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Author Topic: BTCD is no more  (Read 1312707 times)
jl777
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July 22, 2014, 07:48:27 PM
 #1861

Hello!

I am part of BTCD community now and I happen to be developing a cryptonote fork to add anon features to NXT. It turns out that my methods should apply to BTCD also. I will be working on integrating cryptonote tech into BTCD, but it is more than "just" cryptonote anon tech as I am also making my solution include a near realtime exchange (InstantDEX) so people can directly trade just by running the coin.

How will all this work you ask?
https://github.com/jl777/pNXT has the current source code and it is rapidly being developed.

Once InstantDEX is done, I will be adding Privatebet (peer to peer sportsbook) to the pNXT framework, plus the way it is implemented there is no reason any other number of useful services cant be added.

My efforts are in parallel with all the other BTCD coders and I try to design a clever way to integrate to require minimal changes to the BTCD codebase. So, if I succeed, then all the peoples selling at current prices will not be so happy.
There is no reason that other anon tech in BTCD can't combine with the cryptonote tech, in fact pushing tx through two independent anon algos would only help if it is done properly. So, I bring very good news to BTCD and now I expect a massive in increase in the FUD level Smiley

James

P.S. I am not so active on BTT, but you can find out more about me on NXT forums and jl777.org

Will the cryptonote tech lead to any issues with blockchain bloat?


yes,blockchain bloat is an issue for all cryptonote coins, however I chose the boolberry fork to base my work on as it was the most advanced as far as blockchain pruning and just being more efficient. However, I have a plan to use a blockchain FIFO to deal with whatever bloat issues we get. There is no reason to store the entire blockchain, but you do have to process it once. A FIFO is perfect for that, just set the FIFO size to the max lookback window into the blockchain dataset you need (of course you need to store all the keyimages, but that is smaller than the full blockchain). Then after loading the blockchain the first time, all that is left in memory is the FIFO. So as long as you have HDD space you are fine, not limited by system RAM

James

P.S. I am also toying with the idea of using the cryptonote blockchain as a sidechain and maintaining a decentralized ledger. Then we can simply toss the blockchain as soon as there is consensus. However, this is pretty tricky, so most likely not for the first version.

It hasn't been done yet because you if you ever need to revert the blockchain because of a fork, or if an exchange is hacked, then you cannot.

This just encourages hackers to infiltrate exchanges, or even exchanges themselves to take the coins because they know they have them permanently.

Cool idea though.
Not sure what you mean by "it hasnt been done yet"
I happen to specialize in doing stuff that "hasnt been done yet"
So, if you are talking about the blockchain FIFO, just set the FIFO depth to longer than the longest fork, say 3 days. Then functionally the blockchain FIFO will be identical to the full blockchain. The one issue is that it cannot provide historical blockchains for other nodes, so there would need to be reference nodes with the full blockchain. Hmm, maybe something like hubs in a hub and spoke network? Say within the privacyServer?

As far as InstantDEX, yes it is quite an "impossible" problem to solve. That is why it has taken me 3 months to get a workable design that incorporates atomic exchanges. To cover additional cases, I also did a subatomic exchange, that's where you have overlapped and synchronized micropayment channels setup directly between two wallets. No exchange at all. Just direct peer to peer trading. The problems are that it is cumbersome and not so fast to do subatomic trades, but if you want to be able to swap 100 BTC for 1000 BTCD directly, there would be no alternative method.

Now as long as both nodes are on the same fork, then any trades between them will either be nullified or accepted when the fork resolves. If it is nullified, then the protocol would be for both sides to resubmit their tx. Now it is possible that one of the nodes wont be around to do so and the other node is compromised and does only the half of the trade advantageous to do so, but I think the requirement is that if you are trading and it happens that there was a major fork then you need to do some cleanup, if not, then you will lose out, so my guess is that most people will resubmit their tx.

James

http://www.digitalcatallaxy.com/report2015.html
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July 22, 2014, 07:53:50 PM
 #1862

this coin has paid me well with so little in circulation i don't know whether to buy back in or wait. ive moved profits into saffron coin but feel this may beat dark if cryptonote tech actually gets implemented. the problem with cryptonote coins is sending payments where you have give tx id. if that could be solved with BTCD, it would be awesome
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July 22, 2014, 07:54:49 PM
 #1863

Btw, this is how easy this 'CryptoNote' protocol is to implement.

https://cryptonotestarter.org/

Ring signatures bloat the blockchain insanely as well. Monero's is almost 1 gigabyte now and it was 100 megabytes 20 days ago.

However, I will give it to the developer; you perfected the initial distribution and PoW.

This coin will trump Monero (100%) because of that, plus since the network is supported by ASICS, the speeds will be faster.

But, again, this coin is no less, and no more anonymous than any other CryptoNote coin, Boolberry, Monero, Bytecoin.

Also ring signatures are not the same as stealth addresses, but they are VERY similar. It's like a stealth address collective, that the receiver signs with a one time key.





I chose BBR due to its superior code base to base pNXT on.
If you actually read my post about privacyServers, your will realize that ring signatures is just one possible means for anon tech. When zerocash comes out, it will be another. Also, you never know, I just might have my own method.
What happens if I am able to combine all of them?

So, please study my post on privacyServer and tell me how this is similar in ANY way to other cryptonotes. In ANY way??

James

Okay read.

So you push all the transactions through these centralized nodes; but its utilizing ring signatures, and possibly in the future other algorithms as well. It is a new concept I'll give you that, combining them that is, but it is a trusted system.

If you can figure a way to make the privacyServers trustless then this will be on par with the leading two anonymous coins. XCurrency, CloakCoin. They have trustless decentralized anon methods; they also have transactions speeds sub 5 minutes for fully washed funds.

Keep innovating man I'm sure you can solve these issues, I'm just bringing them to light.
jl777
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July 22, 2014, 07:56:52 PM
 #1864

Now I realize why someone asked me to PM them when I was going offline
Seems there is some sort of correlation between my being around to post and the price
So if I want to get more cheap BTCD, I just have to stay offline for 2 days. Imagine the panic selling Smiley

Its a nice sunny day, making morning coffee so today if all goes well, some progress with primitive order matching. The reason this is so important and frontloaded on the debugging schedule is that once there is a realtime (or even 1 minute blocktime) market built in, then we can do all sorts of things.

For example, an automatic BTCD -> BTC payment bridge. This way BTCD will effectively be accepted by all merchants that accept BTC. On the privacy side, it would allow BTCD -> pNXT via market trade -> dest pNXT via cryptonote tx -> market trade to BTCD. Not the most elegant solution, but at least some level of privacy.

So, should I go offline for 48 hours and see what happens to the price?

James

http://www.digitalcatallaxy.com/report2015.html
100+ page annual report for SuperNET
jl777
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July 22, 2014, 07:59:14 PM
 #1865

Btw, this is how easy this 'CryptoNote' protocol is to implement.

https://cryptonotestarter.org/

Ring signatures bloat the blockchain insanely as well. Monero's is almost 1 gigabyte now and it was 100 megabytes 20 days ago.

However, I will give it to the developer; you perfected the initial distribution and PoW.

This coin will trump Monero (100%) because of that, plus since the network is supported by ASICS, the speeds will be faster.

But, again, this coin is no less, and no more anonymous than any other CryptoNote coin, Boolberry, Monero, Bytecoin.

Also ring signatures are not the same as stealth addresses, but they are VERY similar. It's like a stealth address collective, that the receiver signs with a one time key.





I chose BBR due to its superior code base to base pNXT on.
If you actually read my post about privacyServers, your will realize that ring signatures is just one possible means for anon tech. When zerocash comes out, it will be another. Also, you never know, I just might have my own method.
What happens if I am able to combine all of them?

So, please study my post on privacyServer and tell me how this is similar in ANY way to other cryptonotes. In ANY way??

James

Okay read.

So you push all the transactions through these centralized nodes; but its utilizing ring signatures, and possibly in the future other algorithms as well. It is a new concept I'll give you that, combining them that is, but it is a trusted system.

If you can figure a way to make the privacyServers trustless then this will be on par with the leading two anonymous coins. XCurrency, CloakCoin. They have trustless decentralized anon methods; they also have transactions speeds sub 5 minutes for fully washed funds.

I am confused. How can privacyServers be centralized, when anybody can set one up?
I thought that was sort of the definition of decentralization. Nobody controls who is allowed to setup a privacyServer and anybody can download source, recompile and run one.

So, yes, you do have to trust ONE privacyServer and if you cant find a vendor you trust, then can you trust yourself? If you cant trust yourself, then I think you have some serious trust issues Smiley

James

http://www.digitalcatallaxy.com/report2015.html
100+ page annual report for SuperNET
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July 22, 2014, 08:01:18 PM
 #1866

Btw, this is how easy this 'CryptoNote' protocol is to implement.

https://cryptonotestarter.org/

Ring signatures bloat the blockchain insanely as well. Monero's is almost 1 gigabyte now and it was 100 megabytes 20 days ago.

However, I will give it to the developer; you perfected the initial distribution and PoW.

This coin will trump Monero (100%) because of that, plus since the network is supported by ASICS, the speeds will be faster.

But, again, this coin is no less, and no more anonymous than any other CryptoNote coin, Boolberry, Monero, Bytecoin.

Also ring signatures are not the same as stealth addresses, but they are VERY similar. It's like a stealth address collective, that the receiver signs with a one time key.





I chose BBR due to its superior code base to base pNXT on.
If you actually read my post about privacyServers, your will realize that ring signatures is just one possible means for anon tech. When zerocash comes out, it will be another. Also, you never know, I just might have my own method.
What happens if I am able to combine all of them?

So, please study my post on privacyServer and tell me how this is similar in ANY way to other cryptonotes. In ANY way??

James

Okay read.

So you push all the transactions through these centralized nodes; but its utilizing ring signatures, and possibly in the future other algorithms as well. It is a new concept I'll give you that, combining them that is, but it is a trusted system.

If you can figure a way to make the privacyServers trustless then this will be on par with the leading two anonymous coins. XCurrency, CloakCoin. They have trustless decentralized anon methods; they also have transactions speeds sub 5 minutes for fully washed funds.

I am confused. How can privacyServers be centralized, when anybody can set one up?
I thought that was sort of the definition of decentralization. Nobody controls who is allowed to setup a privacyServer and anybody can download source, recompile and run one.

So, yes, you do have to trust ONE privacyServer and if you cant find a vendor you trust, then can you trust yourself? If you cant trust yourself, then I think you have some serious trust issues Smiley

James

Lol you seem like a cool dude. I guess the problem lies in the fact that you have to opt in to run a server, so potential attackers could set then up. Truly Trustless would mean that everyone and anyone is automatically a privacyServer.
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July 22, 2014, 08:02:45 PM
 #1867

So, should I go offline for 48 hours and see what happens to the price?

James

DO IT! Enjoy some time off let us see what happens... my buys are set lol!

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jl777
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July 22, 2014, 08:04:50 PM
 #1868

Btw, this is how easy this 'CryptoNote' protocol is to implement.

https://cryptonotestarter.org/

Ring signatures bloat the blockchain insanely as well. Monero's is almost 1 gigabyte now and it was 100 megabytes 20 days ago.

However, I will give it to the developer; you perfected the initial distribution and PoW.

This coin will trump Monero (100%) because of that, plus since the network is supported by ASICS, the speeds will be faster.

But, again, this coin is no less, and no more anonymous than any other CryptoNote coin, Boolberry, Monero, Bytecoin.

Also ring signatures are not the same as stealth addresses, but they are VERY similar. It's like a stealth address collective, that the receiver signs with a one time key.





I chose BBR due to its superior code base to base pNXT on.
If you actually read my post about privacyServers, your will realize that ring signatures is just one possible means for anon tech. When zerocash comes out, it will be another. Also, you never know, I just might have my own method.
What happens if I am able to combine all of them?

So, please study my post on privacyServer and tell me how this is similar in ANY way to other cryptonotes. In ANY way??

James

Okay read.

So you push all the transactions through these centralized nodes; but its utilizing ring signatures, and possibly in the future other algorithms as well. It is a new concept I'll give you that, combining them that is, but it is a trusted system.

If you can figure a way to make the privacyServers trustless then this will be on par with the leading two anonymous coins. XCurrency, CloakCoin. They have trustless decentralized anon methods; they also have transactions speeds sub 5 minutes for fully washed funds.

I am confused. How can privacyServers be centralized, when anybody can set one up?
I thought that was sort of the definition of decentralization. Nobody controls who is allowed to setup a privacyServer and anybody can download source, recompile and run one.

So, yes, you do have to trust ONE privacyServer and if you cant find a vendor you trust, then can you trust yourself? If you cant trust yourself, then I think you have some serious trust issues Smiley

James

Lol you seem like a cool dude.
I am just a simple C programmer
I dont like stuff that is complicated that I cant understand
I make mistakes, but I work hard until I cant find anymore mistakes
So, I am definitely open to feedback. I am sure whatever I do can be improved on. This I know because everyday I seem to have a lot of improving to do to my code!

Also, I dont care who has the right answer. If it is the right answer, I use it.

James

http://www.digitalcatallaxy.com/report2015.html
100+ page annual report for SuperNET
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July 22, 2014, 08:05:53 PM
 #1869

Why are peeps dumping? I am holding strong..wish I had more btc to buy some zzzzzzzzzzz


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damiano
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July 22, 2014, 08:07:35 PM
 #1870

Why are peeps dumping? I am holding strong..wish I had more btc to buy some zzzzzzzzzzz

No one dumped.  

There was a push downwards to have orders in the 116k-118k filled.

We will probably burst into 130k soon.
jl777
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July 22, 2014, 08:09:44 PM
 #1871

Btw, this is how easy this 'CryptoNote' protocol is to implement.

https://cryptonotestarter.org/

Ring signatures bloat the blockchain insanely as well. Monero's is almost 1 gigabyte now and it was 100 megabytes 20 days ago.

However, I will give it to the developer; you perfected the initial distribution and PoW.

This coin will trump Monero (100%) because of that, plus since the network is supported by ASICS, the speeds will be faster.

But, again, this coin is no less, and no more anonymous than any other CryptoNote coin, Boolberry, Monero, Bytecoin.

Also ring signatures are not the same as stealth addresses, but they are VERY similar. It's like a stealth address collective, that the receiver signs with a one time key.





I chose BBR due to its superior code base to base pNXT on.
If you actually read my post about privacyServers, your will realize that ring signatures is just one possible means for anon tech. When zerocash comes out, it will be another. Also, you never know, I just might have my own method.
What happens if I am able to combine all of them?

So, please study my post on privacyServer and tell me how this is similar in ANY way to other cryptonotes. In ANY way??

James

Okay read.

So you push all the transactions through these centralized nodes; but its utilizing ring signatures, and possibly in the future other algorithms as well. It is a new concept I'll give you that, combining them that is, but it is a trusted system.

If you can figure a way to make the privacyServers trustless then this will be on par with the leading two anonymous coins. XCurrency, CloakCoin. They have trustless decentralized anon methods; they also have transactions speeds sub 5 minutes for fully washed funds.

I am confused. How can privacyServers be centralized, when anybody can set one up?
I thought that was sort of the definition of decentralization. Nobody controls who is allowed to setup a privacyServer and anybody can download source, recompile and run one.

So, yes, you do have to trust ONE privacyServer and if you cant find a vendor you trust, then can you trust yourself? If you cant trust yourself, then I think you have some serious trust issues Smiley

James

Lol you seem like a cool dude. I guess the problem lies in the fact that you have to opt in to run a server, so potential attackers could set then up. Truly Trustless would mean that everyone and anyone is automatically a privacyServer.
That would just be a matter of setting the default install to make each node a privacyServer.
The problem is that not all nodes have decent bandwidth and the performance will suffer

OK, so lets say we have these attackers. What is the attack vector? deanonimization using info about who you are sending messages to? For that an additional onion layer would suffice, wouldnt it? They would know the intermediary you send it to, but just pick random intermediaries so there is no useful information gleaned

I will need to think carefully about the private acct #s. Maybe there is a way to hide it from your privacyServer. If I can do that, then there really is nothing you are trusting the privacyServer with other than routing packets.

http://www.digitalcatallaxy.com/report2015.html
100+ page annual report for SuperNET
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July 22, 2014, 08:09:56 PM
 #1872

Why are peeps dumping? I am holding strong..wish I had more btc to buy some zzzzzzzzzzz

No one dumped.  

There was a push downwards to have orders in the 116k-118k filled.

We will probably burst into 130k soon.

you mean 300k Cheesy
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July 22, 2014, 08:13:59 PM
 #1873

Why are peeps dumping? I am holding strong..wish I had more btc to buy some zzzzzzzzzzz

No one dumped.  

There was a push downwards to have orders in the 116k-118k filled.

We will probably burst into 130k soon.

you mean 300k Cheesy


yeah typo Sad

300k

lol
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July 22, 2014, 08:14:21 PM
 #1874

Why are peeps dumping? I am holding strong..wish I had more btc to buy some zzzzzzzzzzz

No one dumped.  

There was a push downwards to have orders in the 116k-118k filled.

We will probably burst into 130k soon.

you mean 300k Cheesy

I am seeing it go down before my eyes..very easy to panic at this point but I don't wanna sell ..


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July 22, 2014, 08:17:18 PM
 #1875

Btw, this is how easy this 'CryptoNote' protocol is to implement.

https://cryptonotestarter.org/

Ring signatures bloat the blockchain insanely as well. Monero's is almost 1 gigabyte now and it was 100 megabytes 20 days ago.

However, I will give it to the developer; you perfected the initial distribution and PoW.

This coin will trump Monero (100%) because of that, plus since the network is supported by ASICS, the speeds will be faster.

But, again, this coin is no less, and no more anonymous than any other CryptoNote coin, Boolberry, Monero, Bytecoin.

Also ring signatures are not the same as stealth addresses, but they are VERY similar. It's like a stealth address collective, that the receiver signs with a one time key.





I chose BBR due to its superior code base to base pNXT on.
If you actually read my post about privacyServers, your will realize that ring signatures is just one possible means for anon tech. When zerocash comes out, it will be another. Also, you never know, I just might have my own method.
What happens if I am able to combine all of them?

So, please study my post on privacyServer and tell me how this is similar in ANY way to other cryptonotes. In ANY way??

James

Okay read.

So you push all the transactions through these centralized nodes; but its utilizing ring signatures, and possibly in the future other algorithms as well. It is a new concept I'll give you that, combining them that is, but it is a trusted system.

If you can figure a way to make the privacyServers trustless then this will be on par with the leading two anonymous coins. XCurrency, CloakCoin. They have trustless decentralized anon methods; they also have transactions speeds sub 5 minutes for fully washed funds.

I am confused. How can privacyServers be centralized, when anybody can set one up?
I thought that was sort of the definition of decentralization. Nobody controls who is allowed to setup a privacyServer and anybody can download source, recompile and run one.

So, yes, you do have to trust ONE privacyServer and if you cant find a vendor you trust, then can you trust yourself? If you cant trust yourself, then I think you have some serious trust issues Smiley

James

Lol you seem like a cool dude. I guess the problem lies in the fact that you have to opt in to run a server, so potential attackers could set then up. Truly Trustless would mean that everyone and anyone is automatically a privacyServer.
That would just be a matter of setting the default install to make each node a privacyServer.
The problem is that not all nodes have decent bandwidth and the performance will suffer

OK, so lets say we have these attackers. What is the attack vector? deanonimization using info about who you are sending messages to? For that an additional onion layer would suffice, wouldnt it? They would know the intermediary you send it to, but just pick random intermediaries so there is no useful information gleaned

I will need to think carefully about the private acct #s. Maybe there is a way to hide it from your privacyServer. If I can do that, then there really is nothing you are trusting the privacyServer with other than routing packets.

I think performance is worth the full extent of anonymous protocol. An onion layer would help as well, but if you can conceal the private keys, that'd be best.
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July 22, 2014, 08:18:47 PM
 #1876

I don't understand much the technical but I like this coin so thanks for dumping on me and I got 120 more.. Grin


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July 22, 2014, 08:20:20 PM
 #1877

When extreme privacy is needed, I have a slow but effective solution for that. If you are familiar with how bitmessage works, it is the same concept. I independently came up with the idea thinking it was so cool and it turned out it was already done, at least for emails.

So, it would be slow, but super secure. For this level of privacy, no trusting of anything other than the BTCD network routes packets.

One thing that is important to note. I cannot figure out a one size fits all method for privacy. There a blockchain bloat issues, response time issues and information sensitivity issues. Sort of a three dimensional matrix of tradeoffs. So, any single privacy algo is surely going to fail in some areas, eg. too slow or not secure enough.

Well, maybe someone a lot smarter than me can figure a universal solution, but for me, I just come up with the likely most popular use cases and make sure there is a privacy level that works for that use case and then combine them

I am no ivory tower guy. I like practical solutions, but I also like to use fancy magical algos with cool properties

James

http://www.digitalcatallaxy.com/report2015.html
100+ page annual report for SuperNET
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July 22, 2014, 08:24:48 PM
 #1878

I think performance is worth the full extent of anonymous protocol. An onion layer would help as well, but if you can conceal the private keys, that'd be best.
The "bitmessage" approach conceals all.
Each node would have a superprivate account that only it knows about. All tx from that account are via global broadcast, so there is no path analysis possible for the packet, since all nodes will get the packet.
Of course this method still needs a way to teleport the funds, but zeroknowledge proofs could do that, so either I wait for zerocash or if I have everything else done and they are not out, I can start experimenting with libsnark

As things come together, clearly the easier to implement stuff will be done first. I like incremental improvements, so BTCD will get better as time passes. I really dont understand litecoin. They could have been adding features all these years, but nope, always stays the same.

James

http://www.digitalcatallaxy.com/report2015.html
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July 22, 2014, 08:26:06 PM
 #1879

I think the recent dump is due to nxt multipool who mined a lot of btcd.
This will only be happen once if I am right.
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July 22, 2014, 08:28:43 PM
 #1880

I think performance is worth the full extent of anonymous protocol. An onion layer would help as well, but if you can conceal the private keys, that'd be best.
Wait!
Are you thinking the privacyServer has the private keys for your account??
Of course not!
The privacyServer has knowledge of your account number, that I think is a serious enough trust issue. No way that any node keeps another's private keys. Then it really is not a separate node as it controls that acct.

I am trying to minimize information leakage across the entire spectrum. One of the biggest leaks is that the privacyServer knows your private account number (not passwords) and also who you are sending messages to. The latter is solved by an additional onion layer. The former no solution yet, but not sure where it ranks in priority for solving

James

http://www.digitalcatallaxy.com/report2015.html
100+ page annual report for SuperNET
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