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Author Topic: Starting a new FPGA mining farm/contract! Cognitive Resurrected on[Havelock]  (Read 274479 times)
YoYa
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March 25, 2014, 09:48:36 PM
 #2621

some of the largest holders are already working on this. Garr needs to be gone since we cant leave on our own.

Goat, shouldn't we be doing this using the appropriate forum of shareholder meetings, motions, and agreements?

You've made clear your feelings towards Garr, now let's find the means to secure COG's future by using the appropriate processes and procedures necessary to form an agreeable corporate structure going forward.

Now with regard to that, we should establish a corporate structure which would basically be an board to which operations would report. In COG's case, we are somewhat limited by the options available, but I do believe we could form a three or four person board representing: Operations, Large Shareholders, Small Shareholders, and Chairperson. Operations will be held responsible to the board, who may raise a motion to remove anyone they may feel isn't completing their duties. The board will be responsible for scheduling shareholder meetings, agendas, and ensuring that reports are published in a timely manner. The board might also be a good interface for the exchanges in dealing with COG.

Operations will consist of:
Finance
Mining Support
Shareholder support and PR
Hardware acquisition.

Given the size of the operation, it will be acceptable for one person to hold more than one role starting out. This should give us enough flexibility to secure the smooth running of the operation as well as ensuring that shareholders interests are looked after and maintained.

This is just a constructive suggestion to try and share my knowledge on the matter, any other suggestions would be welcome.
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March 25, 2014, 10:09:28 PM
 #2622

The end of this week is when we will more or less finalize our action, not too late to join us. And no, we are not a majority but we are a large minority.
Did I miss the call to arms?

What is your plan?  To take over and run Cog or write it off and just go after Garr?
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March 25, 2014, 10:55:11 PM
 #2623

You are free to do what you want, I am free to do what I want. Garr has clearly broken his word and not only that, locked down the stock trading! This manipulation is obscene. He can't just leave it to stealing funds and mismanagement, nope he needs more.

The end of this week is when we will more or less finalize our action, not too late to join us. And no, we are not a majority but we are a large minority.

Aye, but this shouldn't be about individual actions. You already have the means and a group to bring it to shareholders to advance your accusations, and likewise you should have faith that your co-owners of the stock will decide appropriately on your groups information and motions put forward towards the actions you feel appropriate.

At the end of the day, we should have a common goal which is the outcome most profitable to us all. Your desire to hold Garr to account is not mutually exclusive to other actions we should be taking to safeguard COG's future should we not decide to wrap it up by litigation or any other means.
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March 25, 2014, 11:07:21 PM
 #2624

some of the largest holders are already working on this. Garr needs to be gone since we cant leave on our own.

Goat, shouldn't we be doing this using the appropriate forum of shareholder meetings, motions, and agreements?

You've made clear your feelings towards Garr, now let's find the means to secure COG's future by using the appropriate processes and procedures necessary to form an agreeable corporate structure going forward.

Now with regard to that, we should establish a corporate structure which would basically be an board to which operations would report. In COG's case, we are somewhat limited by the options available, but I do believe we could form a three or four person board representing: Operations, Large Shareholders, Small Shareholders, and Chairperson. Operations will be held responsible to the board, who may raise a motion to remove anyone they may feel isn't completing their duties. The board will be responsible for scheduling shareholder meetings, agendas, and ensuring that reports are published in a timely manner. The board might also be a good interface for the exchanges in dealing with COG.

Operations will consist of:
Finance
Mining Support
Shareholder support and PR
Hardware acquisition.

Given the size of the operation, it will be acceptable for one person to hold more than one role starting out. This should give us enough flexibility to secure the smooth running of the operation as well as ensuring that shareholders interests are looked after and maintained.

This is just a constructive suggestion to try and share my knowledge on the matter, any other suggestions would be welcome.

This is along the lines of what I am thinking. There is no reason necessarily to exclude Garrett from the operation but it is clear that some experienced operators need to step in for certain oversight and finance roles. Best case scenario is agreements that avoid court action as a very last resort yet make a large majority of shareholders relatively whole. It's clear there are holders here who have skills that could be put to cognitive mining's best use.  There is no reason not to use talent that is available provided they are able to prove trustworthiness or are able to escrow some coin as Tafelpoot mentioned.  



Garrett would you be willing to be responsible for the mining part, while leaving the management part to someone else?
You were still not able to give a detailed and provable overview of the expenses and income of the last 6 months and a lot of bitcoins seem to be missing in the fund.
Some external person could produce new 1cog adresses for you to put the miners to and take care of issuing the dividends.
While it doesn't protect cognitive from you pointing the miners to personal addresses, it does safeguard the reinvestment fund from you using it for personal loans (FIMB) and other projects (HF bailout).
I'd be willing to do this and even put some of my own btc with a reputable escrow to show that I wouldn't just run away with the funds.




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March 25, 2014, 11:17:36 PM
 #2625

Well to be blunt, you can't stop me. Garr has some options and we will see what he does. Half the stuff I'm going to be doing was more or less written up last summer. We are just adding to it and then will file. Sadly for Garr it will be in our best interest to see him convicted of a crime before we try to collect damages. We will see if the state thinks he has done anything illegal, or not. The stock manipulation (locking trades cuz low prices) seems highly illegal for example.

And that's alright, but you have to ask yourself can you save COG while bringing Garr to justice? Are your motivations rational or driven by the desire for to seek personal objectives against Garr? If you are being rational, then hopefully you will have also made provisions to salvage COG while bringing Garr to task. Do you wish to both save COG and bring Garr to justice, or is it just a desire to pursue your own personal objective?
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March 25, 2014, 11:20:27 PM
 #2626

I doubt Havelock would have stopped trading solely upon Garrett's request. Is there any evidence of this? Maybe Havelock could comment?

We have paused trading for the moment until we complete an internal investigation of the COG Fund.

We will keep everyone posted in a timely and public matter.

Thank you,

Havelock Investments

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March 25, 2014, 11:26:57 PM
 #2627

You are free to do what you want, I am free to do what I want. Garr has clearly broken his word and not only that, locked down the stock trading! This manipulation is obscene. He can't just leave it to stealing funds and mismanagement, nope he needs more.

The end of this week is when we will more or less finalize our action, not too late to join us. And no, we are not a majority but we are a large minority.

Aye, but this shouldn't be about individual actions. You already have the means and a group to bring it to shareholders to advance your accusations, and likewise you should have faith that your co-owners of the stock will decide appropriately on your groups information and motions put forward towards the actions you feel appropriate.

At the end of the day, we should have a common goal which is the outcome most profitable to us all. Your desire to hold Garr to account is not mutually exclusive to other actions we should be taking to safeguard COG's future should we not decide to wrap it up by litigation or any other means.

Agreed.
Unilateral action is not appropriate here.


A motion was raised on the 20th and ends on the 27th. The purpose of the motion was to determine if
shareholders wanted to liquidate COG or not. According to Garrett, the majority of the votes were
in favour of NOT liquidating. I'm sure we can verify this if Garr sends out the hashed results.

I am going to email the SHA-256 hashes of the emails and their accompanying votes, so this way you will be able to verify your own vote was counted while not compromising the email addresses of all other shareholders. (A good tool for this is here)


Additionally, mining with 20 TH/s at the current difficulty of 5 billion will yield 0.5 mBTC per
share per week in dividends. Traditionally bitcoin securities trade for between 3 and 10 times
their instantaneous annualized return. Dividends of 0.5 mBTC per week would support a share price of
between 0.08 and 0.26 BTC. Given current sentiment regarding Cognitive's future I would call it
0.08 BTC at best. This will increase as we get more hardware online and if action such as that
proposed by YoYa and SilverFuture can be taken to restore faith in the running of Cognitive.

If unilateral action is taken by Goat et al, they will, as of Monday, cost all of us a minimum of
approximately 0.08 BTC per share and any chance of turning Cognitive around.



Well to be blunt, you can't stop me. Garr has some options and we will see what he does. Half the stuff I'm going to be doing was more or less written up last summer. We are just adding to it and then will file. Sadly for Garr it will be in our best interest to see him convicted of a crime before we try to collect damages. We will see if the state thinks he has done anything illegal, or not. The stock manipulation (locking trades cuz low prices) seems highly illegal for example.

And that's alright, but you have to ask yourself can you save COG while bringing Garr to justice? Are your motivations rational or driven by the desire for to seek personal objectives against Garr? If you are being rational, then hopefully you will have also made provisions to salvage COG while bringing Garr to task. Do you wish to both save COG and bring Garr to justice, or is it just a desire to pursue your own personal objective?

+1
This is largely being driven by a personal issue between Garrett and Goat. No need to drag the rest of us into it.
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March 25, 2014, 11:34:56 PM
 #2628


This is largely being driven by a personal issue between Garrett and Goat. No need to drag the rest of us into it.

Garr is the one who took it to this point. He knew the risks.

No argument here. Garr fucked up. However, your actions are compounding the fuck up.
This is in nobody's best interest.
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March 25, 2014, 11:41:32 PM
 #2629

... Traditionally bitcoin securities trade for between 3 and 10 times their instantaneous annualized return...

Traditional securities don't depreciate by 50 to 200% *monthly*.  This is bitcoin mining, a very untraditional security Smiley
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March 25, 2014, 11:54:26 PM
 #2630

... Traditionally bitcoin securities trade for between 3 and 10 times their instantaneous annualized return...

Traditional securities don't depreciate by 50 to 200% *monthly*.  This is bitcoin mining, a very untraditional security Smiley

Check up historical prices and dividends. BTC mining securities generally have adjusted to maintain a yield of 10-30%, with the occasional spike up or down depending on news.



This is largely being driven by a personal issue between Garrett and Goat. No need to drag the rest of us into it.

Garr is the one who took it to this point. He knew the risks.

No argument here. Garr fucked up. However, your actions are compounding the fuck up.
This is in nobody's best interest.

Seems like you would defend Pirate if he took 95% of the money but held 5% over your head and was saying he might give it back later.

We might get back .08 of .6     Who really cares? Why are you letting him fuck you and get away with it?

I'm not here to make friends, Goat. I'm here to minimize my losses and maximize my gains.

--EDIT--
Speaking of minimizing losses. Garr, if you're lurking, miners 3, 5 & 6 are down and 4 & 7 need a reboot. There seems to have been some power event at ~17:00 GMT
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March 25, 2014, 11:57:59 PM
 #2631

I think the best course of action would be to have a vote to remove/replace management.

This should happen soon before garr is slammed by the law.

If the feds do come for him, they will have a plethora of broken laws to choose from.
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March 26, 2014, 12:05:20 AM
 #2632

... Traditionally bitcoin securities trade for between 3 and 10 times their instantaneous annualized return...

Traditional securities don't depreciate by 50 to 200% *monthly*.  This is bitcoin mining, a very untraditional security Smiley

Check up historical prices and dividends. BTC mining securities generally have adjusted to maintain a yield of 10-30%, with the occasional spike up or down depending on news.
...

wut?  Historical prices tell me that no mining bonds have made money for "investors."  So not sure what you're saying.  The winner you picked closed at what, 1% of the IPO price?  Before trading was halted?  How do you figure 10-30%?
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March 26, 2014, 12:14:14 AM
 #2633

... Traditionally bitcoin securities trade for between 3 and 10 times their instantaneous annualized return...

Traditional securities don't depreciate by 50 to 200% *monthly*.  This is bitcoin mining, a very untraditional security Smiley

Check up historical prices and dividends. BTC mining securities generally have adjusted to maintain a yield of 10-30%, with the occasional spike up or down depending on news.
...

wut?  Historical prices tell me that no mining bonds have made money for "investors."  So not sure what you're saying.  The winner you picked closed at what, 1% of the IPO price?  Before trading was halted?  How do you figure 10-30%?

(Current weekly dividend) * 52 / (Current share price) was typically around 10-30%. If the yield goes up, the share price goes up to maintain the ratio  and vice versa.

Below is a historical graph for Cognitive on BTCT-CO. The yield got out of whack last July as the price spiked > 0.6 due to some hysteria and poorly thought out speculation on BTC securities.

http://www.coinflow.co/chart/COGNITIVE
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March 26, 2014, 12:33:47 AM
 #2634


... Traditionally bitcoin securities trade for between 3 and 10 times their instantaneous annualized return...


What does  that have to do with annualized return for this ... thing, which, with the price dropping from .2 to .002, is amazingly negative?
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March 26, 2014, 12:41:21 AM
 #2635

...
... Traditionally bitcoin securities trade for between 3 and 10 times their instantaneous annualized return...
...

What does  that have to do with instantaneous annualized return for this ... thing, which, with the price dropping from .2 to .002, is amazingly negative?

This last drop to 0.002 BTC was the end result of Garrett fucking up, Stabs dumping his shares and Goat threatening to burn down what's left.
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March 26, 2014, 12:58:31 AM
 #2636

Regardless, it's a fact.  If you're going to quote charts and post numbers, dumping the ones you don't care for is shit practice -- do it right.
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March 26, 2014, 01:12:11 AM
 #2637

Regardless, it's a fact.  If you're going to quote charts and post numbers, dumping the ones you don't care for is shit practice -- do it right.

What numbers am I dumping?

There have been times when the share price went through the roof without the returns to justify it. See the jump from 0.5 to 1 BTC last July.

There have been times when the price dropped like a rock because of panic selling. See stabs dumping 400 odd shares into a shallow orderbook a couple of days ago.

You'll see similar movements for most other btc securities out there. A slight exception being ASICMiner.

However, for most BTC securities *in general*,  0.3 > ((weekly div)*52/(share price)) < 0.1
This means that, generally, people have decided that risking their money for a 10-30% reward was worth it.

When (or if) trading reopens for COG and the first dividends have been paid, people are going to try to value a share. History says that the above rule would be true (in normal circumstances), giving a price of >0.08 BTC. But at the moment, most people will be worried that either Garr will fuck up again or Goat will try to tear the whole thing apart. This will have an impact.
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March 26, 2014, 01:24:24 AM
 #2638

Regardless, it's a fact.  If you're going to quote charts and post numbers, dumping the ones you don't care for is shit practice -- do it right.

What numbers am I dumping?

There have been times when the share price went through the roof without the returns to justify it...

ORLY?  Times when the price went up to 20BTC per share?  'Coz that's the kind of upward outlier you'd need to match this x100 drop.  Ether learn to spin better or stop doing it altogether -- this ain't working 4 u.
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March 26, 2014, 06:20:50 AM
 #2639

Hello everyone,

Here are some updates/answers to questions/other info:

- The CT units sent to Canada are at the border right now. They should pass through security tomorrow morning and arrive at the datacenter by noon.

Garr, if you're lurking, miners 3, 5 & 6 are down and 4 & 7 need a reboot. There seems to have been some power event at ~17:00 GMT
- Garrett was just at the shop troubleshooting. The hashrate should increase momentarily.

- In response to questions about where the hardware will reside after this month: hardware will be moved to a different data center only if it is more profitable to do so. For the same reason, some units may stay in Bozeman - it just comes down to the math. We can discuss this more in a few weeks.

- The results of the motion will be released on Friday, and verified using SHA-256 hashes.

- Garrett and I were thinking it would be a good idea to do an IRC where anyone can ask questions, give input, etc. We are planning to do the IRC from 9AM to 10AM Mountain Central Time this Thursday Mar. 27. Use the channel #cognitivemining at chat.freenode.net.


Goat, shouldn't we be doing this using the appropriate forum of shareholder meetings, motions, and agreements?

You've made clear your feelings towards Garr, now let's find the means to secure COG's future by using the appropriate processes and procedures necessary to form an agreeable corporate structure going forward.

Now with regard to that, we should establish a corporate structure which would basically be an board to which operations would report. In COG's case, we are somewhat limited by the options available, but I do believe we could form a three or four person board representing: Operations, Large Shareholders, Small Shareholders, and Chairperson. Operations will be held responsible to the board, who may raise a motion to remove anyone they may feel isn't completing their duties. The board will be responsible for scheduling shareholder meetings, agendas, and ensuring that reports are published in a timely manner. The board might also be a good interface for the exchanges in dealing with COG.

Operations will consist of:
Finance
Mining Support
Shareholder support and PR
Hardware acquisition.

Given the size of the operation, it will be acceptable for one person to hold more than one role starting out. This should give us enough flexibility to secure the smooth running of the operation as well as ensuring that shareholders interests are looked after and maintained.

This is just a constructive suggestion to try and share my knowledge on the matter, any other suggestions would be welcome.
- Garrett thinks this may be a good idea. Anyone who would like to give input on this idea, or who would be interested in becoming a board member, please email either Garrett or me. Of course, nothing will be decided without a motion, but we would like to see what kind of interest exists.
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March 26, 2014, 06:25:17 AM
 #2640

Are the datacenter electricity rates really $0.37/kwh?
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