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Author Topic: ███►BetcoinRakeback.com | 58-83% RAKEBACK [Here ONLY] | ACR WPN Tourneys◄███  (Read 98771 times)
DarkDays
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January 22, 2016, 12:04:22 AM
 #601


 Just take a look at the PokerStars brand and the changes they've made....  

Those changes were universally reviled both for their underhandedness in implementation and short sighted nature of Stars' cash grab.  That is a bad example to use.


Quote
 However, considering how low the rake was before AND how much rewards players got, changes were inevitable and needed to be done.

First off, that's illogical.  Raising the rake because one or two people per table could receive extra rewards doesn't make sense...if it's costing you money, you cut the rewards (just...like...Stars did.  Remember what you said like one sentence ago?).  The fact of the matter is, the player base is so unintelligent that many players were NOT taking advantage of the bonus rewards.  Go lobby watch for a few hours, you'll see a ton of people joining and leaving a table before an hour is up, joining as the third man on a table when a HU table is open, or playing on HU tables when they could open a 6 or 9 max table and get extra rewards.  Seriously, nearly nobody is taking advantage of the rewards and the few that do are starting games...which is what the rewards were designed to do, which makes Betcoin money!

So that whole argument is illogical and wrong.  The 'change' that is inevitable is that Betcoin needs more players who are going to play poker.  Or they will fail.  Scumming active players isn't going to accomplish that.



Quote
 Right now everything is transparent and I don't see what the problem is.

The problem is that Betcoin overraked 600,000 hands.  

A more meta problem is how they respond to issues where they are in the wrong.  Everytime something happens where Betcoin did something wrong...even if it's a mistake (and if asked to guess, I'd guess most of these problems are honest mistakes) they react the same way...ignore ignore ignore.  It happened here, they dissipated from their OWN THREADS for a month!  All instead of saying "oh wow it looks like we messed up, we'll look into it and rectify the situation".  So yes, right now everything is working fine, but what is going to happen in a month or two when the next bug or problem crops up?  More ignoring, more scumming, zero rectifying of the situation.  


Quote
What would you like them to do?  Spend 200 hours going through old records and refunding 300 players with a measely .02-10 mbtc each?  And then spend another 200 hours going through records and deducting .2 - 10 mbtc's from those that were overpaid with rewards?  It's not worth it to everyone and probably isn't even attainable.

First off, you can't take money out of people's accounts because you raked them too much.  That's another illogical nonsense thing that you've said in blind defense.

And yes, the thing they are expected to do is run a report, figure out how much extra rake every player on the site had stolen from them, and refund those players.  Why do you think that that isn't attainable (it would take someone under a day to write a script and run a report to figure that out), yet them stealing probably tens of coins is a valid solution?



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January 22, 2016, 02:40:42 AM
 #602


 Just take a look at the PokerStars brand and the changes they've made....  

Those changes were universally reviled both for their underhandedness in implementation and short sighted nature of Stars' cash grab.  That is a bad example to use.


Quote
 However, considering how low the rake was before AND how much rewards players got, changes were inevitable and needed to be done.

First off, that's illogical.  Raising the rake because one or two people per table could receive extra rewards doesn't make sense...if it's costing you money, you cut the rewards (just...like...Stars did.  Remember what you said like one sentence ago?).  The fact of the matter is, the player base is so unintelligent that many players were NOT taking advantage of the bonus rewards.  Go lobby watch for a few hours, you'll see a ton of people joining and leaving a table before an hour is up, joining as the third man on a table when a HU table is open, or playing on HU tables when they could open a 6 or 9 max table and get extra rewards.  Seriously, nearly nobody is taking advantage of the rewards and the few that do are starting games...which is what the rewards were designed to do, which makes Betcoin money!

So that whole argument is illogical and wrong.  The 'change' that is inevitable is that Betcoin needs more players who are going to play poker.  Or they will fail.  Scumming active players isn't going to accomplish that.



Quote
Right now everything is transparent and I don't see what the problem is.

The problem is that Betcoin overraked 600,000 hands.  

A more meta problem is how they respond to issues where they are in the wrong.  Everytime something happens where Betcoin did something wrong...even if it's a mistake (and if asked to guess, I'd guess most of these problems are honest mistakes) they react the same way...ignore ignore ignore.  It happened here, they dissipated from their OWN THREADS for a month!  All instead of saying "oh wow it looks like we messed up, we'll look into it and rectify the situation".  So yes, right now everything is working fine, but what is going to happen in a month or two when the next bug or problem crops up?  More ignoring, more scumming, zero rectifying of the situation.  


Quote
What would you like them to do?  Spend 200 hours going through old records and refunding 300 players with a measely .02-10 mbtc each?  And then spend another 200 hours going through records and deducting .2 - 10 mbtc's from those that were overpaid with rewards?  It's not worth it to everyone and probably isn't even attainable.

First off, you can't take money out of people's accounts because you raked them too much.  That's another illogical nonsense thing that you've said in blind defense.

And yes, the thing they are expected to do is run a report, figure out how much extra rake every player on the site had stolen from them, and refund those players.  Why do you think that that isn't attainable (it would take someone under a day to write a script and run a report to figure that out), yet them stealing probably tens of coins is a valid solution?





You're welcome to use this thread as a platform to voice your displeasure.  However a lot of your assumptions and claims are based on misunderstandings.  For example, did you know that Table Starter rakeback isn't the only way players were receiving greater than 100% rakeback? So that is why I mentioned deducting from players' accounts because of the increase in rake.  Anyway, I am done partaking in this discussion.  This isn't the 1st time you've tried belittling me and educating me on something I probably know much more about than you. 
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January 22, 2016, 03:45:11 AM
 #603


You're welcome to use this thread as a platform to voice your displeasure.  However a lot of your assumptions and claims are based on misunderstandings.  For example, did you know that Table Starter rakeback isn't the only way players were receiving greater than 100% rakeback? So that is why I mentioned deducting from players' accounts because of the increase in rake.  Anyway, I am done partaking in this discussion.  This isn't the 1st time you've tried belittling me and educating me on something I probably know much more about than you. 


So you aren't going to answer any claim I make because I said boo-boo naughty words?  Because I'm educating you on things that you've never responded to or shown any knowledge about?  Once again, you are being illogical and ignoring everything that I'm saying.

Betcoin overraked it's players on nearly 600,000 hands.  Do you agree or disagree with that statement.  If you disagree: why?  If you agree: what do you think they should do to compensate it's players?  What are you doing, as an affiliate FOR the players, to advance their positions?
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January 22, 2016, 07:35:41 PM
 #604


You're welcome to use this thread as a platform to voice your displeasure.  However a lot of your assumptions and claims are based on misunderstandings.  For example, did you know that Table Starter rakeback isn't the only way players were receiving greater than 100% rakeback? So that is why I mentioned deducting from players' accounts because of the increase in rake.  Anyway, I am done partaking in this discussion.  This isn't the 1st time you've tried belittling me and educating me on something I probably know much more about than you. 


So you aren't going to answer any claim I make because I said boo-boo naughty words?  Because I'm educating you on things that you've never responded to or shown any knowledge about?  Once again, you are being illogical and ignoring everything that I'm saying.

Betcoin overraked it's players on nearly 600,000 hands.  Do you agree or disagree with that statement.  If you disagree: why?  If you agree: what do you think they should do to compensate it's players?  What are you doing, as an affiliate FOR the players, to advance their positions?

I've always bargained for the highest percentages for my players.  I think my players from both the online community and IRL are more than satisfied with the services I provide.  If you want I can ask them to let you know what I've done for them in the past, and it's not just paying out RB.  I keep constant communication with a lot of my players via other mediums such as email or messenger.

Regarding everything else you've said.  No, I totally disagree with your claims.  The rake did go higher briefly but was corrected.  Why did that happen?  Probably miscommunication.  Was it a cash grab?  Absolutely not, and even if it was, it totally failed.  Like I said, during the period of which it went higher, Betcoin made no monetary gains from it because of the >100% RB players, VIP, Table Starter, etc.  Yes, some players received 100% rakeback (a program which has ended now) + VIP rakeback + all other promo's.  So the higher the rake, the more they made.
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January 22, 2016, 07:39:12 PM
 #605

The Hi-5 Tournaments continue today.  Great structure and setup.  Get in now!
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January 23, 2016, 05:52:35 AM
 #606

I've always bargained for the highest percentages for my players.  I think my players from both the online community and IRL are more than satisfied with the services I provide.  If you want I can ask them to let you know what I've done for them in the past, and it's not just paying out RB.  I keep constant communication with a lot of my players via other mediums such as email or messenger.

This isn't a personal attack on you.

You've chosen to affiliate yourself with Betcoin and promote their services. 

I realize you are probably in a tough spot with all this passive income coming your way and not wanting to piss them off - that doesn't make it ok to just pretend like they are running things honestly.

Once again it seems like you've barely read a word of my time line and explanation...




Quote from: Xiaoxiao
The rake did go higher briefly but was corrected. 

They knew about it on 11/14 and did nothing about it untill 12/9 (asked for "rake testers") and then increased the official rake.  I've proven this several times already. Thats more than 3 weeks and nearly 600,000 hands.  "Briefly?" 



Quote from: XiaoXiao
Why did that happen?  Probably miscommunication.  Was it a cash grab?  Absolutely not, and even if it was, it totally failed. 

Very likely it was just an honest mistake to begin with.  If only they just returned the money, it still would be.



Quote from: XiaoXiao
Like I said, during the period of which it went higher, Betcoin made no monetary gains from it because of the >100% RB players, VIP, Table Starter, etc.  Yes, some players received 100% rakeback (a program which has ended now) + VIP rakeback + all other promo's.  So the higher the rake, the more they made.

This is a ridiculous assumption.  Almost as ridiculous as claiming it would take hundreds of man hours to process the refunds.  I would bet they EASILY took over 10 bitcoins in rake they were not entitled to and already explained why, did you read it? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=683727.msg13581711#msg13581711

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January 23, 2016, 07:49:28 AM
 #607

Betcoin overraked it's players on nearly 600,000 hands.  Do you agree or disagree with that statement.  If you disagree: why?  If you agree: what do you think they should do to compensate it's players?  What are you doing, as an affiliate FOR the players, to advance their positions?


Regarding everything else you've said.  No, I totally disagree with your claims.
[/quote]

I asked a question.  What about my claim ("Betcoin overraked it's players on nearly 600,000 hands. ) do you disagree with?  Did Betcoin overrake pots?  YES!  It's been proven!  The fact that a small number of people were able to (and an even smaller number took advantage of) get most, all, or more than that amount of rake back is irrelevant. 
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January 23, 2016, 09:38:16 AM
 #608

Betcoin overraked it's players on nearly 600,000 hands.  Do you agree or disagree with that statement.  If you disagree: why?  If you agree: what do you think they should do to compensate it's players?  What are you doing, as an affiliate FOR the players, to advance their positions?


Regarding everything else you've said.  No, I totally disagree with your claims.

I asked a question.  What about my claim ("Betcoin overraked it's players on nearly 600,000 hands. ) do you disagree with?  Did Betcoin overrake pots?  YES!  It's been proven!  The fact that a small number of people were able to (and an even smaller number took advantage of) get most, all, or more than that amount of rake back is irrelevant. 
[/quote]

Hi, could you please give me some more proofs/statements about this.
It's quite interesting because rake is usually set as % and I'm curious how they overraked over 600K hands. Is it because of their huge RB promos?
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January 23, 2016, 08:02:25 PM
 #609

I signed up using your referral link. Please confirm my registration.

Btw, is there a minimum rake to reach in order to get paid from you?

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  Semux uses .100% original codebase.
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January 23, 2016, 10:04:37 PM
 #610

I signed up using your referral link. Please confirm my registration.

Btw, is there a minimum rake to reach in order to get paid from you?

Confirmed.  There isn't a minimum rake one has to reach before getting paid.  Take care!
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January 24, 2016, 02:18:02 AM
 #611

I can actually amend the time frame as I found some hands today from 11/11 that were over raked. 
(Previously I only had proof this was happening as early as 11/14)

Hi, could you please give me some more proofs/statements about this.
It's quite interesting because rake is usually set as % and I'm curious how they overraked over 600K hands. Is it because of their huge RB promos?

Hi sure,

First of all there are two variables that will affect how much rake is taken in a cash game: Percentage and Cap.

The percentage is determined before the hand and based on the number of players dealt in as well as the stakes (size of the blinds).

The Cap is the maximum amount that may be taken from any pot, no matter what the size is.  It's also determined by number of players and stakes, but only affects hands where the pot is large enough that the percentage is greater than the cap.

In lower stakes games, the percentage is a much bigger factor on total rake than cap. 

As you increase the stakes, the cap will influence the total rake more and more, to the point where it's really the only thing that matters (example:  25/50 NL, 2.5% rake with a cap of 2.  They will just be taking 2 every time a flop is dealt.)

I should also mention, only hands that see a flop are raked.  "No flop, no drop"

Betcoin used to advertise a very low rake structure. You can see what it used to be HERE

Sometime on or before November 11th, something happened which cause the cap to increase significantly.  On November 14th, it was brought to Betcoins attention, you can see the post for yourself HERE .  They did nothing about it until December 9th.  Their solution was to increase the cap all around, and remove it completely from HU tables (without any warning or effort to notify after).

This is how XiaoXiao summed all of that up, btw:

Quote
The rake did go higher briefly but was corrected.


Examples:

  • Heads up tables which should of had a cap of 1 chip were having up to 5 chips taken.  Every pot that was over 40 chips were being over-raked.
  • Tables with 5+ players that should of had a cap of 2 chips were being capped at 6 chips instead.  The winner of every pot over 80 chips


This


This hand history text is from November 11th and the screen shot is from December 9th, over 4 weeks later.  They both had 6 chips taken, only 2 should have been. 
Code:
Winning Poker Network Game #10045514: No Limit Holdem ($0.50/$1) [2015/11/11 15:03:19 UTC]
Table: Stockholm
Seats: 6
Seat 1: Uphillbean ($43.02)
Seat 3: jawhartn ($68.15)
Seat 4: SunSeeker ($177.83)
Seat 5: OHYEAH ($146.66)
Seat 6: ungod ($100)
Button is seat 5
ungod: posts small blind $0.50
Uphillbean: posts big blind $1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
OHYEAH: dealt [9c Ac]
jawhartn: folds
SunSeeker: raises $3
OHYEAH: raises $14
ungod: folds
Uphillbean: folds
SunSeeker: raises $23
OHYEAH: calls $12
*** FLOP *** [Tc Ts 2c]
SunSeeker: bets $51
OHYEAH: raises all-in $120.66
SunSeeker: calls $69.66
*** TURN *** [Tc Ts 2c] [Qh]
*** RIVER *** [Tc Ts 2c] [Qh] [6d]
*** SUMMARY ***
Pot: $288.81 | Rake: $6 | BBJ: $0.01 |
Board: [Tc Ts 2c Qh 6d]
Seat 1: Uphillbean lost -$1
Seat 3: jawhartn didn't bet
Seat 4: SunSeeker won $288.81 (+$142.15) [Js Jd] Two Pair, Jacks and Tens
Seat 5: OHYEAH lost -$146.66 [9c Ac] One Pair, Tens
Seat 6: ungod lost -$0.50



I believe a significant ammount of Betcoin was taken by Betcoin from these mid stakes, non HU cash games.  I think much much more was taken from the heads up tables.

This Screen Shot is also from December 9th, a high stakes HU match which should have had it's rake capped at 1 chip per hand (any time they saw a flop, the cap was met). 

Instead Betcoin was taking 5 chips, 4 EXTRA chips EVERY flop...for FOUR WEEKS.  HU games can easily get in 100+ hands an hour and see flops 75% of the time or more...





Xiao claims:

Quote
during the period of which it went higher, Betcoin made no monetary gains from it because of the >100% RB players, VIP, Table Starter, etc.

This is total Bull Shit, and I can't imagine how any would believe this unless they didn't understand how the system works, or they just so badly wanted it to be true that they somehow convinced themselves it was.

On average, less than two players per table will be eligible for over 100% rakeback at any time. 

0% of players receive 100% rakeback at Heads Up tables.

They are a MINORITY.

Even if these players each got 1,000% rake back, it wouldn't mean Betcoin shouldn't be responsible for every last chip of every last player that had money taken from them that shouldn't have been taken.


Dooglus seems to be one of the more trusted members around here and I think the way he phrased his question to Betcoin was good:



Betcoin deleted the post without ever responding.  It was posted in THIS THREAD Check it out and notice from the last couple posts it appears everyone is happy and all issues resolved.



https://www.betcoin.ag/ring-game-rake-testers-needed

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January 24, 2016, 07:38:24 AM
 #612

I played on the promotional tables raked .... About a month and then I was accused of cheating because I only played on the promotional tables (and where I still play ??)) and with only one player ???That I would not let someone at the table !!? I blame that 7-13 time is a pool of players 13 players ??! making your bankroll around $ 112, it is easier to block than you pay !! Yes, blame !!Posted in customer support, still silent. Dear players and forum users, please refrain from registration in the poker room to resolve the situation .. Since it seems that we have lured Rakeback tables. People who really really play them from 2-3 hours are scams with the words of the administration ... !!!! An account is blocked with all your means! Good action does not seem to you ?!
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1335914.0
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January 24, 2016, 09:39:14 AM
 #613

Thanks, great! Could you please send me a screenshot about my rake on the next payment day (just once)? I want to see how it looks like Smiley

I signed up using your referral link. Please confirm my registration.

Btw, is there a minimum rake to reach in order to get paid from you?

Confirmed.  There isn't a minimum rake one has to reach before getting paid.  Take care!

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  Semux uses .100% original codebase.
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  Tested .5000 tx per block. on open network
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January 24, 2016, 03:30:51 PM
 #614

Thanks, great! Could you please send me a screenshot about my rake on the next payment day (just once)? I want to see how it looks like Smiley

I signed up using your referral link. Please confirm my registration.

Btw, is there a minimum rake to reach in order to get paid from you?

Confirmed.  There isn't a minimum rake one has to reach before getting paid.  Take care!

Certainly, have a good one!
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January 24, 2016, 05:27:53 PM
 #615

The High Five Tournament concludes today with:



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January 27, 2016, 12:05:11 PM
 #616

I will try it 😃
debuni
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January 27, 2016, 04:51:33 PM
 #617

I can actually amend the time frame as I found some hands today from 11/11 that were over raked. 
(Previously I only had proof this was happening as early as 11/14)

Hi, could you please give me some more proofs/statements about this.
It's quite interesting because rake is usually set as % and I'm curious how they overraked over 600K hands. Is it because of their huge RB promos?

Hi sure,

First of all there are two variables that will affect how much rake is taken in a cash game: Percentage and Cap.

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Dooglus seems to be one of the more trusted members around here and I think the way he phrased his question to Betcoin was good:



Betcoin deleted the post without ever responding.  It was posted in THIS THREAD Check it out and notice from the last couple posts it appears everyone is happy and all issues resolved.



https://www.betcoin.ag/ring-game-rake-testers-needed

Thank you, spent some time reading it all.

Agree, they are overaking. And refusing to give some logical explanation, deletion Dooglus post and their silence, this is making them very shady in my eyes.
Xiaoxiao
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January 28, 2016, 05:23:08 AM
 #618

Over half way done with processing rakeback.  Will finish the rest when I'm back in town by tomorrow night at the latest.  GL everyone and take care!
Xiaoxiao
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January 28, 2016, 10:58:16 PM
 #619

Over half way done with processing rakeback.  Will finish the rest when I'm back in town by tomorrow night at the latest.  GL everyone and take care!

All payments have been processed.  Apologies for the slight delay and please take care!
Xiaoxiao
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January 30, 2016, 12:51:34 AM
 #620

Whether you're an recreational or professional poker player, please take advantage of the following:


New: Refer-a-friend, Private Message me their username and sign-up date and get 5% of their net rake sent to you each week!  Who could resist 50% rakeback and higher?






100% Table Starter Rakeback Now AUTOMATED: INSTANT PAYOUT

Here's how it works:

Step 1

Go to your wallet. Open the table starter promo by clicking the Pick Tables button.



Step 2

Select a table from the list you want to play at.  To promptly find the table you are looking for in the list, please use your browser's search function (CTRL+F).



Step 3

Go back to the table starter bonus panel and click the refresh button (or reload the page). The system will now show the table as pending. You have 5 minutes to sit at this exact table from the time you check it out. If you are not seated at this table within 5 minutes the promo for this table will be canceled and you will need to start over again. Also, make sure that you are not sitting at the table before starting the promo.



Step 4

Once the system has confirmed that you are sitting at the table you will now need to sit at this table straight for at least 1 hour. If you leave the table before reaching 1 hour then the promo will cancel for this table and you will need to start over. You can track your progress in the table starter bonus panel.



Step 5

Instantly receive chips!


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