Nexus - Pure SHA3 + CPU/GPU + nPoS + 15 Active Innovations + More to Come

[gjhiggins]

I was using one of the suggestion that was given:
"1. A coin is an exact copy of another, besides name."

Have it your way, it's your funeral; garbage in, garbage out. It was either an obvious troll or from a naif.

If anyone else wants to define what a shitcoin is please post.

No-one can produce a recognisably satisfactory definition of [shit]coin because there isn't one to be derived, just as there's no derivable definition for Art.

This isn't a technological issue, it's an epistemological one. Membership of the category that you label [shit]coin does not admit of either an intensional or an extensional definition but only of an ostensive definition. The wikipedia entry will tell you all you need to know. The deliberately heavy-handed humour used to lace the OP text may well have created a context for quasi-ostension, exacerbating the problem.

No-one was ever going to able to produce an intensional definition of [shit]coin and by prodding you hard in this soft area, I hoped to make you think a lot harder about what you're planning to do. The one thing that can be pretty much guaranteed about an ostensive definition is that the process is inherently strongly social, I was hoping you would eventually arrive at that insight. Unfortunately, the tech community is by and large painfully innocent of how much additional grief they incur from the proudly-held ignorance of the tools developed by the much-sneered-at "soft sciences" and this is a classic example.

Fortunately, there's an exit, a re-framing of the process to invert the control, allow coins to petition to be rescued. The petitioners are making the categorisation and if the CoinShield process works as expected, investors will press for petitions to be opened, there will be competition to get a petition accepted, arguments will be more focused and effective, voting will become a popular contributive activity. And when CoinShield later subtly repositions itself to become the first to offer insurance to altcoin operators, no-one will be in the least bit surprised.

Cheers

Graham

[1715379776]

1715379776

[1715379776]

1715379776

[Videlicet]

Graham,

I am in complete agreement with your notion of an "ostensive definition" being the only probable way to convey the meaning of [shit]coin.
I will ponder this.

~Videlicet

[Bitcoinasourus]

I like the idea of this coin.

We really don't need half of the coins out there. The nomination idea, is similar to how many DDOS groups operate.

I have some hash rate i'll put in for this.

I am up in the air about algo though. I like GRS because my equipment runs cooler. But having some scrypt asics on board would sure help to kill small hasrate coins. Or am I misunderstanding how the "kill" process will work?

is the plan to mine and dump or fork the block chain?


The nomination process doesn't interest me as much. Just put it to a vote. You could even make people pay with coin to vote so the system doesn't get abused.

[gjhiggins]

We really don't need half of the coins out there.

Do you have any reliable numbers to allow you to reach that conclusion? I'd be most interested if you could share them.

Cheers,

Graham

[dreamboy]

New coin new Channels.

[kaliostro]

Another DELETECOIN https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=511880.0, SCAM

[Amph]

Another DELETECOIN https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=511880.0, SCAM

delete coin shield

[kaliostro]

Another DELETECOIN https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=511880.0, SCAM

delete coin shield

little change and this is a new coin, was Deletecoin --- became Coin Shield,  how it hard!!!

[KryptoKash]

little change and this is a new coin, was Deletecoin --- became Coin Shield,  how it hard!!!

I'm not sure what Deletecoins full specs are as their site is down. Coinshield will have multiple mining algorithms (CPU+GPU). It will be POW+POS. It will have its own mining algorithms. It will have its own difficulty retargeting algorithm. Coinshield offers to protect the hard work of developers via it's Coinshield Verification process (see op for more info). These are just some of the new features that were created for this coin. All will be listed prior to launch.

I like the idea of this coin.

We really don't need half of the coins out there. The nomination idea, is similar to how many DDOS groups operate.

I have some hash rate i'll put in for this.

I am up in the air about algo though. I like GRS because my equipment runs cooler. But having some scrypt asics on board would sure help to kill small hasrate coins. Or am I misunderstanding how the "kill" process will work?

is the plan to mine and dump or fork the block chain?


The nomination process doesn't interest me as much. Just put it to a vote. You could even make people pay with coin to vote so the system doesn't get abused.

Thank you for your input on the algorithm, I will pass it over to Videlicet. When the community chooses to use the kill feature of coinshield, it will work as follows:
1. Community passes a petition.
2. Coin is then added to voting.
3. The coin with the most votes gets a trade channel to open.
4. Via the trade channel, Coinshield is exchanged for that coin.
5. The coin is then automatically sold.
6. BTC generated from the sale is then used to build buy walls.

This will effectively keep the value of a coin to a minimal. Coinshield will not only kill its economy, it absorbs it.

As for the voting abuse we posted this earlier:

Good question. We decided on the following spam filters to prevent abuse (we are modeling it after Mintpal):
We will require a login, Signup requires email confirmation.
Only 6 votes per hour.
We will be implementing certain bot detection checkpoints.I can't  list them, I wouldn't want anyone to find them and attempt to bypass them.
In addition to all this we are considering checking the users latest forum activity. If no posts were made within the last X days the system would not allow that user to vote. -Do you agree with this check?

What do you feel X should be in the voting check above? Also, If we got rid of the petition process (as you suggested) who would decide what coins are added to the voting system?

[komdo]

copy paste of MASTCOIN, the Coin Recycler, the latest innovation from the MAST team (public beta)

http://recycle.mastiffcoin.com/ -public beta working
http://mastcoin.co/vote - vote coin to recycl

[RiverBoatBTC]

This is just a what if, what if someone watches your voting and moves in advance of your action. Like buying all the coins on the market. Then selling them off for a premi?

[KryptoKash]

This is just a what if, what if someone watches your voting and moves in advance of your action. Like buying all the coins on the market. Then selling them off for a premi?

Our exchange algorithm will prevent that. Coinshield trade channels will use a highly advanced trade algorithm. It will take into account several factors, including value of both coins and the current buy orders of the shitcoin, as well as how many of the total supply we have already traded in and dumped. As we dump more of the coin it will decrease in value and the BTC that is generated will be automatically used to build buy walls (increase CSD value) which in turn will cause future trade in offers/value to be lower then the ones prior. If someone bought all the coins on the market our trade algorithm would not accept so many coins in 1 transaction, allowing it to offer a new trade (lower) price for the next transaction. So while they make some profit they will lose overall, and the coinshield community will win via the buy walls that were created from someone attempting such a scheme. The community will win as well (one less shitcoin).

[KryptoKash]

copy paste of MASTCOIN, the Coin Recycler, the latest innovation from the MAST team (public beta)

http://recycle.mastiffcoin.com/ -public beta working
http://mastcoin.co/vote - vote coin to recycl

As mentioned above:

Coinshield will have multiple mining algorithms (CPU+GPU). It will be POW+POS. It will have its own mining algorithms. It will have its own difficulty retargeting algorithm. Coinshield offers to protect the hard work of developers via it's Coinshield Verification process (see op for more info). These are just some of the new features that were created for this coin. All will be listed prior to launch.

Far from a copy and paste coin.

 
Edit: As for our shitcoin system, its purpose is to kill shitcoins. Mastiff's coin recycle system is an anonymous transaction mechanism, which allows you to convert any coin to MAST from your wallet or on the website. This has nothing to do with absorbing economies, or protecting certain (depending on how the community votes) coins source code (see Coinshield Verification in OP for more info).

[RiverBoatBTC]

I am all for taking down shit coins as you call them, I just hope no one figure out your algo's or your screwed.

[TheMightyX]

This community can be so depressing at times.

This entire scheme is inherently flawed and anyone who actually took the time to read the concept and understand it would see that.

Should I really dissect your whole plan? I don't want to spend all that time so I'll just point out one major flaw.

You can't "kill" a coin, you can only let it die on its own. If you take action against a shitcoin, you will only end up inadvertently helping it.

Case in point:

→Shitcoin sux, you tell the world it sux, its price starts declining because of your magical super powers.
→People start selling you their Shitcoin, you destroy shitcoin. As you destroy more of that shitcoin, you are increasing its scarcity.
→Shitcoin isn't worth much when there is 100,000,000 of them... but after you destroy 50% of its money supply it then becomes a hell of a lot scarcer, and consequently a hell of a lot more valuable.

More so, many shitcoins are PoW. Even if you destroyed 100% of the available market supply, there are more coins coming out every day. By reducing the market supply, all you are doing is making them more valuable. This in turn has the opposite effect of killing them, in fact it makes them even more sought after.

The only thing you can do to truly kill shitcoins is to educate the people, something not so easily done as can be seen by America's senate, republicans, theists and America in general.


This plan was not properly thought out.
As you are continually adding more coins to your own market supply the only shitcoin decreasing in value will be your own.

[KryptoKash]

This community can be so depressing at times.

This entire scheme is inherently flawed and anyone who actually took the time to read the concept and understand it would see that.

Should I really dissect your whole plan? I don't want to spend all that time so I'll just point out one major flaw.

You can't "kill" a coin, you can only let it die on its own. If you take action against a shitcoin, you will only end up inadvertently helping it.

Case in point:

→Shitcoin sux, you tell the world it sux, its price starts declining because of your magical super powers.
→People start selling you their Shitcoin, you destroy shitcoin. As you destroy more of that shitcoin, you are increasing its scarcity.
→Shitcoin isn't worth much when there is 100,000,000 of them... but after you destroy 50% of its money supply it then becomes a hell of a lot scarcer, and consequently a hell of a lot more valuable.

More so, many shitcoins are PoW. Even if you destroyed 100% of the available market supply, there are more coins coming out every day. By reducing the market supply, all you are doing is making them more valuable. This in turn has the opposite effect of killing them, in fact it makes them even more sought after.

The only thing you can do to truly kill shitcoins is to educate the people, something not so easily done as can be seen by America's senate, republicans, theists and America in general.


This plan was not properly thought out.
As you are continually adding more coins to your own market supply the only shitcoin decreasing in value will be your own.

In our OP we state: Destroying a coin in the following context means to reduce the coins value to a minimum, and keep it there.

As for creating scarcity and increasing the value of that coin you are correct. If coins were remove from circulation that is exactly what would happen. This is why Coinshield does not do that. As mentioned a few posts above this is how the system works:

Thank you for your input on the algorithm, I will pass it over to Videlicet. When the community chooses to use the kill feature of coinshield, it will work as follows:
1. Community passes a petition.
2. Coin is then added to voting.
3. The coin with the most votes gets a trade channel to open.
4. Via the trade channel, Coinshield is exchanged for that coin.
5. The coin is then automatically sold.
6. BTC generated from the sale is then used to build buy walls.


This will effectively keep the value of a coin to a minimal. Coinshield will not only kill its economy, it absorbs it.

This process will prevent the shitcoin from ever gaining value.

[BitSlapper]

This community can be so depressing at times.

This entire scheme is inherently flawed and anyone who actually took the time to read the concept and understand it would see that.

Should I really dissect your whole plan? I don't want to spend all that time so I'll just point out one major flaw.

You can't "kill" a coin, you can only let it die on its own. If you take action against a shitcoin, you will only end up inadvertently helping it.

Case in point:

→Shitcoin sux, you tell the world it sux, its price starts declining because of your magical super powers.
→People start selling you their Shitcoin, you destroy shitcoin. As you destroy more of that shitcoin, you are increasing its scarcity.
→Shitcoin isn't worth much when there is 100,000,000 of them... but after you destroy 50% of its money supply it then becomes a hell of a lot scarcer, and consequently a hell of a lot more valuable.

More so, many shitcoins are PoW. Even if you destroyed 100% of the available market supply, there are more coins coming out every day. By reducing the market supply, all you are doing is making them more valuable. This in turn has the opposite effect of killing them, in fact it makes them even more sought after.

The only thing you can do to truly kill shitcoins is to educate the people, something not so easily done as can be seen by America's senate, republicans, theists and America in general.


This plan was not properly thought out.
As you are continually adding more coins to your own market supply the only shitcoin decreasing in value will be your own.

Your either a Troll, didn't bother to read how they plan to "destroy" or devalue the coin, or your just stupid.

The fact that you reference Republicans as being uneducated is laughable. I hate both republicans and democrats but neither are uneducated. Calling Bush or Obama dumb makes you look dumb. They know exactly what they are doing, helping themselves not America.

Now go back to your troll cave or better yet take two minutes and actually bother to read everything about the coin before posting FUD.

[Videlicet]

To [The People],

Due to all the wonderful suggestions on this thread, I have decided to put the extra effort in to develop our own CPU/GPU algorithms. As I have been searching through all the possibilities, I am leaning towards a hybrid hash/scientific pow to maintain security. This has led me to larger numbers [256 bits just didn't satisfy my curiosity], so I wrote a class [uint512] to support 512 bit hashes [ported from Satoshi's uint256 class].

This will increase network security [512 bit hashing is more secure], and also allow us as a network to do calculations on numbers [that will fill half a page], which is more viable to me as scientific POW [I formulated this conclusion from my own desire to study the patterns we will discover].

Now, here is the other [part]. I am human, and as such require more time to complete this task [unfortunately have not transcended this limitation as of yet]. This would bring me to state that [Coinshield Launch will be Extended to 7/8/2014 at 12:00 PDT]. This does mean however, that any pool operators, or anyone interested in [helping], will be able to use a testnet I setup before launch [to report to me any issues]. This hopefully will help strike more community involvement in the development of Coinshield, so that we can adhere [as close as possible] to the community's desires.

Respectfully,
~Videlicet

[gjhiggins]

I wrote a class [uint512] to support 512 bit hashes [ported from Satoshi's uint256 class].

Unless there's something special about your uint512 implementation that you haven't described above, you could have saved some effort by merely using the existing implementation adopted by many altcoins.

Selecting a couple at random from dozens of potential examples:

https://github.com/qubitcoin/QubitCoin/blob/master/src/uint256.h#L647

https://github.com/dmcoin/diamondcoin/blob/master/src/uint256.h#L647

I've not checked all the denizens of the SHA-3 Zoo but I'm reasonably confident that all of the NIST candidates offer 512 bit functions because that was part of the competition spec.

I'll hazard a guess that all of the chained-hashalgo altcoins use 512-bit hash algos. QubitCoin uses 512bit hashes in its 5-link chain and the same is true of both Chaincoin's C11 and Darkcoin's x11 11-link chains. All of the x* chained algo series use 512bit hash functions. For those looking to the future with trepidation, we can get to about x20 before really starting to scrape the barrel)

I see a very healthy diversity of pow algo usage:



(note, log2 scale for presentation purposes)

Cheers,

Graham

[Videlicet]

Graham,

You are correct [I did not catch this, as I have had my head in my code, working it around with my own logic]. I guess I reinvented the wheel for porting this class [uint512], but also, saw other locations it needed implementation [that other coins failed to address].

1. CBigNum class: needed extra implementation to work with [uint512]
2. CBlockHeader class: to store hashblock/hashprevblock as [uint512], not [uint256] to make actual use of a 512 bit hash

With other coins that use 512 bit hashing, you'll notice in their Hash template, it is always returned as [uint256] from the examples I have seen. This in my logic, makes use of 512 bit hashing superfluous [if only 256 bits can be stored].

~Videlicet