Scientific proof that God exists?

[BADecker]

Prove it.. Show us this picture you speak of, since you seem to have a grasp of a truth you cant prove..

The word "picture" was used in allegory fashion. Read the post above your above post to get a "picture" in your mind of the fact that God exists.

Of course, you are only playing with words. Probably jealous that you didn't figure this out on your own.

[1714644258]

1714644258

[XinXan]

And that is absolulty no proof of god, you proved that humans use ''machines'' and that ''machines'' that already existed are far more complex than the ones we make. You saying that nothing is random and everything has been made by someone, well where does God come from then?

[BADecker]

And that is absolulty no proof of god, you proved that humans use ''machines'' and that ''machines'' that already existed are far more complex than the ones we make. You saying that nothing is random and everything has been made by someone, well where does God come from then?

Did you miss the part in life that humans don't only use machines, but that they make them as well? If people didn't make cars, and boats, and cellphones, televisions, and rocketships, like we do, these things probably wouldn't be in existence like they are. Machines have makers. Whoever made the machines of nature that are greater than the machines that mankind makes, must be a greater machine maker than mankind. Since the greatness of the machines of nature is far greater than the greatness of the machines of mankind, the Maker of the machines of nature fits one or more of the definitions of the word/term "God."

God always existed. People don't have the ability to understand the true nature of someone/something like God. How can anyone understand the One Who made cause and effect go from a Big Bang 13 or 14 billion years ago, to something like the complexity we see in nature around us? God is beyond understanding.

At least Bible people, who accept that the universe was set up as it is, by God, starting 6,000 years ago (like the Bible says), might be a little closer to understanding God. Why? Because the cause and effect process doesn't have to be as great for only 6,000 years - just like the pool shark has to only do a succession of 6 balls rather than 12 million balls (or whatever it would be for Big Bang times).

But don't feel bad. Even the jury people in a court trial don't understand the evidence in the same way. But they might if there was such a preponderance of evidence like there is for the existence of God.

It's all in the definitions of "proof" and "God." But people are so stubborn that, as I have said before, they can keep themselves from believing the evidence even if it jumps up and bites them in the left eye.

[XinXan]

And that is absolulty no proof of god, you proved that humans use ''machines'' and that ''machines'' that already existed are far more complex than the ones we make. You saying that nothing is random and everything has been made by someone, well where does God come from then?

Did you miss the part in life that humans don't only use machines, but that they make them as well? If people didn't make cars, and boats, and cellphones, televisions, and rocketships, like we do, these things probably wouldn't be in existence like they are. Machines have makers. Whoever made the machines of nature that are greater than the machines that mankind makes, must be a greater machine maker than mankind. Since the greatness of the machines of nature is far greater than the greatness of the machines of mankind, the Maker of the machines of nature fits one or more of the definitions of the word/term "God."

God always existed. People don't have the ability to understand the true nature of someone/something like God. How can anyone understand the One Who made cause and effect go from a Big Bang 13 or 14 billion years ago, to something like the complexity we see in nature around us? God is beyond understanding.

At least Bible people, who accept that the universe was set up as it is, by God, starting 6,000 years ago (like the Bible says), might be a little closer to understanding God. Why? Because the cause and effect process doesn't have to be as great for only 6,000 years - just like the pool shark has to only do a succession of 6 balls rather than 12 million balls (or whatever it would be for Big Bang times).

But don't feel bad. Even the jury people in a court trial don't understand the evidence in the same way. But they might if there was such a preponderance of evidence like there is for the existence of God.

It's all in the definitions of "proof" and "God." But people are so stubborn that, as I have said before, they can keep themselves from believing the evidence even if it jumps up and bites them in the left eye.

The bible people are stupid, they believe the earth is 6000 years old because their book says so when there are thousands of proofs that state the earth is much older.

I dont know if you are talking about a God as: A superior Being or God as God in the bible, wich one?

[Lauda]

This thread is becoming a nuisance even for the off-topic section. The problem with religious people is that they won't give in even though they can't win the discussion whilst presenting a valid argument.
If you want to believe in fairy tales, fine, just don't annoy the rest of us.

[Buffer Overflow]

At least Bible people, who accept that the universe was set up as it is, by God, starting 6,000 years ago (like the Bible says), might be a little closer to understanding God.

Pssst.. I've heard a rumour that the earth is flat, but keep it to yourself.

[BADecker]

The bible people are stupid, they believe the earth is 6000 years old because their book says so when there are thousands of proofs that state the earth is much older.

I dont know if you are talking about a God as: A superior Being or God as God in the bible, wich one?

This thread is becoming a nuisance even for the off-topic section. The problem with religious people is that they won't give in even though they can't win the discussion whilst presenting a valid argument.
If you want to believe in fairy tales, fine, just don't annoy the rest of us.

Here is an example of a couple of commenters who are using science to refute the truth that God exists ^^. The are using the only science that possibly has a chance to scientifically refute the existence of God. Which science are they using? They are using political science.

Part of political science is seeing how much you can out talk your opponent who logically uses other forms of good science. The particular kind of political science they are using is called "bash 'em and trash 'em."

The "bash 'em and trash 'em" method works by using the "bash 'em" part first. This part is where you attempt to talk around the good science that your opponent uses. You attempt to bring up things that are not really part of what the good science talks about, rather than find holes in the good science itself. Then you attempt to badmouth the person of your opponent, attempting to make HIM look bad, with the idea that you can place his good science in a bad light by detracting from his character.

The "trash 'em" part picks up where the "bash 'em" part leaves off. Now that you have distracted from the good science, and made the opponent look bad on top of it, your next goal is to more or less sweep the good science along with its proponent under the rug... sort of move him and his good science out of sight.

Using political science is a good plan. It seems to bring success out of the ashes of failure and defeat. The interesting thing about political science is, it is the only science that employs downright lies and deceit inside of its scientific methodology. All the rest of the sciences are about finding the truth.

One of the main reasons that this type of political science is used is, it is easy. Non-scientific types of people (but scientists as well) can easily use political science to bash and trash anyone. Why? Because knowing the language, and being able to use it, are often easy, compared with learning the other sciences. After all, people learn the language at a very young age simply by listening to their parents. And when they use the political science of "lying" rather well, it is often because they were trained into it by parents and other family members. This shows that their whole family line was/is a bunch of liars.

The sad thing about it for people who use political science in this way is, nothing that they say can change the facts. Sooner or later the facts prove themselves out. Often it is to the hurt of the people who would lie about the facts by trying to hide the truth. In this case, there will come a time when XinXan and LaudaM (along with any of the folks who act and talk like they do) will stand before God in the judgment. If they haven't changed their ways prior to that, they will be damned to Hell. I hate to see something like that happening. But, oh well, they asked for it.

On top of it, when these political science users actually believe their lies, what they are doing is forming or practicing a religion. They are attempting to believe something that doesn't have much of any real backing to it. And they do it as a process, making it a religion just like any other religion.

Okay, kids. You have done your bashing and trashing. Let's see some logic that disproves the proof that God exists. Do you have anything more than slander, lies, deceit and attempts to hide the truth?

[Lauda]

-snip-
One of the main reasons that this type of political science is used is, it is easy. Non-scientific types of people (but scientists as well) can easily use political science to bash and trash anyone. Why? Because knowing the language, and being able to use it, are often easy, compared with learning the other sciences. After all, people learn the language at a very young age simply by listening to their parents. And when they use the political science of "lying" rather well, it is often because they were trained into it by parents and other family members. This shows that their whole family line was/is a bunch of liars.

The sad thing about it for people who use political science in this way is, nothing that they say can change the facts. Sooner or later the facts prove themselves out. Often it is to the hurt of the people who would lie about the facts by trying to hide the truth. In this case, there will come a time when XinXan and LaudaM (along with any of the folks who act and talk like they do) will stand before God in the judgment. If they haven't changed their ways prior to that, they will be damned to Hell. I hate to see something like that happening. But, oh well, they asked for it.

On top of it, when these political science users actually believe their lies, what they are doing is forming or practicing a religion. They are attempting to believe something that doesn't have much of any real backing to it. And they do it as a process, making it a religion just like any other religion.

Okay, kids. You have done your bashing and trashing. Let's see some logic that disproves the proof that God exists. Do you have anything more than slander, lies, deceit and attempts to hide the truth?

This whole post is bullshit. Yes I must have been using this political science gibberish (which I didn't even know it existed) to get you.
So thinking for myself will bring me to Hell? I'd rather not hang around with that "god" of yours.

I've never really said that God didn't exist, I'm just saying that the ones that people believe in don't.

[Astargath]

-snip-
One of the main reasons that this type of political science is used is, it is easy. Non-scientific types of people (but scientists as well) can easily use political science to bash and trash anyone. Why? Because knowing the language, and being able to use it, are often easy, compared with learning the other sciences. After all, people learn the language at a very young age simply by listening to their parents. And when they use the political science of "lying" rather well, it is often because they were trained into it by parents and other family members. This shows that their whole family line was/is a bunch of liars.

The sad thing about it for people who use political science in this way is, nothing that they say can change the facts. Sooner or later the facts prove themselves out. Often it is to the hurt of the people who would lie about the facts by trying to hide the truth. In this case, there will come a time when XinXan and LaudaM (along with any of the folks who act and talk like they do) will stand before God in the judgment. If they haven't changed their ways prior to that, they will be damned to Hell. I hate to see something like that happening. But, oh well, they asked for it.

On top of it, when these political science users actually believe their lies, what they are doing is forming or practicing a religion. They are attempting to believe something that doesn't have much of any real backing to it. And they do it as a process, making it a religion just like any other religion.

Okay, kids. You have done your bashing and trashing. Let's see some logic that disproves the proof that God exists. Do you have anything more than slander, lies, deceit and attempts to hide the truth?

This whole post is bullshit. Yes I must have been using this political science gibberish (which I didn't even know it existed) to get you.
So thinking for myself will bring me to Hell? I'd rather not hang around with that "god" of yours.

I've never really said that God didn't exist, I'm just saying that the ones that people believe in don't.

All of his posts are bullshit he posts a lot of stuff but nothing that he posts is proof of anything, he often uses terms like: that points that god exists or there must be a god or how would that exist if there was no god, just because we dont know or we cant explain why or how doesnt mean its made by god for fuck sake

[Decksperiment]

BADecker: The problem with your argument's for/against whatever, is that you alienate folks from whatever it is you think you are trying to do here by preaching your book instead of providing proof from it.. people from your own faith have spoken less and done more, you have done most, and lost most.. your continued mis-use of your gods book is just crap mate, you use it to attack and spread fear, only we know this, you are blind to it.. you are a scaremonger, and a cruel twat.. your own tribesmen are tellin you off, and you still cant get the hint.. you do yours more damage than good.

[Buffer Overflow]

The sad thing about it for people who use political science in this way is, nothing that they say can change the facts. Sooner or later the facts prove themselves out. Often it is to the hurt of the people who would lie about the facts by trying to hide the truth. In this case, there will come a time when XinXan and LaudaM (along with any of the folks who act and talk like they do) will stand before God in the judgment. If they haven't changed their ways prior to that, they will be damned to Hell. I hate to see something like that happening. But, oh well, they asked for it.

Just because you got suckered in by this man-made scare tactic you wrongly assume others will succumb just as easily. Years ago this would of been a very successful method. Unfortunately (for you) the world has wised up to these underhanded methods.
Think about it. Why would someone start believing in a god to protect themselves from the wrath of the god when they never believed in the wrath in the first place!!!! The icing on the cake would be they then have to live in permanent fear of upsetting the god, a fear they never had beforehand, so they are worse off.

[Astargath]

The sad thing about it for people who use political science in this way is, nothing that they say can change the facts. Sooner or later the facts prove themselves out. Often it is to the hurt of the people who would lie about the facts by trying to hide the truth. In this case, there will come a time when XinXan and LaudaM (along with any of the folks who act and talk like they do) will stand before God in the judgment. If they haven't changed their ways prior to that, they will be damned to Hell. I hate to see something like that happening. But, oh well, they asked for it.

Just because you got suckered in by this man-made scare tactic you wrongly assume others will succumb just as easily. Years ago this would of been a very successful method. Unfortunately (for you) the world has wised up to these under handed methods.
Think about it. Why would someone start believing in a god to protect themselves from the wrath of the god when they never believed in the wrath in the first place!!!! The icing on the cake would be they then have to live in permanent fear of upsetting the god, a fear they never had beforehand, so they are worse off.

There is a short story about something like that.
Eskimo: 'If I did not know about God and sin, would I go to hell?' Priest: 'No, not if you did not know.' Eskimo: 'Then why did you tell me?'

[Lauda]

There is a short story about something like that.
Eskimo: 'If I did not know about God and sin, would I go to hell?' Priest: 'No, not if you did not know.' Eskimo: 'Then why did you tell me?'

Because the majority of people need something to hope for to survive though the rough times of life, otherwise we would probably have insane suicide rates.
Options that people go for usually: religion, alcohol, drugs, smoking, meditation, etc.
Praying to something that may or may not be, for your whole life, is illogical.

[(oYo)]

There is a short story about something like that.
Eskimo: 'If I did not know about God and sin, would I go to hell?' Priest: 'No, not if you did not know.' Eskimo: 'Then why did you tell me?'

Because the majority of people need something to hope for to survive though the rough times of life, otherwise we would probably have insane suicide rates.
Options that people go for usually: religion, alcohol, drugs, smoking, meditation, etc.
Praying to something that may or may not be, for your whole life, is illogical.

All valid points. As you stated, religion is by far the most effective tool in helping people cope with their struggles (oppression), but perhaps an even more important reason, for which the TPTB love religion, is that it also discourages people from killing their oppressors.

[BADecker]

I love it. I'm finally getting through to you kids. Even Decky, who already believes that God exists, has been touch by a bunch of my points that he can't answer.

Keep struggling, you guys (and gal(s)). You just might wake up to the fact that God loves you and has made you, because it is wonderful to be alive, so you can experience the greatness of it.

Just a little further, now. Some of you are actually on the verge of making it. Your irritation proves it, because you don't have any answers that are on-point oriented.

       (I just have to smile in joy that you guys are finally coming around.)

[Buffer Overflow]

I'd just like to say as well, don't make the mistake of tarring every religious person with the same brush as BADecker. His conduct on this thread has done religion a huge disservice.

I've met a few interesting open-minded ones in my time,  and had some interesting conversations. And I'm sure we both walked away better off from it.

Unfortunately a few bad apples (BADecker) spoils it for the good ones, tarnishing their name.

[the joint]

There is a short story about something like that.
Eskimo: 'If I did not know about God and sin, would I go to hell?' Priest: 'No, not if you did not know.' Eskimo: 'Then why did you tell me?'

Because the majority of people need something to hope for to survive though the rough times of life, otherwise we would probably have insane suicide rates.
Options that people go for usually: religion, alcohol, drugs, smoking, meditation, etc.
Praying to something that may or may not be, for your whole life, is illogical.

Meditation differs from the other four in that it is liberating rather than constraining.  I speak from both experience and research.  It's almost like an anti-addiction as it decreases your dependence on outside factors for mood regulation.

[BADecker]

In my post at https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=737322.msg10718395#msg10718395, all I do is talk about science. I don't mention religion at all. Yet, all your responses following that post up to this one, talk about religion. Is science such a religion to all of you, that if someone comes along with science that doesn't limit itself to the way you religiously look at science, then he is really talking religion rather than science?

The point is becoming clearer. You simply aren't interested in the truth. All along I thought you people were scientifically minded people. Now it turns out that you are religiously minded people, and you have your own, little brand of science that is your religion.

How interesting you are. You are not interested in the truth. You are not interested in real science. All you are interested in is your brand of thinking that looks like science, but really isn't. You kids really have a weird religion.



EDIT: The post by the joint, directly above this post, isn't included in my little rant in this post.

[the joint]

I love it. I'm finally getting through to you kids. Even Decky, who already believes that God exists, has been touch by a bunch of my points that he can't answer.

Keep struggling, you guys (and gal(s)). You just might wake up to the fact that God loves you and has made you, because it is wonderful to be alive, so you can experience the greatness of it.

Just a little further, now. Some of you are actually on the verge of making it. Your irritation proves it, because you don't have any answers that are on-point oriented.

       (I just have to smile in joy that you guys are finally coming around.)

No, your reasons for believing what you do are terrible, just as they have always been.  People are getting irritated and aren't responding "on-point" because, well...how else do you tell someone that something doesn't make sense except to tell them it doesn't make sense?

Your arguments make no sense.  It's glaringly obvious, like a horrific car crash.  You might believing in something which is true (i.e. God exists), but you would serve yourself much better by listening to others critique your reasoning.   Your reasoning deserves to be critiqued because it's simply terrible.   When you type, its almost as if you don't think the rules of logic apply to you and you can bend them to your will.

In my experience, atheists generally have poor reasons for not believing in God, and Christians generally have even worse reasons for actually believing in Him.

You would do well to listen to the atheists here when they point out the flaws in your reasoning.  Those flaws do exist, and you should focus more on that than on the faulty reasoning of others.  From what I can tell, every atheist in this thread has a far better understanding of both logic and the Scientific Method than you do.  By a mile.

[MichaelSicili]

my father is godfather! just calm down.