Scientific proof that God exists?

[Vod]

There's no reason to keep on answering the yammering of the ignorant. Only the ignorant keep on trying.

I'll be the first to admit I'm ignorant of the christian religion.  I was brainwashed when I was young but that was 30 years ago.  I don't know how much the christian faith has changed since then to keep pace with scientific advances.

One religion has changed - the other has been chosen.   

[BADecker]

Just a little further, now, and you will find out the love that Jesus really has for you.  

I felt it today at lunch.  The FSM filled me up and gave me energy.

I'm glad we were able to agree. 

It's okay. Even the idol worshipers recognize God a little in their idols. 

Tell me about it.  How many religions are there in the world?  Luckily, you can worship any god and the FSM will still love you.  

Now you are starting to see a little more clearly. Each individual has his or her idea about God... because God has implanted a little of Himself in all of us. Nobody sees God 100% clearly. So, even in your FSM (which is basically different from everyone else's FSM) you can see a little of God. Now that you have virtually talked yourself into believing in god, why not investigate Him a little more so that you can find out the important things about Him?

[Vod]

Now you are starting to see a little more clearly. Each individual has his or her idea about God... because God has implanted a little of Himself in all of us. Nobody sees God 100% clearly.

I agree with you 100%!  The FSM said he would be called by many names.  I think we are arguing the same side. 

Let's go have some pasta and feel the warmth of his love!

[BADecker]

There's no reason to keep on answering the yammering of the ignorant. Only the ignorant keep on trying.

I'll be the first to admit I'm ignorant of the christian religion.  I was brainwashed when I was young but that was 30 years ago.  I don't know how much the christian faith has changed since then to keep pace with scientific advances.

One religion has changed - the other has been chosen.   

Christianity has not changed. It will not change, because God will maintain the copies of the Bible texts forever... until He destroys this universe, replacing it for the next. The thing that is constantly changing is the hearts and faith of people.

[BADecker]

Now you are starting to see a little more clearly. Each individual has his or her idea about God... because God has implanted a little of Himself in all of us. Nobody sees God 100% clearly.

I agree with you 100%!  The FSM said he would be called by many names.  I think we are arguing the same side. 

Let's go have some pasta and feel the warmth of his love!

I'm really not a pasta guy. I got some thin spaghetti about 3 years ago, and it sat in the cupboard for 2 years before I finally tossed it.

Thanks, anyway.

[Vod]

Christianity has not changed. It will not change, because God will maintain the copies of the Bible texts forever... until He destroys this universe, replacing it for the next. The thing that is constantly changing is the hearts and faith of people.

LOL - did you miss the big announcement from your pope a few weeks ago?  All religions change - only the FSM remains unchanged.  (Note:  adding sauces to his noodleness doesn't change who he is at his core!)

[Vod]

I'm really not a pasta guy. I got some thin spaghetti about 3 years ago, and it sat in the cupboard for 2 years before I finally tossed it.

That would certainly explain your delusions!  The FSM says you must eat him to see the truth.  That's why all cultures in all areas of the world eat of his body.

[BADecker]

Christianity has not changed. It will not change, because God will maintain the copies of the Bible texts forever... until He destroys this universe, replacing it for the next. The thing that is constantly changing is the hearts and faith of people.

LOL - did you miss the big announcement from your pope a few weeks ago.  All religions change - only the FSM remains unchanged.  (Note:  adding sauces to his noodleness doesn't change who he is at his core!)

It's the Popes that change, not God. 

[Vod]

Christianity has not changed. It will not change, because God will maintain the copies of the Bible texts forever... until He destroys this universe, replacing it for the next. The thing that is constantly changing is the hearts and faith of people.

LOL - did you miss the big announcement from your pope a few weeks ago.  All religions change - only the FSM remains unchanged.  (Note:  adding sauces to his noodleness doesn't change who he is at his core!)

It's the Popes that change, not God. 

I just posted that.  FSM never changes - only the religions to worship him change.

[BADecker]

I'm really not a pasta guy. I got some thin spaghetti about 3 years ago, and it sat in the cupboard for 2 years before I finally tossed it.

That would certainly explain your delusions!  The FSM says you must eat him to see the truth.  That's why all cultures in all areas of the world eat of his body.

... Well, you have started towards God, anyway. Let's hope you find Him a bit more clearly.

[Vod]

... Well, you have started towards God, anyway. Let's hope you find Him a bit more clearly.

I can only find so much of him at a time.  Especially at the Olive Garden, where they dish out unlimited God.

[BADecker]

... Well, you have started towards God, anyway. Let's hope you find Him a bit more clearly.

I can only find so much of him at a time.  Especially at the Olive Garden, where they dish out unlimited God.

Try a double portion. You just might be able to update your avatar.   

[Vod]

... Well, you have started towards God, anyway. Let's hope you find Him a bit more clearly.

I can only find so much of him at a time.  Especially at the Olive Garden, where they dish out unlimited God.

Try a double portion. You just might be able to update your avatar.   

I have faith that the FSM will keep me in good shape.  You don't get punished for worshipping God. 

[BADecker]

... Well, you have started towards God, anyway. Let's hope you find Him a bit more clearly.

I can only find so much of him at a time.  Especially at the Olive Garden, where they dish out unlimited God.

Try a double portion. You just might be able to update your avatar.  

I have faith that the FSM will keep me in good shape.  You don't get punished for worshipping God.  

The bad part isn't in any potential punishment, except if you call missing out on the joys of being with God punishment.

Actually, it is difficult to say it properly. It amounts to something like this: The joys of being with God forever so outweigh the punishments for not being with Him, that just for the joy do I want to be with Him, rather than to avoid the punishment.

[Vod]

The bad part isn't in any potential punishment, except if you call missing out on the joys of being with God punishment.

Actually, it is difficult to say. It amounts to something like this: The joys of being with God forever so outweigh the punishments for not being with Him, that just for the joy do I want to be with Him, rather than to avoid the punishment.

The FSM/God doesn't punish people for not worshipping him.  If someone told you that, they probably hadn't eaten his body in a while and were confused. 

BTW - We don't know if God is a him or a her.  The scripture doesn't say.  

[BADecker]

The bad part isn't in any potential punishment, except if you call missing out on the joys of being with God punishment.

Actually, it is difficult to say. It amounts to something like this: The joys of being with God forever so outweigh the punishments for not being with Him, that just for the joy do I want to be with Him, rather than to avoid the punishment.

The FSM/God doesn't punish people for not worshipping him.  If someone told you that, they probably hadn't eaten his body in a while and were confused.  

BTW - We don't know if God is a him or a her.  The scripture doesn't say.  

Indigestion?

Scripture says Spirit and Father.

[the joint]

...thereby further implying that changing the method by which you interpret the Universe, knowledge will be more readily available to us.

Accordingly, you better get another cup of coffee to get focused enough to keep up with me here

The science that uses the "if"s, when promoted as truth, shows that the promoter is either ignorant, or a propagandist. Play with the meanings of words if you want. But stay focused on the point.

I got a glass of milk this time. But I'll probably go back to coffee when the milk is gone.

Science as a method doesn't use ifs.  Ever.  We always know exactly what to do next.

Again, you are talking about science in the context of being a body of knowledge, i.e. the conclusions, and even then you're really stretching it.  There's something called a margin-of-error in science, and it's always utilized.  And for that very reason, we never say "prove" in science, and even if we do, there's an unspoken "within such-and-such margin-of-error" footnote attached to it.  Specifically, the reason we can never say "prove" is because we would need to evidence all cases prior to our observations and also all cases that ever could arise in the future.

The problem is that religions are faith-based systems.  I'm not necessarily saying faith is the problem, but in this debate, it's a huge problem for you and your argument.  You're dissing science because you're essentially complaining that one can always formulate more questions after a scientific conclusion, even with something as seemingly concrete as a scientific law (e.g. "Is it possible that Universal laws can change over time?").  But, in contrast, you defer to and advocate for a religious view (by the way, you invoke a false dichotomy, here -- a fallacy in its own right) by basically claiming that it gives you all the answers so that you don't need to ask any more questions.

And so, getting to the root of your problem, you completely gloss over the relationship between faith and reason, where one uses evidence to justify faithfulness.  Accordingly, even with faith, you depend on reason and evidence, and by undermining an inductive process like the scientific method, you are undermining your own inductive reasoning that leads you to live with a religious world view.

Here, I'll defer to the Bible, and remind you that Jesus advised to have faith "the size of a mustard seed."  And, as you know, while capable of growing, mustard seeds are very, very small.

The so-called "margin-of-error" in Evolution is so gigantic that the only people who could ever believe in Evolution are those who are to simple to understand, those who haven't investigated but simply believe, and those who are compulsively hopeful. The last group have very strong faith in their religion. If they had the same kind of faith in Christianity, they would be some of the top missionaries in the world.

Looking at the science that has the "if"s as a religion, is the only way that it can be viewed when people believe it to be true.

As far as what Jesus advised, you are ignorant or you are twisting it intentionally. Jesus was simply suggesting that if you have even this small amount or faith, nothing will be impossible for you. Problem is, that it won't work for faith-science believers, even though their faith is extremely strong. Why not? Because God's faith is way stronger.

 

You didn't read or comprehend anything I said until I mentioned Jesus, did you?

You use inductive reasoning every day of your waking life.  If you didn't you wouldn't be able to survive.  Science utilizes inductive reasoning.  Do you know what else requires inductive reasoning?  Here's a list:  

Cooking a meal; constructing a house; putting on clothes; wiping your ass; having manners and learning to be sociable, reading a map; reading a book; understanding a movie; etc.

Basically, inductive reasoning is the reason why every life-enhancing technology exists, why people adapt to social and other environmental conditions, and heck, it even made the paper and the ink that your Bible is made of.

And you want people to convert away from that?  All of that is a product of science (you keep calling it science; its a product of science in this context).

TL;DR: You already do what science does all the time.  You're taking a hypocritical position.

Why do you keep talking away from the "if"s science? The "if"s are the only thing I am talking about. Where do you find the "if"s in science? In the papers that talk about Evolution and old-age universe. Most of the things that you are speaking about, above, are things that science sees clearly, and I would agree with, if it didn't entangle me in some of the "if"s.

Why do you ask "Why...the 'ifs'...?"   I literally just explained it.

Here:

You're dissing science because you're essentially complaining that one can always formulate more questions after a scientific conclusion, even with something as seemingly concrete as a scientific law (e.g. "Is it possible that Universal laws can change over time?").  But, in contrast, you defer to and advocate for a religious view (by the way, you invoke a false dichotomy, here -- a fallacy in its own right) by basically claiming that it gives you all the answers so that you don't need to ask any more questions.

And so, getting to the root of your problem, you completely gloss over the relationship between faith and reason, where one uses evidence to justify faithfulness.  Accordingly, even with faith, you depend on reason and evidence, and by undermining an inductive process like the scientific method, you are undermining your own inductive reasoning that leads you to live with a religious world view.

[Vod]

Scripture says Spirit and Father.

No it doesn't.  Your lack of pasta is making you delusional my friend.

But feel free to show me with a link where it says the FSM is male:   http://www.venganza.org/

Earthworms mirror the appearance of the FSM and are BOTH male and female.

[bl4kjaguar]

I am trying to say that hierarchies are a fabrication of man and they do not exist in the higher realms. I am not sure how you deduce many-gods from that.
Anyway, I question the "teachings" of Pharisee Paul; Christ made gave us many warnings about Pharisees.

BADecker,

Man was created infinite and unlimited. I am not here to pull you, my brother, down.

We are all one infinite whole. The Mission is great and our disagreement on the subject of hierarchies is of no consequence. I do not harden my heart against your words.

We should not waste time on our ever-present critics and attackers. Let us not enter into doctrinal quarrels, least of all with one-another. You and I should never be without something to do of great purpose.

 

[BADecker]

Why do you ask "Why...the 'ifs'?"   I literally just explained it.

Here:

You're dissing science because you're essentially complaining that one can always formulate more questions after a scientific conclusion, even with something as seemingly concrete as a scientific law (e.g. "Is it possible that Universal laws can change over time?").  But, in contrast, you defer to and advocate for a religious view (by the way, you invoke a false dichotomy, here -- a fallacy in its own right) by basically claiming that it gives you all the answers so that you don't need to ask any more questions.

And so, getting to the root of your problem, you completely gloss over the relationship between faith and reason, where one uses evidence to justify faithfulness.  Accordingly, even with faith, you depend on reason and evidence, and by undermining an inductive process like the scientific method, you are undermining your own inductive reasoning that leads you to live with a religious world view.

Not "dissing" science at all. Simply against the stating as truth and reality certain scientific findings that are theory or less than theory. That's it in a nutshell. Included in the nutshell are the things that say Evolution is real, and the universe is billions of years old, because they include the "if"s at their base or core. If means maybe and maybe not. State it clearly and truthfully, right out in the open, rather than turning it into a religion.