[ANN][XCN] Cryptonite | 1st mini-blockchain coin | M7 PoW | No Premine

[beitris.dwlul]

I guess something's not right. Blocks are being generated much too fast.

[myagui]

I guess something's not right. Blocks are being generated much too fast.

Doesn't look like there is any abnormal block generation speed for the last 24 hours. A few blocks in short succession are not particularly odd, and more so when we consider that 1GH is concentrating most of the nethash. Variance is most pronounced in the current scenario.

~ Myagui

[e6ug]

wallet started crashing and now wont work at all.  error message says exe has stopped working 

[bybitcoin]

Anonymity is a double edged sword: it may become a saver for people in some jurisdictions, but a stopping obstacle in other jurisdictions (big businesses dealing with legal enforcements).
I also prefer it to be optional.

[e6ug]

Having problems with wallet crashing, I have done the qt and dll updates, deleted conf file all except wallet dat. Am I missing something?

i am also having problems. did you get this fixed?

[iCEBREAKER]

I guess something's not right. Blocks are being generated much too fast.

The speed of the network is increasing faster than the difficulty can adjust!   

[bitfreak!]

Having problems with wallet crashing, I have done the qt and dll updates, deleted conf file all except wallet dat. Am I missing something?

i am also having problems. did you get this fixed?

It may not work on some Windows machines, not sure why. If you already managed to start it once before then your blockchain or your wallet might be corrupt. Try running -resync or delete the data folder and start fresh. Always make sure to backup your wallet.

[darkota]

Anoncoin is just about to release ZC. Less then a month til it's on testnet. Howoever, the proofs are HUGE so the bloat is big. Would be nice if it could be on a minichain.

Although the quality of anc's zerocoin remains to be seen, I agree strongly with the suggestion that coins need to start moving in the direction of consolidating and working to make longer term projects. With dozens of new coins arriving every day the only ones that will last are the ones that can eat other coins, or work with them.

The ideal coin right now in my opinion a mix of xcn with an anonymous coin like anc and a human mined coin like huc.

The first coin to be truly human mined will jump ahead of all other coins quickly. HUC is the closest to that.
Anonymity is extremely important to some people in some places but for a coin to succeed long term the anonymity must be optional. Most people will reject mandatory anonymity.

Human mining coin is a fail. The average person doesnt have time to waste literally, mining some coin instead of just buying a gpu/cpu and having that mine instead....

Anonymity is very important. I wish it got added to this coin.

[teknohog]

Anonymity is a double edged sword: it may become a saver for people in some jurisdictions, but a stopping obstacle in other jurisdictions (big businesses dealing with legal enforcements).
I also prefer it to be optional.

IMHO, anonymity is like computer security in general, meaning there is no easy solution in the form of a single package. With the way most people trust the computers they don't really own and put their data on The Cloud™, it doesn't help if one of their applications does decent privacy. For example, people who use a closed-source miner with a supposedly anonymous coin take facepalming to a whole new level.

Conversely, good old Bitcoin is fine for anonymous purposes if you know what you're doing. For most people, extra anonymity is just a buzzword, something to distinguish the altcoin of the day from the coin polloi.

Besides, the success of Bitcoin is largely due to convenience -- no contracts/fees with third parties to worry about. Yet it is still not quite mainstream. Anonymity doesn't sell quite in the same way as convenience.

[unknownknown]

Human mining coin is a fail. The average person doesnt have time to waste literally, mining some coin instead of just buying a gpu/cpu and having that mine instead....

Anonymity is very important. I wish it got added to this coin.

Aside from anonymity features there is no more certain way to guarantee the success of a coin than human mining. It is a sort of holy grail, impossible to find right now, since coins are stuck at the moment on catering to miners.

The first coin that is truly human mineable / 1 man hour on a cheap computer in Lima Peru equals the same mining capacity as 1 man hour on an nsa supercomputer / will be in the top 5 in market cap weeks after it begins.

A lot of things make human mining difficult but it is probably the next truly big step in altcoins.

[heskey]

Human mining coin is a fail. The average person doesnt have time to waste literally, mining some coin instead of just buying a gpu/cpu and having that mine instead....

Anonymity is very important. I wish it got added to this coin.

Aside from anonymity features there is no more certain way to guarantee the success of a coin than human mining. It is a sort of holy grail, impossible to find right now, since coins are stuck at the moment on catering to miners.

The first coin that is truly human mineable / 1 man hour on a cheap computer in Lima Peru equals the same mining capacity as 1 man hour on an nsa supercomputer / will be in the top 5 in market cap weeks after it begins.

A lot of things make human mining difficult but it is probably the next truly big step in altcoins.

I somewhat agree. But there is always a catch to it, then for example it will be more profitable to own a bunch of low-grade computers, and people will thus collect bigger and bigger farms. Distribution is definitely one of the hardest issues to solve.

What I would like to see is a node-based reward system, like Darkcoin's masternode concept, where people are rewarded for anonymizing and fortifying the network. And it should of course also, like you pointed out, be easy and accessible for everyone.

[darkota]

Anonymity is a double edged sword: it may become a saver for people in some jurisdictions, but a stopping obstacle in other jurisdictions (big businesses dealing with legal enforcements).
I also prefer it to be optional.

IMHO, anonymity is like computer security in general, meaning there is no easy solution in the form of a single package. With the way most people trust the computers they don't really own and put their data on The Cloud™, it doesn't help if one of their applications does decent privacy. For example, people who use a closed-source miner with a supposedly anonymous coin take facepalming to a whole new level.

Conversely, good old Bitcoin is fine for anonymous purposes if you know what you're doing. For most people, extra anonymity is just a buzzword, something to distinguish the altcoin of the day from the coin polloi.

Besides, the success of Bitcoin is largely due to convenience -- no contracts/fees with third parties to worry about. Yet it is still not quite mainstream. Anonymity doesn't sell quite in the same way as convenience.

"Good old Bitcoin" is only good if you're extremely careful about hiding your identity(creating new addresses for every transaction, not posting your address on forums, website, not resuing addresses etc)...Most people aren't so it isn't that anonymous for them.  

[unknownknown]

I somewhat agree. But there is always a catch to it, then for example it will be more profitable to own a bunch of low-grade computers, and people will thus collect bigger and bigger farms. Distribution is definitely one of the hardest issues to solve.

What I would like to see is a node-based reward system, like Darkcoin's masternode concept, where people are rewarded for anonymizing and fortifying the network. And it should of course also, like you pointed out, be easy and accessible for everyone.

I'm sorry it wasn't clear what is meant by human mineable.

It means a person performs a task on the computer that cannot be performed by bots. It would be cutting the edge of artificial intelligence to keep the coin a step ahead of automators.

1 person sits at a computer.

It could be a 15 thousand dollar computer in Seattle, a 600 rupee used tablet in Delhi, a smartphone perhaps.

They mine manually for x hours and reliably get about y coins. Some people will get y +10%. Some will get y minus 10%. But they all get roughly the same regardless what they can afford.

Will you and I mine these coins? Of course not. The people will be making like 0.1 usd per day. Grunt work.

Will it be a successful algorithm? It is about 100% sure that the first truly human mineable coin will get more publicity than any altcoin since bitcoin. Equally obvious the algorithm will progress similarly to bitcoin. First local game currencies like huc. Next a coin with more progressive intent but still primitive. Then a coin like primecoin that uses the labor, human in this case, more productively then simply running in circles.

The challenge is to develop the coin in a way that stays ahead of automators and to anticipate the effect the coin might eventually have on local economies, i.e., anticipate problems that might arise.

A person could then ask what step would folllow that in altcoins.

[smooth]

The challenge is to develop the coin in a way that stays ahead of automators and to anticipate the effect the coin might eventually have on local economies, i.e., anticipate problems that might arise.

I think you'd have to do something like Amazon Mechanical Turk where people submit tasks and have to pay for them, and then the system allows, but does not require, humans rather than bots to preform the tasks. People won't pay human-labor prices for tasks that can be automated, they will simply automate them, so such a market naturally attracts tasks that can't be automated.

Turning that into a mining algorithm is another matter. I can sort of think of ways that could work, but I'd have to take some time to work through the details, and I don't have time for it right now. Feel free to PM me to exchange ideas if you are working on this seriously.

[bitfreak!]

I don't really think it's possible to create a human mineable coin. The problem is you need a PoW algorithm which is hard for bots to solve but easy for humans to solve, but it also needs to be easy for computers to verify the solution. There is no easy way to meet those requirements. The problem space would have to be so huge that a bot wont have any chance at finding a solution by randomly searching for one, but it should be solvable by applying creativity and logic. For example when a programmer is faced with a problem he must apply creativity and logic to write an algorithm which can solve the problem. If he were to randomly try every possible algorithm he would never find a solution, but by applying human reasoning skills he is able to write an algorithm capable of solving the problem. That is the sort of PoW problem required to make a human mineable coin.

[suchnekky]

I don't really think it's possible to create a human mineable coin. The problem is you need a PoW algorithm which is hard for bots to solve but easy for humans to solve, but it also needs to be easy for computers to verify the solution. There is no easy way to meet those requirements. The problem space would have to be so huge that a bot wont have any chance at finding a solution by randomly searching for one, but it should be solvable by applying creativity and logic. For example when a programmer is faced with a problem he must apply creativity and logic to write an algorithm which can solve the problem. If he were to randomly try every possible algorithm he would never find a solution, but by applying human reasoning skills he is able to write an algorithm capable of solving the problem. That is the sort of PoW problem required to make a human mineable coin.

what about a captcha type thing? thats easy for humans to solve

[pallas]

I don't really think it's possible to create a human mineable coin. The problem is you need a PoW algorithm which is hard for bots to solve but easy for humans to solve, but it also needs to be easy for computers to verify the solution. There is no easy way to meet those requirements. The problem space would have to be so huge that a bot wont have any chance at finding a solution by randomly searching for one, but it should be solvable by applying creativity and logic. For example when a programmer is faced with a problem he must apply creativity and logic to write an algorithm which can solve the problem. If he were to randomly try every possible algorithm he would never find a solution, but by applying human reasoning skills he is able to write an algorithm capable of solving the problem. That is the sort of PoW problem required to make a human mineable coin.

what about a captcha type thing? thats easy for humans to solve

Captcoin

[bitfreak!]

I don't really think it's possible to create a human mineable coin. The problem is you need a PoW algorithm which is hard for bots to solve but easy for humans to solve, but it also needs to be easy for computers to verify the solution. There is no easy way to meet those requirements. The problem space would have to be so huge that a bot wont have any chance at finding a solution by randomly searching for one, but it should be solvable by applying creativity and logic. For example when a programmer is faced with a problem he must apply creativity and logic to write an algorithm which can solve the problem. If he were to randomly try every possible algorithm he would never find a solution, but by applying human reasoning skills he is able to write an algorithm capable of solving the problem. That is the sort of PoW problem required to make a human mineable coin.

what about a captcha type thing? thats easy for humans to solve

The solution cannot be quickly verified by computers unless the solution is already known, but the point of a PoW algorithm is that no one knows the solution until some one finds a solution. The example I gave about the programmer writing an algorithm is a better approach because the solution can be easily verified by a computer, it just needs to run the algorithm and make sure it produces the correct output. The other problem with a captcha approach is that you need a way to decide where the captcha images come from, which requires centralization.

[ocminer]

Would be cool if anyone would share some love @ suprnova .. Now that I got the Stratum up no one is mining 

As a lack of a AMD GPU miner i cannot mine myself (with gpu) .. I would if I could..

[unknownknown]

The challenge is to develop the coin in a way that stays ahead of automators and to anticipate the effect the coin might eventually have on local economies, i.e., anticipate problems that might arise.

I think you'd have to do something like Amazon Mechanical Turk where people submit tasks and have to pay for them, and then the system allows, but does not require, humans rather than bots to preform the tasks. People won't pay human-labor prices for tasks that can be automated, they will simply automate them, so such a market naturally attracts tasks that can't be automated.

Turning that into a mining algorithm is another matter. I can sort of think of ways that could work, but I'd have to take some time to work through the details, and I don't have time for it right now. Feel free to PM me to exchange ideas if you are working on this seriously.

Looked at the wiki for Amazon Mechanical Turk and am fascinated by it enough to look into it more later.

I am not a dev nor anything else but just an observer who thinks it is obvious that human mining is the next big step.

Also my resources are near zero in every category so although I support the concept fully someone with abilities and resources will have to do it. I think it is good to discuss this kind of thing publicly since maybe someone else will read and get a useful idea but I mention it here because bitfreak or some other dev might do something with it. If you and bitfreak discussed the issue some good might result.

Although I am not a dev or coin person etc I do know enough of other things to respect the potential of 'human mining' and also to understand in some way the long term impact of that step once it is taken. It certainly goes past bitcoin.