[ANN] SpreadCoin | True Decentralization (No Pools) | Testing New Masternodes

[defunctec]

And now let's make a more difficult example:

An early adopter whale is a little wiser and has 1 Million SPR in his control. (which already the distribution shows is impossible, but let's just continue.)

So what he does is, he creates 1000 MNs with 1000 SPR each. He's a darkcoiner gone Spreadcoin obviously.

Now if I am a newcomer, what can I do to enter the game?

Well, obviously I just have to invest 1001 or more SPR to take over one of the whales seats.

All other newcomers can do the same: they just have to invest just 1 SPR more than ANY SEAT they desire to overtake, and they can reduce any lower ranks by one!
Always kicking the last one out of the game, and reducing everyone below them 1 rank.

----

Probably the best way how you can setup your mutiple nodes will be to SPREAD them over multiple ranks.

Have one of them be very expensive, e.g. 5000 SPR, the next one 4500 SPR, then 4000 SPR, 3500 SPR, etc...
But still, all this will just server for you to have a little bit more security against losing your seat.
But you will NEVER be able to restrict newcomers from entering the market, and this is brilliant.

It is f*&%#@g brilliant!

Or we are bat shit crazy? Only the implementation and time will tell 

You're nuts.

With rising prices and dwindling supply that 1 extra SPR is going to cost you ever more dearly. Dynamic pricing is going to restrict newcomers entering the market, that's all it's going to achieve - the opposite of your stated goal of decentralisation.

Regular folk will take one look at how Spread's dynamic MN pricing favours the rich and walk away laughing. After all the hard work done so far to get the only truly decentralised PoW currency up and running you want to throw it away by handing half the block reward to the whales on a plate.

Guess what, you can cut a pretty good deal with a provider if you want to rent 100 VPS instances...

It's a vicious feedback loop for the small guy and the small guy is going to take his money elsewhere.

Still waiting for an answer to, "what advantages does this bring?" that doesn't involve nebulous blather about free markets...

Introducing another mechanism for the rich to profit at the expense of the poor is not a cunning plan for Spread. But if I haven't convinced anyone yet I'm never going to...

Man, like i said earlier Darkcoin with a $9billion market cap would make a masternode cost $300,000! That's a gerantee. This is the barrier to entry to end all barriers to entry!

You cannot guarantee what a masternode would cost if spreadcoin had the same market cap. You have no idea, only speculations. But i can 100% say that if darkcoin had a $9bil cap, a masternode would cost $300,000.

And again, it all comes down to what the max MN amount is. I'd have problems if it was set to 1000 for example. I would be more in your camp, but at 3-4000 MN's i don't see a group of individuals controlling enough coin supply to corner the market, its impossible.(Unless the government came in with $10billion and just made everyone here(including MrSpread) a millionaire).  

[antonio8]

So any idea about how much coins per MN? Just a guesstimate.

[defunctec]

So any idea about how much coins per MN? Just a guesstimate.

This is the thing... No one knows....


ooooOOOOOooooo

Edit: The question is, what's the maximum amount of MN's allowed?

[georgem]

So any idea about how much coins per MN? Just a guesstimate.

This is the thing... No one knows....


ooooOOOOOooooo

Only satoshi knows.... aaaAAAAAAAAaaaaaa!

[Tiger_BTC]

Running both DRK MN and SPR MN on the same VPS is really exiting.
Profit doubles with the same renting VPS cost. 

[defunctec]

Thinking on more.

The higher the marketcap of spreadcoin you would think the higher barrier to entry into spreadnodes.

Say SPR marketcap is $1,000,000,000 - 10,000,000 SPR supply - 1 SPR = $100

The demand for tiny transactions like 0.005($0.50) will be huge. We will need masternodes that have like 0.01spr in them to mix only 0.001 denominations.

We will also need MN's that have hundreds of SPR for larger transactions.

But the masternode network will have to select a node which can handle the transaction size and pay accordingly.

Say you(as a MN operator) only want to denominate 0.001 transactions, you only receive a tiny mining fee because of the small transaction, but the masternode only costs you 0.1SPR($10).

If you store more coins in a wallet and a big fat whale wants to denominate/send a large amount of coins he pays the large node relative to the transaction size (Much more than the 0.001 transaction MN would get paid).

So i can see it being very easy for new people to enter the market for as little as $10 if the market cap was $1 bil.
Depending how many decimal places a masternode can denominate down to, it could theoretically cost penny's to operate a MN!

This will create a huge market place of price discovery as people try to figure out the maximum amount of coins to leave in a wallet! For example, i leave 5spr in a MN but only denominate/process 0.001 transactions. If the MN is profitable enough to justify having 6spr in their, then someone will do it and boot me off. Taking coins out of the system, making my coins more valuable, by the way. But if it become's unprofitable for me to hold 6 coins in one MN to only denominate 0.001 transactions i will withdraw 1-2spr to become more profitable elsewhere, but by me doing this i reduce the barrier to entry.

Does that make sense to anybody? Because i know how bad i am at dicribing something  

[MyFarm]

It seems some Darkcoiners are upset that we're badmouthing them.  I haven't seen it in this thread, but I have pretty thick skin and sometimes miss such things.  If you have been, please stop, there's no need to and doesn't help the cause.  This of course doesn't mean you can't discuss what you feel Darkcoin is doing wrong or SPR can do better/different.

Examples:

"Darkcoin is a shitcoin" - Bad
"Darkcoiners are idiots" - Bad
"Due to reference nodes, Darkcoin is centralized.  Spreadcoin can improve upon that."  - Good
"MyFarm is one sexy bitch" - Good

[Jeff8247]

I'm curious how many Darkcoin masternode owners have realized that they will be able to run a Spreadcoin masternode on the same VPS instance and increase their monthly ROI because of it.  The smart ones are starting to stock up on SPR now at cheap prices.  It makes little sense not to run both.

With that said, you SPR investors that haven't bought 1000 DRK?  It's not a bad idea at these prices IMO.

Bingo! That's a big reason why I built a position in SPR a couple weeks back - I'm sure others will realize sooner than later ;-)

This is why i bought SPR yesterday. The number 1 reason.

[defunctec]

It seems some Darkcoiners are upset that we're badmouthing them.  I haven't seen it in this thread, but I have pretty thick skin and sometimes miss such things.  If you have been, please stop, there's no need to and doesn't help the cause.  This of course doesn't mean you can't discuss what you feel Darkcoin is doing wrong or SPR can do better/different.

Examples:

"Darkcoin is a shitcoin" - Bad
"Darkcoiners are idiots" - Bad
"Due to reference nodes, Darkcoin is centralized.  Spreadcoin can improve upon that."  - Good
"MyFarm is one sexy bitch" - Good

I haven't seen this personally.

[Jesse Livermore]

It seems some Darkcoiners are upset that we're badmouthing them.  I haven't seen it in this thread, but I have pretty thick skin and sometimes miss such things.  If you have been, please stop, there's no need to and doesn't help the cause.  This of course doesn't mean you can't discuss what you feel Darkcoin is doing wrong or SPR can do better/different.

Examples:

"Darkcoin is a shitcoin" - Bad
"Darkcoiners are idiots" - Bad
"Due to reference nodes, Darkcoin is centralized.  Spreadcoin can improve upon that."  - Good
"MyFarm is one sexy bitch" - Good

What you did yesterday at .0005 was pretty fn sexy.

[georgem]

It seems some Darkcoiners are upset that we're badmouthing them.  I haven't seen it in this thread, but I have pretty thick skin and sometimes miss such things.  If you have been, please stop, there's no need to and doesn't help the cause.  This of course doesn't mean you can't discuss what you feel Darkcoin is doing wrong or SPR can do better/different.

Examples:

"Darkcoin is a shitcoin" - Bad
"Darkcoiners are idiots" - Bad
"Due to reference nodes, Darkcoin is centralized.  Spreadcoin can improve upon that."  - Good
"MyFarm is one sexy bitch" - Good

I haven't seen this personally.

Me neither, I just checked the last few pages, and the only "out of line" I saw (although I find it harmless) came from:

You're nuts.

Now you guys are being daft. This is silly.

I think we are "flying over the target" as they say...

[Tiger_BTC]

Is that safe when you put your coin at the VPS to set up a MN? 

[e1ghtSpace]

Hey darkcoin masternode owners, is your wallet the gui or the daemon?

[true-asset]

Mr Spread: Is the Spreadcoin implementation of pool elimination technology the same as 2P-PoW (Two Phase Proof of Work), as described here: http://hackingdistributed.com/2014/06/18/how-to-disincentivize-large-bitcoin-mining-pools/

If the two methods are difference, could you outline what the differences are?

Thanks for your time.

[GilAlexander]

Hey darkcoin masternode owners, is your wallet the gui or the daemon?

The daemon.

Is that safe when you put your coin at the VPS to set up a MN?  

We have cold\hot setup where coins are stored locally and mn is activated using them from desktop.

[thelonecrouton]

Thinking on more.

The higher the marketcap of spreadcoin you would think the higher barrier to entry into spreadnodes.

Say SPR marketcap is $1,000,000,000 - 10,000,000 SPR supply - 1 SPR = $100

The demand for tiny transactions like 0.005($0.50) will be huge. We will need masternodes that have like 0.01spr in them to mix only 0.001 denominations.

We will also need MN's that have hundreds of SPR for larger transactions.

But the masternode network will have to select a node which can handle the transaction size and pay accordingly.

Say you(as a MN operator) only want to denominate 0.001 transactions, you only receive a tiny mining fee because of the small transaction, but the masternode only costs you 0.1SPR($10).

If you store more coins in a wallet and a big fat whale wants to denominate/send a large amount of coins he pays the large node relative to the transaction size (Much more than the 0.001 transaction MN would get paid).

So i can see it being very easy for new people to enter the market for as little as $10 if the market cap was $1 bil.
Depending how many decimal places a masternode can denominate down to, it could theoretically cost penny's to operate a MN!

This will create a huge market place of price discovery as people try to figure out the maximum amount of coins to leave in a wallet! For example, i leave 5spr in a MN but only denominate/process 0.001 transactions. If the MN is profitable enough to justify having 6spr in their, then someone will do it and boot me off. Taking coins out of the system, making my coins more valuable, by the way. But if it become's unprofitable for me to hold 6 coins in one MN to only denominate 0.001 transactions i will withdraw 1-2spr to become more profitable elsewhere, but by me doing this i reduce the barrier to entry.

Does that make sense to anybody? Because i know how bad i am at dicribing something  

That's not how Masternodes work.

Your collateral does not ever get mixed/used, it sits safely in your own wallet, preferably not even online. Well actually it lives on the distributed blockchain and your wallet is just the gateway to it, but still. Whatever amount of collateral is required, it has nothing to do with mixing.

Masternodes just co-ordinate and sign transactions for Darksend, and will act as consensus locks for InstantX transactions.

[Tiger_BTC]

Mr Spread: Is the Spreadcoin implementation of pool elimination technology the same as 2P-PoW (Two Phase Proof of Work), as described here: http://hackingdistributed.com/2014/06/18/how-to-disincentivize-large-bitcoin-mining-pools/

If the two methods are difference, could you outline what the differences are?

Thanks for your time.

I also want to know that.

[e1ghtSpace]

Mr Spread: Is the Spreadcoin implementation of pool elimination technology the same as 2P-PoW (Two Phase Proof of Work), as described here: http://hackingdistributed.com/2014/06/18/how-to-disincentivize-large-bitcoin-mining-pools/

If the two methods are difference, could you outline what the differences are?

Thanks for your time.

I also want to know that.

I asked the same question a while ago and Mr. Spread answered. I can't remember what the differences were. Maybe you can find the post.

Edit: Just use the search.

Is this solution a description of Spreadcoin? It it exactly the same as Spreadcoin?

http://hackingdistributed.com/2014/06/18/how-to-disincentivize-large-bitcoin-mining-pools/

It looks similar but more complicated because of the requirement of backward compatibility with existing Bitcoin miners.

[stonehedge]

It seems some Darkcoiners are upset that we're badmouthing them.  I haven't seen it in this thread, but I have pretty thick skin and sometimes miss such things.  If you have been, please stop, there's no need to and doesn't help the cause.  This of course doesn't mean you can't discuss what you feel Darkcoin is doing wrong or SPR can do better/different.

Examples:

"Darkcoin is a shitcoin" - Bad
"Darkcoiners are idiots" - Bad
"Due to reference nodes, Darkcoin is centralized.  Spreadcoin can improve upon that."  - Good
"MyFarm is one sexy bitch" - Good

Lol.  Its so petty.  I think some people don't like seeing members of the Darkcoin team posting on this thread more than anything. 

Darkcoin will have removed reference nodes in a few weeks.  They were an elegant and temporary solution to a problem that has now been solved subject to testing.

[LitcoinCollector]

I have an idea for a meme! A stock floor covered in mini SPR spermmen all screaming to buy their "share" in the MN list.

Brilliant. I thought about SPR spermmen and have a few related memes in preparation. I promise you will laugh your ass off.
I will use those spermmen (half a SPR logo, 1 logo = 2 sperm men) to show how they spread around, how they solo mine (and show how "perverted" it is when bitcoin pool mines), how they become masternodes, etc...
This is going to be so much fun.

Awesome! I can't wait! I will spread some love once you've posted

Currently and for the next few days I am working on darkcoin related cartoons for the upcoming 1 year anniversary of darkcoin.
When this is finished, I will concentrate more on spreadcoin cartoons for a while. ;-)

Well guys, I like your enthusiasm and imput in SpreadCoin.
But... In my opinion this is a bad idea. It doesn't do the logo and Spreadcoin in general justice.
It is not the image that we must create for SpreadCoin.

Meme: good
Sperm men: bad

Anyone else have an opinion on the matter?