[ANN] [CLOAK] Cloakcoin | No Premine | X13 | Decentralized Market and PoSA

[igor107th]

x11joe wat you tink is the best for us i think
good def whit good future go slow to the top
70 dollar cloak    lol

[Givatoshi_Moremoto]

:: One Market ::

I just wanted to point out some hidden benefits to OneJury.

In the past on craigslist there were lots of fake posts, like a post selling a TV and then you would get a hooker instead.

With OneJury this would be solved, and so in that regard makes the buyers experience much nicer going through the market.

OneJury does more then just stop illegal morally wrong postings is the point here, it helps stop spam too.

This means a copycat coin without OneJury would be victim to a lot of fake posts going on in there and possibly give a horrible user experience.

So we could keep OneJury but do private listings thus making a compromise possibly? Private listings would have same cost as doing any other listing + average OneJury Fee maybe?

How about keeping the Onejury for regular stuff and have Dark listing option that bypass the Onejury and seller pays HIGH fees (with mandatory trustless escrow) and have to click disclaimer that all illegal activity in dark market is the seller's legal obligation not the developer?

[trdiablo]

So, what happened to the buy support for Cloak? 
It looks like CLOAK will go back to 75000

[Coolstoryteller]

So, what happened to the buy support for Cloak? 
It looks like CLOAK will go back to 75000

Never trust those charts. There's plenty of lurkers there in wait.

[yogibaer]

So, what happened to the buy support for Cloak? 
It looks like CLOAK will go back to 75000
 

No problem. Will go back to 70k then start the rise to 150k 200k 300k ....

[blg425]

So, what happened to the buy support for Cloak? 
It looks like CLOAK will go back to 75000
 

No problem. Will go back to 70k then start the rise to 150k 200k 300k ....

I hope it goes back down. I didn't pick up enough. I would love to get some CLOAK that cheap.

[Seio1]

:: One Market ::

I just wanted to point out some hidden benefits to OneJury.

In the past on craigslist there were lots of fake posts, like a post selling a TV and then you would get a hooker instead.

With OneJury this would be solved, and so in that regard makes the buyers experience much nicer going through the market.

OneJury does more then just stop illegal morally wrong postings is the point here, it helps stop spam too.

This means a copycat coin without OneJury would be victim to a lot of fake posts going on in there and possibly give a horrible user experience.

So we could keep OneJury but do private listings thus making a compromise possibly? Private listings would have same cost as doing any other listing + average OneJury Fee maybe?

How about keeping the Onejury for regular stuff and have Dark listing option that bypass the Onejury and seller pays HIGH fees (with mandatory trustless escrow) and have to click disclaimer that all illegal activity in dark market is the seller's legal obligation not the developer?

The high fees don't resolve the issue of illegal items being openly present and accessible in the main public market. Thus private listings without ability to freely advertise them within the GUI, keeping the market "clean" from that stuff for the average user. Also as the safety measure for the devs, securing them from any legal issues. No one is openly (nor devs willingly allow to) advertising the "dark" stuff, and no random person actually have idea about some specific items being present on the market.

[YackBallz]

At this point I wouldn't say cloak's price represents the value of PoSA or OneMarket. I think it represents the value of the hope people have in the developers, the belief that they will release what they say they will, and that they'll come up with more great ideas in the future. So if/when PoSA does finally debut a lot of the hope-value will be replaced with the marginal utility of what PoSA can do. Perhaps it may be in the Cloak Community's best interest to roll out PoSA and OneMarket in close proximity so that there isn't a drop off in price momentum.

[nicklucky123]

There is an update today!

[smokim87]

There is an update today!

Source please?

[madmanbts]

If OneMarket will be opensource then the devs can not be held responsible for whatever the users do with the software, even if it is illegal stuff. Also remember that this is a world market and not all drugs are illegal everywhere so you can't push out of the market all the people who live in a more free environment than the western world.

Anonimity feature is a niche feature, and it is best suited for illegal activities. Say a user will not want to break any law then why would he chose cloak over bitcoin? There is no reason. Bitcoin is already being used successfully on the dark markets and in great volumes. Building Onemarket in such a way that only legal content can be sold will defeat the purpose of cloak coin.

Using private listings will create the need for third party sites that will list those adds in a searchable way also defeating the purpose of decentralization and not actually solving any problem.

The best way to make it work is to have OneJury as a option. If I am a user that is not interested in illegal stuff I will check OneJury option so that only reviewed listings will show in my results. If I wish to buy some drugs I will uncheck the option and all listings will show up in results.

Adding a listing should cost the same fee all over to prevent spam, but not all listings should be reviewed.

[k0rpa]

ben lawsky wants to buy cheap cloak...

btw, nice promotion of cloak among interesting comments on lawsy statement on reddit, gj

this is first crypto i truly believe in, i'm a miner not trader, dont have much but still hodling, gonna be huge!

[Givatoshi_Moremoto]

:: One Market ::

I just wanted to point out some hidden benefits to OneJury.

In the past on craigslist there were lots of fake posts, like a post selling a TV and then you would get a hooker instead.

With OneJury this would be solved, and so in that regard makes the buyers experience much nicer going through the market.

OneJury does more then just stop illegal morally wrong postings is the point here, it helps stop spam too.

This means a copycat coin without OneJury would be victim to a lot of fake posts going on in there and possibly give a horrible user experience.

So we could keep OneJury but do private listings thus making a compromise possibly? Private listings would have same cost as doing any other listing + average OneJury Fee maybe?

How about keeping the Onejury for regular stuff and have Dark listing option that bypass the Onejury and seller pays HIGH fees (with mandatory trustless escrow) and have to click disclaimer that all illegal activity in dark market is the seller's legal obligation not the developer?

The high fees don't resolve the issue of illegal items being openly present and accessible in the main public market. Thus private listings without ability to freely advertise them within the GUI, keeping the market "clean" from that stuff for the average user. Also as the safety measure for the devs, securing them from any legal issues. No one is openly (nor devs willingly allow to) advertising the "dark" stuff, and no random person actually have idea about some specific items being present on the market.

I thought about it little more, since last suggestion was posted without much thought.

I guess what I'm suggesting is this,

there would be 2 markets where user have to choose before entering the market.

1. One market - with One jury and other goodies devs talked about in white paper.
2. Cloaked market
- In order to access this market place, users (seller and buyers) must read and click legal disclaimer.
- where anything goes sorta place where users use it at their risk.
- no onejury is needed here since its for illegal stuff.
- high fees are just a way to reward POS stakers at the seller expense, but not really important.

I'm not a lawyer nor I claim to have any idea about legal issues here, anyone know if this has legal implication for the developers just because they are providing a market place where anything can be sold at users discretion?

If I had to choose, I would opt for anything goes approach. It fit better with anon concept I think.

P.S why open source? is it really necessary? I thoght PoSA was gonna be kept closed to prevent copy cats? why not keep them all closed?

[nicklucky123]

CLOAK will have a huge rise when PoSA release, may be $2   

[madmanbts]

Only the market should be open source, and this is only to protect devs. They can release the software sort of like a proof of concept. Then anybody can take it and use it as they best see fit and assume all responsibility for their own legal or illegal actions.

If the market is closed source, than the devs can be held accountable, and at the very least, be obligated to remove the software but they can possibly even face legal consequences. They can be prosecuted as the operators of illegal activities and this is because in a closed source software the developers have control over what happens. This is not the case with a open source, as once the source is out in the open there is no way to control what the users will use it for.

If they release as open source they will renounce control but they also renounce any responsibility. If bitcoin had been released closed source then satoshi nakamoto would be in jail by now.

[Collegestudent]

Only the market should be open source, and this is only to protect devs. They can release the software sort of like a proof of concept. Then anybody can take it and use it as they best see fit and assume all responsibility for their own legal or illegal actions.

If the market is closed source, than the devs can be held accountable, and at the very least, be obligated to remove the software but they can possibly even face legal consequences. They can be prosecuted as the operators of illegal activities and this is because in a closed source software the developers have control over what happens. This is not the case with a open source, as once the source is out in the open there is no way to control what the users will use it for.

If they release as open source they will renounce control but they also renounce any responsibility. If bitcoin had been released closed source then satoshi nakamoto would be in jail by now.

Bitcoin was a massive profit but he chose to keep it open sourced. For this one feature i hope u keep it open source

[rustynailer]

You cant call it OneMarket and then have two markets and It must be anything goes. You can search illegal content on Google, they dont stop you. Its up to the person using the software if they use it for illegal activities. It must be open for people to use it without regulation otherwise what is the point of the coin  -  Google doesn't have 1 site for legal content and 1 for illegal.

[madmanbts]

Also OneMarket should be viewed as a tool to increase the Cloak currency velocity and to provide a way to spend the currency thus increasing demand and consecutively increasing price of the cloak currency. The real thing that matters is the anon feature. Darknet users will migrate to cloak only if it is the best at providing anonymity. So PosA is the feature that needs to be closed source at least for a while, but the market does not need to be closed source.

There is also the possibility that other decentralized markets will be developed that will allow the use of multiple currencies. If this will be the case then, again, the coin that will win will be the one that has the most secure anonymity feature.

[Seio1]

:: One Market ::

I just wanted to point out some hidden benefits to OneJury.

In the past on craigslist there were lots of fake posts, like a post selling a TV and then you would get a hooker instead.

With OneJury this would be solved, and so in that regard makes the buyers experience much nicer going through the market.

OneJury does more then just stop illegal morally wrong postings is the point here, it helps stop spam too.

This means a copycat coin without OneJury would be victim to a lot of fake posts going on in there and possibly give a horrible user experience.

So we could keep OneJury but do private listings thus making a compromise possibly? Private listings would have same cost as doing any other listing + average OneJury Fee maybe?

How about keeping the Onejury for regular stuff and have Dark listing option that bypass the Onejury and seller pays HIGH fees (with mandatory trustless escrow) and have to click disclaimer that all illegal activity in dark market is the seller's legal obligation not the developer?

The high fees don't resolve the issue of illegal items being openly present and accessible in the main public market. Thus private listings without ability to freely advertise them within the GUI, keeping the market "clean" from that stuff for the average user. Also as the safety measure for the devs, securing them from any legal issues. No one is openly (nor devs willingly allow to) advertising the "dark" stuff, and no random person actually have idea about some specific items being present on the market.

I thought about it little more, since last suggestion was posted without much thought.

I guess what I'm suggesting is this,

there would be 2 markets where user have to choose before entering the market.

1. One market - with One jury and other goodies devs talked about in white paper.
2. Cloaked market
- In order to access this market place, users (seller and buyers) must read and click legal disclaimer.
- where anything goes sorta place where users use it at their risk.
- no onejury is needed here since its for illegal stuff.
- high fees are just a way to reward POS stakers at the seller expense, but not really important.

I'm not a lawyer nor I claim to have any idea about legal issues here, anyone know if this has legal implication for the developers just because they are providing a market place where anything can be sold at users discretion?

If I had to choose, I would opt for anything goes approach. It fit better with anon concept I think.

P.S why open source? is it really necessary? I thoght PoSA was gonna be kept closed to prevent copy cats? why not keep them all closed?

Well, there was an idea discussed on the IRC about Cloak source being released some time in the future, after the whole ecosystem gets well established and less impacted by the copycats. Meanwhile as long as it stays closed source, developers hold the responsibility for any illegal items being offered and openly advertised on the market, because they hold the keys to the system. And probably simple "clicking" a disclaimer won't take away the danger of putting themselves in legally shaky ground. Although I'm not a lawyer either.
So I keep my position. Don't reject the dark market part, but make it harder to access those items. Obfuscate it for the average user, so untill the ownership and responsibillity is released from the devs by going open source, no legal institution can hold them responsible for allowing such items to be advertised. As I called it while chatting with x11joe...

"[10:32] <Seio1> private listings would simply give darkmarketers a room of their own withing the onemarket ecosystem. hidden/away from the general public side of it. no need to impose any extra fees on them. the demand for the coin itself would reconcile this."

[ozkraut]

OneMarket = OneMarket

but: consider using a top level hierarchy filter eg Light, Dark. To change filter to Dark (or All) display a highly generic disclaimer / notice / eula that some content may offend / or be against the law in your jurisdiction and to enter at your own risk & responsibility bla bla etc etc.