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Author Topic: Is PoS dead?  (Read 16932 times)
devphp
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August 24, 2014, 01:49:59 PM
 #301

But there is one problem with pure PoS coins:

Rich get richer JUST by sitting on their stake.

which (in my opinion) inevitably leads to centralisation of stake (just getting all fees until you get all the currency).
It will take definitely much longer time than centralisation of mining power did, but it probably will happen some time.
And wide adoption of such currency is only speeding the process (more transactions → more fees)
Am I wrong?
That is the only thing that i dont like about NXT and
that is where NEM with their Proof of Importance algorithm can succeed.
Indeed, the main problem is that the difference between the rich and the poor gets worse with POS. Sure it is energy efficient, but that does not make up for anything. POS does not have a future, and sadly I do not see even NEM succeeding. It's all speculation who knows what will happen in the upcoming weeks.

Some of the assets on NXT AE have gone up 500%, which means if the poor bought in to them, they'd be 5 times more rich now. And if the rich didn't buy, they'd still have the same. Which means there are opportunities born every minute, you just need to search for them and make your bets. Wisely. It's the companies that (will) run on top of NXT that add the value, sitting on stakes and not investing means the person is not actively exploring opportunities and will surely miss on them, and then pay more to buy shares of those companies.
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AdamSmith
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August 24, 2014, 02:54:42 PM
 #302

PoS is the way to move forwards, its PoS which is dead. There are many variants of PoS now - TF, POI, DPOS etc.

PoW is fading away to make room for PoS.

So, it is far from dead.
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August 24, 2014, 03:22:34 PM
 #303

It was good to see POS when we saw it first time. Now there are so many POS coins so it doesn't attract anymore.
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August 24, 2014, 05:27:21 PM
 #304

Crytpolina Bitcoin 2.0 Debate was unanimous among a panel of 6 industry leaders, the #1 thing Bitcoin must do to remain remain relevant so to switch to some kind of Proof of Stake.

In other words, those that are building next generation systems are not even considering proof of work. 

https://steemit.com  Blogging is the new Mining
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August 24, 2014, 05:29:14 PM
 #305

It was good to see POS when we saw it first time. Now there are so many POS coins so it doesn't attract anymore.

this doesn't make it dead though

PoS is the way to move forwards, its PoS which is dead. There are many variants of PoS now - TF, POI, DPOS etc.

i missed those, especially tf can you link me the coin using it? tnx

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September 24, 2014, 02:46:38 PM
 #306

Anyone can start a PoS and it is just as secure as anyone else's. They're like wooden nickels. Worthless. I'll use them if my nation declares them legal tender, but not before because there is no fair distribution with any of them. Governments will only distribute them to themselves anyway so why bother buying into them beforehand? In fact the philosophy behind PoS is so state-centric, I don't see why anyone bothers to develop them. Nobody has yet shown that they are immune from permanent centralization. So just face it, they are ideal for central banks.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
devphp
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September 24, 2014, 02:55:01 PM
 #307

Anyone can start a PoS and it is just as secure as anyone else's. They're like wooden nickels. Worthless. I'll use them if my nation declares them legal tender, but not before because there is no fair distribution with any of them. Governments will only distribute them to themselves anyway so why bother buying into them beforehand? In fact the philosophy behind PoS is so state-centric, I don't see why anyone bothers to develop them. Nobody has yet shown that they are immune from permanent centralization. So just face it, they are ideal for central banks.

Nobody has shown that Bitcoin is immune from centralization. On the contrary, it's getting more centralized with each passing day. Welcome to corporate crypto world, crypto slaves, say greetings to your crypto masters (aka early bitcoin adopters), they own you.
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September 24, 2014, 03:06:14 PM
 #308

Anyone can start a PoS and it is just as secure as anyone else's. They're like wooden nickels. Worthless. I'll use them if my nation declares them legal tender, but not before because there is no fair distribution with any of them. Governments will only distribute them to themselves anyway so why bother buying into them beforehand? In fact the philosophy behind PoS is so state-centric, I don't see why anyone bothers to develop them. Nobody has yet shown that they are immune from permanent centralization. So just face it, they are ideal for central banks.

Nobody has shown that Bitcoin is immune from centralization. On the contrary, it's getting more centralized with each passing day. Welcome to corporate crypto world, crypto slaves, say greetings to your crypto masters (aka early bitcoin adopters), they own you.
Nice strawman. I didn't say centralization. I said permanent centralization.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
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September 24, 2014, 03:10:54 PM
 #309

Anyone can start a PoS and it is just as secure as anyone else's. They're like wooden nickels. Worthless. I'll use them if my nation declares them legal tender, but not before because there is no fair distribution with any of them. Governments will only distribute them to themselves anyway so why bother buying into them beforehand? In fact the philosophy behind PoS is so state-centric, I don't see why anyone bothers to develop them. Nobody has yet shown that they are immune from permanent centralization. So just face it, they are ideal for central banks.

Nobody has shown that Bitcoin is immune from centralization. On the contrary, it's getting more centralized with each passing day. Welcome to corporate crypto world, crypto slaves, say greetings to your crypto masters (aka early bitcoin adopters), they own you.
Nice strawman. I didn't say centralization. I said permanent centralization.

So? Is PoW immune from permanent centralization? No, it is not. It's moving towards permanent and full centralization like a speed train. In 1 year there will be 2 mining pools, each controlling 50% of the hashrate.
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September 24, 2014, 03:11:38 PM
 #310

Anyone can start a PoS and it is just as secure as anyone else's. They're like wooden nickels. Worthless. I'll use them if my nation declares them legal tender, but not before because there is no fair distribution with any of them. Governments will only distribute them to themselves anyway so why bother buying into them beforehand? In fact the philosophy behind PoS is so state-centric, I don't see why anyone bothers to develop them. Nobody has yet shown that they are immune from permanent centralization. So just face it, they are ideal for central banks.

ahhh give up preaching your hate for PoS.. its getting old.. those who know anything about PoS know your totally wrong.. those who dont know anything about PoS will know you are totally wrong at some stage probably sooner than later.. currently many believe(wrongly) that you are correct so you dont look like too much of a knob but when the day comes that PoS takes over the show your going to have admit you were wrong and at that point your going to look like a far bigger knob then you do now so quit while you not so far behind and you might make it out of here with out destroying what reputation you might have left.
You forgot to add muhuhaha!

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
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September 24, 2014, 03:15:36 PM
 #311



So? Is PoW immune from permanent centralization? No, it is not. It's moving towards permanent and full centralization like a speed train. In 1 year there will be 2 mining pools, each controlling 50% of the hashrate.
Yes. PoW is immune from permanent centralization by the simple fact that technology always improves. If one person controls all technology development we'll have bigger problems than how we buy porn online.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
devphp
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September 24, 2014, 03:20:14 PM
 #312



So? Is PoW immune from permanent centralization? No, it is not. It's moving towards permanent and full centralization like a speed train. In 1 year there will be 2 mining pools, each controlling 50% of the hashrate.
Yes. PoW is immune from permanent centralization by the simple fact that technology always improves. If one person controls all technology development we'll have bigger problems than how we buy porn online.

Reality shows a different picture. PoW is trending towards centralization, PoS is more decentralized. It's blockchain stats, not my imagination.
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September 24, 2014, 03:22:04 PM
 #313

Anyone can start a PoS and it is just as secure as anyone else's. They're like wooden nickels. Worthless. I'll use them if my nation declares them legal tender, but not before because there is no fair distribution with any of them. Governments will only distribute them to themselves anyway so why bother buying into them beforehand? In fact the philosophy behind PoS is so state-centric, I don't see why anyone bothers to develop them. Nobody has yet shown that they are immune from permanent centralization. So just face it, they are ideal for central banks.

Nobody has shown that Bitcoin is immune from centralization. On the contrary, it's getting more centralized with each passing day. Welcome to corporate crypto world, crypto slaves, say greetings to your crypto masters (aka early bitcoin adopters), they own you.
Nice strawman. I didn't say centralization. I said permanent centralization.

bitcoins continued centralization is not temporary, and if anything, the more centralized it becomes the more "permanent" it is.. the miners are like the banks, once they have the monopoly, are the hell going to give it up.. they will want to weed out every little miner until their is a small consortium of miners bringing in all the bitcoins into the hands of a very small few.. the longer time goes on the worse this gets.. it happens in every major profit making industry.. telecoms, electricity, water, banking, bla bla bla.. all started out with loads of little companies/businesses/public owned but as time goes on their are fewer and fewer players in these markets because the larger guys are pushing out the smaller ones by making it impossible for them to compete or just buying them out. the exact same thing is happening with bitcoin. more than likely in a few more years there will be 3-4 major miners at best.. another few years and it could be one guy that owns all of them.. he gets corrupted - bitcoin is FUCKED!

stop spewing such crap around, all your doing is trying to brain wash the newbies into thinking that PoS is a load of crap when your very obviously wrong. as if its even going to have any effect what so ever.
What group has claimed permanent control of bitcoin? Please prove your claim?

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
devphp
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September 24, 2014, 03:23:43 PM
 #314

What group has claimed permanent control of bitcoin? Please prove your claim?

Do you have proof that any single entity controls PoS?
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September 24, 2014, 03:24:35 PM
 #315



So? Is PoW immune from permanent centralization? No, it is not. It's moving towards permanent and full centralization like a speed train. In 1 year there will be 2 mining pools, each controlling 50% of the hashrate.
Yes. PoW is immune from permanent centralization by the simple fact that technology always improves. If one person controls all technology development we'll have bigger problems than how we buy porn online.

Reality shows a different picture. PoW is trending towards centralization, PoS is more decentralized. It's blockchain stats, not my imagination.
Your PoS blockchain stats are easily faked to make them look decentralized. Don't be so easily fooled by ip masking and proxies.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
devphp
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September 24, 2014, 03:25:42 PM
 #316



So? Is PoW immune from permanent centralization? No, it is not. It's moving towards permanent and full centralization like a speed train. In 1 year there will be 2 mining pools, each controlling 50% of the hashrate.
Yes. PoW is immune from permanent centralization by the simple fact that technology always improves. If one person controls all technology development we'll have bigger problems than how we buy porn online.

Reality shows a different picture. PoW is trending towards centralization, PoS is more decentralized. It's blockchain stats, not my imagination.
Your PoS blockchain stats are easily faked to make them look decentralized. Don't be so easily fooled by ip masking and proxies.

That's a guess, not proof. IPs have nothing to do with stats by the way. You obviously have no idea what you're talking about.
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September 24, 2014, 03:27:21 PM
 #317

What group has claimed permanent control of bitcoin? Please prove your claim?

Do you have proof that any single entity controls PoS?
That's unfalsifiable. PoS has no way to know when it happens. That's the problem. I don't have a problem if governments use PoS because we can unelect them.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
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September 24, 2014, 03:29:01 PM
 #318



So? Is PoW immune from permanent centralization? No, it is not. It's moving towards permanent and full centralization like a speed train. In 1 year there will be 2 mining pools, each controlling 50% of the hashrate.
Yes. PoW is immune from permanent centralization by the simple fact that technology always improves. If one person controls all technology development we'll have bigger problems than how we buy porn online.

Reality shows a different picture. PoW is trending towards centralization, PoS is more decentralized. It's blockchain stats, not my imagination.
Your PoS blockchain stats are easily faked to make them look decentralized. Don't be so easily fooled by ip masking and proxies.

That's a guess, not proof. IPs have nothing to do with stats by the way. You obviously have no idea what you're talking about.
You didn't show me any stats. Please show me independently verifiable stats.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
devphp
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September 24, 2014, 03:29:45 PM
 #319

What group has claimed permanent control of bitcoin? Please prove your claim?

Do you have proof that any single entity controls PoS?
That's unfalsifiable. PoS has no way to know when it happens. That's the problem. I don't have a problem if governments use PoS because we can unelect them.

PoW has no way to know when it happens too. How do you know if Ghash doesn't control already 70% of hashrate? After all, it did go above 50%, do you think they just switched off part of their systems or still mining but from a different IP now? Which is more likely?
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September 24, 2014, 03:32:51 PM
 #320

You didn't show me any stats. Please show me independently verifiable stats.

I don't need to. You say that PoS is controlled, you show the stats and the proof that it's controlled. We've all seen the stats for Bitcoin when Ghash had it owned, that's been proven.
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