[ANN][RSU]█ ReserveShare █ NXT AE | FAIR distribution | First POR| UNIQUE Source

[DarkhorseofNxt]

Hi, community.

I read the ann topic from which I got that you are looking for a new dev. My attention were attracted by the previously unknown to me PoR model. After reading through whitepaper I got some questions that most likely would keep me from attempt to implement something similar.

The most important question is about point VII of the Block Generation Method description. The traditional models of block creation (both PoW and PoS) assume that no node is able to create a block at will, so there could be no storm of messages over the network advertising a newly created blocks (if that happens then difficulty is adjusted to meet the target time between such advertisements), and, in a sense, the block creation method itself arbitrages who creates the block.

With PoR model described it is necessary to decide somehow who is the node 'D' (see the whitepaper). To accomplish this some kind of election should be performed over the network but the criteria for this election is completely artificial in relation to the block generation process. Also, it is fine to perform an election when the number of nodes is relatively small. But with growth of the network the number of messages to exchange to complete such election should grow exponentially, as at least 51% of all nodes should confirm to each other that they agree to make some node X the generating one. Thus, the complete idea looks unfeasible to me at least now.

Did you discuss this question somewhere in this thread?

Thank you.

Edited for clarity.

It is easy to develop ponzi scheme 。

i  dont  think it  is a  fair  distribution。it  is just a  ponzi.

but  I  am  must  come  ture  it.  it  is easy.

I am  a c++  propramer.

Tan, with all respect this is not an answer for my question.
I see that you already in, so I wish you all good luck.

The community shall decide if he is suitable for the job or not. I am only pushing this project until we find someone to take over this project. I dont want to see this project die just like that.

[tan625747]

Hi, community.

I read the ann topic from which I got that you are looking for a new dev. My attention were attracted by the previously unknown to me PoR model. After reading through whitepaper I got some questions that most likely would keep me from attempt to implement something similar.

The most important question is about point VII of the Block Generation Method description. The traditional models of block creation (both PoW and PoS) assume that no node is able to create a block at will, so there could be no storm of messages over the network advertising a newly created blocks (if that happens then difficulty is adjusted to meet the target time between such advertisements), and, in a sense, the block creation method itself arbitrages who creates the block.

With PoR model described it is necessary to decide somehow who is the node 'D' (see the whitepaper). To accomplish this some kind of election should be performed over the network but the criteria for this election is completely artificial in relation to the block generation process. Also, it is fine to perform an election when the number of nodes is relatively small. But with growth of the network the number of messages to exchange to complete such election should grow exponentially, as at least 51% of all nodes should confirm to each other that they agree to make some node X the generating one. Thus, the complete idea looks unfeasible to me at least now.

Did you discuss this question somewhere in this thread?

Thank you.

Edited for clarity.

read  now.
the idea  is very cool.
  

as at least 51% of all nodes should confirm to each other that they agree to make some node X the generating one

the Production efficiency is very low。it  Consume more network costs,more  fork is able  come  here

[bee7]

The most important question is about point VII of the Block Generation Method description. The traditional models of block creation (both PoW and PoS) assume that no node is able to create a block at will, so there could be no storm of messages over the network advertising a newly created blocks (if that happens then difficulty is adjusted to meet the target time between such advertisements), and, in a sense, the block creation method itself arbitrages who creates the block.

From the white paper:

" VII. When reserving takes place it is broadcasted to the network, so offline block generation is possible by other peers, no need for keeping the wallet online to get the return. A generated block will be signed by other peers. Example of offline block generating: A puts in reserve X amount, and the reserving is brodcast to B, C, D, E, F, G, H, J peers. D generates a block for A, that is accepted only if B, C, E, F, G, H signs the transaction as valid. "

I am not so sure if i am getting this right, but it sounds like this proposed system is a brain wallet. Isn't POS is a system where a block is created every x amount of time. NXT a block is created every 60 secs, therefore 1440 blocks per day.

Yes, this I got, that the node owning some reserve may be offline. My question is related to the selection of node 'D' in the scenario.

I never looked into NXT implementation so I can't say about it. As for PoS (I mean its initial implementation by the Peercoin and all derived/cloned coins) - there is the same way to get a network consensus as with PoW. The difference with PoW is that the result of a different function with completely different set of arguments (the unspent input value and its age) is compared to the PoS difficulty. If the condition is met then and only then the block is created and broadcast. Then, there is a place of collisions of blocks at the same height, but this resolved the same way as with PoW - by the 'longest chain'.

So, the discussion of this had no place in the thread previously, right?

[DarkhorseofNxt]

The most important question is about point VII of the Block Generation Method description. The traditional models of block creation (both PoW and PoS) assume that no node is able to create a block at will, so there could be no storm of messages over the network advertising a newly created blocks (if that happens then difficulty is adjusted to meet the target time between such advertisements), and, in a sense, the block creation method itself arbitrages who creates the block.

From the white paper:

" VII. When reserving takes place it is broadcasted to the network, so offline block generation is possible by other peers, no need for keeping the wallet online to get the return. A generated block will be signed by other peers. Example of offline block generating: A puts in reserve X amount, and the reserving is brodcast to B, C, D, E, F, G, H, J peers. D generates a block for A, that is accepted only if B, C, E, F, G, H signs the transaction as valid. "

I am not so sure if i am getting this right, but it sounds like this proposed system is a brain wallet. Isn't POS is a system where a block is created every x amount of time. NXT a block is created every 60 secs, therefore 1440 blocks per day.

Yes, this I got, that the node owning some reserve may be offline. My question is related to the selection of node 'D' in the scenario.

I never looked into NXT implementation so I can't say about it. As for PoS (I mean its initial implementation by the Peercoin and all derived/cloned coins) - there is the same way to get a network consensus as with PoW. The difference with PoW is that the result of a different function with completely different set of arguments (the unspent input value and its age) is compared to the PoS difficulty. If the condition is met then and only then the block is created and broadcast. Then, there is a place of collisions of blocks at the same height, but this resolved the same way as with PoW - by the 'longest chain'.

So, the discussion of this had no place in the thread previously, right?

I will be very honest here. For the first time, i actually went through this thread page by page from Page 1 a while ago to find an answer. There were no discussions of this ever took place. There were a few asked for the white paper and how the POR works and once it was published, that's it. Not much questions were askedvon the algo after that.

"When reserving takes place it is broadcasted to the network, so offline block generation is possible by other peers,no need for keeping the wallet online to get the return."

This is true with a brain wallet.

Example of offline block generating: A puts in reserve X amount, and the reserving is brodcast to B, C, D, E, F, G, H, J peers. D generates a block for A, that is accepted only if B, C, E, F, G, H signs the transaction as valid.

A puts in reserve x amount, so A creates a transaction (broadcast) as per my understanding. And here how does D generate a block for A? and why D and not B,C,E,F...

Can someone translate what that means?

[bee7]

@DarkhorseofNxt
check PM please

[BlackMarket]

well, now any dev interested. but where is the community?

[DarkhorseofNxt]

well, now any dev interested. but where is the community?

The community is there and quiet, watching the progress. I dont know what i am doing is right or wrong, but like i said, i will try and see where this gets. Question is, do you want to get involved?

[DarkhorseofNxt]

@DarkhorseofNxt
check PM please

Replied your pm.

[DarkhorseofNxt]

 

[meccoin4me]

well, now any dev interested. but where is the community?

The community is there and quiet, watching the progress. I dont know what i am doing is right or wrong, but like i said, i will try and see where this gets. Question is, do you want to get involved?

i am following every day , maybe we are at the beginning off something great

you never know

[Trololoh]

well, now any dev interested. but where is the community?

The community is there and quiet, watching the progress. I dont know what i am doing is right or wrong, but like i said, i will try and see where this gets. Question is, do you want to get involved?

i am following every day , maybe we are at the beginning off something great

you never know

Same here, still checking in.

[popticu]

lol. Another lesson weve learned in cryto academy.

[kora2]

well, now any dev interested. but where is the community?

The community is there and quiet, watching the progress. I dont know what i am doing is right or wrong, but like i said, i will try and see where this gets. Question is, do you want to get involved?

i am following every day , maybe we are at the beginning off something great

you never know

Same here, still checking in.

I'm here too, and support Darkhorse's attempt to reboot this community 100%. RSU had a distribution that was 'fair', the problems came later, so we can use that distribution as the seed to grow another project. I accumulated ~5% of the RSU distribution on the NXT AE, and I am happy to use ~3% to help pay for new dev's, and to widen the distribution through possible faucets & giveaways. Coin tech is up to new dev team, but I think good candidates to investigate might be Slimcoin (proof of burn) or very high PoS coin like Hyperstake. They're just suggestions, and I would support any decision by new dev.

[Stinky_Pete]

Still here. I liked the idea of PoR. Waiting to see what happens. If I had a RSU wallet I might donate something to help the new coin along. 

[SnjafSnjaf]

I am still checking in too, and i wish that i could do more to help but i can't... I can't even offer BTC as reward for new developer since i lost huge portion of my BTC's to MintPal...

[hualuola]

I am  in this community!

[DarkhorseofNxt]

Good news - I can say we do now have an interested developer that is willing to spend some time on this project.

Bad news - We cannot implement Reserve Share plans on POR because of lack of information on how the algorithm works. The only function we know is, users reserve their stake in the system for a certain period of time and receive an x amount of coins. Lack of information on other important issues such as securing nodes, block generation etc.

This is my opinion - We can start working on a basic POS wallet. Slowly we can add on the features we want to the software. The developer can make this happen without much work. But what determines who gets the tx fees? What would be considered "fair"?. We need to identify that before we can proceed. Nxt using Proof of Stake, Nem using Proof of Importance. Reserving share is equivalent to Stake in Nxt. Do we want to incorporate the inflation into this? This you guys need to let me know what is your opinion so we can move forward with the project. These are the details i need to speak to the developer before he officially gets involved with the project.

Let us know of your opinion. I think we can progress now. Those who wish to get into the project, get your tokens now in the Nxt AE. Those who wish to get out of the project, please dump your tokens.  


Edit: Kora, how does the Proof of Burn algorithm works?
 

[1MCoin]

waiting for new dev to be involved in this project!holding my RSU still!

[bee7]

waiting for new dev to be involved in this project!holding my RSU still!

As Darkhorse made an announcement I would like to introduce myself and make a few statements that I would like to fix now before we start.

I am a software engineer with long record of professional experience (almost 30 years). I am not going to prove this, though.
I started to look into crypto-currency scene in March '13, just a week before bitcoin's spiked to 200+. Since that time I did some coin related development (see the graincoin threads for detail), provided some fixes for a few coins.
I am not a marketing guy at all. I have of course the common sense, but in terms of natural language skills: I can read.

I will make an SW development of the wallet and other pieces of SW the Team designs in the future.
I will not do the PoD under any circumstances as I do not see the point for it.


As Darkhorse already said the plan is to start with a 'standard' PoS wallet. The initial supply distribution will be done using current list of holders of the RS Asset.
I will not participate in this distribution - the community will donate my RS address at its discretion.

Do you accept these terms?

[DarkhorseofNxt]

waiting for new dev to be involved in this project!holding my RSU still!

As Darkhorse made an announcement I would like to introduce myself and make a few statements that I would like to fix now before we start.

I am a software engineer with long record of professional experience (almost 30 years). I am not going to prove this, though.
I started to look into crypto-currency scene in March '13, just a week before bitcoin's spiked to 200+. Since that time I did some coin related development (see the graincoin treads for detail), provided some fixes for a few coins.
I am not a marketing guy at all. I have of course the common sense, but in terms of natural language skills: I can read.

Thank you for introducing yourself here.

I will make an SW development of the wallet and other pieces of SW the Team designs in the future.

Agreed

I will not do PoD under any circumstances as I do not see the point for it.

I don't understand what PoD here means?

As Darkhorse already said the plan is to start with a 'standard' PoS wallet. The initial supply distribution will be done using current list of holders of the RS Asset.

Agreed

I will not participate in this distribution - the community will donate my RS address at its discretion.

Agreed

Do you accept these terms?

So guys, what say you now?



bee7,

Apart from our conversation yesterday, is inflation possible to be included in this basic POS system? Say 9% per annum.