[SDC] ShadowCash | Welcome to the UMBRA

[Pline]

What is the deal with shadow to shadow transfers?  Are they linkable on the blockchain?  I think possibly one of the main benefits of the Shadow scheme for anonymity is not just the crypto stuff(although that's the foundation), but the fact that you don't have to change shadow back to SDC at any particular time.  Is this what makes it different from Monero?  Kind of seems like the blockchain and the SDC act kind of like an anchor for the shadow (SDT) to exist and be able to be spent and transferred. Any insight? I'm still trying to fully understand.  

Shadow to Shadow transfers are just like Monero. They are not linkable or traceable. What makes this different from Monero is that it has both types of coins on the same chain.

SDC (and therefore transfers between Shadow and SDC) serves two purposes as far as I can tell:

1. It existed first, so it continues to be supported for backward compatibility

2. Transactions are smaller and faster, so there is an efficiency gain when anonymity isn't needed

Thanks that makes sense.  But I still wonder if having both the SDC/SDT existing has any additional purposes to those you listed.  It kind of seems like having both may increase the anonymity in some ways along with other possible benefits, but I am still trying to think it through more thoroughly.  But hopefully someone else can comment if this is so or not.

[1715133013]

1715133013

[dadon]

BTW, Monero never claimed to be anything new (though new things have been since added), it was launched as a direct of clone bytecoin (cryptonote) to get rid of the 82% premine. The rest of the technology was (and is) just fine.

You can talk about technology without talking about XMR why not talk about bytecoin same difference

1. Why would one talk about a scam with an 82% premine that is now largely abandoned. It matters for historical purposes only.

2. I'm less familiar with what the Bytecoin project is doing these days, if anything at all.

3. By all accounts (even the scammers, who I tend not to believe anyway) the true innovators here were "cryptonote", who invented the cryptographic scheme.

4. People seem to be asking about the similarities and differences between SDC and Monero. No one is asking about Bytecoin (see #1 above).

well since XMR is a copy and paste of bytecoin it's pretty relevant the only real difference is the the lack of premine, SDC is scaled down and not cloned may use tech that is similar to cryptonote but it's not.

[dadon]

I don't see Bytecoin like a scam but a test

Well, you have know the history of how it was claimed to be launched two years earlier, which was simply a lie, and many of the premined coins were being dumped on unsuspecting buyers. That makes a fraud and a scam.

But ultimately you are right, it was essentially the testnet for Monero, and that's how any project run by non-scammers would have done it.

XMR and bytecoin devs had nothing to do with each other bytecoin was good tech launched stupidly and all the rest including XMR copied,SDC did not they built it better and faster with a more mainstream wallet without copying there is the difference. the tech in SDC is better then anything in the crypto world to date and the wallet is more mainstream then any Bitcoin wallet i have seen, it's a clear winner.

[smooth]

Dude, I'm not sure why you are obsessed with Monero and Bytecoin. That ship sailed a long time ago. But the point is that the true credit for the cryptography used by all of these coins lies with the developers of the cryptonote design, whoever they are.

Monero has rewritten significant parts of the Bytecoin code from scratch by now, and extensively refactored other parts, and will likely do far more of this. Monero does not, however, claim to be the inventor of the cryptonote design, or the original writer of the code. We always credit cryptonote for their work. Credit where credit is due.

[dadon]

Dude, I'm not sure why you are obsessed with Monero and Bytecoin. That ship sailed a long time ago. But the point is that the true credit for the cryptography used by all of these coins lies with the developers of the cryptonote design, whoever they are.

Monero has rewritten significant parts of the Bytecoin code from scratch by now, and extensively refactored other parts, and will likely do far more of this. Monero does not, however, claim to be the inventor of the cryptonote design, or the original writer of the code. We always credit cryptonote for their work. Credit where credit is due.

Bytecoin devs developed cryptonote bro that's why it's relevant? as i said i was invested in all the annoncoins from the start because that's were the money will soon be at, i have profited off all of them, so im not obsessed it's just a fact that bytecoin devs developed the tech XMR copied.And this is the SDC thread i dumped my XMC for XC like 6 months ago you were the one who brought XMR up, not me, I'm just telling you it's a clone unlike SDC.

[smooth]

Dude, I'm not sure why you are obsessed with Monero and Bytecoin. That ship sailed a long time ago. But the point is that the true credit for the cryptography used by all of these coins lies with the developers of the cryptonote design, whoever they are.

Monero has rewritten significant parts of the Bytecoin code from scratch by now, and extensively refactored other parts, and will likely do far more of this. Monero does not, however, claim to be the inventor of the cryptonote design, or the original writer of the code. We always credit cryptonote for their work. Credit where credit is due.

Bytecoin devs developed cryptonote bro that's why it's relevant?

According to them, they didn't. The cryptonote team developed the cryptography and design and the bytecoin team did the reference implementation for them. The bytecoin team then wanted to focus on the actual currency so the group split. Perhaps the original designers weren't real interested in running an 82% premine pump-and-dump scam? Who knows. I have no idea how much of that is true, but I know for certain that we don't actually know who developed or invented any of it. The are all fake names and and largely fake stories behind them.

it's a clone unlike SDC.

What?  SDC is a clone of bitcoin, unless I'm mistaken. That's the normal and intelligent way to develop open source cryptocurrencies (or open source anything for that matter). Rarely does it make sense to write the whole damn thing from scratch. Even your darling bytecoin for example, includes big pieces of existing cryptography libraries. All par for the course.

[Pline]

So would Shadow Tokens (SDT) be considered a sidechain on top of SDC?  Or no?

[smooth]

So would Shadow Tokens (SDT) be considered a sidechain on top of SDC?  Or no?

No, they are on the same chain. Sidechains are something different.

[dadon]

Dude, I'm not sure why you are obsessed with Monero and Bytecoin. That ship sailed a long time ago. But the point is that the true credit for the cryptography used by all of these coins lies with the developers of the cryptonote design, whoever they are.

Monero has rewritten significant parts of the Bytecoin code from scratch by now, and extensively refactored other parts, and will likely do far more of this. Monero does not, however, claim to be the inventor of the cryptonote design, or the original writer of the code. We always credit cryptonote for their work. Credit where credit is due.

Bytecoin devs developed cryptonote bro that's why it's relevant?

According to them, they didn't. The cryptonote team developed the cryptography and design and the bytecoin team did the reference implementation for them. The bytecoin team then wanted to focus on the actual currency so the group split. Perhaps the original designers weren't real interested in running an 82% premine pump-and-dump scam. I have no idea how much of that is true, but I know for certain that we don't actually know who developed or invented any of it.

it's a clone unlike SDC.

What?  SDC is a clone of bitcoin, unless I'm mistaken.

The difference is XMR is a direct clone of Bytecoin the only difference the premine and the devs, I see a few differences between SDC and BTC hahaha ridicules comparison, but all the best for XMR hope it does well no reason why it can't, best of luck to you also, hope you get rich no matter your investment  SDC or XMR, Merry christmas.

[ffmad]

Dude, I'm not sure why you are obsessed with Monero and Bytecoin. That ship sailed a long time ago. But the point is that the true credit for the cryptography used by all of these coins lies with the developers of the cryptonote design, whoever they are.

Monero has rewritten significant parts of the Bytecoin code from scratch by now, and extensively refactored other parts, and will likely do far more of this. Monero does not, however, claim to be the inventor of the cryptonote design, or the original writer of the code. We always credit cryptonote for their work. Credit where credit is due.

Bytecoin devs developed cryptonote bro that's why it's relevant?

According to them, they didn't. The cryptonote team developed the cryptography and design and the bytecoin team did the reference implementation for them. The bytecoin team then wanted to focus on the actual currency so the group split. Perhaps the original designers weren't real interested in running an 82% premine pump-and-dump scam. I have no idea how much of that is true, but I know for certain that we don't actually know who developed or invented any of it.

it's a clone unlike SDC.

What?  SDC is a clone of bitcoin, unless I'm mistaken.

The difference is XMR is a direct clone of Bytecoin the only difference the premine and the devs, I see a few differences between SDC and BTC hahaha ridicules comparison.

SDC is a fork of BTC

XMR is a fork of BCN

None of this coins are clone, there is a lot of developments added to the original code

[smooth]

The difference is XMR is a direct clone of Bytecoin the only difference the premine and the devs, I see a few differences between SDC and BTC hahaha ridicules comparison.

That's totally false now. The code has diverged a lot. It was true at the very start of the Monero project. Just as there was a day when the original SDC was just identical to Bitcoin (or Peercoin or whatever it directly forked from).

I still don't get why you think that matters. Maybe if you just feel like you want to trash talk Monero for whatever reason, you should come over to the Monero thread and do it, instead of derailing the conversation here about cryptonote-based cryptography in SDC?

[dadon]

Dude, I'm not sure why you are obsessed with Monero and Bytecoin. That ship sailed a long time ago. But the point is that the true credit for the cryptography used by all of these coins lies with the developers of the cryptonote design, whoever they are.

Monero has rewritten significant parts of the Bytecoin code from scratch by now, and extensively refactored other parts, and will likely do far more of this. Monero does not, however, claim to be the inventor of the cryptonote design, or the original writer of the code. We always credit cryptonote for their work. Credit where credit is due.

Bytecoin devs developed cryptonote bro that's why it's relevant?

According to them, they didn't. The cryptonote team developed the cryptography and design and the bytecoin team did the reference implementation for them. The bytecoin team then wanted to focus on the actual currency so the group split. Perhaps the original designers weren't real interested in running an 82% premine pump-and-dump scam. I have no idea how much of that is true, but I know for certain that we don't actually know who developed or invented any of it.

it's a clone unlike SDC.

What?  SDC is a clone of bitcoin, unless I'm mistaken.

The difference is XMR is a direct clone of Bytecoin the only difference the premine and the devs, I see a few differences between SDC and BTC hahaha ridicules comparison.

SDC is a fork of BTC

XMR is a fork of BCN

None of this coins are clone, there is a lot of developments added to the original code

BRO there is like no difference between Bytecoin and XMR BIG BIG BIG difference between BTC and SDC seriously WTF.

[skip60]

.......................................

Yes ShadowCash uses both, the Shadow token can only be used with stealth addresses (thus the untraceable and unlink-able transaction). And you are right, if Cryptonote first combined this logic into a crypto system then yes, give credit where credit is due.

I think it's important for everyone to see this is how vetting and improvements happen in the real world. You don't see any Bitcoin purists coming into this topic saying, "ShadowCash uses a blockchain? Satoshi invented that, you're just a clone of Bitcoin..." We all give credit to SN for figuring out the public ledger, solving double spend, etc. If CN first applied ring sigs & stealth addresses in it's system then we need to acknowledge that. That's what Shadow is doing too. Now, the SDC devs have innovated that idea with implementation of Shadow tokens, but the original working system (just like the blockchain system, we too are using) is another project's innovation.

This should also clarify to everyone why the XMR supporters are saying it's a clone of Cryptonote. See where they get that from? Since April 2014 they've been doing it. Bitcoin supporters would be saying the same thing if it wasn't a complete waste of time to write the sentence on the BITCOIN Talk forum.

i really like to read what you are writing, thanks again...keep on writing

it is objective ideas, not kiddish, not fuddish ideas like others has

smooth....my friend, you made your point...go and write at your own topic now...because you are not objective

[battbot]

Our scheme was never going to be perfect, and we have said on a few occasions that we will only be utilising a basic nizkp until zk-snarks is fully out and trustless.

The reason we opted for anonymous tokens, instead of direct anonymous outputs to ringsigs, is because we're building towards direction we're heading in. What we're striving for... Encrypted values, with perfect nizkps, proving all values of inputs are real, without revealing any information about where they come from.

We're looking at many things, like homomorphic encryption, snarks, etc...
http://eprint.iacr.org/2014/976
snarks are advancing, along with many other ideas... We are not for limiting ourselves, but for bettering our [collective] future

[Schild_]

Our scheme was never going to be perfect, and we have said on a few occasions that we will only be utilising a basic nizkp until zk-snarks is fully out and trustless.

The reason we opted for anonymous tokens, instead of direct anonymous outputs to ringsigs, is because we're building towards direction we're heading in. What we're striving for... Encrypted values, with perfect nizkps, proving all values of inputs are real, without revealing any information about where they come from.

We're looking at many things, like homomorphic encryption, snarks, etc...
http://eprint.iacr.org/2014/976
snarks are advancing, along with many other ideas... We are not for limiting ourselves, but for bettering our [collective] future

Nice point, Battbott.

It's not the same. Why would had our devs bother to spend thousands hours of coding if so...  the way you say this is a bit misleading IMHO.

]

I never said it was the same. I said the anonymity uses the same underlying approach as cryptonote so the resulting anonymity is the same (or worse, if minting/destroy is used too much, but that is up to the users I suppose). I acknowledged some minor differences, but I don't believe they are particularly significant in the area of anonymity.

As for why thousands of hours were spent on it, you would have to ask them. Presumably they thought that reimplementing it all was a good idea for whatever collection of reasons. I guess the market will decide.

There are also chances that you missed some things...

I like the fact that you are tech savvy, but I cannot help myself to think your method is starting to be a bit socially inappropriate in term of behavior. You've made your point several time, and it's normal that the community is defending the work (and the thread!). Now perhaps ask SDCdev directly your questions and/or come back later maybe?

I guess he's the best one to talk with, after all, the community is only the community and the dev is the dev .

If you still wanna discuss with the community otherwise maybe  #shadowcash  would be better?

[pookielax31]

To coins101 or whoever that Dark troll was in here pushing his agenda........dark send blows  Ive been sitting here waiting well over 2 hours waiting for 434 drk coins to go through 2 rounds of mixing. And it just keeps trying to "submitted to masternode, waiting in queue" and then goes idle. Been stuck at 0% for the whole 2 hours. So yea...darksend is pretty clunky and slow.. that is if it even can mix these coins which isnt even a big amount!! 

[oblox]

To coins101 or whoever that Dark troll was in here pushing his agenda........dark send blows  Ive been sitting here waiting well over 2 hours waiting for 434 drk coins to go through 2 rounds of mixing. And it just keeps trying to "submitted to masternode, waiting in queue" and then goes idle. Been stuck at 0% for the whole 2 hours. So yea...darksend is pretty clunky and slow.. that is if it even can mix these coins which isnt even a big amount!! 

https://darkcointalk.org/threads/cannot-use-darksend-mixing.3269/

[pookielax31]

LOL so the only way to anonymize your coins for dark is broken? WOW
edit: only reason why i bought these coins was to use darksend.... epic fail

[oblox]

LOL so the only way to anonymize your coins for dark is broken? WOW
edit: only reason why i bought these coins was to use darksend.... epic fail

Considering a lot of attention has been on rebuilding the coin on the new 0.9.3 bitcoin codebase and the fix has already been merged into it, I'd say it isn't the end of the world. Shouldn't be a shocker that things get broken at times (not saying it's fine or ideal, but it can, and does, happen). I'm actually surprised the fix itself hasn't been merged into master but at the same time I'm sure the reason is a full push to the new tree sooner rather than later (then instantx testing on testnet).

Since this is the SDC thread, I wish to respect that and end the discussion on another coin as is. You are more than welcome to continue this discussion in our thread if you like.

[pookielax31]

LOL so the only way to anonymize your coins for dark is broken? WOW
edit: only reason why i bought these coins was to use darksend.... epic fail

Considering a lot of attention has been on rebuilding the coin on the new 0.9.3 bitcoin codebase and the fix has already been merged into it, I'd say it isn't the end of the world. Shouldn't be a shocker that things get broken at times (not saying it's fine or ideal, but it can, and does, happen). I'm actually surprised the fix itself hasn't been merged into master but at the same time I'm sure the reason is a full push to the new tree sooner rather than later (then instantx testing on testnet).

Since this is the SDC thread, I wish to respect that and end the discussion on another coin as is. You are more than welcome to continue this discussion in our thread if you like.

Cool... thanks for the level headed answer and non trollish tone  I can see i might have sounded a bit trollish myself...maybe I will wait and see or maybe ill convert these drks to SDCs..time will tell