[ANN][GRE] GreenCoin | On Bittrex now!

[biodieselchris]

I was just going back through really old BCT forum posts for fun. Stuff like this is amazing:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=25.msg118#msg118

https://blockchain.info/address/1BHtsCnpmTvpgJEP7eMKEVhpJFunxSM8vq

[Lightsplasher]

I was just going back through really old BCT forum posts for fun. Stuff like this is amazing:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=25.msg118#msg118

https://blockchain.info/address/1BHtsCnpmTvpgJEP7eMKEVhpJFunxSM8vq

What one man can do another man can do.  Bitcoin holds no monopoly on block chains and I think eventually people might figure this one out; it doesn't seem like it would take a rocket scientist.    

May all beings be free from suffering and have just enough success for extreme happiness but not so much that it binds them up by the curse of opulence so badly as to require them to spend their days in gated communities far from their relatives and other unscrupulous people.  Brew ha ha ha...  

I appreciate your generous donation for PoB and I'll keep it until clean abundant energy becomes the norm, or I get bored, cold or broke – every buyer needs a seller right?

I'm feeling a bit disappointed that no one else wanted to ride with us.  But no worries, I'm not sure I'd want to ride with myself based on my rather odd sense of humor and generally eclectic nature.  Maybe next time someone else will start up a ride.

[kbroadfoot]

Delisting might happen on Bittrex:

"This market is in danger of de-listing due to low trade volume and lack of user interest. It may be removed on December 19th unless the average daily trade volume for the last 7 days exceeds 0.2 BTC."

Mine @ simplemulti... make sure your payout is set to a greencoin address... this is WHERE they buy and sell the GRE...

If we mine, the volume will increase...

Or go buy and sell some...

[Lightsplasher]

Delisting might happen on Bittrex:

"This market is in danger of de-listing due to low trade volume and lack of user interest. It may be removed on December 19th unless the average daily trade volume for the last 7 days exceeds 0.2 BTC."

Mine @ simplemulti... make sure your payout is set to a greencoin address... this is WHERE they buy and sell the GRE...

If we mine, the volume will increase...

Or go buy and sell some...

This happens on Bittrex from time it time.  It seems to be helpful to keep things flowing; volume is important.  There's a couple other coins I'm interested in purchase right now but I'll try to add some more GRE too; seems like a good time to buy but I don't have a magic crystal ball.

[SamWalters]

How can you solve green problems?

[biodieselchris]

How can you solve green problems?

check out the FAQ here. I can get into a lot more detail if you have any specific questions.

[biodieselchris]

It would be helpful if folks could email Bittrex and let them know you support GreenCoin and want it to remain active.

[hopenotlate]

It would be helpful if folks could email Bittrex and let them know you support GreenCoin and want it to remain active.

it would be also better to raise some trades there 

[biodieselchris]

It would be helpful if folks could email Bittrex and let them know you support GreenCoin and want it to remain active.

oddly with the price down around 3 satoshi, and that price is low obviously, but GRE begins to price carbon for close to what it might be "worth." Per kg it prices CO2 at:

3 satoshi * 1e-8 (BTC/satoshi) * 31,262.22 GRE per kg CO2 * 352 $/BTC = $0.33 per kg CO2

This is equivalent to $2.97 per gallon of gas or $0.36 per kWh produced purely by coal. That is, if you wanted to offset the carbon of utilizing these sources, that would be the cost of the carbon. Obviously GRE is an open market system, so it doesn't require a gov't agency to step in and force a coal company to buy the coins. Instead, it rewards the solar producer or the biofuel producer for offsetting carbon difference with a payment in newly minted GRE, for free. The demand comes from environmentally conscious carbon buyers who want to hold GRE (CO2) for purposes of creating a better world (and doing so with an asset that can change in value, and if it goes up, make a return). If a biofuel producer can receive GRE at the source for producing the biofuel and sell it at parity with gas or diesel at the pump (say $2.50), then they essentially make $5.47 in revenue per gallon. This is how we think we solve the global carbon problem - by adding a social value to the carbon offset for renewable producers. In turn, more producer come on board to receive a piece of the GRE distribution, furthering carbon reduction.

In a global sense, anthropogenic emissions total 35 Gigatonnes, or 35,000 billion kg of CO2. That's a big number, but what does it mean? Well the GDP last year was ~$85 trillion, or $85,000 billion. At $0.33 per kg CO2, 35 GT of emissions = $11.6 trillion or 13.6% of the GDP. The question becomes, is this the price of carbon? The market decides ultimately, but if carbon affects the GDP more than this figure (in terms of net negative climate change affecting productivity) than carbon needs to be more expensive, if it is less than the price should be cheaper.

Another way to look at this number is dividing carbon output by the GDP which equals 0.41 kg CO2 to produce $1 in GDP (equal to 13.6 cents per $1). The mechanism with which GreenCoin has been designed to work is to lower the kg CO2 per $1 in GDP by affecting BOTH sides of this equation: decreasing the carbon output (by incentivizing renewables with free coins) and increasing productivity (GreenCoin does not punish coal and gas like gov't cap and trade and carbon taxes do) instead of hurting it. GreenCoin = LESS carbon and MORE productivity.

Let's consider distributing carbon over the entire global population. There's 7.2 billion folks on the planet so if the mean emission per capita is 4,861 kg CO2 per year, or 13.3 kg per day. Americans produce about 17 tonnes per capita per year, and there is disparate carbon production around the world for sure, so I put that in as well:

Region	kg CO2 per year	kg CO2 per day	GRE per day	USD per day
Global	4,861	13.32	416,000	$4.40
United States	17,000	46.58	1,456,000	$15.38

The world can offset their carbon for $4.40 per day per person, on average, at the current price. Adjusted for actual output, US residents would need to invest $15.38 per day or $5,612 annual each at the current $0.33 per kg of CO2 price of carbon to offset their carbon output with the commensurate productivity outlay.

[kbroadfoot]

Delisting might happen on Bittrex:

"This market is in danger of de-listing due to low trade volume and lack of user interest. It may be removed on December 19th unless the average daily trade volume for the last 7 days exceeds 0.2 BTC."

Mine @ simplemulti... make sure your payout is set to a greencoin address... this is WHERE they buy and sell the GRE...

If we mine, the volume will increase...

Or go buy and sell some...

Quoting myself

The reason this ( the drop in value ) has happened is partially simplemulti's fault... they made GRE a conversion coin for people mining on other coin-type addresses...

I can now mine ANC @ simple multi... and all the merge mine coins get converted to ANC...  that means they are putting HUGE sell pressure on GRE...

( simplemulti does all their business @ bittrex )

We need to 'convince' Bittrex to keep GRE on other grounds besides trade volume...
This is a sort of thing we can't solve easily...

[biodieselchris]

Delisting might happen on Bittrex:

"This market is in danger of de-listing due to low trade volume and lack of user interest. It may be removed on December 19th unless the average daily trade volume for the last 7 days exceeds 0.2 BTC."

Mine @ simplemulti... make sure your payout is set to a greencoin address... this is WHERE they buy and sell the GRE...

If we mine, the volume will increase...

Or go buy and sell some...

Quoting myself

The reason this ( the drop in value ) has happened is partially simplemulti's fault... they made GRE a conversion coin for people mining on other coin-type addresses...

I can now mine ANC @ simple multi... and all the merge mine coins get converted to ANC...  that means they are putting HUGE sell pressure on GRE...

( simplemulti does all their business @ bittrex )

We need to 'convince' Bittrex to keep GRE on other grounds besides trade volume...
This is a sort of thing we can't solve easily...

Well they want a coin to have 0.2 BTC per day average over 7 days which is 1.4 BTC total right (or does every day need to be above 0.2?). If they take 0.25% fees that only equals 0.0035 BTC per week, or ~$1.25. Certainly if I paid $1300 to get on the exchange I would give them this weekly to stay on it.

[Lightsplasher]

Boy it pains me to see this happening to this coin it has so much going for it.  If Bittrex drops the coin it might be a blessing in disguise anyway.  It would give some time to get reorganized and build some buying pressure.

If this coin is merged mined, why the need to give have half the block reward to the miners, why not take most of the block reward for the biofuel or solar producers and add PoS to attract investors and secure the block chain?  It appears that most of this mining community does not seem too supportive of environmental concerns and I'm doubtful that paying them generously is moving things forward at this point.

I would even think about doing a complete coin block chain lobotomy and start fresh with a PoS only coin.  Offer to pay out some of the initial coins of the new coin to the holders of the GRE coin at some high ratio and use the rest for the foundation to generate interest with and pay the producers.  Just don't pay out so fast that the price plummets faster than you can say “run for the bank” and all the investors get scared.

I would say this is a key statement...

... The demand comes from environmentally conscious carbon buyers ...

but there are few completely altruistic carbon purchasers and investors and producers need some faith in price points.

How can you solve green problems?

Nice to see you here SamWalters, this coin could use some of your marketing magic.    If the pricing reflected the true global cost/benefits I would think this coin would top bitcoin in value because clean energy can generate all sorts of things from healthy people to happy planet.

[biodieselchris]

GreenCoin being backed in carbon means you can trade it like carbon and not just this altcoin nonsense. for example, here is the Allcoin market:






And here is what the exact same trading data could look like as part of a carbon trading website:







A site like this is a first: it's basically coin-agnostic. Users trade carbon not coins (and greencoin becomes the backend mechanism the carbon exchanging runs on top of). Note that all this takes is using the Allcoin data and multiplying BTC by the exchange rate to get $ amount, and the GreenCoin / Carbon exchange rate to get the amount of carbon (currently 31323.95 GRE per kg CO2). Otherwise it is the exact same data. To some extent I agree with Lightsplasher that Bittrex ultimately isn't really necessary, and they would actually be a competitor. But it is nice to have an exchange now so folks can buy now if they like the coin or the overall idea and there can be some adoption of the coin throughout the altcoin community (which hasn't happened much to date).

An open market, private-ownership peer-to-peer carbon offset asset currently exists exactly nowhere in the world today. I'm drinking my own kool-aid, so take that as a caveat, but in my opinion, there is a HUGE, untapped phantom market bursting at the seams to get their hands on something like this credit. And for me? I don't really care if someone else did it, I'll just run the Foundation and make sure the coin has the necessary carbon integrity. Somebody could make a lot of money or an exchange or carbon service like this: somebody with a good web dev team (integrating the customer experience with the carbon story is critical) and really crafty marketing.

Also, the mining conundrum was always an element we thought starting out would be broached downstream; either go PoS or some other solution, depending on the risks versus rewards (PoS does have some double spending concerns I've read right?). I don't feel a coin reboot is necessary. The folks that have been involved up until now deserve their stake for their effort and time, and given the size of the ecosystem. forking in some code changes would be acceptable. We did this back at block 150k when panda added merged mining.

[Lightsplasher]

Nice website ideas!  It shows the relationship well between the two values.

It kind of fails the honey test though, you know, “honey, I bought you some CO2 for Christmas”  “Thanks dear, but I wish you would quit smoking all that carbon I think its addled your brain”.    Maybe it is just me but I'm kind of confused about the whole concept of buying carbon to pay for carbon offsets?  Say I bought $20 of GRE at 16 sat and now it is worth 1 sat, where did the $20 go?

But I do think your right in that there is a huge untapped market waiting for this but I'm thinking it could be mostly from larger non-profit institutions and government agencies unless the benefits can be explained very simply and clearly.  These tend to be the antithesis of anarchist coin mining rebels, “Vive la distributed autonomous processes! Down with the plutocracy!”.

Some good marketing support could really be helpful.  “Love your planet dude, buy some carbon” Unfortunately I try to be helpful but lack a certain “tact?” that marketing requires, hopefully I haven't done more harm than good, my intentions are to be of help.

Just putting some suggestions out there, changing the coin structure (adding CPU mining and PoS) worked well for the magic coin community as XMG has really taken off where as the original scrypt only mined coin nearly lost all value when the asics hit the market.  If a coin swap is done correctly you can certainly benefit your core supporters as their value will grow if the new coin structure does well.  My reasoning for possibly doing a coin swap is from figuring that you will need some way of funding the foundation if you are not getting coins from the block rewards but certainly a hard fork of the coin is an easier thing to accomplish.

As always just my 2 cents worth, I hope I'm not way off base with what your trying to do.

[biodieselchris]

Nice website ideas!  It shows the relationship well between the two values. It kind of fails the honey test though, you know, “honey, I bought you some CO2 for Christmas”  “Thanks dear, but I wish you would quit smoking all that carbon I think its addled your brain”. Maybe it is just me but I'm kind of confused about the whole concept of buying carbon to pay for carbon offsets?  Say I bought $20 of GRE at 16 sat and now it is worth 1 sat, where did the $20 go?

Sounds like the perfect Xmas gift to me!   For the record carbon and carbon offsets are the same thing - you're buying the offset. I sometimes use these terms interchangeably. If the price goes up or down you have a capital gain or loss (like a stock). In your example you could also buy at 1 satoshi and sell at 16 as well, though we haven't seen the price going up lately unfortunately. Adoption will help IMO.

But I do think you're right in that there is a huge untapped market waiting for this but I'm thinking it could be mostly from larger non-profit institutions and government agencies unless the benefits can be explained very simply and clearly.  These tend to be the antithesis of anarchist coin mining rebels, “Vive la distributed autonomous processes! Down with the plutocracy!”.

Larger for-profits, non-profits and even gov's could eventually be buyers, however the coin is definitely designed to be empowerment for the little people. It's for the small solar guys and biofuels upstarts that need carbon credits that big entities trade with each other (albeit the gov makes them, which ultimately is a non-starter). No one can really control you owning it (like bitcoin) or trading it between each other, or holding a 5M winner-take-all poker night with your friends.

Some good marketing support could really be helpful.  “Love your planet dude, buy some carbon” Unfortunately I try to be helpful but lack a certain “tact?” that marketing requires, hopefully I haven't done more harm than good, my intentions are to be of help.

Good marketing: I cannot agree more. It will be tough to figure out how to "message" carbon and then one day it will suddenly be super easy. That day has not yet arrived.

Just putting some suggestions out there, changing the coin structure (adding CPU mining and PoS) worked well for the magic coin community as XMG has really taken off where as the original scrypt only mined coin nearly lost all value when the asics hit the market.  If a coin swap is done correctly you can certainly benefit your core supporters as their value will grow if the new coin structure does well.  My reasoning for possibly doing a coin swap is from figuring that you will need some way of funding the foundation if you are not getting coins from the block rewards but certainly a hard fork of the coin is an easier thing to accomplish.

I think PoS is a definite eventuality. It is not in my wheelhouse to do such things though so I would need to reach out and find someone interested in consulting on the project (if you know anyone send them my way).

As always just my 2 cents worth, I hope I'm not way off base with what your trying to do.

Good stuff, keep it coming, and glad you're interested.

[Digithusiast]

Did ncsupanda go for his winter sleep?

[ncsupanda]

Did ncsupanda go for his winter sleep?

I'm working patiently.

Be excited.

[AllCryptoAllDay]

Awesome a coin that has a purpose to help the world... Count me in tweet anything to me about this coin and i will retweet it https://twitter.com/AllCryptoAllDay

Love helping coins with purpose especially the environment any actual steps being taken to contact green peace or any of the big enviro players?

[biodieselchris]

Awesome a coin that has a purpose to help the world... Count me in tweet anything to me about this coin and i will retweet it https://twitter.com/AllCryptoAllDay

Love helping coins with purpose especially the environment any actual steps being taken to contact green peace or any of the big enviro players?

Thanks AllCrypto -- I'll send you some tweets. We're happy you share our enthusiasm for making a difference for the environment. It means a lot to us to help with our imperative. We've talked to Sierra Club and a few other players and are building a little bit of traction.

[AllCryptoAllDay]

Awesome a coin that has a purpose to help the world... Count me in tweet anything to me about this coin and i will retweet it https://twitter.com/AllCryptoAllDay

Love helping coins with purpose especially the environment any actual steps being taken to contact green peace or any of the big enviro players?

Thanks AllCrypto -- I'll send you some tweets. We're happy you share our enthusiasm for making a difference for the environment. It means a lot to us to help with our imperative. We've talked to Sierra Club and a few other players and are building a little bit of traction.

Awesome man I'm down if people like us don't make a difference who will?