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Author Topic: [350 GH/s] "Eligius" (experimental) pool: almost feeless PPS, hoppers welcome  (Read 109873 times)
klaaster
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June 28, 2011, 10:14:50 AM
 #741

I have mined now for some hours on S3 with 340 MH/s and wonder why the reward goes down so much on a short round.
Is this supposed to happen with the new PPS system?

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gentakin
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June 28, 2011, 10:25:11 AM
 #742

I have mined now for some hours on S3 with 340 MH/s and wonder why the reward goes down on a short round.
Is this supposed to happen with the new PPS system?

MaxPPS attempts to be pretty much like PPS. It pays you a fixed amount for every share you submit. Only when the pool is unable to pay the full BTC/share price (because it hasn't earned enough to do so) the reward will be different. (As I understand it, you might get the difference back later when the pool has earned enough to pay you - not sure about this.)

So yes, in a short round you submit less shares than in a long round, and your reward goes down. In long rounds the pool will give rewards that sum up to more than 50BTC if it has savings left from previous short rounds.

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anodyne
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June 28, 2011, 11:49:19 AM
 #743

I'll try an easy explanation of the system, to see if I have understood it myself...

PPS value is based on the expected amount of shares needed for a block, but since that involves a lot of decimals we'll say that the expected number of shares is 100 per block, so they are each worth 0.5BTC. So, it would go something like this:

Block 1: Solved after 50 shares. Pool pays out a total of 25BTC
Block 2: Solved after 150 shares. Still fine, since the pool has 25BTC left and can still pay the total 75BTC
Block 3: Solved after 50 shares. Pool keeps 25BTC again.
Block 4: Solved after 200 shares. Not enough to pay 0.5 for each share, so the 75BTC are distributed according to amount of shares contributed, but weighted by work contributed to earlier blocks.

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twmz
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June 28, 2011, 12:46:46 PM
 #744

I have mined now for some hours on S3 with 340 MH/s and wonder why the reward goes down so much on a short round.
Is this supposed to happen with the new PPS system?

Yes, you are getting paid "per share".  You make a fixed amount for every share you submit.  So if you have a steady hashrate, you'll make a consistent amount per hour/day/etc.  See that yellow line in your top graph?  It's going up very steadily.  That is the point of PPS/MaxPPS/SMaxPPS.  Long rounds and short rounds are smoothed out so that you get as close to the theoretical predicted BTC/day as you can (without the risk of extended bad luck bankrupting the pool).

The idea is to, as much as possible, remove the variation from random chance. 

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klaaster
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June 28, 2011, 12:58:13 PM
 #745

Thanks for the explanations guys, looks like a smartish payout system.
bitcoin0918
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June 28, 2011, 01:28:13 PM
 #746

My address's stat pages for US and EU no longer exist, and I have not been on Eligius-3 since its inception. What has happened to the balances I had on both of US and EU?

"So you think that money is the root of all evil?" said Francisco d'Aconia. "Have you ever asked what is the root of money?" [contd.]
klaaster
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June 28, 2011, 01:34:14 PM
 #747

EU and US balances got paid out, just check your wallet.
Yeti
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June 28, 2011, 01:34:43 PM
 #748

They have been seized by Luke-Jr and invested in his carribean winter home. Hurr hurr.

If you've read all entries in this thread, you might have come across this announcment:
US balances have been paid in full via a standard sendmany transaction (txid: 451718e781fe39e6014d0000f891659d571eff25995e943b864a641b412dcd62). Since I didn't pay a fee, the network won't relay it, and you won't see it until it's confirmed, which should be no later than Eligius-3's next block. Assuming no problems, I plan to do the same for Europe's balances.

1YetiaXeuRzX9QJoQNUW84oX2EiXnHgp3 or http://payb.tc/yeti

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bitcoin0918
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June 28, 2011, 01:44:09 PM
 #749

They have been seized by Luke-Jr and invested in his carribean winter home. Hurr hurr.
I knew it! Tongue

"So you think that money is the root of all evil?" said Francisco d'Aconia. "Have you ever asked what is the root of money?" [contd.]
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June 28, 2011, 04:56:03 PM
 #750

I have mined now for some hours on S3 with 340 MH/s and wonder why the reward goes down so much on a short round.
Is this supposed to happen with the new PPS system?

Nice image!

I like how you circled the facts about how the system is paying you less than you would make over at btcguild, deepbit, etc.
Potential miners can see how it is far less than the standard proportional payout (contribution % x 50 btc - or simply half the contribution % for easy calculation).
Now that the statistics are no longer publicly displayed for the huge btc profits skimmed during the Maxpps incident on the eligius us.server (explained in detail in a prior post), potential miners should definitely look through the current miner pages and calculate how much they'll potentially sacrifice from the standard proportional payout.

Even though I was only losing about 1.5 btc or so per day around June 14th during the "eligius pps scam" (as one miner called it), it taught me a valuable lesson - Get out quick from any contract where the other party has changed or ignored the terms to steal your value.

I love the artifact2 stats, but it's just not worth receiving so far below the market rate for my miner shares (to see the nice graphs).

UPDATE - Eligius paid me what they said they owed! Partial relief, although I still lost all the shares contributed for far less reward than the pool took in during the maxpps shorting around June 14th. In the end, the total loss for me was less than 2 btc (and 2 weeks of being forced to loan eligius around 3 BTC well after passing the 1btc payout threshhold).

The only way to make sure people you agree with can speak is to support the rights of people you don't agree with.
gentakin
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June 28, 2011, 05:05:12 PM
 #751

The new reward system is fine. On short rounds, miners will earn less than on deepbit, and on long rounds they will earn more than on deepbit. And they earn more compared to BTC guild because BTC guild is affected by pool hopping (unless they are pool hopping themselves). Now please stop spamming.

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Artefact2
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June 28, 2011, 05:11:10 PM
 #752

Nice image!

I like how you circled the facts about how the system is paying you less than you would make over at btcguild, deepbit, etc.
Potential miners can see how it is far less than the standard proportional payout (contribution % x 50 btc - or simply half the contribution % for easy calculation).
Now that the statistics are no longer publicly displayed for the huge btc profits skimmed during the Maxpps incident on the eligius us.server (explained in detail in a prior post), potential miners should definitely look through the current miner pages and calculate how much they'll potentially sacrifice from the standard proportional payout.

Even though I was only losing about 1.5 btc or so per day around June 14th during the "eligius pps scam" (as one miner called it), it taught me a valuable lesson - Get out quick from any contract where the other party has changed or ignored the terms to steal your value.

I love the artifact2 stats, but it's just not worth receiving so far below the market rate for my miner shares (to see the nice graphs).

UPDATE - Eligius paid me what they said they owed! Partial relief, although I still lost all the shares contributed for far less reward than the pool took in during the maxpps shorting around June 14th. In the end, the total loss for me was less than 2 btc (and 2 weeks of being forced to loan eligius around 3 BTC well after passing the 1btc payout threshhold).


Nice post ! 

I like how you talk about something you clearly don't understand. This way everyone can see you're just trolling and/or completely stupid. There was a poll to choose the new payout system, and SMPPS won. So you are telling >50% of the miners here just made the wrong choice ? It's not like we never talked about it before. There are comparative graphs available, and a dedicated page on the wiki. But again, it's just way easier to look at a very short time period and immediately jump to the conclusion that the pool is scamming its contributors.

Now please stop posting in this thread, thanks.

A pool-biased blockchain representation, by me: pident (WTFPL)
Luke-Jr
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June 28, 2011, 05:11:41 PM
 #753

I like how you circled the facts about how the system is paying you less than you would make over at btcguild, deepbit, etc.
Quit trolling. BTCGuild would probably pay about the same over time (though you'd get higher variance because it's proportional), Deepbit of course would pay 10% less because of the fee.

Potential miners can see how it is far less than the standard proportional payout (contribution % x 50 btc - or simply half the contribution % for easy calculation).
It isn't less. That's your brain failing. Again, quit trolling. Proportional always underpays on long blocks, and always overpays on short blocks (which is why it has a problem with pool hoppers).

UPDATE - Eligius paid me what they said they owed! Partial relief, although I still lost all the shares contributed for far less reward than the pool took in during the maxpps shorting around June 14th. In the end, the total loss for me was less than 2 btc (and 2 weeks of being forced to loan eligius around 3 BTC well after passing the 1btc payout threshhold).
You got paid the proportional reward for the work you did in full. Stop slandering our pool. I'm surprised you haven't been banned from the forums yet.

Luke-Jr
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June 28, 2011, 07:11:35 PM
 #754

This thread is locked and replaced with a new thread here.

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