[ANN] Swarm Fund 1.0 - [OFFLINE THREAD]

[illiki23]

I am somewhat confused.

Can someone explain what they mean by 'equity' in the following paragraph:

"Joel and the Swarm team has taken it a step further though. Not only can you launch your company on Swarm, Swarm is being launched on Swarm. Starting on June 17th Swarm will be the first company Crowdfunded through Swarm. People who take part in the crowdsale will not only get equity in Swarm, but in all other businesses that are launched on the platform, which is a very exciting prospect."

This was one of the selling points.  This is on the official counterparty website (and still is).

Did this change?

[identtitentti]

I am somewhat confused.

Can someone explain what they mean by 'equity' in the following paragraph:

"Joel and the Swarm team has taken it a step further though. Not only can you launch your company on Swarm, Swarm is being launched on Swarm. Starting on June 17th Swarm will be the first company Crowdfunded through Swarm. People who take part in the crowdsale will not only get equity in Swarm, but in all other businesses that are launched on the platform, which is a very exciting prospect."

This was one of the selling points.  This is on the official counterparty website (and still is).

Did this change?

I supposed this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equity_(finance)#Shareholders.27_equity

Meaning the Swarmcoin-asset promised to be distributed as promised. It has now been two weeks since the date given as distribution date, and they keep on stalling.

[Gleb Gamow]

I am not really interested in the price of a SWARM coin, I invested to get a percentage of the start ups launched using the platform.  I am also planning on investing more on start ups I like in the future and maybe even launching my own projects using SWARM, sending friends your way etc...  I really think you should stick to the original plan and distribute the remaining coins.  If this burn goes ahead then I might as well have stuck to speculating on alts.  The whole reason I invested was to help start ups, getting their coins and potential dividends.  I am sure loads of other community members invested for the same reason.  For me its the about a supporting revolutionary crypto equity project while getting a percentage of start ups (no mater how small) not the dollar value of a SWARM coin.  I really think the burn is a BAD idea.  I have spent some time with you guys, really like the project and have defended SWARM from those calling it a scam.  Please don't destroy the project and make me look like a complete mug.  I can already hear a lot of people telling me "I told you so".

In between my rants, I've been working behind the scenes on a project I believe is tailor-made for Swarm/CounterParty (no, it's not CoinProLite, a spoof alt).

Yes, it's an alt, moreover, an ongoing series of alts, whereupon miners can alternated between the most profitable alts via the parameters they preset. All the alts would be based on the same exact hashing algorithm, et al.

Distribution of alts won't be a problem, for many non-cryptocoiners will not have a problem participating. Also, getting notables to back their various alts will be accomplished fairly easily.

I've already procured domain names for the project, with a handful more needing to be purchased outta my pocket (what's another hundred+ bucks?).

The site is already live, albeit not indexable for the search engines. The few I presented the idea to while in Chicago a couple weeks ago loved the idea, offering up their kind input, of which led me indirectly to Swarm, et al. albeit I, too, am still getting my head wrapped around the whole thing, but see its promise.

Currently, I'm seeking a trustworthy team to further develop the idea to a point of garnering minimal funding. I would love to see my project be the first mega project spawn from Swarn, offering up nothing less than FULL transparency along the way, for the notable reps of those attached to the various alts DON'T want their brands scarred by a misstep on theirs, or ours part while they hope to benefit handsomely for their involvement.

Needless to say, such an endeavor seen to fruition WILL bring further awareness to all viable cryptocurrencies.

[iaminitnow06]

Just go with the original plan and be a man & keep your words.

This would be simple if I was the only decision maker, but our founding team has very different views on the matter and hasn't been able to reach consensus yet.

It is you who has represented the Swarm team here from the beginning of this thread. How and why the hell do you stray away now If you were/are not part of the decision maker then you should have have stopped your fingers from typing nonsense here. What's the point of this theatrical?
Are you admitting that you do not represent the Swarm team here in this very BTT thread?

FFS your founding team hardly consists of 5-6 members. How hard can it be to sit together in your fancy office and say "let's give the investors what all of us had promised since the beginning of the crowdfunding"?

You want to keep over a million dollars worth BTC at the current price. You want to keep 8% of total SWARM. You want to reserve more SWARM for future funding so that you can get more BTC into your pockets. All i can see from this project is you KEEP, KEEP and KEEP and KEEP SOME MORE  . Where is the fair distribution that your team has been preaching since the inception of this project Remember your idea of Swarm would be worthless without our- "The investors money". Loads of ideas have been burnt to ground before this and will be burnt after this. If the investors can build a fortress, they can also build weapons to destroy such fortress. If you go the burn route, I'm pretty sure you will see a dump fest and there is no possible way in which your idea won't get burnt to the ground.
I sincerely regret taking part in this venture.

[identtitentti]

I am not really interested in the price of a SWARM coin, I invested to get a percentage of the start ups launched using the platform.  I am also planning on investing more on start ups I like in the future and maybe even launching my own projects using SWARM, sending friends your way etc...  I really think you should stick to the original plan and distribute the remaining coins.  If this burn goes ahead then I might as well have stuck to speculating on alts.  The whole reason I invested was to help start ups, getting their coins and potential dividends.  I am sure loads of other community members invested for the same reason.  For me its the about a supporting revolutionary crypto equity project while getting a percentage of start ups (no mater how small) not the dollar value of a SWARM coin.  I really think the burn is a BAD idea.  I have spent some time with you guys, really like the project and have defended SWARM from those calling it a scam.  Please don't destroy the project and make me look like a complete mug.  I can already hear a lot of people telling me "I told you so".

In between my rants, I've been working behind the scenes on a project I believe is tailor-made for Swarm/CounterParty (no, it's not CoinProLite, a spoof alt).

Yes, it's an alt, moreover, an ongoing series of alts, whereupon miners can alternated between the most profitable alts via the parameters they preset. All the alts would be based on the same exact hashing algorithm, et al.

Distribution of alts won't be a problem, for many non-cryptocoiners will not have a problem participating. Also, getting notables to back their various alts will be accomplished fairly easily.

I've already procured domain names for the project, with a handful more needing to be purchased outta my pocket (what's another hundred+ bucks?).

The site is already live, albeit not indexable for the search engines. The few I presented the idea to while in Chicago a couple weeks ago loved the idea, offering up their kind input, of which led me indirectly to Swarm, et al. albeit I, too, am still getting my head wrapped around the whole thing, but see its promise.

Currently, I'm seeking a trustworthy team to further develop the idea to a point of garnering minimal funding. I would love to see my project be the first mega project spawn from Swarn, offering up nothing less than FULL transparency along the way, for the notable reps of those attached to the various alts DON'T want their brands scarred by a misstep on theirs, or ours part while they hope to benefit handsomely for their involvement.

Needless to say, such an endeavor seen to fruition WILL bring further awareness to all viable cryptocurrencies.

Are you interested to check also the PoS side for development of your project? Counterwallet beta remains horrible compared to NXT and FIMK, where the speed of adding functionality is remarkably better than on bitcoin 2.0 side from all what I have seen so far. If I understood right, your idea is advanced and accessible PoW hash pool, and I can see lot of synergy with combining your idea for PoW with PoS platform.

[illiki23]

I am not really interested in the price of a SWARM coin, I invested to get a percentage of the start ups launched using the platform.

They have to so I wouldn't worry until they start trying to weasel out.

Quote from swarm rep when fundraising began:

Today, I am happy to announce that we have launched Swarm, a platform for cryptoequity that can eventually replace today’s stock markets with a much more powerful alternative.

To do so, we are fundraising on our own platform. Our coin, SWARM, entitles all coin owners to a part of one percent of all future coins launched on our platform.

Another quote from the same article (by Joel):

First, SWARM was designed only after extensive legal research, with the plan to be fully compliant with existing legal frameworks concerning securities offerings.

I just wish people in a professional position would act professional, not make promises they cannot keep, and actually seek legal advice before making these promises.  Anyone wanting a refund should be entitled to one if a single promise is broken that was made during fundraising.

We bought into crypto-equity.  The swarm fundraising was described as such. (equity in swarm, my last post quoted this claim)

[Gleb Gamow]

I am not really interested in the price of a SWARM coin, I invested to get a percentage of the start ups launched using the platform.  I am also planning on investing more on start ups I like in the future and maybe even launching my own projects using SWARM, sending friends your way etc...  I really think you should stick to the original plan and distribute the remaining coins.  If this burn goes ahead then I might as well have stuck to speculating on alts.  The whole reason I invested was to help start ups, getting their coins and potential dividends.  I am sure loads of other community members invested for the same reason.  For me its the about a supporting revolutionary crypto equity project while getting a percentage of start ups (no mater how small) not the dollar value of a SWARM coin.  I really think the burn is a BAD idea.  I have spent some time with you guys, really like the project and have defended SWARM from those calling it a scam.  Please don't destroy the project and make me look like a complete mug.  I can already hear a lot of people telling me "I told you so".

In between my rants, I've been working behind the scenes on a project I believe is tailor-made for Swarm/CounterParty (no, it's not CoinProLite, a spoof alt).

Yes, it's an alt, moreover, an ongoing series of alts, whereupon miners can alternated between the most profitable alts via the parameters they preset. All the alts would be based on the same exact hashing algorithm, et al.

Distribution of alts won't be a problem, for many non-cryptocoiners will not have a problem participating. Also, getting notables to back their various alts will be accomplished fairly easily.

I've already procured domain names for the project, with a handful more needing to be purchased outta my pocket (what's another hundred+ bucks?).

The site is already live, albeit not indexable for the search engines. The few I presented the idea to while in Chicago a couple weeks ago loved the idea, offering up their kind input, of which led me indirectly to Swarm, et al. albeit I, too, am still getting my head wrapped around the whole thing, but see its promise.

Currently, I'm seeking a trustworthy team to further develop the idea to a point of garnering minimal funding. I would love to see my project be the first mega project spawn from Swarn, offering up nothing less than FULL transparency along the way, for the notable reps of those attached to the various alts DON'T want their brands scarred by a misstep on theirs, or ours part while they hope to benefit handsomely for their involvement.

Needless to say, such an endeavor seen to fruition WILL bring further awareness to all viable cryptocurrencies.

Are you interested to check also the PoS side for development of your project? Counterwallet beta remains horrible compared to NXT and FIMK, where the speed of adding functionality is remarkably better than on bitcoin 2.0 side from all what I have seen so far. If I understood right, your idea is advanced and accessible PoW hash pool, and I can see lot of synergy with combining your idea for PoW with PoS platform.

Since I posted here, it was brought to my attention via another thread that all is not currently swell with Swarm, et al. I honestly saw promise here, for I love the concept.

I've explored the _PoS^PoW ( ) and Ethereum options. Ideally, the project I have in mind would establish synergy with existing builds by trustworthy cryptopreneur developers, assuming such varmints exist.

PS/EDIT: This is one helluva active subsection. I posted, and within seconds this tread was bumped by a ~dozen ANN alts. I wouldn't be surprise to see my spoof CoinProLite thread buried by ~dozen pages since last posting this morning.

PSS/EDITT: Thanks for the valuable input, bud.

[daviducsb]

I don't understand the legal concerns. The whole point is to grow so fast so as to influence the current legal regime, like Uber and AirBnB, not be constrained by it. Call it what you want to but give us our equity. Or, team up with a VC who can.

[merockstar]

coin market cap is unimportant.

the only way to make it appear higher is to have a bigger supply exist than is actually available on the market. but this would be misleading. it would be like a pump.

and with every pump there is a dump.

that's why I agree with a burn, but only if you don't keep any, otherwise it's just a stealth pump- with the value distributed a little more fairly to investors so we'll bitch less.


distribute all the remaining swarm back to investors, make a quality product, do push-ups, sit-ups, pull-ups, mountain climbers and stuff instead of trying to pick up chicks at the gym, and the market cap will naturally rise because this is a good idea, and that's why I bought some against my better judgement.

I feel like I'm getting more worked up about this than I normally do about stuff, but c'mon dude we are not stupid...

[Gleb Gamow]

According to the swarm website (http://swarmcorp.com/team.html) the core team is 4 people, 2 of which are the founders. If you 2 to 4 cannot find any integrity or concensus between yourselves and stick to the plan, how will you build and run a crowdfunding platform? Serious question.

Joel Dietz: Palo Alto, California: https://www.facebook.com/joel.a.dietz
Colleen Sollars: Livermore, California: https://www.facebook.com/colleen.sollars
Ben Ingram: Berlin, Germany: https://www.facebook.com/tquila.ben
Jef Cavens: Antwerp, Belgium: https://www.facebook.com/jefcavens/about

Swarm spawned from this think tank: http://magazine.ouishare.net/2013/05/bitcoin-human-based-digital-currency/

Their Twitter account mentions Swarm once, albeit in a different context: https://twitter.com/OuiShare/status/377745227823722496

The Swarm Economy Is Not Silicon Valley's "Sharing Economy" http://ow.ly/oLxsc  #collcons

<Important EDIT: I did not mean to cloak the link: - http://falkvinge.net/2013/09/09/the-swarm-economy-is-not-silicon-valleys-sharing-economy/ - >

And only mention Bitcoin six times: https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1CHFX_enUS549US549&es_sm=122&q=site%3Ahttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FOuiShare+bitcoin&oq=site%3Ahttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FOuiShare+bitcoin&gs_l=serp.3...4080.6182.0.6512.7.7.0.0.0.0.69.392.7.7.0.chm_loc%2Chmss2%3Dfalse%2Chms2min%3D10%2Chms2max%3D10%2Chmtb%3D120%2Chmta%3D1440%2Chmrde%3D0-0%2Chmde%3D1-0%2Chmmpp1%3D0-5%2Chmmpp2%3D0-3%2Chmth%3D4%2Chmffs%3D10000...0...1.1.51.serp..7.0.0.xOZsNq_1MNY

[Gleb Gamow]

Correct. We haven't made any specific promises with respect to our giveback model since, among other things, it is legally problematic. Generally speaking we encourage people to think of the first iteration of Swarm as a crypto-kickstarter with some cool perks of not particularly clear monetary value rather than an investment.

Isn't the whole point of Swarm to solve the problem of unfairness that occurs with the kickstarter model of fundraising?

You might want to rethink this statement..

I hate to seem pessimistic, but the real problem as I see it is that the more value we provide to people who have swarm coins the more likely we are to be sued by the U.S. government and shut down. So in order to provide the most value long term, we actually have to provide less value in the short term.

I don't blame anyone for thinking this is a bit ridiculous...

WTF I thought you are based in London, UK. So what's US government had to do with this There was no mention of US government in this when you were showing us big dreams referencing Occulus and what not. Basically, you are saying that "It's great that you have invested in our company but don't expect any profits"
I do not want to be seen as spreading FUD. I believed in a plan where everybody was treated fairly. Now, I'm seriously concerned about my investment. Please don't break the trust for we have believed in this project since the beginning. I think the 24 million should be proportionally distributed among the investors and you guys can have 8% of 24 Million=1.92 Million. Straight and simple.

Not sure where you got the idea that Swarm is based in the UK, but I'm seeing headquartered in Palo Alto, California United States, spawned in France.

[fragORA]

We raised more than $1M from more than 900 backers, in less than 40 days. THANKS A MILLION.

[identtitentti]

The Swarm Economy Is Not Silicon Valley's "Sharing Economy" http://[Suspicious link removed]/oLxsc  #collcons

Swarm spawned from this think tank: http://magazine.ouishare.net/2013/05/bitcoin-human-based-digital-currency/

Thank you very much, very interesting and inspiring!

One still unsolved practical problem of human based digital currency for e.g. universal basic income (UBI) is proof-of-identity (PoI). In FIMK ecosystem, with which I'm so far most familiar with, the basic income distribution over four years will be based on existing Finnish state and banking sector PoI services for Finnish citizen-identities. While major improvement compered to the previous pump-and-dump national coins, it is just one step towards genuine UBI. But as FIMK is not just on idea level but already actual, the pragmatic side gives new incentives for theoretical questions and suggestions for solutions.

I assume we can agree that it would be most sound and socially acceptable at this point of evolution to define most basic human based identity as single human organism, which in turn can have multiple linguistic identities such as forum nicks etc., citizen identities controlled by government authorities, and various other psychological identities. For PoI of unique human organism bioidentification (finger print etc) would be most natural and already available choice, which can be combined where and if needed also with various peer-to-peer PoI systems, such as guarantee of organic identity of a new member in digital community by existing member identities.

E.g. fingerprint identification for peer-to-peer systems is already available on some professional laptops etc., and this is clearly something doable also on large scale up to global scale, as I understand UBI. Easiest way to do this with current+ resources would be one time biometric PoI for UBI account, after which password PoI would be enough There is also always some chance of fraud with every system, but perfect is the worst enemy of good. There are also other problems, should the biometric PoI data be it's own blockchain, how to link that data securely with other blockchains, how to achieve consensus to remove e.g. deceased identity from the system, etc.

Another issue is that UBI alone would not probably work very well for resource based global economy, or at least not as single transition process towards such, and could probably function best combined with assets created as producer credits. Global UBI could function as the global unit of value, through which producer credit -assets would be exchanged.

Crowd funding ways to improve stability of block chain computation, developing globally accessible PoI architectures, user apps for radio transmitted block chain data (first test starts in september with FIMK and BTC), sustainable computer hardware (and bioware with bacteria that eat only electrons and can form biowires?), these are the kinds of start ups that I would like to support through block chain crowd funding by Swarm and/or other platforms.

[identtitentti]

We raised more than $1M from more than 900 backers, in less than 40 days. THANKS A MILLION.

Dollar is designed to make you stupid greedy, because it is based on artificial scarcity. I'm much more intelligent when I think in FIMK, Swarm etc. block chain abundance.

[iaminitnow06]

Not sure where you got the idea that Swarm is based in the UK, but I'm seeing headquartered in Palo Alto, California United States, spawned in France.

Seems like you are new here. Why don't you ask Fractastical where they had registered their company first? After they got the Million, they went to the "Fancy California".

[Gleb Gamow]

Seems like you are new here. Why don't you ask Fractastical where they had registered their company first? After they got the Million, they went back to the "Fancy California".

FTFY

Looks to me like Swarm is a glorified/incarnated Evergreen: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=426904.0

http://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/news/evergreen-private-money-backed-by-bitcoins/2014/01/21

CryptoCoinsNews: How does Evergreen compete with Bitcoin?

Joel Dietz: If you’ve been following the Bitcoin 2.0, you know that, for Bitcoin to innovate, either people have to create superlayers on top of them (e.g. Mastercoin) or whole new protocols (i.e. Ethereum) that improve on the underlying tech. Both of these options are problematic in different ways. There are many limitations in the first model, and the second model, as much as I love it, means starting over every time there is a substantially new innovation. Also, you have the long term problems such as “What if there is an advance in quantum computing that renders the core crypto useless?” or “What if I don’t want everyone to know how much money I have and what I spent it on?”

So those are general issues with the protocol as it currently exists that have no easy answers. For us, the core advantage we offer is embedded reputation, instant clearing time, stable exchange rates into other currencies, and seamless integration into POS services (which we’ve built and deliver).

If I had to compare and contrast with respect to classic currency definitions, I’d say that Bitcoin is doing a great job of being a “store of value”, not so great as a “unit of account,” and okay as a “means of exchange.” We are doing much better at the “means of exchange” and “unit of account” parts, but “store of value” is a bit ambiguous right now because you have to trust that we actually have the assets in a vault somewhere. Ideally this will be forced at some point by corporate bylaws and the existence of a separate Evergreen Trust, but we aren’t there yet.

[fractastical]

We've done an initial distribution of SWARM to SWARMPRE holders on a 1:1 basis.

The specifics of the remaining SWARM are now available for a vote, explained at length here.



We've also completed a full financial audit and better explained cryptoequity.

If you are interested in the Swarm idea you can also read some related writings.

By popular request, we will also soon be discontinuing our bitcointalk presence and moving all comms over to our own forum.

As for the specifics of our legal infrastructure, we are operating out of multiple legal entities and plan to document this when everything is setup to our satisfaction.  

[fractastical]

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[mishax1]

"On SEPTEMBER 1st we will act according to the VOTE options..."

[fractastical]

Okay. So here we are, Sept 4th. Voting has concluded 4 days ago with a majority vote for ISSUE. Yet our additional 1.4x swarm have still not been issued.... what is the holdup?

https://github.com/CounterpartyXCP/counterwallet/issues

Short answer is that Counterwallet mysteriously fails with some addresses. I hope and expect this will be resolved in the next 24 hrs.