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hardcoreprime
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July 16, 2014, 02:03:23 PM |
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PilotofBTC
Legendary
 Offline
Activity: 1736
Merit: 1001
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July 16, 2014, 02:11:52 PM |
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Any thoughts on what to do if 51% of NAUT staking coins are stolen?
If that occurs can we do anything or is NAUT at the mercy of the 51% holder?
I don't think so. The best way is to set a max coin days for staking to make sure everyone keeps their wallets open. Also, educate people to not hold coins on the exchanges. Whether you move to POS or not, you have to fix the block times soon. People don't want to way hours sometimes 1/2 day for a single confirm. That said, I'd favor PoS. Actually, I think the best way to launch a coin is POW for X amount of blocks, then PoS... which is what you would end up with... even if you didn't initially plan it originally. |
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BK_PHI (OP)
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July 16, 2014, 02:17:21 PM |
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Any thoughts on what to do if 51% of NAUT staking coins are stolen?
If that occurs can we do anything or is NAUT at the mercy of the 51% holder?
I don't think so. The best way is to set a max coin days for staking to make sure everyone keeps their wallets open. Also, educate people to not hold coins on the exchanges. Whether you move to POS or not, you have to fix the block times soon. People don't want to way hours sometimes 1/2 day for a single confirm. That said, I'd favor PoS. Actually, I think the best way to launch a coin is POW for X amount of blocks, then PoS... which is what you would end up with... even if you didn't initially plan it originally. I just want to be clear - we ARE moving to PoS - there is community support. I just want to make sure we have thought of all the potential hazards and have a plan to deal with them - rather than waiting for it to rain and THEN looking for an umbrella |
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IncreaseMyT
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July 16, 2014, 02:48:37 PM |
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Remember the 180k is how much they would have to spend at the current price, but there is no way someone could buy 1.6m naut for that.
Even when the volume was 1k BTC on mintpal, 1.6 was not being traded in 24 hours.
So in reality it's going to cost far more than 180k to acquire 30% of the coins, like 10 or 20 times that amount. Then after spending 2-10 million on naut coin your plan is to dump the price?
It doesn't make sense at all to even make an attempt at buying then all, cause once you get them now who do you dump then on?
Someone acquiring 30% by purchasing them is the last thing we need to worry about with naut.
Theft is the only real concern, the focus should be put security, as Charlie Lee said the strength of a coin is the security of the network.
Do you guys remember when someone stole those BTC and dumped them down to 102 on BTCE?
The order books filled right back up, trust me I wish I got some BTC for hundred bucks this year.
Anyone who has 2 million bucks isn't wasting their time trying to crash naut.
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mdtspain
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1076
Merit: 1003
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July 16, 2014, 03:05:44 PM |
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Remember the 180k is how much they would have to spend at the current price, but there is no way someone could buy 1.6m naut for that.
Even when the volume was 1k BTC on mintpal, 1.6 was not being traded in 24 hours.
So in reality it's going to cost far more than 180k to acquire 30% of the coins, like 10 or 20 times that amount. Then after spending 2-10 million on naut coin your plan is to dump the price?
It doesn't make sense at all to even make an attempt at buying then all, cause once you get them now who do you dump then on?
Someone acquiring 30% by purchasing them is the last thing we need to worry about with naut.
Theft is the only real concern, the focus should be put security, as Charlie Lee said the strength of a coin is the security of the network.
Do you guys remember when someone stole those BTC and dumped them down to 102 on BTCE?
The order books filled right back up, trust me I wish I got some BTC for hundred bucks this year.
Anyone who has 2 million bucks isn't wasting their time trying to crash naut.
On this moment my greatest fear are the exchanges. Every time again the BS comes from them. What I don't understand is why they can't or won't make their security up to the level where it should be. There are so many exchanges for stocks, how come that they are secure and the crypto scene has all these problems? Are the exchanges scamming us? Are they really attacked by hackers? To be honest I don't believe that they are, it's an easy excuse and nobody really checks if they where really attacked. Or am I not allowed to say this?  |
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IncreaseMyT
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July 16, 2014, 03:16:37 PM |
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On this moment my greatest fear are the exchanges. Every time again the BS comes from them. What I don't understand is why they can't or won't make their security up to the level where it should be.
I agree 100%. The exchanges become part of your network, and your only as strong as your weakest link. I don't know if its possible to have some sort of agreement with them on a standard for how much they need to keep in cold storage all the time, but there should be some guidelines. Securing these links should be the biggest concern. Anyone ever tried to get Naut on BTCe? A lot of people have bad things to say about them, but I have used all exchanges and they are the most secure. |
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HKBvM
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July 16, 2014, 04:03:45 PM |
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It seems my 30% and 1.6M get used alot in this thread. I want to point out that I am nowhere near an expert on that topic and those 30% could be way off. It was the amount the attacker on C2 had.
Regarding the risk of a 51% attack. I would say that anybody with alot of money and who doesnt really care about it, could destroy most of the coins that currently exist. Obviously the lower the market cap, the higher the risk, but we just have to live with it.
Also, if you manage to buy like 30% of a POW coin, you could kill this coin, too. Not by attacking the Network, but with that amount of coins you could for example permanently dump the coin to close-zero values untill everyone loses interest. Like in the POS scenario the attacker would destroy his investment.
I think there is no way to stop somebody with tons of money who doesnt care about how much it costs him, regardless if it is POS or POW, higher marketcap helps.
One of the weakest links are the exchanges. When C2 was attacked mintpals securiy system triggered after 30% of the total supply was dumped in a short time span, which means they pretty much have none. Poloniex BTC theft in march. Now the VRC theft. Bittrex was pretty quick to stop trading when NAV was attacked, no idea if they were just lucky or they actually know what they are doing.
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Tweek
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July 16, 2014, 05:14:30 PM |
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On this moment my greatest fear are the exchanges. Every time again the BS comes from them. What I don't understand is why they can't or won't make their security up to the level where it should be. There are so many exchanges for stocks, how come that they are secure and the crypto scene has all these problems? Are the exchanges scamming us? Are they really attacked by hackers? To be honest I don't believe that they are, it's an easy excuse and nobody really checks if they where really attacked. Or am I not allowed to say this? Because exchanges that trade in normal stock also have a potential for far more money, thus making them invest more. Also, there is a higher standard defined by law before you can open an exchange that deals with money and stocks, which there is not in the world of crypto. And there is also the risk of not even getting any 'customers' after spending tens of thousands in security because crypto people follow the big mass like sheep and only go to the 'popular' exchanges. This is partly due to the number of sketchy small exchange and partly due to the fact this crypto world works based on mini-hypes. On topic: what term are you thinking about going PoS? Will there be a lengthy development process to iron out some flaws in the PoS system and make the transition smooth, or will it be a quick copy&paste from other PoS coins to create a quick mini-hype (and pump)? |
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Doging
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July 16, 2014, 05:50:15 PM |
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On this moment my greatest fear are the exchanges. Every time again the BS comes from them. What I don't understand is why they can't or won't make their security up to the level where it should be.
I agree 100%. The exchanges become part of your network, and your only as strong as your weakest link. I don't know if its possible to have some sort of agreement with them on a standard for how much they need to keep in cold storage all the time, but there should be some guidelines. Securing these links should be the biggest concern. Anyone ever tried to get Naut on BTCe? A lot of people have bad things to say about them, but I have used all exchanges and they are the most secure. Could an alert system could work? A spike in coins created would imply one of the exchanges is staking coins for example. Running algos on multiple exchanges might spread things out too and some might appreciate the volume. |
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whatdidshedo
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July 16, 2014, 05:52:34 PM |
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POW, POS < Exchanges, everything is a risk in crypto it could crash anytime, me talking a walk is a risk of getting hit by a car yet i keep doing it , let's do this POS and improve on it as technology improves.
PS: looks like Fitch wasn't the dumper LOL
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PilotofBTC
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1736
Merit: 1001
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July 16, 2014, 05:53:43 PM |
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On this moment my greatest fear are the exchanges. Every time again the BS comes from them. What I don't understand is why they can't or won't make their security up to the level where it should be.
I agree 100%. The exchanges become part of your network, and your only as strong as your weakest link. I don't know if its possible to have some sort of agreement with them on a standard for how much they need to keep in cold storage all the time, but there should be some guidelines. Securing these links should be the biggest concern. Anyone ever tried to get Naut on BTCe? A lot of people have bad things to say about them, but I have used all exchanges and they are the most secure. Could an alert system could work? A spike in coins created would imply one of the exchanges is staking coins for example. Running algos on multiple exchanges might spread things out too and some might appreciate the volume. The coin population will grow by 2% no matter how many wallets it is in. So, there will be no spike in coins. Also, I suggested some ideas and they weren't really heeded. |
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Doging
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July 16, 2014, 06:02:09 PM |
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On this moment my greatest fear are the exchanges. Every time again the BS comes from them. What I don't understand is why they can't or won't make their security up to the level where it should be.
I agree 100%. The exchanges become part of your network, and your only as strong as your weakest link. I don't know if its possible to have some sort of agreement with them on a standard for how much they need to keep in cold storage all the time, but there should be some guidelines. Securing these links should be the biggest concern. Anyone ever tried to get Naut on BTCe? A lot of people have bad things to say about them, but I have used all exchanges and they are the most secure. Could an alert system could work? A spike in coins created would imply one of the exchanges is staking coins for example. Running algos on multiple exchanges might spread things out too and some might appreciate the volume. The coin population will grow by 2% no matter how many wallets it is in. So, there will be no spike in coins. Also, I suggested some ideas and they weren't really heeded. Are you referring to max coin days or the discussion earlier about extra incentives? |
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PilotofBTC
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1736
Merit: 1001
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July 16, 2014, 06:03:53 PM |
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On this moment my greatest fear are the exchanges. Every time again the BS comes from them. What I don't understand is why they can't or won't make their security up to the level where it should be.
I agree 100%. The exchanges become part of your network, and your only as strong as your weakest link. I don't know if its possible to have some sort of agreement with them on a standard for how much they need to keep in cold storage all the time, but there should be some guidelines. Securing these links should be the biggest concern. Anyone ever tried to get Naut on BTCe? A lot of people have bad things to say about them, but I have used all exchanges and they are the most secure. Could an alert system could work? A spike in coins created would imply one of the exchanges is staking coins for example. Running algos on multiple exchanges might spread things out too and some might appreciate the volume. The coin population will grow by 2% no matter how many wallets it is in. So, there will be no spike in coins. Also, I suggested some ideas and they weren't really heeded. Are you referring to max coin days or the discussion earlier about extra incentives? Yes, Max coin days. I don't see a need for "extra" incentives. Although, I guess they can't hurt. |
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Doging
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July 16, 2014, 06:19:11 PM |
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On this moment my greatest fear are the exchanges. Every time again the BS comes from them. What I don't understand is why they can't or won't make their security up to the level where it should be.
I agree 100%. The exchanges become part of your network, and your only as strong as your weakest link. I don't know if its possible to have some sort of agreement with them on a standard for how much they need to keep in cold storage all the time, but there should be some guidelines. Securing these links should be the biggest concern. Anyone ever tried to get Naut on BTCe? A lot of people have bad things to say about them, but I have used all exchanges and they are the most secure. Could an alert system could work? A spike in coins created would imply one of the exchanges is staking coins for example. Running algos on multiple exchanges might spread things out too and some might appreciate the volume. The coin population will grow by 2% no matter how many wallets it is in. So, there will be no spike in coins. Also, I suggested some ideas and they weren't really heeded. Are you referring to max coin days or the discussion earlier about extra incentives? Yes, Max coin days. I don't see a need for "extra" incentives. Although, I guess they can't hurt. Will there be a minimum stake age? |
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FlyingMongoose
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July 16, 2014, 06:36:21 PM |
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On this moment my greatest fear are the exchanges. Every time again the BS comes from them. What I don't understand is why they can't or won't make their security up to the level where it should be.
I agree 100%. The exchanges become part of your network, and your only as strong as your weakest link. I don't know if its possible to have some sort of agreement with them on a standard for how much they need to keep in cold storage all the time, but there should be some guidelines. Securing these links should be the biggest concern. Anyone ever tried to get Naut on BTCe? A lot of people have bad things to say about them, but I have used all exchanges and they are the most secure. Could an alert system could work? A spike in coins created would imply one of the exchanges is staking coins for example. Running algos on multiple exchanges might spread things out too and some might appreciate the volume. The coin population will grow by 2% no matter how many wallets it is in. So, there will be no spike in coins. Also, I suggested some ideas and they weren't really heeded. Are you referring to max coin days or the discussion earlier about extra incentives? Yes, Max coin days. I don't see a need for "extra" incentives. Although, I guess they can't hurt. Will there be a minimum stake age? I've been wondering the same thing, but if the goal here is to make it applicable similar to an investment which will pay out a solid enough return on the investment, it should operate somewhat like a bank savings account (they don't wait days/weeks/months for your money to be in there to start trying to earn interest on it, they start right away). But we'll see.
Don't forget to donate to the Facebook advertisement campaign (by hardcoreprime a.k.a. hcp) NftgUJjAWDcbCHNpEQD2ASGG5PhP36yVuk Don't forget to vote http://www.btc38.com/trade/vote_for_trade.htmlhttps://bter.com/votinghttps://hitbtc.com/votehttps://www.swaphole.com/#!votinghttp://www.betbycoin.com/coinvotes/ |
qoinpro.com/951c974b34f66cc68e805832df0c9d8c
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Doging
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July 16, 2014, 06:42:19 PM |
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On this moment my greatest fear are the exchanges. Every time again the BS comes from them. What I don't understand is why they can't or won't make their security up to the level where it should be.
I agree 100%. The exchanges become part of your network, and your only as strong as your weakest link. I don't know if its possible to have some sort of agreement with them on a standard for how much they need to keep in cold storage all the time, but there should be some guidelines. Securing these links should be the biggest concern. Anyone ever tried to get Naut on BTCe? A lot of people have bad things to say about them, but I have used all exchanges and they are the most secure. Could an alert system could work? A spike in coins created would imply one of the exchanges is staking coins for example. Running algos on multiple exchanges might spread things out too and some might appreciate the volume. The coin population will grow by 2% no matter how many wallets it is in. So, there will be no spike in coins. Also, I suggested some ideas and they weren't really heeded. Are you referring to max coin days or the discussion earlier about extra incentives? Yes, Max coin days. I don't see a need for "extra" incentives. Although, I guess they can't hurt. Will there be a minimum stake age? I've been wondering the same thing, but if the goal here is to make it applicable similar to an investment which will pay out a solid enough return on the investment, it should operate somewhat like a bank savings account (they don't wait days/weeks/months for your money to be in there to start trying to earn interest on it, they start right away). But we'll see.
Don't forget to donate to the Facebook advertisement campaign (by hardcoreprime a.k.a. hcp) NftgUJjAWDcbCHNpEQD2ASGG5PhP36yVuk Don't forget to vote http://www.btc38.com/trade/vote_for_trade.htmlhttps://bter.com/votinghttps://hitbtc.com/votehttps://www.swaphole.com/#!votinghttp://www.betbycoin.com/coinvotes/If it's too long people might not bother, too short and no incentive to keep coins off exchange. 7-10 days seems reasonable to me. |
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PilotofBTC
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1736
Merit: 1001
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July 16, 2014, 07:03:47 PM |
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I think a 24-48 hour minimum coin age would be appropriate.
For max coin age, I would say somewhere around 7-10 days. Although, maybe that is a bit too long. We want people to keep there nodes running.
I think one thing that would help is allowing a locked wallet to stake. Not all coins allow this, and keeping an unlocked wallet running on your PC is quite risky even with a good strong PC password and ensuring you are locking your PC whenever you walk away from it, even at home.
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scrypto
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July 16, 2014, 07:17:04 PM |
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I think one thing that would help is allowing a locked wallet to stake. Not all coins allow this, and keeping an unlocked wallet running on your PC is quite risky even with a good strong PC password and ensuring you are locking your PC whenever you walk away from it, even at home.
totally agree. |
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BK_PHI (OP)
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July 16, 2014, 07:18:19 PM |
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I think a 24-48 hour minimum coin age would be appropriate.
For max coin age, I would say somewhere around 7-10 days. Although, maybe that is a bit too long. We want people to keep there nodes running.
I think one thing that would help is allowing a locked wallet to stake. Not all coins allow this, and keeping an unlocked wallet running on your PC is quite risky even with a good strong PC password and ensuring you are locking your PC whenever you walk away from it, even at home.
Why wouldn't a coin allow a locked wallet? |
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