth", may be the most advanced part of cryptocommunity who versed in crypto technology and its evolution and who is able to see a few steps ahead. We build long-term system, it's not a lottery and not MLM, it's a global payment system with a certain niche in the market of money transfers.
In 2013 customers paid $ 260 billion as comission for credit card transactions. Currency exchange market has a volume $ 5 trillion per day (for comparison, the market USD/BTC is still very small - only $ 10 million (or 500,000 times less). If we will get 1-2% of that market during next couple of years it will be a good start for us.

So now you have the opportunity to support the system and get a reward at the initial stage. In the future "time forging" for network support will be available only for Master Nodes - everybody can run it, but the requirements for the connection and server will be high - 24/7 high speed connection and 10,000+ open ports. The rest will receive bonuses only for the usage of network for its intended purpose - as a payment system.

[pantheist]

I agree with the fact that losing connection should not make a node lose their points. For example i cannot be 24h with node running but i can open it everyday let's say 12-15 hours. And i wont if i know that is gonna be useless because with those hours i wont be able to forge because of obvious reasons.

If it cut points significantly (say, reduced to the cube root or something) on each forge then it wouldn't be much of an issue since people on for very long would regularly be having their points reduced too. Just looking at the last couple pages though it doesn't sound like that's what's happening.

[whitecloud]

We are still in an early beta and we haven't even started an advertising campaign and you're already talking about stagnation or loss of supporters The current users of a Node is pioneers, "salt of the earth", may be the most advanced part of cryptocommunity who versed in crypto technology and its evolution and who is able to see a few steps ahead. We build long-term system, it's not a lottery and not MLM, it's a global payment system with a certain niche in the market of money transfers.
In 2013 customers paid $ 260 billion as comission for credit card transactions. Currency exchange market has a volume $ 5 trillion per day (for comparison, the market USD/BTC is still very small - only $ 10 million (or 500,000 times less). If we will get 1-2% of that market during next couple of years it will be a good start for us.

So now you have the opportunity to support the system and get a reward at the initial stage. In the future "time forging" for network support will be available only for Master Nodes - everybody can run it, but the requirements for the connection and server will be high - 24/7 high speed connection and 10,000+ open ports. The rest will receive bonuses only for the usage of network for its intended purpose - as a payment system.

I like the vision!
Think big! 

[GreenDude]

We are still in an early beta and we haven't even started an advertising campaign and you're already talking about stagnation or loss of supporters The current users of a Node is pioneers, "salt of the earth", may be the most advanced part of cryptocommunity who versed in crypto technology and its evolution and who is able to see a few steps ahead. We build long-term system, it's not a lottery and not MLM, it's a global payment system with a certain niche in the market of money transfers.
In 2013 customers paid $ 260 billion as comission for credit card transactions. Currency exchange market has a volume $ 5 trillion per day (for comparison, the market USD/BTC is still very small - only $ 10 million (or 500,000 times less). If we will get 1-2% of that market during next couple of years it will be a good start for us.

So now you have the opportunity to support the system and get a reward at the initial stage. In the future "time forging" for network support will be available only for Master Nodes - everybody can run it, but the requirements for the connection and server will be high - 24/7 high speed connection and 10,000+ open ports. The rest will receive bonuses only for the usage of network for its intended purpose - as a payment system.

That's why I have my NODE's without worrying about forging or current price. I know this is gonna grow 10-20-50-100X easily. I should worry about forging because at some point what now seems little is gonna be worth much more but my time is limited and I cant be really much online.
I dont see a problem at all about this current way to trick poa and get some NODE's. Because this is only possible because is still beta and there is not many transactions. Actually if i wanna cut this i can make automated micro transactions and ruin this trick to people using it.

[Hueristic]

We are still in an early beta and we haven't even started an advertising campaign and you're already talking about stagnation or loss of supporters The current users of a Node is pioneers, "salt of the earth", may be the most advanced part of cryptocommunity who versed in crypto technology and its evolution and who is able to see a few steps ahead. We build long-term system, it's not a lottery and not MLM, it's a global payment system with a certain niche in the market of money transfers.
In 2013 customers paid $ 260 billion as comission for credit card transactions. Currency exchange market has a volume $ 5 trillion per day (for comparison, the market USD/BTC is still very small - only $ 10 million (or 500,000 times less). If we will get 1-2% of that market during next couple of years it will be a good start for us.

So now you have the opportunity to support the system and get a reward at the initial stage. In the future "time forging" for network support will be available only for Master Nodes - everybody can run it, but the requirements for the connection and server will be high - 24/7 high speed connection and 10,000+ open ports. The rest will receive bonuses only for the usage of network for its intended purpose - as a payment system.

Not to be a downer but, This is not the only currency trying to fill that niche and if there is ZERO incentive to support the network then it will not happen. I support many networks and have to prioritize those. This has fallen off my support list and will stay there unless I see a light at the end of the tunnel. And with this attitude towards the pioneers as you put it then I do not see a future here and I think the price is reflecting that.

You can think what you wish but every prediction I have made has come true. Feel free to check my history if you wish.

[Nodeclub]

We are still in an early beta and we haven't even started an advertising campaign and you're already talking about stagnation or loss of supporters The current users of a Node is pioneers, "salt of the earth", may be the most advanced part of cryptocommunity who versed in crypto technology and its evolution and who is able to see a few steps ahead. We build long-term system, it's not a lottery and not MLM, it's a global payment system with a certain niche in the market of money transfers.
In 2013 customers paid $ 260 billion as comission for credit card transactions. Currency exchange market has a volume $ 5 trillion per day (for comparison, the market USD/BTC is still very small - only $ 10 million (or 500,000 times less). If we will get 1-2% of that market during next couple of years it will be a good start for us.

So now you have the opportunity to support the system and get a reward at the initial stage. In the future "time forging" for network support will be available only for Master Nodes - everybody can run it, but the requirements for the connection and server will be high - 24/7 high speed connection and 10,000+ open ports. The rest will receive bonuses only for the usage of network for its intended purpose - as a payment system.

Not to be a downer but, This is not the only currency trying to fill that niche and if there is ZERO incentive to support the network then it will not happen. I support many networks and have to prioritize those. This has fallen off my support list and will stay there unless I see a light at the end of the tunnel. And with this attitude towards the pioneers as you put it then I do not see a future here and I think the price is reflecting that.

You can think what you wish but every prediction I have made has come true. Feel free to check my history if you wish.

In this case, I have to say, this prediction will be your first miss
Actually, to be honest, there is no any predictions, there is no any price yet, there is only hardwork to do.
Lotteries are over, now only those will remain on the market who are willing to work hard and long.
One more thing: today there is only one payment coin on the market, - it isn't very successful and useful at that field, but people still use it due to infrastructure, it's name is Bitcoin.
Good luck with Your priorities

P.S. If You like a lotteries You need to try JackpotCoin.

[whitecloud]

I think everyone is well intentioned.
Probably the differences as a vision, time horizon, expectations,, experience, perhaps cultural ...
... are those that lead to different opinions.
Wait and see.